Scary... had my first jam on my CM9 after 600~+ rounds

[root]

I'm not really sure what the round count on my CM9 is, I know it's more than 500 and probably less than 700. So let's say 600 rounds. It's broken in, and I have never ever had any malfunctions or issues with it.


So, I bought a new Glock 19 Gen 4 and took it to the range to 'break in'. It went as expected (Very well... It's a Glock, afterall), I want to do more testing with this as I'm going to start carrying it eventually. I went to the range with some cheap target ammo for it but also some Hornady Critical Defense that I carry in my CM9.


Anyhow, since I had a lot of Hornady Critical Defense with me since I was testing the Glock, I figured I'd go ahead and empty the magazine on my carry piece (CM9) while I was there. Why not? Good to practice with your carry piece.

Pull the trigger, bang. Pull the trigger, bang. Pull the trigger... Nothing. Oh no! A round jammed into the feed ramp! This is my carry gun, can't be having jams. I'm not carrying toast.

I'm not sure what could have caused this, as I have mentioned I have put a lot of rounds through it. Is it possible this was caused by the Kahr 7 round magazine? I have read on here (I believe) someone mentioning something about those. I'm now only carrying it with the original 6 round magazine. I keep the gun clean. Have never once had a jam before, not even during the break in period. Just sort of scary that this happened on a carry piece.

Anyhow, just curious if anyone has had this happen to them and what advice they'd offer. I've never had a pistol jam on me before (minus an old 1972~ Ruger Standard) so I am wondering if there is anything I can do to my Kahr to ensure that this never ever happens again. I'm just going to say it was probably the 7 round magazine because if you grip the extension it may move the top of the magazine inside the pistol a little forward and down which may make it harder to feed from. I don't know. I just don't want it to ever happen again so am rocking only the original 6 rounder and may take my other 6 round magazine and remove the Pierce grip extension as well.

Thoughts?

[Marine One]

I'm sure there are some with much more experience than me who will chime in on this but FWIW, I am learning that with both my CM9 and CM40 that I get the best shooting experience with the standard size, flush fitting magazines.
I recently broke my first CM9 mag follower and it was on a 7-round extended mag.
My CM40 will run just fine all day long with the standard 5-round mag. If I attempt to use the 6-round extended mag it won't chamber correctly.

[b4uqzme]

It's reasonable to expect that all semi-auto handguns are capable of jamming. So we do our best to mitigate the risk: work on our shooting fundamentals, keep them clean and lubed properly, and practice. If it does jam, try to see if there is something different that may have caused it. If not, one jam in 600 rounds is a pretty good record. But I too carry my 6 round mag as my primary and the 7 rounders are backups = just another variable to eliminate if possible.

With any carry piece, we have to accept some level of malfunction risk. To each his own. Some will only carry revolvers but even those don't have perfect records.

My recommendation is to check your gun over good for any signs of defects. Clean and lube it well. Clean your mags. Then shoot a reasonable number of rounds though it to make sure it's still carry worthy. You'll be fine.

[dohcacr]

Wouldn't hurt to polish the feed ramp.

[Scarywoody]

It may have just been due to an improper grip (limp wrist). Tap, Rack and Roll. I practice that technique with my Glock 19. Of course, you have to induce it because Glock's tend to just run. No need to break a Glock in they come that way.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ my BIL simply cannot own a Kahr. He's a great shot but his grip is lousy. So for him it's an M&P Shield. I think that's important to note. We on Kahrtalk tend to point out when malfunctions may be shooter error. But if it happens consistently with any firearm...even from shooter error...that gun might not be the right carry piece for that shooter. It doesn't sound like that's our OP's case. 1/600. "Shoot the fokker like you stole it."

[GROTMAN]

I have a pm 9 with over 5,000 rounds through it. The only jams/failures to feed were when I tried to use the 7 round mag. It worked fine with only 6 rounds in it but add the 7th and not so good. I now have 4 of the 6 round mags and have never had a problem with any of them so it might just be that mag. Try it with just 6 rounds in it and see how it works. Just sayin. :)

[deadeye]

Same here. 100% with the 6 rounders. Only trouble I've had was with Pearce extenders. Slide wouldn't lock open on the last round. Went back with everything original and back to 100%. 3500 rds and counting.

[root]

Yep, figured it was due to the 7 round magazine...

Only carrying it with the 6 round ones I have for it from now on. The Karh will only be carried anyhow when wearing more form fitting clothing as I am starting to carry my Glock 19 when I am dressed to support it. I'd rather have 15+1 than 6+1 any day. :)

Still love my Kahr, just was surprised is all. Glad it was at the range it happened and not somewhere in defense.

[yqtszhj]

Yep, its the 7 round mag. My cm9 will jsm with the 7 and 8 round mag. Stick with the 6 IMHO.

[CPTKILLER]

This is a case of practicing immediate action drills. It was common with military 1911's because most were old and worn out.

[Marine One]

OP it sounds like you have a built in excuse to hit the range. Thinking about this, it could be any number of things, but none of which you could put your finger on, and none of which would cause me to stop carrying this weapon for Self Defense.
Go to the range, and put 100 rounds through it. If it performs as it has in the past then you have nothing to worry about.

[JimBianchi]

Even my beloved MK9 will jam once in a 1000 times with the 7rd mags.

I only carry and shoot my CM9 with 6rd mags.

Runs great.

[GEARHEAD_ENG]

How many rounds of the Hornady Critical Defense have you put through it?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Dano]

Same here. 100% with the 6 rounders. Only trouble I've had was with Pearce extenders. Slide wouldn't lock open on the last round. Went back with everything original and back to 100%. 3500 rds and counting.

I'll 3rd that. I have a CM9 and a PM9 and the only problem I've ever had is with the 7 round mags. I finally, after a lot of experimentation figured out
why; grip squeeze. With the extended mag, I have a tendency to put pressure on the extension. This will actually pull the bullet side of the mag down
causing a jam. I found that if I hold the gun with no finger on the extended part of the mag, I can shoot the crap out of either gun and no jams. Grip
it as part of the grip and it will jam. Since I know my reaction when the fecal material hits the oscillating device is to use a firm grip, I do not employ
an extended mag on any of my Kahrs.
This may be your problem and solution. Remove your slide. Insert a 7 rounder and as you get you grip, the same grip as when you shoot, watch the
top bullet. If it dips, even just a fraction of an inch, it can cause a jam.
Dano

[kenemoore]

Failures are always a possibility, that's why you should train yourself to handle it. Tap, rack bang!
My friends and I often load each others magazine with a snap cap somewhere to teach fault handling.
They once loaded me down with three in a row, bunch of clowns. :=)

[rxs0]

600+ rounds?

Consider replacing recoil springs and try different magazine. Clean gun thoroughly. Lube appropriately.
Good luck,
rxs0

[muggsy]

Wouldn't hurt to polish the feed ramp.

I can't tell you how many guns have resulted in becoming jamb-o-matics because the previous owner just had to polish the feed ramp. If it's not broken don't fix it.

[rxs0]

I can't tell you how many guns have resulted in becoming jamb-o-matics because the previous owner just had to polish the feed ramp. If it's not broken don't fix it.

Worse case scenario, replace damaged barrel for $140.80 from Kahr.com.

[deadeye]

I can't tell you how many guns have resulted in becoming jamb-o-matics because the previous owner just had to polish the feed ramp. If it's not broken don't fix it.
^^^^^^^^^
Oh, Yeah!! Guns are like Holley carburetors and Harleys. First thing some one does is "modify" them for better performance. Then complain when they don't work right.

[kahrinca]

OP's comments make me wonder if he's done all that much shooting over his lifetime. Never a jam, ever?

In any event, suggest that he does the magazine test and sanding of the follower, if necessary, at end of first post, 'Proper prep of a new Kahr':

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1521-Proper-prep-of-a-new-kahr

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[happypuppy]

No mechanical device of any kind is 100% reliable. Clean it ( mag too ) and don't work about it. Always carry a spare Mag they can and do fail.

If it happens do the malfunction drill.

[kahrinca]

I can't tell you how many guns have resulted in becoming jamb-o-matics because the previous owner just had to polish the feed ramp. If it's not broken don't fix it.

Though I may agree with most of this statement, the PMs come from the factory with a polished feed ramp, so the general concensus is to leave it alone with those models.

If the CM9 does not come with such a polished feed ramp I would not polish it anyway. OP has gone through 600 rounds until this solitary failure. The FTF may not at all be related to the feed ramp anyway, so I respectfully advise to leave it alone. This sounds more like a magazine issue, and not worth getting in a 'tiss' about it. And I don't believe in that stupid Murphy's Law c*ap*la, besides, that is why tap, rack, bang exists to remedy such problems.

Perhaps OP might be better off with the Glock or a Beretta 92FS, for purely psychological reasons.

[muggsy]

How many rounds do you think that you'll have to expend to take down the perp. If it's 600, you had better get your ass to the range. Guns can misfire or jamb for a number of reasons. They are mechanical devices made by man. The round itself could have been bad. I have never owned a gun that ran 600 rounds without some sort of failure. That's why I carry a spare and practice the tap rack drill to clear a jammed gun. If you gun only failed once in 600 rounds it's a testament to the quality of the firearm and ammo. I've walked thousands of miles, but occasionally I still stub my toe.

[jocko]

Though I may agree with most of this statement, the PMs come from the factory with a polished feed ramp, so the general concensus is to leave it alone with those models.

If the CM9 does not come with such a polished feed ramp I would not polish it anyway. OP has gone through 600 rounds until this solitary failure. The FTF may not at all be related to the feed ramp anyway, so I respectfully advise to leave it alone. This sounds more like a magazine issue, and not worth getting in a 'tiss' about it. And I don't believe in that stupid Murphy's Law c*ap*la, besides, that is why tap, rack, bang exists to remedy such problems.

Perhaps OP might be better off with the Glock or a Beretta 92FS, for purely psychological reasons.

totally dissagree, all kahrs come with polished feed ramps, One can enhance any feed ramp with a good in homne polish to, I higly recommend a repolish of any feed ramp on any firearm PERIOD. Ur not removing any metal. Kahr doesn't skimp on he polisibng of therir feed ramps. they are some of the best looking finished raps I have seen on any semi auto, but not to say one wil not slip by not polished enough. U don't hav eto get carreid away with this eitger, a dremel with a cotton polishing cone and some flitz or fine compound will make it shine like a diamone in a goats ass. I would recomment a chamber polish also, Most of the dremel polishing cones will fit right in the chammbe rof the 9mm. Muggsy is right IMO on the malfunction thing. alot of variables in a malfuncion and the gun gets b alamed for it every time. Bad rounds are common, more than we think, piss poor maintenance on ones firearm varies with each individual. LIMP WRISTING is not a MYTH, Recoil springs, mag springs etc striker springs are things that are made to be replaced, and if u don't set up a system to make these changes, then the gun in time will let u know that sumpin is not right. Sometimes a small notebook with each gun you own and a date when ut did certain things wil help refresh ur mind to. One can't remember everything, unless ur ol jocko who never forgets a thing,m but I have had some preventative maintence to. I am on my 3rd brin, 4th heart, same pecker, (u don't mess with perfection). thank you, Juest sayin

Glad to see your poosting Muggsy, even though u never make sense, it makes the forum feel better knowing ur here.

[kahrinca]

Jocko- Though I was not the originator of the 'jam-o-matic' comment, the problem is that people on occasion do remove metal from the feed ramp.

We agree to disagree- I just don't believe it necessary to polish a feed ramp that has already been polished to my satisfaction at the factory.

'Thank you' for the 'Proper Prep of a new Kahr' thread here. I've found it very helpful, especially the 'Magazine Fix' at the end of the first post. I never would've thought of doing it.

[muggsy]

If your gun jammed after 600 rounds the only things that I would consider changing are the mag and recoil springs. I have a few thousand through my CM9 and it goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

[jocko]

If your gun jammed after 600 rounds the only things that I would consider changing are the mag and recoil springs. I have a few thousand through my CM9 and it goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

unless one owns a GLOCK and as you know and read GLOCKS NEVER MALFUNCTION. I calledmy local gun dealer and ask about a price on a spare G43 recoil spring. He said 73$. I told him I just want the recoil spring and not the entire gun, he said that is for the spring. Muggsy u seem to have some pull in Cleveland, the home town of the loser Cleveland Browns, see if u can find me one for 30$.Just sayin

[kahrinca]

If your gun jammed after 600 rounds the only things that I would consider changing are the mag and recoil springs. I have a few thousand through my CM9 and it goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

If this happened to me I wouldn't even consider changing any springs where 599 trigger pulls out of 600 resulted in a 'bang'.

Without evidence of recurring problems, I'd just consider it an anomaly.

[b4uqzme]

If this happened to me I wouldn't even consider changing any springs where 599 trigger pulls out of 600 resulted in a 'bang'.

Without evidence of recurring problems, I'd just consider it an anomaly.

+1. I'd see how the next 600 go.

[AnthonyC]

When I got a couple of 7 round mags from a kahrtalk seller they would not feed reliably at all, not even when loading the chamber after inserting a mag.
I disassembled them, tweaked the feed lips and lightly sanded the magazine followers and inside of feed lips, then cleaned and lubed them. Now they run fine with a types of ammo.
Like previous posters have said, anything mechanical can hiccup once in a while. Try shooting several more mags of your defense ammo using that mag. It could be that particular round.

[kahrinca]

When I got a couple of 7 round mags from a kahrtalk seller they would not feed reliably at all, not even when loading the chamber after inserting a mag.
I disassembled them, tweaked the feed lips and lightly sanded the magazine followers and inside of feed lips, then cleaned and lubed them. Now they run fine with a types of ammo.
Like previous posters have said, anything mechanical can hiccup once in a while. Try shooting several more mags of your defense ammo using that mag. It could be that particular round.

Little doubt in my mind the 7-rd magazines are substandard. That is where the tweaking, above, comes into play, if you are willing to put up with it. If not, just buy a most ugly Glock, or a 92FS or a SIG, S&W, etc., or stick with the 6-rd mags.

In any event your points are well-taken and it should also be mentioned there's a procedure recited in last paragraph of 'Proper Prep of a New Kahr' entitled ' Magazine Fix'. It contains a simple way to test one's magazines from the factory, and how the user can sand the followers to pass the test recited therein. It's a bit ambiguous as to where, but when one finds photos of the fix in the gb4491 thread, it shows the areas clearly, though more than is needed to remedy nose-dives. The photos are 3rd and 4th sets down in post #2 of this thread:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-45)-issues-and-fixes

[kahrinca]

I just use FrogLube. Gave it two heat treatments prior to first range trip.

Gun has not been cleaned after two range sessions and 257 rounds. The only thing that I will do now is take a Q-tip and rub it inside the slide and on the feed ramp to get it shiny again. Dependent upon how it looks, I may add a bit of the FL paste cold. I do use a BoreSnake on the barrel while it's still warm.

LATER UPDATE: Actually wiped components down with paper towel and Q-tips. Gun is now pretty clean. Also applied a bit of cold FL paste to the weapon last night.

The images below depict condition of the firearm components after 257 rounds without wipe-down or cleaning:


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x225/brentfoto/DSC_4051_zpsmryn7l4o.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/brentfoto/media/DSC_4051_zpsmryn7l4o.jpg.html)


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x225/brentfoto/DSC_4054_zpsrfyarczs.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/brentfoto/media/DSC_4054_zpsrfyarczs.jpg.html)




http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x225/brentfoto/DSC_4053_zpspjtlhavu.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/brentfoto/media/DSC_4053_zpspjtlhavu.jpg.html)

[KCAutoBob]

I carry PM9 with 6 rd mag for concealment advantage. Recently bought 2 of the 7 rd. mags while on a trip, and finally got to test them when I got back home. Ran about 50 rounds or so through the two mags, firing and reloading each after 2-3 rounds fired. Made sure I had one in the pipe before shooting most (as in a tactical reload) but also sling-shotted or slide-released as with an emptied mag reload situation. No problems. I do remember, tho, reading lots of complaints about the 7 round extended magazine "nose-dive" problem. Seemed really problematic with the 7 rd. extended mag used in PM9's. Maybe I'm lucky, but I do like those extra two rounds for back-up reloads. Is this still a problem, Sept., 2016?

[Conceal155]

Just purchased my cm9 a few weeks ago. I ordered a second six round mag and thought about the 7 round mag. After reading these posts if I buy a third mag it will be another six round mag. Thanks for the education everyone. Love this forum.

[bugs]

sorry to hear that! I shot a IDPA match yesterday (107rds.) all my mags are extnd.7s because of better grip, w/lakeside followers, loaded w/6rds.,no FTFs,FTEs,etc. with either short 6s or long 7s. for grins, I polished the barrel,hood,and ramp w/2000 grit paper then Flitz just because it looks nice.

my CM9 has between 1500/2500 fired as this is my EDC which I practice/compete with in IDPA BUG; my match ammo is Fed.115 gr.alum. case,vel.1150 fps.stated on box, my critical defense is 1145 fps. no failures with either.

I bore snake after every session and tear down/lube about every 300 rds.

NRA LIFER
IDPA BELEIVER

[bugs]

may I ask what brand ammo you use? I shot the Wisconsin State IDPA Match (200+rds.) using 115 gr.Fed.aluminum case and thought my CM was dirty until I saw your pics.

not trying to be critical,just curious.

BTW, I use Q tip to oil the barrel,hood, rails, guide rails, guide rod,slide opening for barrel muzzle and inside of slide above barrel. CM runs like its' hair on fire.

NRA LIFER
IDPA BELEIVER