Help an Ar-15 noob

[Gene Hackman]

Howdy folks. I recently bought my first Ar15 a DPMS Oracle and shot it for the first time today. Put 200 flawless rounds of .223 through it. However it didn't come with any sights so I got a Red dot scope but the recoil makes the screws come loose and now the screw heads are stripped. So I want to get a carry handle rear sight and a front sight. I look on eb*y And there are several carry handles/rear sights for sale but not much for front sights. So what kind of front sight would I get and how can I be sure it is compatible? What other options are there for good quality budget optics?

[RRP]

Because of the modular design of the AR-15 platform, there are many options available. Everyone responding may offer a different solution. Pick the one that meets your needs and fits your budget.

One of the easiest solutions is to add flip-up sights to your optics-ready carbine. Mount the rear sight on the rear rail; the front sight on the gas block. Installation time: 2 minutes. Follow standard zeroing procedures to sight-in.

You can find sights here (https://www.google.com/search?q=ar-15+flip+up+sights&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8).

Get yourself some low-strength thread locker--Loctite purple or blue, for example. You may be able to salvage your red dot optic with some thread locker and use it in conjunction with flip-up back-up sights. When the optic's battery dies, flip up your back-up sights and keep on truckin'.

[CJB]

To the best of my knowledge.... limited as it is for all the wild mutations of AR's out there.... "I think" there are basically three types of front sights.

Fitting around barrels you have....
Original elevation - which work with uppers that have built in handles.
The "F marked" elevation for flat top uppers - which are taller by (from memory) .090 inches.

The only thing you need to worry about there is the barrel diameter at the gas port, which comes in (at least) four sizes, which follow the military evolution from pencil type barrel to HBAR to M4 type. Of the latter I seem to recall that like they do with upper extensions (where the stock fits) there is a military and commercial size that is not interchangable. And... memory serves that there are at least two HBAR sizes as well. Just measure the barrel at the "flat" where the gas port is... if you want a "fit on the barrel" sight.

Then there are sights that fit rails. To the best of my knowledge, almost all rail front sights are made to work with continuous rails as seen on full floating type fore end assemblies. There are also gas blocks with rails on them, and "usually" they're the same elevation as continuous rail, but, there are also gas blocks that have rails that allow rail type sights to work with uppers with carry handles. Same sight, just a gas block rail that's a little lower. I don't think there are any "F marked" rail type front sights.

Here's the basic recap. Uppers are two elevations above bore-line. Those are built in handle and rail. Rail is .090 (I think) taller. Carry handles you add to a rail, will be at rail elevation (even though its a handle, its not a built in handle, so its taller). Front sights can be on the barrel, on a full length tube, or on a gas block riser. On the barrel has two choices to match the upper. Those are standard and F type. Rail type sights - to fit full length tube or gas blocks are all the same. Gas block risers come in two sizes to fit built in handle or rail uppers.

Clear as mud!

Be careful with ebay sights..... the cheap rear sights are CHEAP. You'll see lots of slop, especially with windage. You'll see flip type rear apertures that are different in windage... they're really cheap. Not that you want match grade sights, but maybe.... something a little better than rock bottom.

Rear handles that fit on flat top railed uppers are almost useless, but maybe its my big hands. To get the rear aperture only .090 taller (so it fits with everything else on the rail) they had to make the window of the handle a lot smaller. The original AR-15 type handle isn't bad. The sighted handles are just not my cup of tea. Many of the cheap ones are not worth a damn anyway, fitted with crap sights.

And finally - I've been using and been really happy with the MagPul BUIS sights, front and rear. Plastic yes. A variation of the nylon/polymer stuff used for Kahr (or Glock, or Remington Nylon 66, etc etc). Tough, tight, they work. They take a beating and stay put, and ... not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either. Got a few sets. Sometimes you'll get a bit of flashing or such that you need to trim with an Xacto knife for smoothest flip up... not real big deal there.

Is there any way to save, refit your red dot? Lets get a shot of that DPMS too... pictures make things easier to understand

[ripley16]

I too recently bought a DPMS AR15. The gas block is lower than the receiver rail, therefore if you want iron sights on the gas block, you need to get a tall front sight. Depending on the type of front stock, you may or may not have rails there. DPMS sells both traditionally round and quad rail types. Changing to a quad rail, if not already installed, is easy but will cost a few bucks... as will the sights.

Before you go that route, you may want to invest in either or; some Lock-tite for the screws, or a new optic that has better attachment points.

Here's mine fresh from the box before I swapped out for a quad rail, but with a cheap optic I had added. Is this your model, a Oracle 15?
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Rifles/New_1_DSCF1972_zpstd8nwyhl.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/ripley16/media/Rifles/New_1_DSCF1972_zpstd8nwyhl.jpg.html)

That particular optic was about $60. Has several red or green reticle choices and a red laser. It proved easy to sight in and stayed put through my first range run.

[CPTKILLER]

A good place to start is http://www.laruetactical.com.

They have everything.

[b4uqzme]

...and now the screw heads are stripped...

new screws and some Loctite seems to be the simplest solution. Might save you enough for a good set of screwdrivers too. ;)

[ESAFO]

12724

this is my DPMS with a Strikefire II

[deadeye]

I have a DPMS with a UTG 3X9 scope. My scope came loose also so I used blue locktite on the bolts a year ago and haven't had a problem since. Love the gun.

[Gene Hackman]

To the best of my knowledge.... limited as it is for all the wild mutations of AR's out there.... "I think" there are basically three types of front sights.

Fitting around barrels you have....
Original elevation - which work with uppers that have built in handles.
The "F marked" elevation for flat top uppers - which are taller by (from memory) .090 inches.

The only thing you need to worry about there is the barrel diameter at the gas port, which comes in (at least) four sizes, which follow the military evolution from pencil type barrel to HBAR to M4 type. Of the latter I seem to recall that like they do with upper extensions (where the stock fits) there is a military and commercial size that is not interchangable. And... memory serves that there are at least two HBAR sizes as well. Just measure the barrel at the "flat" where the gas port is... if you want a "fit on the barrel" sight.

Then there are sights that fit rails. To the best of my knowledge, almost all rail front sights are made to work with continuous rails as seen on full floating type fore end assemblies. There are also gas blocks with rails on them, and "usually" they're the same elevation as continuous rail, but, there are also gas blocks that have rails that allow rail type sights to work with uppers with carry handles. Same sight, just a gas block rail that's a little lower. I don't think there are any "F marked" rail type front sights.

Here's the basic recap. Uppers are two elevations above bore-line. Those are built in handle and rail. Rail is .090 (I think) taller. Carry handles you add to a rail, will be at rail elevation (even though its a handle, its not a built in handle, so its taller). Front sights can be on the barrel, on a full length tube, or on a gas block riser. On the barrel has two choices to match the upper. Those are standard and F type. Rail type sights - to fit full length tube or gas blocks are all the same. Gas block risers come in two sizes to fit built in handle or rail uppers.

Clear as mud!

Be careful with ebay sights..... the cheap rear sights are CHEAP. You'll see lots of slop, especially with windage. You'll see flip type rear apertures that are different in windage... they're really cheap. Not that you want match grade sights, but maybe.... something a little better than rock bottom.

Rear handles that fit on flat top railed uppers are almost useless, but maybe its my big hands. To get the rear aperture only .090 taller (so it fits with everything else on the rail) they had to make the window of the handle a lot smaller. The original AR-15 type handle isn't bad. The sighted handles are just not my cup of tea. Many of the cheap ones are not worth a damn anyway, fitted with crap sights.

And finally - I've been using and been really happy with the MagPul BUIS sights, front and rear. Plastic yes. A variation of the nylon/polymer stuff used for Kahr (or Glock, or Remington Nylon 66, etc etc). Tough, tight, they work. They take a beating and stay put, and ... not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either. Got a few sets. Sometimes you'll get a bit of flashing or such that you need to trim with an Xacto knife for smoothest flip up... not real big deal there.

Is there any way to save, refit your red dot? Lets get a shot of that DPMS too... pictures make things easier to understand

So mine has a long flat top rail and a much shorter rail towards the front. I don't see how I could put flip up sights on it in addition to my scope because the scope takes up most of the rail and if I had a sight behind it the scope would block the view. I'll attach a photo. And yes I bought new screws and used loctite but I won't know if it will hold up until I shoot it again. Basically, I guess I just want a decent sight system that is reliable and doesn't cost a whole lot.

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150629_043607_zpsxxyxwhyi.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150629_043607_zpsxxyxwhyi.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150629_043548_zpsibzcemyc.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150629_043548_zpsibzcemyc.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150629_043535_zpsvyombv3j.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150629_043535_zpsvyombv3j.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150629_043515_zpsuyorgehu.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150629_043515_zpsuyorgehu.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150629_043451_zpsbppkee3s.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150629_043451_zpsbppkee3s.jpg.html)

[ripley16]

By moving your scope a few spots forward, you can attach a flip-up sight on the rear of the rail. It will ride over the charging handle. There are tall front sights, also flip-up if you choose, that will attach to the gas block. Flip-up sights may even co-witness with your scope.

[Gene Hackman]

So I ended up getting a carry handle with rear sight and a truglo front sight. The truglo sight is ugly as hell but I don't know. Do you think it will work well with the carry handle rear sight? I will post a link to the truglo sight and a pic of my ar. Thanks guys.

https://www.truglo.com/firearms-tactical/fiber-optic-ar15-style-front-gas-block-sight.asp?catid=85782AB719C042A394366B7DDEB2FF93

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150630_015044_zpsvyodt4js.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150630_015044_zpsvyodt4js.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/Message_1435635156512_zpsveckdvth.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/Message_1435635156512_zpsveckdvth.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/Message_1435631138300_zpsbx9hi04b.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/Message_1435631138300_zpsbx9hi04b.jpg.html)

[RRP]

The truglo sight is ugly as hell but I don't know.

No argument from me.

[Bawanna]

Yeah, that's way too ugly. It's gotta go dude.

I know it was discussed earlier but I don't know why a set of Mag Pul flip up's wouldn't work. Even though it's not a continuous rail, they should be the same plane or very close.

I just helped install a free floating long foreend on a carbine and it really wasn't that hard. I don't think there's any need to go there yet to get this thing shooting where it looks.

[Armybrat]

It shouldn't be hard if it already has the lowered gas block thingamajig.
Both my ARs (S&W Sport & Colt LE6920) have the tall A2 front sights & MagPul folding rear. Those front ones would be a chore to cut down for a free floater.

[Bawanna]

Just a couple of roll pins and they slide right off, well take a bit of tapping but not hard.

[Gene Hackman]

Now I've gone with a different red dot scope I bought today and will probably get some backup flip up sights. But, I think the gas block rail is a little lower than the receiver rail. Is that going to be a problem with the back up sights?

[Gene Hackman]

Yeah. How can I do this with my scope and backup sights? new scope sits very close to rail I think the mount is only a half inch or so. And my gas block rail sits lower than my receiver rail. Heres a pic.
http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150701_005728_zpsuw77a5fl.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150701_005728_zpsuw77a5fl.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150701_005714_zpsrlnrbfsv.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150701_005714_zpsrlnrbfsv.jpg.html)

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag273/Dano1987/20150701_005701_zpslesasdms.jpg (http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Dano1987/media/20150701_005701_zpslesasdms.jpg.html)

[Bawanna]

You can move the optic 2 more notches forward to make room for the rear flip up if necessary.
I'm stymied by the front gas block being lower, that don't make no sense at all.

[BEARDOG]

Looks like you may need a riser under that RDS(red dot sight) if it is too low to use comfortably, and if you want to co-witness(line up with) with your BUIS (back up iron sights)

For your sights,You need to use a taller "gas block height" front sight in order to bring the front sight up to the same height as the upper receiver rail mounted rear sight.

Here are some from Midwest Ind.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=79

Here are some front and rear sets.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=361

That gun was really designed to be "optics ready" (no front or rear iron sight included) with a RDS or scope to be added later.
And with that lower height gas block rail you may have enough room to clear/ install a free float rail handguard depending on ID of the rail.
A lot of people would not even put BUIS on it relying on the RDS or scope alone.

My personal preference on my SHTF - go to AR is to have both an Aimpoint PRO RDS and BUIS (standard A2 front sight, and a Magpul Mbus rear). My Aimpoint sits much higher then that sight you have and co-witnesses perfectly with my front sight post, the dot sits right on top of it.

[Gene Hackman]

Looks like you may need a riser under that RDS(red dot sight) if it is too low to use comfortably, and if you want to co-witness(line up with) with your BUIS (back up iron sights)

For your sights,You need to use a taller "gas block height" front sight in order to bring the front sight up to the same height as the upper receiver rail mounted rear sight.

Here are some from Midwest Ind.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=79

Here are some front and rear sets.
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=361

That gun was really designed to be "optics ready" (no front or rear iron sight included) with a RDS or scope to be added later.
And with that lower height gas block rail you may have enough room to clear/ install a free float rail handguard depending on ID of the rail.
A lot of people would not even put BUIS on it relying on the RDS or scope alone.

My personal preference on my SHTF - go to AR is to have both an Aimpoint PRO RDS and BUIS (standard A2 front sight, and a Magpul Mbus rear). My Aimpoint sits much higher then that sight you have and co-witnesses perfectly with my front sight post, the dot sits right on top of it.
What kind of riser would I need for this scope? Thx for the help

[BEARDOG]

What kind of riser would I need for this scope? Thx for the help

I am not sure? You will have to do some measuring to figure out what will fit with that RDS. Also decide what type of co-witness(height of RDS mount) do you want? Absolute(dot lines up with iron sights) or Lower 1/3(dot sits above irons so you have more clear view)

A little google-fu of that # shown on the side tells me that RDS is a Centerpoint Tactical from Walmart? If so, I wouldn't spend a lot on risers/mounts for it.
Here is a UTG at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Medium-Profile-Riser-Mount/dp/B003TX2BD4/ref=pd_bxgy_sg_text_y

But you need to know the measurments of your RDS, and the mounts to figure out what will fit. Scroll down and look at the other many risers that are listed on there and try to pick one that work.


That said, IMHO...
If I wanted a low cost RDS for on an AR I would be looking at Primary Arms optics. They are generally regarded as low cost, but good quality.

And you won't have to play guessing games as to which mount/riser to use. As they already have the proper ones listed with the optics, you just pick the cowitness you want and add it to the order/cart.

They also have very good customer service as well. They will be able to answer any questions you would have about optics,mounts, etc.
Here are their brand RDS. they also have other brand optics and lots more!
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_s/586.htm

[KingWulfgar]

That said, IMHO...
If I wanted a low cost RDS for on an AR I would be looking at Primary Arms optics. They are generally regarded as low cost, but good quality.

And you won't have to play guessing games as to which mount/riser to use. As they already have the proper ones listed with the optics, you just pick the cowitness you want and add it to the order/cart.

They also have very good customer service as well. They will be able to answer any questions you would have about optics,mounts, etc.
Here are their brand RDS. they also have other brand optics and lots more!
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_s/586.htm

+1 on Primary Arms. They have some of the best customer service I've ever seen. I have a PA microdot and love it. Plus, you can get an inexpensive mount (I got a QD mount for mine) right along with it through easy to choose options. I went with lower 1/3 cowitness. The RDS sits higher, but I have a front sight base (FSB) on mine and it doesn't flip down. If I had a gas-block mounted sight, I would've totally gotten a set of flip-up sights (BUIS) and an absolute cowitness mount.

One thing I didn't see mentioned anywhere else. If you do go with a flip-up sight, get a metal one. The polymer-based ones like the cheaper Magpul sight are great, but not meant to absorb the heat from the gas block. They will melt. The Magpul pro line is really nice.