Coming soon to Amerika

[wyntrout]

Not my words. Just got this in an email. I thought I remembered some of the VATs being higher in the 80's when I was over there.
Coming soon to Amerika:


The only thing that can bring America back from the brink is the "Fair Tax". If you have not read Neal Boortz's book you need to. It's the only plan that will bring investment money and jobs back to this country. This is not a tax cut for the wealthy or a sinister plan to kick the poor and downtrodden. It's revenue neutral and turns April 15th into just another nice spring day. It does take most of the power away from the politicians. Thats why it's always portrayed as just another additional tax like a VAT (Value Added Tax).




Subject: Pay attention America
Current European tax rates:

United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50%
VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

France
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

Greece
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%

Spain
Income Tax: 45%
VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

Portugal
Income Tax: 42%
VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

Sweden
Income Tax: 55%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

Norway
Income Tax: 54.3%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax: 52%
VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

Denmark
Income Tax: 58%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

Finland
Income Tax: 53%
VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%

If you've started to wonder what the real costs of socialism are going to be, once the full program in these United States hits your wallet, take a look at the table. As you digest these mind-boggling figures, keep in mind that in spite of these astronomical tax rates, these countries are still not financing their social welfare programs exclusively from tax revenues! They are deeply mired in public debt of gargantuan proportions. Greece has reached the point where its debt is so huge it is in imminent danger of defaulting. That is the reason the European economic community has intervened to bail them out. If you're following the financial news, you know Spain and Portugal are right behind Greece.


The United States is now heading right down the same path. The tax in the table is the national sales tax that Europeans pay. Stay tuned because that is exactly what you can expect to see the administration proposing after the fall elections. The initial percentage in the United States isn't going to be anywhere near the outrageous numbers you now see in Europe. Guess what, the current outrageous numbers in Europe didn't start out as outrageous either. They started out as miniscule right around the 1% or 2% where they will start out in the United States. Magically however, they ran up over the years to where they are now. Expect the same thing here.
It's time to rethink the American Dream idea: It is the notion that with hard work and perseverance, anybody can get ahead economically here. Do you think that can ever happen with tax rates between 60% and 80%? Think again. With the government taking that percentage of your money, your life will be exactly like life in Europe. You will never be able to buy a home. You will never buy a car. You will never send your children to college. Let's not shuffle the battle cry of the socialists under the rug either. It's always the same cry. Equalize income. Spread the wealth; to the poor; (whoever they are). Level the economic playing field. Accomplish that and everything will be rosy.


It's time to take a really hard look at reality. Greece is a perfect example. Despite the socialism system that has ruled this country for decades, with a 65% tax rate, they are drowning in public debt, would have defaulted without hundreds of billions in bailout money, and still. . .20% of their population lives in poverty. What has all that socialism money bought, besides ultimate power for the politicians running the show? Do you think these people are "free"? They're not. They are slaves to their economic "system."


Wynn: And the pols want to seize control of all retirement plans... just think of all the spending they can do... like they did with the Social Security "Lockbox". They want all labor and businesses under the thumb or boot of the "Big Labor" bosses. They want to control what you eat, what you watch, what you listen to, and indeed, what you think.
When they do have control of everything, they will start looking at ways to cut costs because they will have killed the "Golden Goose" and won't have the tax income to finance their plans. One way is to ration services and "stuff" to the part of their "base" that's still worth keeping around. Old people and opponents just don't need as much medical care and other "stuff".
Wynn:mad:

[jlottmc]

I hate to say it but you're right again. Let's vote the bums out, fire the staff, and start with out them.

[mr surveyor]

I say we dig up Ronald Reagan and stand his casket up in the oval office as President. That would return some honor, dignity, civility, honesty, integrity, common sense...........(long list) back to the federal government. He would be a much better leader from the grave than anything we have at this point in time! I miss Ronaldus Magmus!

your opinions may vary

surv

[Bawanna]

I say we dig up Ronald Reagan and stand his casket up in the oval office as President. That would return some honor, dignity, civility, honesty, integrity, common sense...........(long list) back to the federal government. He would be a much better leader from the grave than anything we have at this point in time! I miss Ronaldus Magmus!

your opinions may vary

surv

+1 scent along with several alleleuyahs. (guess I'll have to learn to spell that someday). I miss him too.
I've amended my voting wishes, last time it was anything but Hillary, (horribly bad plan) I thought McCain was a shoe in even with Palin but alas that went south too. Hope she doesn't mess us up if she runs and takes votes from another worthy hopefully America loving republican with common sense. Thats a boat load of dreaming huh?

[Bawanna]

I say we dig up Ronald Reagan and stand his casket up in the oval office as President. That would return some honor, dignity, civility, honesty, integrity, common sense...........(long list) back to the federal government. He would be a much better leader from the grave than anything we have at this point in time! I miss Ronaldus Magmus!

your opinions may vary

surv

At least Ronald wouldn't bow to every burger king in the world either. Kind of stiff. I think he looked at an angels face.

[Jim K]

There are no new frontiers. Vote is your only hope.

[O'Dell]

I say we dig up Ronald Reagan and stand his casket up in the oval office as President. That would return some honor, dignity, civility, honesty, integrity, common sense...........(long list) back to the federal government. He would be a much better leader from the grave than anything we have at this point in time! I miss Ronaldus Magmus!

your opinions may vary

surv

Best President in my lifetime. I heard today that Newt is getting closer to making a run. I bump into him occasionally, and hear him quite often on Boortz. I'm not sure he's electable, but his views are closer to mine than anyone else in national politics. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

[OldLincoln]

Taxes... now that's a great subject to make one think twice about spending money on a new gun. I've made my personal speeches to lots of people but nothing ever changes. Here's a short version:

We already pay a sort of VAT in the US, only it's pass-along-taxes. Think of the final consumer buying a loaf of bread that may not even be taxed in the traditional sense. But starting with wheat farmer (tier 1) put together all the taxes on land, equipment, supplies, parole they pay.

Yes they pay it but of course they recover it in the prices they charge - so they are passing it along. Now consider each tier and what they add and the taxes they pass along. So if you buy a loaf of bread for $3.00, consider that you are paying at least $1.50 in taxes, everybody else's in the supply chain even if not your direct taxes.

Next apply a reasonable percentage of everything you buy in the course of a year as pass-along-taxes and calc what percent that is of your gross income. Finally add your direct taxes (house, parole, income, etc) and you will find the US tax rate is much higher than the Administration (all of them) what you to know.

[O'Dell]

Taxes... now that's a great subject to make one think twice about spending money on a new gun. I've made my personal speeches to lots of people but nothing ever changes. Here's a short version:

We already pay a sort of VAT in the US, only it's pass-along-taxes. Think of the final consumer buying a loaf of bread that may not even be taxed in the traditional sense. But starting with wheat farmer (tier 1) put together all the taxes on land, equipment, supplies, parole they pay.

Yes they pay it but of course they recover it in the prices they charge - so they are passing it along. Now consider each tier and what they add and the taxes they pass along. So if you buy a loaf of bread for $3.00, consider that you are paying at least $1.50 in taxes, everybody else's in the supply chain even if not your direct taxes.

Next apply a reasonable percentage of everything you buy in the course of a year as pass-along-taxes and calc what percent that is of your gross income. Finally add your direct taxes (house, parole, income, etc) and you will find the US tax rate is much higher than the Administration (all of them) what you to know.

The answer is the FairTax. That would solve a lot of our problems.

[johnh]

Right you are! I sure hope political change is in the wind, as I would like to see a FairTax make it. With Obama in office, there is no way it can get through the Whitehouse, but perhaps the next president will have a chance to sign such legislation.

John

[jlottmc]

These tax and spend loonies just don't see what they are doing, and don't quit. If they do see what they are doing, then that's even worse and could be defined as criminal.

[DKD]

No Not criminal....Treason!

[jlottmc]

I like that too. Either way we can have Ole Sparky ready for them.:D

[OldLincoln]

The "Fair Tax" is anything BUT fair! The basic premise is that only consumption would be taxed. Who consumes the most as a percent of income? Those making up to $200K. Who consumes the least? How about those $100M and up folks.

Sure it would be nice bringing in $100M per and socking $99M of it away tax paid! I think I could squeeze by on $1M don't you?

Now about those of us who make the buffalo bark to get by on social security. Our salaries were less in those days and the cost of scraping by has risen over the years. How about living on half what we did 20 years ago? With inflation and the cost of stuff that's what happening to a lot of us. So now you want to tax us AGAIN only this time on what we spend. Yeah, you taxed us on what we made and noe anything we socked away will be taxed a second time when we spend it. Does that sound fair to you???

I'm not bitching about my age or income. It is what it is and it's NOT your or anybody else's fault. I only ask to be left with something to live on for a few years. So please don't take it away in more taxes.

[O'Dell]

The "Fair Tax" is anything BUT fair! The basic premise is that only consumption would be taxed. Who consumes the most as a percent of income? Those making up to $200K. Who consumes the least? How about those $100M and up folks.

Sure it would be nice bringing in $100M per and socking $99M of it away tax paid! I think I could squeeze by on $1M don't you?

Now about those of us who make the buffalo bark to get by on social security. Our salaries were less in those days and the cost of scraping by has risen over the years. How about living on half what we did 20 years ago? With inflation and the cost of stuff that's what happening to a lot of us. So now you want to tax us AGAIN only this time on what we spend. Yeah, you taxed us on what we made and noe anything we socked away will be taxed a second time when we spend it. Does that sound fair to you???

I'm not bitching about my age or income. It is what it is and it's NOT your or anybody else's fault. I only ask to be left with something to live on for a few years. So please don't take it away in more taxes.

The FairTax is quite "fair". It's the only voluntary tax that's ever been been proposed. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't spend beyond the basic necessaries. You get reimbursed for those with the pre-bate. It would jump-start our economy because it does away with the corporate income tax [along with the income tax, SS tax, medicare tax, death tax, capital gains tax, self employment tax, gift tax, alternative minimum tax, and probably others I haven't thought of], and corporations from all over the world would be flocking to set up operations in the U.S.

There's somewhere between 13 and 18 trillion dollars of US money now overseas to avoid the punitive US tax system. Most, if not all, of that money would flow back into this country if these taxes were eliminated. Can you imagine what would happen to our economy if only half of that money was injected into it?

[wyntrout]

At present you're still paying taxes on whatever you buy because EVERY process and raw material is taxed from growing or production until you buy an item. Just think of the workers involved, the fuel or electricity in manufacture and transportation... over and over until the item finally hits the shelf. All of the taxation costs are passed along to the buyer and then the states throw sales tax on top of that. The Fair Tax doesn't have anything to do with the states. Something would have to be worked out with them.

If we adopted the Fair Tax, after getting rid of the Income Tax and all of the other Federal taxes on paychecks (a necessary part of the process for adopting the Fair Tax), our country would experience an economic boom like never before, because of the trillions of dollars that would come back here after the capital gains tax is gone. Think of all of the businesses that would start up or expand and all of the new jobs that would be created and even move back here from overseas. People would have all of their takehome pay to spend and more products would be manufactured and sold with more tax revenues than ever before would be collected.

Everyone will get a pre-bate check each month to cover the taxes on life's basic necessities. The BIG improvement is the whole U.S. economy would explode with all of the untaxed capital available for starting and expanding business. Everyone would be better off.

Wynn

[OldLincoln]

I read the Wikipedia article on Fair Tax. Evidently it is not the same as VAT.

Maybe I just can't get it, but it seems to me that only charging a 30% sales tax on the final consumer of goods would be a bit stretched to make up all the corporate, parole, wholesale, medicare and all other federal taxes paid today. I guess the federal government will pay the 30% tax on all supplies and materials they buy also. Let's see, who pays them? And don't forget the "spending allowance" payments TO everybody monthly. That's gotta hurt the kitty a bit.

But, to be fair I'll read up on the Fair Tax concept and arguments for and against. I'm a subscriber to the Will Rogers philosophy of common sense and so far this sounds like something he would include in his dialogue. "You hear about the Government dropping all $20 trillion dollars of federal taxes and making it up with $20 Billion in sales tax? Oh those rascals are at it again, hold on tight to your wallet."

[O'Dell]

A good place to start would be the book "FairTax, The Truth" by John Linder [US Representative from the 9th District of GA] and Neal Boortz [Talk Show Host and FT advocate] John wrote HR 25, which is the bill before Congress to implement the FairTax.

The FairTax rate is 23% figured on an inclusive basis, which is the same way the current income tax is figured. You also have to consider that all the "Embedded Taxes" which average 22% would disappear from the price of goods. This means the the retail price we would pay would go up very little, even with the 23% FairTax in place. The 23% was derived to make the FT revenue neutral, which means that the FT would provide the same revenue to the federal government that it currently receives from the taxes that would be eliminated. This was determined by a 22 million dollar study by the top economists in the country. This is more research than any taxing system has ever received.

The FT is also simple to understand and very transparent. The whole bill is only 132 pages long. Compare that to the current tax code which is hundreds of thousands of pages long, and is completely understood by no one, not even the IRS. All this verbiage makes the current system easy to manipulate by self-serving politicians to line their pockets and buy votes.