Good News, Not So Good News on the CW380

[Coppertop]

Finally had a chance to spend some time at the range with the CW380 today. I ran a box of PMC FMJ, Blazer Brass FMJ, Winchester Flat Nose FMJ and Hornady Personal Defense through the CW380.

The first four magazines of ammo failed to lock back the slide and I had a total of three malfunctions during the first six magazines. Each malfunction was a failure to feed from a locked back slide.

http://www.pbase.com/coppertop/image/160484774.jpg

The rest of the day the CW380 loaded reliably and the slide locked back on every magazine after the first few cycles. While the malfunctions went away, I did develop a new problem with the trigger pin. After a few rounds being fired, the pin would slowly try to work its way out of the frame. Luckily, each time I could feel it with my right hand and could push it back almost flush with the frame. However it would take a punch to hammer it flush with the frame.

http://www.pbase.com/coppertop/image/160484775.jpg

Any suggestions? Again, it takes about four rounds to get the pin to jump out as pictured above and I can push it almost flush with the frame by just using my thumb. I wonder if it is something as simple as having a bad pin.

[Bawanna]

Yeah, on the other side there's a little tiny cross pin. See if you can tap that out a bit, drive the trigger pin back where it belongs and reset the cross pin. Might have missed it during assembly. Seen it a few times. Don't recall it specifically on a 380.
Or it could be the pin isn't even there, that might even be more likely.

[Coppertop]

Not showing a cross pin on the parts list over at Kahr's website and nothing visible when tapped fully in place.

[yqtszhj]

I don't believe the cross pin is a part. It's part of the frame i believe. It's pretty small too and not too obvious unless your looking for it. You may have to call kahr if it keeps walking out on you.

[CJB]

Isn't the "cross pin" more like a spring pin put into the frame to engage a groove in the trigger pin?

[Bawanna]

Precisely correct. Usually they are what backs out a smidge and they just need to be tapped back in and sometime superglued.

[Coppertop]

Well... I kinda see what you are talking about from the schematics. The pin is recessed at the tip that should catch on the exit hole on the frame. I may just need to give it a good whack with a nylon punch to get it to seat.

I have emailed Kahr about it and hopefully it can be fixed without sending it in.

[yqtszhj]

I know how you feel. I gate to send in something that is working.

[CJB]

Precisely correct. Usually they are what backs out a smidge and they just need to be tapped back in and sometime superglued.

TY Colonel....

[CJB]

On a more interesting note, I'm amazed ol' Justin didn't make the trigger spring itself be the retainer for the trigger pin. Kill two birds with one stone (aka "a Quigly"). Also be lots easier to service etc. Maybe it was to make it service "unfriendly" for a reason, dunno!

[Coppertop]

Well that sucks. Only solution from Kahr is to send the pistol in for service.
And on top of all that, the Service Department is experiencing a 2-3 week turnaround.

This is definitely a first and Kahr really needs to get its act together on the production end of things. You shouldn't have to return a firearm for service so quickly. Whether it is for a failure to feed issue, a failure for the slide to lock issue or a pin that won't stay put. Just shouldn't happen out of the box.

The only saving grace will be if the Service Department is as good as so many claim it is. And if that is the case, Kahr's Service Department needs to share their notes with Production to avoid all these out of the box repairs.

[yqtszhj]

Well that sucks. Only solution from Kahr is to send the pistol in for service.
And on top of all that, the Service Department is experiencing a 2-3 week turnaround.

This is definitely a first and Kahr really needs to get its act together on the production end of things. You shouldn't have to return a firearm for service so quickly. Whether it is for a failure to feed issue, a failure for the slide to lock issue or a pin that won't stay put. Just shouldn't happen out of the box.

The only saving grace will be if the Service Department is as good as so many claim it is. And if that is the case, Kahr's Service Department needs to share their notes with Production to avoid all these out of the box repairs.

I think 2-3 weeks is worse case. I sent my 45 back for a frame trouble and from the day I shipped to the day I got a call from my ffl that they put a new frame and I could pick it up was 9 calendar days. My gun has functioned find also.

+1 for kahr service.

[Coppertop]

So far things aren't working out too well. Received an email that a shipping label would be sent to me shortly. That was five hours ago and zero response from my follow-up emails. I'll give them another few then call to see what is going on.

I'm not having any luck with Kahr so far.

[cobrasjp]

Check out this thread:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=2031

Had the same thing happen to my P380 years ago. Kahr took care of it promptly.

[yqtszhj]

So far things aren't working out too well. Received an email that a shipping label would be sent to me shortly. That was five hours ago and zero response from my follow-up emails. I'll give them another few then call to see what is going on.

I'm not having any luck with Kahr so far.

If they said they would send a label, and they sent an email saying they were sending a label, don't worry, you're having lots of good luck with Kahr. If Kahr is bothering you dont call colt, sig, S&W, Bersa, or Taurus. Show a little patience. Trust me, I'm re-doing a kitchen and between wife, budget, and verifying that contractors are doing their part right on countertops I'm getting a lesson in patience. Hang in there.

[Coppertop]

Spoke too soon.

Took the CW380 out to the range this morning. Everything ran fine for the first few magazines and then the damn trigger pivot pin began to inch out of the frame again.
Shooting PMC Bronze 90gr. FMJ.
Hoping second time to send this back to Kahr does the trick. The more I shoot this gun, the more I like it and I really want it to be reliable.

[BEARDOG]

Spoke too soon.

Took the CW380 out to the range this morning. Everything ran fine for the first few magazines and then the damn trigger pivot pin began to inch out of the frame again.
Shooting PMC Bronze 90gr. FMJ.
Hoping second time to send this back to Kahr does the trick. The more I shoot this gun, the more I like it and I really want it to be reliable.

That is not good...

What did they say they did the last time? Did they put a second pin in like they did in Cobrajsp's link?

Can you post some pics of the trigger pivot pin+ retainer pin area?
Does it look like the end of the pin (left side) is sitting off center in the frame hole?

[Coppertop]

The first service attempt they replaced/reseated the pin, test fired it and all was good.
Already received the shipping label and have dropped the gun off at FedEx.

From what I remember, the pin did not look off-set on the left side of the gun.
I was tempted to just put a couple of drops of lock-tite and reset things myself but hate jerry-rigging a solution when the gun is only a few weeks old.

I didn't reset the pin and hopefully that will help Kahr pick up on the problem this go around. Fingers crossed all goes well.

[jws360]

Finally had a chance to spend some time at the range with the CW380 today.......The rest of the day the CW380 loaded reliably and the slide locked back on every magazine after the first few cycles. While the malfunctions went away, I did develop a new problem with the trigger pin. After a few rounds being fired, the pin would slowly try to work its way out of the frame. Luckily, each time I could feel it with my right hand and could push it back almost flush with the frame. However it would take a punch to hammer it flush with the frame.

http://www.pbase.com/coppertop/image/160484775.jpg

Any suggestions? Again, it takes about four rounds to get the pin to jump out as pictured above and I can push it almost flush with the frame by just using my thumb. I wonder if it is something as simple as having a bad pin.

This is EXACTLY what I had happen right around the same time to a new CW380. Every 2 rounds the pin would start to come out no matter how many times I tapped it back in.

Ended up having to send it back to Kahr. Came back a week later with note it was "repaired" and a new slide stop.

Put 70-80 through it today. It HATED, and I mean HATED, some old Winchester white box 95g target ammo (with the flat tip)I was looking to use up for break in. Ran better on a mix of Magtech, American and Federal.

I'll run another 150 & then a box or two of my actual carry ammo (Federal Hydra-Shock) for a full break in & function test.

Shoots nice, especially when the trigger pin stays put. I do now see where is "tiny cross pin" people here are talking about is, though. Very tiny hole under the frame by the trigger pin. What I cannot see is where this is pin and/or other parts is listed on Kahr's parts list. What am I missing?

Gotta wonder if this is becoming a pattern. Odd that a few of us would have it at the same time.

[Coppertop]

Just received notification from Kahr. The frame on the CW380 is faulty and is preventing the pin to seat correctly (quality control issue?). The only solution is to replace the frame, which means a new serial number. The new serial number turns my old CW380 into a new gun and returning the gun to me hits a barrel of red-tape.

So the solution is to send a new firearm to an FFL dealer. Luckily, I will have it sent to the dealer I purchased the CW380 from and they will not charge me the transfer fee.

Before I begin to ***** about this, I do understand that Kahr's hands are tied by the Federal Regs on this one. Still, there is a lot of room for improvement on how they break this news to customers.

I asked Kahr if they thought it was right to charge me a fee to get the firearm back off a warranty repair. I was told Kahr was not charging me anything for the repair. It was the FFL holder who was imposing the fee. What pissed me off was this kid washing his hands off the issue and simply reading from a script. I know Kahr isn't charging me the fee but they should at least acknowledge that it sucks to have bought a gun less than a month ago, had it sent in for repairs twice and now face a FFL transfer fee.

Instead, I get the "It's not our fault" attitude from Kahr. Luckily, I have a local dealer that is going to right on this situation but Kahr could be a little more sympathetic. At least pretend that they care about their customers.

For those who are experiencing similar issues with the trigger pivot pin, I wish you better luck. If you do have to have your frame replaced and a new serial number, check with the dealer you purchased the firearm from. Hopefully, they will do as mine did and waive the transfer fee. It's something that Kahr could have mentioned that would have made this be an easier pill to swallow. Instead, they hid behind the "we aren't charging you anything" party line.

This is my first time dealing with Kahr and while I am really impressed with the potential the CW380 has, I'm not that impressed with the company. Asides from dealing with Matt on the first repair, everyone else I have talked to gives off the impression they could care less. Combined with the 200 round break-in period (which I don't think should be necessary), this is one purchase I'm starting to regret.

The CW380 is an appealing firearm, but you need a lot of patience to own one. If you need something that is good to go out of the box, I would find it hard to recommend Kahr as my first choice.

[SlowBurn]

Luckily, I have a local dealer that is going to right on this situation but Kahr could be a little more sympathetic. ...
The CW380 is an appealing firearm, but you need a lot of patience to own one.

Patience is important. This will pass and you'll own a great carry piece at a value price, and the frustration will be a distant memory. Just hang in there.

Most aggravating thing I ever did was build a custom home. The delays, inconveniences and frustrations seemed almost unbearable. The builder was very sympathetic, but that didn't make me feel even a little better. In fact it was annoying: I didn't want sympathy, I wanted the house finished. Point is, a year after we moved in we were loving it so much it was hard to recall the grief.

[cobrasjp]

I do now see where is "tiny cross pin" people here are talking about is, though. Very tiny hole under the frame by the trigger pin. What I cannot see is where this is pin and/or other parts is listed on Kahr's parts list. What am I missing?


I'll try to get a picture of it this evening and post it. It's hard to get a clear picture because it's so small. You have to have good lighting and a camera with a macro mode.

Edited. Disregard. I misread your post.

[Coppertop]

Patience is important. This will pass and you'll own a great carry piece at a value price, and the frustration will be a distant memory. Just hang in there.

Thanks. I hope you are right.