Pm/P9 worth buying now or wait for the Gen 2's?

[GA_Sheepdog]

Last week I went to the range with my wife. We shot my cw380 as well as a Glock 26 and 43, which a co-worker let me borrow. I really liked the 26 and the 43 was pretty good other then the trigger being a little heavier then I'm used to. Between the three I shot the kahr the best but we were only shooting from 7 to 10 yards away. I was more accurate with the kahr but I've also shot the kahr a lot more. This was the first time shooting a 26 or 43, however my 19 the best shooting pistol I own.


I was really trying to get a feel for the 43 and also wanted to see how my wife liked the guns. She wants to get a ccw soon. I also brought a .38 revolver, which she took one shot from and immediately put back down. She fell in love with the cw380 but is unable to pull the stiff slide back. I think with practice and technique she should be able to get it down. I was thinking of letting her carry cw, which gives me an excuse to get another gun lol.


I don't think I'd really care for the 43. It's a nice gun and operates the same as my 19 and duty weapon but I just can't get away from the Kahrs when it comes to single stack handguns. Should I wait for the Gen 2's to come out or get a pm/p9 before they are released? I love the c series but I've always told myself if I get another kahr it will be a p series.

[kenemoore]

I would take my wife to a range that rents CM/PM9's, let her shoot it, see how she handles the slide, see if she like it. The slide should be a bit easier, and should be easier to shoot too. If she likes it, buy her the PM9, don't wait. When the gen-2 comes out buy one for yourself, don't let her shoot it, only way to ensure it stays yours.

[GA_Sheepdog]

I would take my wife to a range that rents CM/PM9's, let her shoot it, see how she handles the slide, see if she like it. The slide should be a bit easier, and should be easier to shoot too. If she likes it, buy her the PM9, don't wait. When the gen-2 comes out buy one for yourself, don't let her shoot it, only way to ensure it stays yours.


I think the slide on a cw/pm9 would still be stiff. It's a trait of kahr, although I believe the 380's are the worse.

[muggsy]

The Gen 2 is not a carry gun. It's a full race comp. gun and not something that you would be likely to carry.

[GA_Sheepdog]

The Gen 2 is not a carry gun. It's a full race comp. gun and not something that you would be likely to carry.


Really? I thought it was only certain models that were the race gun. Isn't the P9 coming out in the Gen 2 form?

[GA_Sheepdog]

What about a Tuarus TCP 380. I'm not a huge fan of Tuarus but I've seen some pretty good reviews on it. Does anyone have any experience with it? Would the slide be easier to rack then a kahr?

[CJB]

__ allow a moment for instructor mode to boot__

Ok...!

GA_Sheepdog, I've taught literally 1000's of ladies how to shoot, when I was doing instruction thrice weekly for my local range. The big issue for ladies is always finger/hand/arm strength and manual dexterity.

Ladies are "capable" of developing the strength and dexerity. It will take determined effort on their part. Lack of enough strength to manipulate a pistol, or lack of manual dexterity is not a by-product of being female, but it is a by-product of being female in much of America. Its cultrual.

But facts are as they are. Ladies generally don't have the strength nor dexterity to make an autoloading pistol work.

Well beyond the "can I load it and made it fire" problem, is the more important "can I UNLOAD it and MAKE IT SAFE" issue.

If the shooter cannot manipulate the slide and or safety and or hammer and or... whatever, then they cannot safely use the pistol. Sorry, but thats the bottom line.

Revolvers have their own bugbrear. Namely, can the shooter safely lower the hammer of a cocked revolver? If they cannot, then... they must have a hammerless (concealed hammer) revolver.

I know your pain. I always taught my lady students the issues involved. Then... you add in fingernails, tender skin, etc. In my way of thinking, the old Beretta tip up barrel 380 was the safe bet for ladies. Push the button, make it easy to load, unload and its instantly safe. Ditto for the .22 and .25 caliber varients. For revolver, unless they can control a cocked hammer, its hammerless. Push the button, swing out cylinder. Its safe, instantly, and ready to load or unload.

Cool factor and sex appeal of any pistol aside, safety is still the #1 concern.

[Bawanna]

I think GA Sheepdog recognizes all those issues you mention and has accepted them.

I maintain that if a woman or even in some cases girlymen really want to run a difficult slide they can learn to do it.

It's a lot about technique and just plain desire to make it work.

Another issue unmentioned is can they do it while staring the elephant in the eye. I think man big strong men will and have fallen to pieces when the adrenaline dump happens.

The revolver issue is indeed a very real condition. My wifes Smith 638 has a pretty stiff hammer and with the shroud not a lot to get hold of. Fortunately unlike me she never cocks the hammer. I on the other hand if a gun has a hammer I'll pull it everytime if it isn't already pulled. It take great effort and concentration to lower her hammer.

Jfootin who hasn't been around for awhile had his hammer added to a bit and the frame milled away a bit to make the hammer still pretty shrouded but a bit more prominent to help with this issue.

Where's our big deal girl Lori, she should have some good input on this.

[CJB]

Colonel, never was it more aparant to me....regarding decocking the revolver's hammer.... than one time at the range where an incident was avoided.

An older gal calls up. She turns out to be about 75ish. Her hubby died a while back, and he had a handgun, and she wants to make sure its ok before she disposes of it. Can she bring it in so we can check it out for her. Sure, ma'am, we're open till 10pm.

So...she says great, she doesn't drive any more, so she'll have to call cab.

Right around early evening (when it was slow in the range), she came in with the gun in medium sized paper bag. She pulled it out, and I'm really glad she didn't point it at me or anyone else. It was an older S&W revolver (model 10HB as I recall) and it was loaded and the hammer was back.

I grabbed it from her, made it safe. What do you tell an old lady? I told her "lets keep the ammo out of the gun, so it stays safe". She agreed. In my head.... I'm thinkin'.... if that cabbie had hit the RR tracks about 5mph faster we'd have been hearin' about it on the news. Jeeze Leweeze!

[b4uqzme]

Really? I thought it was only certain models that were the race gun. Isn't the P9 coming out in the Gen 2 form?

I believe you are correct Sheepdog. I'm not sure it is worth waiting for tho. I'll admit that I'm a big C/CM fan.
http://www.kahr.com/gen2-premium.asp

[Linthead]

I would take my wife to a range that rents CM/PM9's, let her shoot it, see how she handles the slide, see if she like it. The slide should be a bit easier, and should be easier to shoot too. If she likes it, buy her the PM9, don't wait. When the gen-2 comes out buy one for yourself, don't let her shoot it, only way to ensure it stays yours.


My CM9 takes considerably more force to rack than my P380.

No surprise there; other things being equal (they seldom are), the recoil springs on a 9mm have to absorb about 50% more energy than the recoil springs on a 380.

Just my experience and opinion, YMMV.

[berettabone]

I have been through all of this with my wife................the safety, the mechanics, the loading, the unloading, the cleaning, the shooting, the comfort. It's been about a 2 year process. She has no problem shooting any caliber. She just doesn't have the hand strength for a semi auto. We settled on an SP101, and she loves it. No problem dropping the hammer. No issues with anything else, and the plus is, she shoots it well. Spring changes and polishing have made it very comfortable for her. Now, we start the carrying process........................................... ..........................

[wyntrout]

No pocket pistol!
Gen 2 TP45:

http://www.kahr.com/images/whatsnew/news-GEN2.jpg

http://www.kahr.com/kahr-news.asp

[Alfonse]

No pocket pistol!


http://www.kahr.com/kahr-news.asp

It wouldn't fit in my pocket, but maybe somebody has big pockets. They might identify with a kangaroo or something...

[GA_Sheepdog]

Thank you all for the replies. And yes, I am aware the only true carry pistol coming out in the Gen 2 line is the p9. I'm not too thrilled with the accessory rail, as if have no need for a light on a carry pistol as small as the p9 but I'm interested in the updated trigger.

My wife can shoot just about any hand gun but it's racking the slide that she has a problem will. I don't think even a cm9 would be that much easier. We where at Dick's sporting goods a couple of months ago. I was talking to the guy behind the counter, who didn't really have a clue about guns. He did however take a kimber 380 out from the display case and gave it to her. She was able to rack the slide back with ease. I asked him how much and he said $800.00. I chuckled a little and had him put it back. It's not that my wife's not worth a $800.00 pistol, it's just I'm still not sure she would even carry it on a daily basis or like shooting a 1911. Plus I'm not sure how reliable a micro 380 1911 is.

[DansGunBlog]

Last week I went to the range with my wife. We shot my cw380 as well as a Glock 26 and 43, which a co-worker let me borrow. I really liked the 26 and the 43 was pretty good other then the trigger being a little heavier then I'm used to. Between the three I shot the kahr the best but we were only shooting from 7 to 10 yards away. I was more accurate with the kahr but I've also shot the kahr a lot more. This was the first time shooting a 26 or 43, however my 19 the best shooting pistol I own.

I was really trying to get a feel for the 43 and also wanted to see how my wife liked the guns. She wants to get a ccw soon. I also brought a .38 revolver, which she took one shot from and immediately put back down. She fell in love with the cw380 but is unable to pull the stiff slide back. I think with practice and technique she should be able to get it down. I was thinking of letting her carry cw, which gives me an excuse to get another gun lol.

I don't think I'd really care for the 43. It's a nice gun and operates the same as my 19 and duty weapon but I just can't get away from the Kahrs when it comes to single stack handguns. Should I wait for the Gen 2's to come out or get a pm/p9 before they are released? I love the c series but I've always told myself if I get another kahr it will be a p series.

@GA_Sheepdog Yep, love the G19, excellent shooting and rock solid firearm.

For your wife, have you considered the G42? it's a little smaller than the G43, easy slide manipulation, very soft shooter. actually Glock seems to have targeted that one to women in all their media materials, commercials, etc... it's all about a woman carrying a G42.

It's not as small as the cw380 (actually pretty much identical in size to a PM9), but that may be a good thing... unless she's specifically looking for a "pocket sized" pistol (and willing to deal with the tradeoffs therein), the G42 could be a fit and easier for her to fire and manipulate.

I've known quite a few girls who do great with the G19 too, but it's gotta feel right to her.

If she's not fired a G42 yet, may be worth going by a range that has one for rent.

Dan