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View Full Version : PM 45 Back from Kahr Serivce- Still not working



Sparx
06-17-2015, 05:18 PM
Got my new not working from the start, PM 45 back from Kahr today and it still stove pipe jams. It does it with 230 grain ball factory PPU and Blazer brass. I am also getting occasional premature slide lock backs. This issue occurs with each of two mags with either ammo. Guns has close to 300 rounds through it.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26998-CM9-has-been-perfect-Would-getting-a-PM9-be-foolish-UPDATE***Got-a-PM45-BIG-MISTAKE

And on a different note; of course my Kahr CM9 now has aver 1100 rounds fired, with not one single problem.

Seems in recent years if you get a good firearm, you are set. If you get a bad gun, repairs never can make it right.

Kahr apparently repaired the failure to extract, which was about 30% of the problems this gun has.

How was your Kahr repair experience, mine sucks!
sparx

jcannady
06-17-2015, 05:22 PM
My PM45 is finicky. Some ammo it loves (Win 1911 is one) and some it hates (ranger-t unfortunately). It can be a pricey journey to find reliable ammo but to me it was worth it. I have 1000 in mine now.
Jim

yqtszhj
06-17-2015, 05:31 PM
Well, they replaced my cw45 frame and its running good. I did have 2 stovepipes in the first 50 after frame replacement due to i figure dirt and/or weak ammo. I haven't had a problem since then using fiocchi ammo. The 2 stovepipes i had were with blazer brass.

Never had a stovepipe with my cm45.

Sparx
06-17-2015, 05:39 PM
When I got to about 45 rounds fired today, I had a stove pipe on every magazine.

Be wiser to carry a sling shot than this pistol.
Sparx

yqtszhj
06-17-2015, 05:52 PM
Can you tell if it is a certain round in the mag that stovepipes or is it random?

kenemoore
06-17-2015, 07:08 PM
Sometimes you get lemons, I have a PM9 I bought used with a reported 300 rounds, I have about 300 in her too, never an issue of any kind. Have a PM45 I bought new, about 800 rounds so far, not a single issue. I have a cw380 that is a hunk of junk, I have about given up on it. Point being, some times you get a lemon, I would hound Kahr until they made things right. I've worked on the .380 and I think I can fix it, but it's taken 6 months and about 500 rounds.

CJB
06-17-2015, 07:58 PM
Got my new not working from the start, PM 45 back from Kahr today and it still stove pipe jams. It does it with 230 grain ball factory PPU and Blazer brass. I am also getting occasional premature slide lock backs

Seems in recent years if you get a good firearm, you are set. If you get a bad gun, repairs never can make it right.



Sparx, shoot the hottest ammo you can find, keep a good grip, and keep your thumb away from the release. The PM/CM 45 has a tight recoil spring assembly. You need to get it limbered up some, and the stovepipe problem wil go away. Lock back prematurely is usually can be a problem with the slide stop spring, the shooters thumb, or the nose on the slide stop being hit by rounds rising in the magazine. You can check for the latter with your slide and barrel off the frame, but the slide stop and a magazine with two shots in it inserted into the frame.

Sorry you had some issues, but what you said about "if you get a good firearm you're set, if you get a bad gun, repairs can never make it right" are an uncalled for disgrace to Kahr. Your opinion yes, but you have little facts to base that on, and are relying on your emotions tied to recent issues to "create a fact scenario". Its poor form ol' chap.

b4uqzme
06-17-2015, 09:24 PM
there are lotsa posts about how to adjust that slide stop screw. gb6491 even has a video on youtube. Hope it helps. I agree with CJB --- a good grip and more break-in might cure those stovepipes. I know you have a CM9 but they are different.

Sparx
06-18-2015, 11:20 AM
It is the 2nd round now any magazine any ammo, before they repaired it was usually the 3rd round, any magazine I tried.
Sparx

Sparx
06-18-2015, 11:21 AM
there are lotsa posts about how to adjust that slide stop screw. gb6491 even has a video on youtube. Hope it helps. I agree with CJB --- a good grip and more break-in might cure those stovepipes. I know you have a CM9 but they are different.

Gun has 300 rounds +- 10 fired.
sparx

Sparx
06-18-2015, 11:23 AM
Sparx, shoot the hottest ammo you can find, keep a good grip, and keep your thumb away from the release. The PM/CM 45 has a tight recoil spring assembly. You need to get it limbered up some, and the stovepipe problem wil go away. Lock back prematurely is usually can be a problem with the slide stop spring, the shooters thumb, or the nose on the slide stop being hit by rounds rising in the magazine. You can check for the latter with your slide and barrel off the frame, but the slide stop and a magazine with two shots in it inserted into the frame.

Sorry you had some issues, but what you said about "if you get a good firearm you're set, if you get a bad gun, repairs can never make it right" are an uncalled for disgrace to Kahr. Your opinion yes, but you have little facts to base that on, and are relying on your emotions tied to recent issues to "create a fact scenario". Its poor form ol' chap.

I guess we will see, got another RMA for the pistol just now to go back to Kahr.
These guns retail for about $800.00, I would have thought they would work. (not like we are speaking about a Taurus) Besides, isn't it service that makes the difference in any manufacturer?
Sparx

Bawanna
06-18-2015, 11:56 AM
Just send it back. Describe clearly and in detail exactly what all you are experiencing.

Send the whole thing with your mags in the original box so everything can be looked at and tested with your stuff.

It's a pain in the keester but they will take care of it. Get it running right and there's nothing like it.

hardknocks1
06-18-2015, 05:58 PM
Hello
Sometimes you just get a lemon.
I don't throw good money after bad.
But I won't hesitate to get a nother one that most likely will run.
I been lucky with 3 9mm kahrs.
it may cost you more to get this one working than a trade in.
good luck

Bawanna
06-18-2015, 06:00 PM
Shouldn't cost him anything to get it running. If Kahr can't make it run, they'll make him a new one.

It might take some patience and even a trip or two back but it's not gambling. No risk.

Sparx
06-18-2015, 06:17 PM
Shouldn't cost him anything to get it running. If Kahr can't make it run, they'll make him a new one.

It might take some patience and even a trip or two back but it's not gambling. No risk.

This is what I expect,the gun never functioned properly from the first outing. I do have a CM9 that has been perfect, so a working Kahr is not an anomaly.
It went back today, should be at Kahr tomorrow morning.
sparx

CJB
06-18-2015, 06:27 PM
There is no such thing as a lemon Kahr. There are Kahr pistols that are not within the manufacturing spec. There are user expectations that exceed the design spec. And there are users that are so convinced things are bad, they just will never be satisfied. Not saying the latter is the case in this instance.

Sparx
06-18-2015, 06:57 PM
Last week I purchsed this CW 45, brand new, while the PM45 was in for repair at Kahr. Not sure I want to take the chance and fire it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%20cw%2045%2005%202015/IMG_6550.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/kahr%20cw%2045%2005%202015/IMG_6553.jpg

cdjohnson
06-18-2015, 07:02 PM
I agree with kenemoore, my first gun was a Ruger P95. I could never get that thing to work. I never sent back to Ruger because i didn't know that i could. but i kept shooting it and one day it work flawlessly and never had an issue again. Its like a possi traction rearend I can't explain why but it just does. lol. best of luck and hope that she comes around

CJB
06-19-2015, 12:14 AM
Sparx.....how about dropping the woe is me routine. Your fascination for internet sympathy is a bit too obvious.

Sparx
06-19-2015, 08:18 AM
Sparx.....how about dropping the woe is me routine. Your fascination for internet sympathy is a bit too obvious.

I post issues with brand new guns that should work but don't to let other people know what they might be experiencing.

If I can buy over 15 M1 garands a year (and I do) and have every one of them work, or get them working myself, I see no reason why a brand new gun that has been on the market for years should not work or cannot be promply corrected. Too many people are getting new guns that are not working, I go to the range about 4-5 a weeks see it almost every day.

Why do the S&W's work 95% of the time, or if they don't they are repaired the first time around, and without a battle for a return label? Same for Glock? And don't tell me to go buy a S&W and a Glock, because I already have. Right now I am 50-50 with Kahr, lets see it they are capable in repairing their pistol.

And this "keep shooting the gun, it will smooth out and work" theory is a lot CRAP.

Sparx

markerbeacon
06-19-2015, 09:21 AM
Sparx.....how about dropping the woe is me routine. Your fascination for internet sympathy is a bit too obvious.

Makes you wonder if the whole issue with his Kahr is just a story…

Sparx
06-19-2015, 09:57 AM
Makes you wonder if the whole issue with his Kahr is just a story…

Here you go run the tracking number. Hopefully you are capable of understanding what these images indicate.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/pm45%20papers/IMG_6554.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/pm45%20papers/IMG_6556.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/sparx21/pm45%20papers/IMG_6555.jpg

berettabone
06-19-2015, 10:05 AM
You can get M1 Garands to work, but you can't figure out how to fix this problem????????????????????????????

Bawanna
06-19-2015, 10:10 AM
My spidy senses are detecting some tension here. Let's all take a breath and stay on course.

Really shouldn't have to fix a problem with a brand new gun but it does happen. It's back at the mother ship hopefully getting all fixed up and it will be worth it when it's all sorted out.

According to Patton, the M1 Garand was the finest battle implement ever devised. I love mine (only got 1), always seems to work for me, don't shoot it much lately. Need to give it a run one of these days.

Sparx
06-19-2015, 10:24 AM
You can get M1 Garands to work, but you can't figure out how to fix this problem????????????????????????????

Correct

Sparx
06-19-2015, 10:25 AM
My spidy senses are detecting some tension here. Let's all take a breath and stay on course.

Really shouldn't have to fix a problem with a brand new gun but it does happen. It's back at the mother ship hopefully getting all fixed up and it will be worth it when it's all sorted out.

According to Patton, the M1 Garand was the finest battle implement ever devised. I love mine (only got 1), always seems to work for me, don't shoot it much lately. Need to give it a run one of these days.

Thanks for this. ;)

Rangemeister
06-19-2015, 10:26 AM
Good thinking Bawanna!

I too have experienced bad Kahr pistols. I got one of the first T40's and the first time on the range, a couple of key elements of the pistol fell OFF the gun while I was shooting! Man was I despaired. I had a PM45 that never worked right and the early PM series guns were hit and miss. Yet I have always had a Kahr in my arsenal. My current PM45 is a gem and a great carry cannon. Hopefully they will get your bugs worked out, I remember having a Elite 40 I bought used and it was suffering the memorable peening problem, but the gun was bought used and since I was an LEO type and bought from another LEO, they took care of the problem. Kahr CS is pretty good.

CJB
06-19-2015, 10:57 AM
Sparx, it aint crap.

CJB
06-19-2015, 03:25 PM
Quotes from the Hon. Sparx

"I post issues with brand new guns that should work but don't to let other people know what they might be experiencing."

"This is what I expect,the gun never functioned properly from the first outing."

"These guns retail for about $800.00, I would have thought they would work. (not like we are speaking about a Taurus) Besides, isn't it service that makes the difference in any manufacturer?"

"Be wiser to carry a sling shot than this pistol."

"How was your Kahr repair experience, mine sucks!"

"...my new not working from the start...."

"Seems in recent years if you get a good firearm, you are set. If you get a bad gun, repairs never can make it right."


In this thread, not one question. Only venting and dire, dire warnings, based on your self proclaimed proficiency. I call that a woe-is-me attitude, you're trying to enlist symphathy againt Kahr for your own thus far bad experience.

Had you said something to the sort, such as "I got this Kahr. It had problems so I sent it back. But it still has problems, what should I do?", then I would say you're honestly seeking some help. You are not. You are here to complain and kvetch about Kahr and bring as many folks into the fray as you can.

Here is exactly why the 300 rounds is not crap.

Kahr is a very refined design, who's primary parameter, its reason for being, is to be small and reliable. Addressing small, you will notice that compared against other designs, the breech face overtravel of the Kahr, as it strips a new round from the magazine, is quite minimal. Compare it to, say, a Colt .45 Auto, which has generous overtravel. Due to this, in a effort to keep things small, the mechanism is more sensitive to the strength of the recoil spring assembly. Kahr must make, and does make, the recoil springs in such a manner that they will become the springs they ought to be, for correct operation. They are some stiff springs as new. You must take this into consideration. The use of high power ammo, not run of the mill target ammo, will facilitate this "spring set" as well as facilitate the very tight design tolerance of the Kahr. Because of the way spring metal works, holding back the slide, racking by hand, will not do much to the overall set of the spring. Rapid flexing is the only way to do that, and the more rapid, the better. Hence the advice of stout ammo.

Keep in mind, this assumes a proper hold, and also means when you change the recoil spring, you should re-ensure the new spring's set before critical use is undertaken.

Folks here have been ready, willing and able to load up their vast experience and advice to you. You have countered with complaints and arrogance. I personally have no room for either, and.... there is really no excuse for Kahr bashing. Be a man. Hold the pistol like a man. Solve any problems like a man. Enjoy the pistol, like a man. Can you do that, please?

And if you ever want to unload your problem Kahr, I'll take it. Never saw a Kahr with an issue that couldn't be easily resolved!

Sparx
06-19-2015, 04:00 PM
I shoot with one hand, have sine 1968. Two hand shooting does not work for me.

I have no problems with S&W, Glock, Springfield Armory- xds, xdm, and a Kahr CM9, that has 1000+ rounds through it with no malfunctions. I also had 3 Keltec PF9's that NEVER jammed with tons of round thru them.

I use the same brands of ammo in all these pistols, no Russian crap. I have never had a jam in any SA XD pistol of 5 of them, nor the S&W shield or MP compact 9mm's I own or the excellent kahr CM9 I have.

This PM45 has issues. The last outing after about 30 rounds, approaching the 300 round count, I could only fire ONE round and the gun jammed, 4 mags in a row. I gave up after this.
Hardly a carry gun.

I get the impression from you CJB, that I should bow down to the PM45 just because it is a beloved Kahr; sorry a pistol that has this many issues is not getting my respect. The fact the the Company, Kahr fought so hard to not send a shipping label for a gun with so many problems didn't do anything to help. The gun is back in their hands let's see if they can troubleshoot it this time.

Sold the PW45today, not interested in any more experimentation.

sparx

b4uqzme
06-19-2015, 04:05 PM
Gun has 300 rounds +- 10 fired.
sparx

Sorry. Just trying to help. My CM45 has twice that many rounds and is still getting better every outing. Maybe yours will too?

CJB
06-19-2015, 06:20 PM
I get the impression from you CJB, that I should bow down to the PM45 just because it is a beloved Kahr; sorry a pistol that has this many issues is not getting my respect. The fact the the Company, Kahr fought so hard to not send a shipping label for a gun with so many problems didn't do anything to help. The gun is back in their hands let's see if they can troubleshoot it this time.

Sold the PW45today, not interested in any more experimentation.

sparx

You got totally the wrong impression, and I shall restate myself, in hopes you get the correct impression this time around.

You came here to complain. You came to elicit sympathy. You did not seek advice, nor did you take any that was offered freely. You know everything. You have everything. You have done everything. I guess there is nothing much to offer a person in your fine state of assured self engrandizement.

One thing I wont stand for, is a Kahr basher, who bashes for no really good reason. Having a pistol that needs some TLC is hardly reason to whine and whimper.

Some people think of the glass helf empty. Others half full. I say, to hell with it, either way there's room for more alcohol!

berettabone
06-19-2015, 06:34 PM
:popcorn::cheer2::popcorn:

Sparx
06-19-2015, 06:51 PM
CJB,

I don't need sympathy from you or anyone. I came here to find out how others are fairing with this Kahr model, and to find out what their experinces with Kahr customer service was lately.
I didn't come here to bash Kahr, I came here to point out that in my situation kahr failed in customer service.

So, I buy a brand new Kahr PM45 (the upper level model) and it:



fails to strip a round off the top of a fresh magazine
fails to eject consistantly
fails to feed due to stove pipe failures
And these problems occur with 230 pumpkin ball .45, which is suppose to be the easiest round for a .45 auto to cycle.

And you say I am am having no good reason to complain.

Also I returned the gun to Kahr, and it comes back and still does not feed properly and it displays a new problem, by premature slide lock back.

And of course for your convenience you ignore the PRAISE I have had for my Kahr CM9, in this thread and in an earlier thread.

So I lay down HUNDREDS of dollars for a new Kahr pm45 that does not work at the onset, after being, cleaned, lubed and fired about 200 rounds, it goes back to the factory, and returns with one original malfunction and a new malfunction.

And this is not a legitimate complaint?

Your display and example of accepting substandard customer service is a major part of what is wrong with the United States, accepting mediocrity and inconsistency in produced goods does not provide a solution or an improved product.

sparx

Bawanna
06-19-2015, 07:42 PM
Well boys and girls I think we've pretty much covered all the bases here, some more than once.

So as the sun sets in the East, no, West I think, well when the hot ball in the sky goes down this thread will self destruct in 3.2.1.......