IDPA & Kahrs?

[aray]

What do folks know about the IDPA? I got interested in trying this out after reading one of Ayoob's books since it seemed to be oriented to "practical" self defense shooting techniques and equipment. Looks like a lot of fun too.

But I've never been to a match. What do folks here think?

Also, would my CW9 (with extra magazines) be appropriate for an IDPA event? Or would the small magazine capacity (7+1) be too much of an obstacle, forcing me to go with one of my Beretta 92Fs and a 15+1 capacity configuration?

Thanks.

[Mudinyeri]

I don't shoot IDPA but I'm fairly familiar with it.

Changing magazines is usually part of the competition so six-round magazine capacity will only hurt you in certain matches. The long trigger and reset will probably hurt you more.

The 92FS would be an excellent gun to start out with. Just make sure you get good quality magazines for it.

[at_liberty]

What do folks know about the IDPA? I got interested in trying this out after reading one of Ayoob's books since it seemed to be oriented to "practical" self defense shooting techniques and equipment. Looks like a lot of fun too.

But I've never been to a match. What do folks here think?

Also, would my CW9 (with extra magazines) be appropriate for an IDPA event? Or would the small magazine capacity (7+1) be too much of an obstacle, forcing me to go with one of my Beretta 92Fs and a 15+1 capacity configuration?

Thanks.

10+1 is the limit in ESP class but you don't have to load to capacity. 9 rounds like the stock 1911 9mm guns is still competitive. Shoot whatever you have. Enter the Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) class, take your time, and hit your targets. Worry about getting better rather than being competitive. You should find a lot of support for new shooters. You can figure out what gun will work best later, but your Beretta is where you should start in my opinion.

Check the IDPA website (http://www.idpa.com/menu.htm)

[OldLincoln]

I visited a match and saw the exercises they do. I believe it can be what you make of it. If you are really and want competition you can get setup for it. If you want to learn the moves and practice just for self defense you can do that also.

They had a beginners group set up at the left side of the range and were teaching them the drills and practice. This is what attracted me as I doubt I could be competitive.

But, if I somehow became pretty good I'd give it a shot - WITH my EDC gun and holster. My purpose is to win IF I ever have to use it for SD. My gain from IDPA would be knowledge and confidence in my new skills.

BTW: about half of the participants in the match I saw are active and retired LEOs who have been doing this stuff awhile. They were very friendly and not condescending so I think for what I want it would be good.

[aray]

If you want to learn the moves and practice just for self defense you can do that also. ...

They had a beginners group set up at the left side of the range and were teaching them the drills and practice. This is what attracted me as I doubt I could be competitive.

But, if I somehow became pretty good I'd give it a shot - WITH my EDC gun and holster. My purpose is to win IF I ever have to use it for SD. My gain from IDPA would be knowledge and confidence in my new skills.

Yeah, that's sorta what I'm thinking too. I actually have some natural shooting talent, but by the same token I'm not ex-LEO or ex-military so I'm under no illusions I could ever run with the big dogs. I'm just looking to: a) improve my SD skills and b) have fun.

But on the other hand I only have two 7 round magazines and one 8 round magazine for my CW9. I was just wondering if I had an event that required more than 22+1 shots to be fired, I'd have to reload, and if that would so kill the event that it wouldn't be worth the effort. In that case, I'd have to bring my Beretta 92F (with its larger magazines) which is sorta not consistent with the theme above, since the CW9 is my normal carry weapon.

[OldLincoln]

Wonder if you can use a BUG? That should be allowed because if you never practice it how will you use it? I know they require some drills using strong and weak hands so why not a BUG?

[Tack]

Aray
I'm a IDPA Safety Officer and VP of our local club, so hopefully I can answer some of your questions. Your CW9 would allow you to shoot in Stock Service Pistol (SSP) Division. Division Capacity of SSP is 10 in the magazine with 1 in the chamber when you start the COF. You would need to use all one capacity magazine in a match. So you would need to use all 7 or 8 round mags, not a mixture of both. You can't use extended mags in IDPA. I wouldn't shoot in ESP with your CW9. That Division is 9mm 1911's etc. If you shot your 92F you could shoot SSP, but would load your 15 rd. mags with 10 rds only, plus 1 in the chamber at the start of the COF. You only compete against people in your Division and Classification. IDPA is designed for the use of carry guns and carry gear. While some folks try to game it up, but still stay legal, I have alot more respect for those who adhere to the spirit of the game. It is alot of fun, and you can get alot out of it. Mostly practice of skills that you can't do at the majority of ranges. Check out IDPA.com for the rules etc. Hope this helps.

[skychief12]

[QUOTE=Mudinyeri;29215]I don't shoot IDPA but I'm fairly familiar with it.

"The long trigger and reset will probably hurt you more."

If this is a true statement (I think it is), would that also apply to a actual gun fight?

I ride a Harley with t-shirt and jeans most days. I find my CW40 IWB works as good as anything I can come up with. But the above is a concern.

Being a long time 1911 .45 guy and packed a .45 grease-gun in Vietnam. My perfect world is to carry my Kimber 100%. I can get my Kimber down to EMP size (width). The barrel length is not much of a issue (IWB). 34oz loaded has you sagging by EOD, not to mention bumpy. Did I mention it's going to be 100 degrees again this week here in the great state of Texas?

Hope someone comes up with something like the Sig 238 and in something bigger than 9mm. Sorry guys I'm coming from .45 down not .380 upward.

Back to the point, IDPA is a great way to go and your smart sticking to your carry gun. Long trigger and reset is want you'll be dealing with in the real deal. So learn to LIVE with it (pardon the bun).

[OldLincoln]

Hey Tack, nice to have an expert answer the questions. How about using a BUG in drills? Unlike mag changes, how many practice going to the back up in a fire fight?

[recoilguy]

10+1 is the limit in ESP class but you don't have to load to capacity. 9 rounds like the stock 1911 9mm guns is still competitive. Shoot whatever you have. Enter the Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) class, take your time, and hit your targets. Worry about getting better rather than being competitive. You should find a lot of support for new shooters. You can figure out what gun will work best later, but your Beretta is where you should start in my opinion.

Check the IDPA website (http://www.idpa.com/menu.htm)

Some good advice, except I would say compete with the CW9 in stock service catogory. If you get better each week faster will eventually happen. New guys do get alot of support, it is fun and you meet some great people who enjoy shooting as well.

The berreta would only allow 10 in the mag even though it can hold 15, I think Berreta mags would be easier to come by, I might be wrong but I think it is so.

RCG

[Mudinyeri]

[QUOTE=Mudinyeri;29215]I don't shoot IDPA but I'm fairly familiar with it.

"The long trigger and reset will probably hurt you more."

If this is a true statement (I think it is), would that also apply to a actual gun fight?

I ride a Harley with t-shirt and jeans most days. I find my CW40 IWB works as good as anything I can come up with. But the above is a concern.

Being a long time 1911 .45 guy and packed a .45 grease-gun in Vietnam. My perfect world is to carry my Kimber 100%. I can get my Kimber down to EMP size (width). The barrel length is not much of a issue (IWB). 34oz loaded has you sagging by EOD, not to mention bumpy. Did I mention it's going to be 100 degrees again this week here in the great state of Texas?

Hope someone comes up with something like the Sig 238 and in something bigger than 9mm. Sorry guys I'm coming from .45 down not .380 upward.

Back to the point, IDPA is a great way to go and your smart sticking to your carry gun. Long trigger and reset is want you'll be dealing with in the real deal. So learn to LIVE with it (pardon the bun).

I certainly hope no gunfight in which I am involved lasts as many rounds as an IDPA stage. :eek:

With that said, in a gun-fight you're fighting another person - potentially with their own gun - not the clock. Personally, I feel perfectly comfortable being able to defend myself against the average hoodlum using my CW40. I practice, practice, practice. I'm betting (my life) that the hoodlum doesn't.

Sorry, OP, for the off-topic post.

[Tack]

Hey Tack, nice to have an expert answer the questions. How about using a BUG in drills? Unlike mag changes, how many practice going to the back up in a fire fight?


OldLincoln
"Expert" You're too kind.

Bug matches are a side match in IDPA if the club holds them. In regular IDPA matches your required to wear one firearm only. In a Bug match your limited to loading 5 rounds so both pistols and revolvers are on a level playing field. No reloads are allowed on the clock either.

Our club has never held a Bug match, but I'm considering doing one now if we have the interest.

[RichN]

It depends on what you want out of IDPA. If you want to win matches, then a Kahr is not your best choice. If you carry a Kahr and you want to get better with what you shoot, then it is fine.

I frequently shoot my MK40 in IDPA. Some stages require 18 shots, so I use a total of three six round magazines. You can only use three magazines in a match, and they must all be the same size. I use my five rounder as a "Barney mag" to load the chamber and then switch to the six rounders for a total of 19 shots. If I miss more than one shot on a course requiring 18 rounds then I will run out of ammo and have to take the misses on my score, but I'm mainly there to gain proficiency with my weapon. If that is also your main goal, then bring your Kahr and have fun.

If you have more than one club in your area, check them all out. Different clubs have a different feel to them. One club in my area requires at least 16 rounds on almost every stage. Another one usually only has one or two stages that big and a few requiring 6 or less. Some clubs can afford moving targets and at some everything is stationary. You might decide you like one more than the other or you might get really hooked and find yourself at a different club every weekend. I'm currently up to two per month. I usually shoot my MK40 at the club with smaller stages and my Sig P229 at the club with larger stages.


I hope this helps.

[RichN]

Aray
I'm a IDPA Safety Officer and VP of our local club, so hopefully I can answer some of your questions.... You can't use extended mags in IDPA. ...

The new rules clarifications allow you to use extended mags as long as all of your mags are the same and the gun fits in "the box" with the mags inserted. I use the six round magazines with my MK40 all of the time.

[Tilos]

OOPs WRONG thread

[dfloresjr]

I say shoot the Kahr. I shot my first IDPA match 2 mos. ago and used my Sig P226, since it was my LEO gun and I had all the necessary equipment. I intend to start using my CW9, but I will buy a few more 8 round mags first. On most of the stages that I shot, I didn't use the full capacity for the stage anyway. If you want to shoot for score, then another gun might be better. If you are shooting for fun and for valuable training and range experience with your carry gun, use the Kahr.

[Old Salt]

What do folks know about the IDPA? I got interested in trying this out after reading one of Ayoob's books since it seemed to be oriented to "practical" self defense shooting techniques and equipment. Looks like a lot of fun too.

But I've never been to a match. What do folks here think?

Also, would my CW9 (with extra magazines) be appropriate for an IDPA event? Or would the small magazine capacity (7+1) be too much of an obstacle, forcing me to go with one of my Beretta 92Fs and a 15+1 capacity configuration?

Thanks.

You will have no trouble shooting IDPA with your CW9. There are many 7+1, 1911's shooting IDPA, you will however need extra magazines. Most shooters have three, one in the gun and two more on their belt or in their pocket. If you have never shot IDPA go to a match and just watch how they shoot the different stations. Don’t worry about time, safety is number one, good hits number two and last and for a lot of shooters less important, is time. As far as follow up shots,I’m sure your CW9 will shoot as fast as you can get back on target and pull the trigger. I’ve seem many shooters using revolvers and they do pritty good. Shooting IDPA gives you a different feel than just standing in one spot punching holes in targets.

[JohnR]

I fully intend to use my K9 for IDPA. The mag capacity is only one less than a 1911, which people seem to use for matches without batting an eye. What I want out of it is to be the best I can be with my EDC, so I think it's going to be great. Only been to one classifier so far, though.

[Just One Shot]

10+1 is the limit in ESP class but you don't have to load to capacity. 9 rounds like the stock 1911 9mm guns is still competitive. Shoot whatever you have. Enter the Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) class, take your time, and hit your targets. Worry about getting better rather than being competitive. You should find a lot of support for new shooters. You can figure out what gun will work best later, but your Beretta is where you should start in my opinion.

Check the IDPA website (http://www.idpa.com/menu.htm)
Linky no worky.

:laser: :4:

[REACT]

http://www.idpa.com/

[mad1ben2]

I entered my first IDPA match last November. It was so valuable for me simply because it introduced me to something much, much different than punching paper at my indoor range.

I approached it with the goal of gaining confidence in my ability to use my CCW for defense and not to see how fast I could complete a stage or where I ended up in my class.

In fact, now that my carry guns are Kahrs, I bought a TP9 to use in my future matches with the thoughts that the grip, sight picture, trigger pull, trigger reset, etc... are consistent across my carry guns (p380, p40, pm9).

The range I shot at does have 'BUG' matches once a month and I hope to enter one of those this spring... but the match I entered was a 6-stage IDPA event and I don't recall any stage requiring more than 18 rounds... most much less.

I found it great experience as the timer immediately got my blood pumping.. I learned techniques that I never learned shooting at paper in an indoor range where I can't even start with a holstered weapon... I shot out of vehicle windows, I shot through car windows, I shot around obstacles and victims... it gave me much more confidence in my abilities and made shooting so much more fun... sorry... I'm rambling now... highly recommend IDPA with your carry weapon!

[jocko]

sounds like alot of fun to.... what wasnormally the maximum distance. as I can'thit jack sh-t with my PM9 past 10 yards, probably more so even in a stress situation. I don't get in anout of cars like I used to so I would need a vehicle with door and entry about the size of a rolls royce or bently???

[mad1ben2]

ha! that's funny...

The longest shots were roughly 15-20 yards (may have been a bit closer, I never stepped it off). In one stage we sat in the back seat of a minivan. Butt had to start with both cheeks on the seat and your back against the seat back. Once the buzzer sounded you could slide forward as long as one cheek stayed on the seat. We shot through the open side door of the minivan at 5-6 bad guys (some close, some far, one in an adjacent car, and one holding a victim hostage behind car). Once those were shot we then adjusted to shoot out the open back hatch, over the seat back, at a bad guy behind a barrel.

It was definitely a ton of fun... a definite confidence builder and light-years more fun that punching paper in an indoor range lane... IMHO.

[garyb]

Good Thread! Good input. I plan to shoot IDPA this year with my PM40. I've been to a local IDPA match with a long time martial arts buddy who is in law enforcement (top gun) and master instructor. He has always been a competitor. We were in different weight divisions in tournaments, but we trained hard together. Good guy and a b@!! buster. He had been dying to out shoot me in IDPA for years. This year he is getting his wish. Be careful what you ask for.

I am guessing that the smaller, local IDPA type shoots are all different. The IDPA shoot I attended had a max of 18 rounds at a station, with the longest shot being 25 yrds. Lots of double taps, and triple taps, movement during shots, changing angles, one handed, weak handed, etc... Alot of what is kind of unnatural stuff, but good practice. The situations vary with each shoot. I spoke to the club president and he encouraged me to shoot my PM40 and if for some reason I did not meet a certain standard, I could still shoot until I made the necessary adjustments. They are all there to help new guys. Everyone is very helpful and take their time to show you how to sort things out. My buddy told me that it is all about gun control and having fun (but he wants to beat me). He loves to shoot his 40 against the 9's...haha. He told me to get a waist holster; 3-4 of the 6 round mags with mag pouches; a vest, shooting glasses and ear protection, 100-200 rounds (depending on how many times I want to shoot the course) and a shooting bag...then just show up and have a good time. Alot of teasing and fun.

I agree that my PM40 MAY put me at a disadvantage for a couple of reasons, at least "at first", but the purpose is to get good practice while having fun. The 40 is one challenge that I feel I am quick to overcome. The size of the gun is another challenge. The number or rounds in a small single stack is another that will cause me to lose time with mag changes. I am already practicing for that with dry fire. I am a viscious competitor and my feeling is that even if I don't shoot good scores "at first" and even though the PM40 is not tricked up to be a top IDPA choic;, I will learn, adapt and become better and better with my carry weapon. It is about improvement and enjoyment. However, the reality is...I will adapt and I plan to beat my buddy with my pocket gun....haha. Seriously, I want to have fun and get better with every match. I have no real expectations beyond that. Improvment will make it fun.

Again, good thread and thanks for posting it.

[jocko]

ha! that's funny...

The longest shots were roughly 15-20 yards (may have been a bit closer, I never stepped it off). In one stage we sat in the back seat of a minivan. Butt had to start with both cheeks on the seat and your back against the seat back. Once the buzzer sounded you could slide forward as long as one cheek stayed on the seat. We shot through the open side door of the minivan at 5-6 bad guys (some close, some far, one in an adjacent car, and one holding a victim hostage behind car). Once those were shot we then adjusted to shoot out the open back hatch, over the seat back, at a bad guy behind a barrel.

It was definitely a ton of fun... a definite confidence builder and light-years more fun that punching paper in an indoor range lane... IMHO.

u basically shoot a cours elike your talkingabout without a timer person with you, more less just taking your time and no pressures to do anything but hit the target. Sounds like fun but for me I guess at first I would like to shoot the course numerous times just me, myself and I with no pressures except mayb ehitting a civilian in the target..

[mad1ben2]

The only event I went to did not allow any practice shooting at all... the range only became 'live' when the competetion started and each stage was explained just before shooting began. We were instructed exactly how to shoot the stage... which targets to hit first, second, third, etc.. as well as how many rounds to shoot at each target and whether they were to the center of mass or head shots (or both).

Also, I don't currently belong to an outdoor range (the closest is over an hour from my house). However, I imagine that if you do have access to an outdoor range that also holds these types of matches you certainly could set up your own practice courses and shoot them as much as you'd like...

Others with more IDPA/USPSA experience can certainly chime in, but I'd assume practicing outside an actual competetion would be readily available if you have access to the range.

[garyb]

The IDPA competition event I observed was a timedcompetition and did not allow individual practice without a range officer. Each station had a designated range officer at all times and this individual gave specific commands and instructions to the shooters at that station who were timed. However, I did note that a shooter could reshoot the course for score and simply call it a practice round. The practice shooter was timed and but his score did not count. Otherwise everything was for official competition scoring and was timed. This IDPA shoot was held at a local outside club and I'd imgine that individual members were permitted to practice on their own when the outdoor range was open....timing this would be optional and at the discretion of the member(s) practicing on their own.

The IDPA shooting events really are great practice for gun control because of the varying situations and simulations; shooting form requirements (single hand, strong hand, weak hand, two hand); barriers and concealment issues, practicing draw and holstering; dealing with jams, reloading mags, etc; and being timed puts on some added pressure. Shooting in these events help to improve your shooting speed and accuracy as well as gun control. Safety is a big thing. I am told that the main weakness with IDPA's score system is that it is weighted more on speed than on accuracy and although the intention is to balance accuracy with speed, you are better off to sacrifice some accuracy to keep your times short.