How often do you carry

[TD2K]

I teach a lot of conceal carry classes, and when I see former students out and about I always ask if they are carrying. I'm a bit surprised how many of them aren't. I'm curious how many of you carry daily (where legally permitted of course).

If not, why not?

Edit: for clarity, I'm asking about when you are outside of your own house

[JohnR]

If you mean "during waking hours," I probably carry on my belt about 10% of the time. If you mean "when outside the house," I probably carry 80% of the time.

[TD2K]

Let's go with "Outside the house". Once I put on my PJ's, it's just within reaching distance.

[Ken L]

I carry 100% of the time outside of the house where I'm legally able to. However, I fly often for work and I have not flown with my handgun, so maybe I should qualify that to "I carry 100% of the time when I can drive for work". I have read up on traveling with my handgun I just haven't done it yet.

[Bawanna]

I carry 100% of the time frequently even where not allowed. Court houses, airports etc of course exempt.

Stores, schools, work, the rules are ignored.

I generally, well almost without exception have a 1911 on my right side straight up in a mernickle OWB holster with a shirt or vest cover garment. The PM45 is always on my ankle everywhere. Especially those questionable places, mowing the lawn, around the house etc. I don't like an ankle rig as a primary gun but it's better than being on the dresser or in the car when your someplace else.

With mileage I have gotta a bit lax on the spare mag thing, used to always carry two which fit either gun, then down to one, and now frequently don't even carry a spare all the time. Still on the dresser when I feel the urge.

[getsome]

I carry everywhere I go that's legal except for work which bothers me but I need the job and rules are rules....I don't normally carry if I'm in the yard but that's now going to change....Last Saturday I walked down to the street to get the mail and didn't put my gun in my pocket....While looking in the mailbox out of the corner of my eye I saw movement, I turned to look and saw this very large rottweiler running down the middle of the street draging a leash...He chased me to my pickup (thank God it was there) and I got up on the roof to get away from him....When he saw he couldn't get me he ran on off but it scared the crap out of me and from now on my pistol will be in my pocket on mail runs....

[Ronni3_J]

I carry 99% of the time. The only time I dont is when I go on my group cycling rides. We usually end up at a bar so cant carry there but I usually still have a pocket knife on me. I do carry when I ride by myself. I end up in some desolate places so I dont want to be without

[deadeye]

Always. Paranoid? Yes. Still alive? Yes.

[berettabone]

The only time I DON'T carry is in the shower or asleep...................and it's close then:hippie:

[SlowBurn]

Pocket carry pretty much everywhere in public except where prohibited by metal detectors. Driving- in easy reach (not in pocket). Same at work. Carry gun stays locked in the car in the garage at night. Any guns I'm not carrying are home, but I live in a very secure situation and don't actually carry at home.

[Bawanna]

I'm prohibited from carrying in the office here at the PD! For 15 years I was allowed to wear it into the office and lock it in a personal safe on my desk. Put it back on when I leave. Got a new liability worrier Deputy Chief who didn't like it so suddenly it's not allowed.
I still need the job too although I've had enough of it, BUT the PM45 is still on my ankle. A lot of bad can happen between the back door of a PD and the parking lot. Being the department armorer with access to 30 AR's and countless Glocks you'd think it would be a non issue but I think it's the college education or something that throws a brick in the gear works.

[sk73]

I carry all of the time except where prohibited sometimes I don't carry when I roughhouse with grandsons and pistol may become visible to them or fall out of pocket or holster. Someone used the word paranoid, tongue in cheek, I'm sure. But it doesn't occur to me to be even think that. It's a natural part of who I am


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SlowBurn]

Being the department armorer with access to 30 AR's and countless Glocks you'd think it would be a non issue but I think it's the college education or something that throws a brick in the gear works.
Reminds me of a pilot buddy told me he wasn't allowed to carry a pocket knife on his own flight. He wondered why they thought he'd need a knife since he already had control of the plane ....

[DavidR]

I carry outside the house as often as I can. Can't carry at work so that eliminates a big chunk 5 days a week but other than that, I almost always carry.


Dave

[yqtszhj]

100% of the time away from home. When inside the house i don't but all doors are locked and the closest piece is no farther than 12 seconds away.

Where i'll carry is a secret. :rolleyes:

[Ronni3_J]

Half of us carry at work. Its great working for a small business thats pro carry

http://jdlautodesign.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Guns.jpg

[TD2K]

I agree. Several of us do as well, in fact, our new President took my class (with his mom and several of his friends)

[Bob T]

I had to vote "Never," although I have carried a couple times since I got my permit, but that was out of state, riding a motorcycle, out in the sticks. Around here, were I go and how I live, just haven't seen the need.

[berettabone]

" just haven't seen the need".........................where have I heard that before?????????????????????????????????:behindsofa :

[TheTman]

I carry where I can. Sometimes I have to leave it in the car when going into certain buildings.

[Harrylee]

Let's go with "Outside the house". Once I put on my PJ's, it's just within reaching distance.

I’ll go with that but once daily carry is done the longer mag goes in and the Streamlight light and laser go on and sits in front of me till bed time then is next to the bed after that

[Bob T]

" just haven't seen the need".........................where have I heard that before?????????????????????????????????:behindsofa :

Right here...we've had this discussion before....:D

I also don't see the need to wear my motorcycle helmet when driving my car, but if I did, it might save my life one day. (Probably more likely than carrying will:p)

Honestly kids...I support your right to carry. That's why I went through the expense and time to get my permit, because I totally support the idea. But I didn't carry for 56 years of my life, and never missed, nor needed it, so what changed just because I can now? :confused:

Bob

[hardluk1]

I marked 75% as in all hours I awake but really when my pants go on the pistol goes in the holster going on 28 years . The rest of the time one handgun or another and very near by .

[RRP]

Right here...we've had this discussion before....:D

I also don't see the need to wear my motorcycle helmet when driving my car, but if I did, it might save my life one day. (Probably more likely than carrying will:p)

Honestly kids...I support your right to carry. That's why I went through the expense and time to get my permit, because I totally support the idea. But I didn't carry for 56 years of my life, and never missed, nor needed it, so what changed just because I can now? :confused:

Bob

Have you considered that no one expects to get into an accident, but accidents happen every day. No one expects to have their house burn down, but fires happen daily. And, no one expects another human being to threaten to kill them, but home invasions, violent assaults, car jackings and muggings happen every day.

I know that I could not live with myself if I had the means to stop a deadly attack on a loved one, but was unable to do so because I chose not to carry because I just "didn't see the need" that day.

I respect your opinion, Bob. You do what you think is right for you and your loved ones. And I'll do what I have to do to live with myself.

[sharpetop]

Work is forbidden so I can't say if I carry there or not. 100% of the other times.

[Bob T]

Have you considered that no one expects to get into an accident, but accidents happen every day. No one expects to have their house burn down, but fires happen daily. And, no one expects another human being to threaten to kill them, but home invasions, violent assaults, car jackings and muggings happen every day.

Yes, of course I've considered all that. But I play the odds, that's what we do in life. I ride motorcycles, I even crashed a few times, but I do it. Risk is part of life.

As for not expecting to be attacked by another human, you are correct, I don't. I never have and probably never will be attacked. That's a chance I'll take, to live my life the way I choose.

Having to strap on, carry, secure, worry about my gun for a 25 minute commute to work? Why? I can't take it in work, the ride to work is through quiet, low crime suburbs, so again, why.

There are so many ways we can die unexpectedly...getting attacked and shot is so very low on the list.;)

Later,
Bob

[Alfonse]

I carry all the time because I'm lazy. That makes me want to be efficient in things I do.

I have kids, so I don't leave anything loaded lying around. I don't leave any firearm or ammo lying around, loaded or not.

So, if I want to carry sometimes, I have to go to the safe, get out the pistol, lock up the safe, etc. I'm not going to do that. I don't have the time.

It is easier to have a pistol I can just have with me all the time. No getting it out, putting it away, or even thinking about whether or not I want to have it. Kahr has the perfect product for this thinking. The PM9 (or CM9) is small with all that I want in a pistol for carry and nothing I don't want.

In 6 or 7 years I have only had to lock it up when I went on some airline flights. When it is not in my pocket, it is within arms reach. But it is in my pocket most all of the time That isn't because I'm worried about being attacked, it is simply to keep track of something that could have bad consequences if I didn't. I find it easier to carry ALL THE TIME than to do it any other way.

[marshal kane]

I live in a state that legally allows both open or concealed carry with or without a permit. A lot of work went into getting the Governor to pass this law. I make full use of this law and will never give anyone reason to change it.

[wyntrout]

12 seconds to reach a gun! Yikes! I have loaded pistols throughout the house and carry my P380 IWB when awake around the house... and even when napping sometimes. I don't answer the door or go outside without my P380 with 6+1 +P Gold Dots by Underwood. I don't want to venture outside without my pistol... I stay aware of my surroundings and hope to not be surprised by any attackers... 4-legged or 2-legged. It's like needing a parachute and not having one... only happens once!

I conceal carry, so don't usually take my pistol off unless there ARE metal detectors. Gun Free Zones are for sheeple.

When I leave the house, I'm carrying a pistol, extra mag(hicap for Kahr), knife, and phone... I add a light at night.

"Safe" and prosperous neighborhoods are where bad guys go to get good stuff... not much use robbing the poor.

Wynn :)

[berettabone]

Yes, of course I've considered all that. But I play the odds, that's what we do in life. I ride motorcycles, I even crashed a few times, but I do it. Risk is part of life.

As for not expecting to be attacked by another human, you are correct, I don't. I never have and probably never will be attacked. That's a chance I'll take, to live my life the way I choose.

Having to strap on, carry, secure, worry about my gun for a 25 minute commute to work? Why? I can't take it in work, the ride to work is through quiet, low crime suburbs, so again, why.

There are so many ways we can die unexpectedly...getting attacked and shot is so very low on the list.;)

Later,
Bob
I sure hope that you don't have car insurance..............it's a waste of money............after all, the odds of having a car accident are about the same as...........well, what do ya know,,,,,,,,,,,,

[SlowBurn]

Yes, of course I've considered all that. But I play the odds, that's what we do in life. I ride motorcycles, I even crashed a few times, but I do it. Risk is part of life.

As for not expecting to be attacked by another human, you are correct, I don't. I never have and probably never will be attacked. That's a chance I'll take, to live my life the way I choose.

Having to strap on, carry, secure, worry about my gun for a 25 minute commute to work? Why? I can't take it in work, the ride to work is through quiet, low crime suburbs, so again, why.

There are so many ways we can die unexpectedly...getting attacked and shot is so very low on the list.;)

Later,
Bob

Everyone has to balance the risk/benefit scale for themselves. One of the beauties of the rtba and concealed carry is you don't know who is healed and who isn't. Gun free zones are so dangerous in the absence of armed security and metal detectors because crazies KNOW everyone is disarmed. So even though you don't often carry its great you have the license -keeps the numbers up and the bad guys guessing. Plus when you do want a gun handy, you're legal.

[deadeye]

I have car insurance, and I have house insurance. Wasted a lot of money through the years. Never needed either. Of course the years I haven't needed them don't count. The one I do will count big.
To each his own.

[TD2K]

Tom Givens of Rangemaster in Memphis has trained thousands of students. He keeps track of student involved shootings, and has a presentation with stats on number of rounds fired, distance, etc.

To date, he has had 67 students involved in a violent encounter where shots were fired. The record is 65 wins, 0 losses, 2 forfeits. The 2 forfeits were not carrying a gun, and they aren't alive to explain why they were not carrying.

Any time I even CONSIDER leaving the house unarmed (I'm just running to the store for a loaf of bread, I don't want to gear back up just for that, I'll only be gone 5 minutes, etc) a little voice in my head (which sounds a LOT like Tom's voice), says "Don't be number three!". That does the trick.

It's your choice, obviously, but I'm not taking any chances. I work in a pretty rough area of town and I'm here first to unlock every morning. I've had to use my car insurance and my house insurance more than once. I'm glad I had them both. I treat this the same.

[TD2K]

Bad guy isn't gonna call you one morning and tell you "hey, I'm gonna try to kill you about 2:00 this afternoon at the 7-11, you best take your gun".

Just like I didn't think on my way home from work back in 2005 that I would cross over the center line of the interstate and hit a semi truck head on. Sure was glad I had insurance, did $76,000 damage to the semi and totaled my car. Plus all the medical bills I racked up. But, I'm here, so I'm thankful.

[Alfonse]

Tom Givens of Rangemaster in Memphis has trained thousands of students. He keeps track of student involved shootings, and has a presentation with stats on number of rounds fired, distance, etc.

To date, he has had 67 students involved in a violent encounter where shots were fired. The record is 65 wins, 0 losses, 2 forfeits. The 2 forfeits were not carrying a gun, and they aren't alive to explain why they were not carrying.



I love statistics, most of the time. Do you know the total number of students that he kept track of that the 67 is the subset that were involved in a violent encounter with shots fired? Just curious!

[TD2K]

I know it was tens of thousands. He owned a public range in Memphis for about 20 years. He knows the number, but I do not.

65 came back to him and told him what happened, he has them all documented. He knows of 2 that were killed, and that they did not have their gun.

I will try to find out more numbers from him. :)

[Alfonse]

Thanks. Those are great numbers for some perspective.

[Bob T]

Sorry, can't visit this site at work...(seriously, guns bad, don't ya know:rolleyes:), so I just got caught up.


Everyone has to balance the risk/benefit scale for themselves. One of the beauties of the rtba and concealed carry is you don't know who is healed and who isn't. Gun free zones are so dangerous in the absence of armed security and metal detectors because crazies KNOW everyone is disarmed. So even though you don't often carry its great you have the license -keeps the numbers up and the bad guys guessing. Plus when you do want a gun handy, you're legal.

SlowBurn, thanks! I think you get what I am sayin'

I will be wearin' a gun Saturday...At a local Steel Plate Match! :D

Bob

[Longitude Zero]

Statistics means whatever the person quoting them wants them to mean. In other words they are meaningless. As to the OP I carry 100% of time when out of the house.

[Planedude]

I picked 75% as I do not and can not carry at (or even near) work. The company has fired folks for having ammo (no gun) locked in the trunk of their car.
I need my job...
Other than that its 96.75%, accounting for places posed Texas legal 30.06. That don't make me comfy in those places, just legal.
Interesting thread!

[Barth]

I teach a lot of conceal carry classes, and when I see former students out and about I always ask if they are carrying. I'm a bit surprised how many of them aren't. I'm curious how many of you carry daily (where legally permitted of course).

If not, why not?

Edit: for clarity, I'm asking about when you are outside of your own house

Everyday that ends in "Y" - LOL.
I've got friends that ask why I carry all the time?
If I had a crystal ball that could tell me the exact time and place I would be attacked?
I'd only carry then.
But since there's no way of knowing that.
I carry whenever I'm allowed to do so.

Barth

[TD2K]

Here is a link to a podcast where Tom talks about his students that have been involved in shootings. This was 2 years ago, so the numbers are a bit lower than what I quoted above (65 wins to date). I've heard this presentation live about 6 times from Tom, it never gets old. The first time I heard it, I immediately changed some things in my training/carrying. Very eye opening experience for me.

http://ballisticradio.com/2013/05/14/podcast-ballistic-radio-episode-10-may-12-2013/

[Harrylee]

Good info, gives you some other thoughts on your daily or weekly practice. Thanks for posting it

[SlowBurn]

SlowBurn, thanks! I think you get what I am sayin'

I will be wearin' a gun Saturday...At a local Steel Plate Match! :D

Bob

I sympathize with your choice. My current lifestyle also puts me at very low risk. I've had a permit forever but left my G17 pretty much in the vehicle (still do actually.) Then micro 380s came out few years ago. That shifted the balance for me and now I pocket carry because its relatively convenient. The biggest downside is giving up my favorite pocket.

[jocko]

I teach a lot of conceal carry classes, and when I see former students out and about I always ask if they are carrying. I'm a bit surprised how many of them aren't. I'm curious how many of you carry daily (where legally permitted of course).

If not, why not?

Edit: for clarity, I'm asking about when you are outside of your own house

that doesn't surprise me. Many take the class to learn the basics, which is great. The decision to carry IMO is a big resonsibilty that some maybe do not want to accept. Not sure of the ages of the people on this forum, but my thoughts are that many of us are retired people, who have been there done that and not going into work every day and having to stick the gun in thge glove department cause it is maybe not allowed on the work grounds etc. It would be very interesting to even know the age brackets of forum members. My et is tha tthe 20-35 people are very few. They arent that interest in gun forums, or guns in general. Alot of younger people are struggling to make ends meet, let along buying a 500$+ gun and ammo etc and getting fully trained etc. Just my thoughts on this. My son who is 27 likes to kthink he is a gun person, he has a lifetime permit that I basicaly forced him to get, He has some of kmy semi's, locked in his fokking safe. He has not shot in 5 years, unless I come down to se ehim and say lets go shooting. It is not a priority with him. I hope that someday, when he gets better settled that he will at least carry it in his vehicle.


Get well Muggsy

Get well Muggsy

[jocko]

the first time a movie theater has an inspection station or a metal device, then I will never go to that theater again, after I let them know why. These gun free zones are killers IMO.


Get well Muggsy

[Bob T]

I sympathize with your choice. My current lifestyle also puts me at very low risk. I've had a permit forever but left my G17 pretty much in the vehicle (still do actually.) Then micro 380s came out few years ago. That shifted the balance for me and now I pocket carry because its relatively convenient. The biggest downside is giving up my favorite pocket.

Yes, I hear you.
Even though I have a nice K40 and holster, the only times I've carried has been a Sig P238 in the thigh pocket of my riding pants. I've crashed a motorcycle or two, and having a big chunk a metal on my belt would not be fun when hitting the ground.

Bob

[Bob T]

that doesn't surprise me. Many take the class to learn the basics, which is great. The decision to carry IMO is a big resonsibilty that some maybe do not want to accept. Not sure of the ages of the people on this forum, but my thoughts are that many of us are retired people, who have been there done that and not going into work every day and having to stick the gun in thge glove department cause it is maybe not allowed on the work grounds etc. It would be very interesting to even know the age brackets of forum members. My et is tha tthe 20-35 people are very few. They arent that interest in gun forums, or guns in general. Alot of younger people are struggling to make ends meet, let along buying a 500$+ gun and ammo etc and getting fully trained etc. Just my thoughts on this. My son who is 27 likes to kthink he is a gun person, he has a lifetime permit that I basicaly forced him to get, He has some of kmy semi's, locked in his fokking safe. He has not shot in 5 years, unless I come down to se ehim and say lets go shooting. It is not a priority with him. I hope that someday, when he gets better settled that he will at least carry it in his vehicle.

Good thoughts....59 here....

[Ronni3_J]

Ill be 34 in Nov. To be honest I didnt ever really think about carrying until I started my family. Now that I have more than just myself to look after I look at things a lot different now.

[b4uqzme]

Good thoughts....59 here....

Agree. Jocko's being remarkably eloquent for an old goat herder. I went with 75% because I carry all the time unless I'm traveling and I travel a little bit too often. I also avoid gun free zones = anybody displaying that silly sign. That sign just tells me they do not want my business.

55 here.

Get well muggsy!

[kenemoore]

I cannot carry at work, otherwise, if I have my pants on, I'm armed. Have to take off in parking lot, put back on after work.
Used to carry illegally for a few years, now 100% legit. I thinks have gotten worse the last decade or so, I used to not carry in the house, now I do, just in case. Used to carry one gun, now two, just in case.

55 YO fat man.

[TD2K]

34 here. I work in a rough area of OKC, had a couple of things happen at work that made me nervous. Hubby is a LEO, got trained about 6 years ago and started carrying. And I practice what I preach to my students.

[kwh]

I pocket carry. So like kenemoore, if I am wearing pants, I am armed.

[Bawanna]

TD, I'm 60, be 61 next month, you think I'm too old for you? I still have my own teeth, well some of them anyhow.

[Alfonse]

TD, I'm 60, be 61 next month, you think I'm too old for you? I still have my own teeth, well some of them anyhow.

You hang out with LEO, it sounds like she must like those types, so you must be qualified to be a cyber-husband. Just have to be young enough to type for that....

Get Well Muggsy!

[Barth]

the first time a movie theater has an inspection station or a metal device, then I will never go to that theater again, after I let them know why. These gun free zones are killers IMO.

+1
There's a reason schools, malls and theaters are Shooting Galleries!
These un-enforced gun free zones are just an invitation to disaster.

Stupid is as stupid does...

Barth

[Bawanna]

I'm kind to my brakes too, my wife on the other hand figures they are there to be used and used hard too.
My van had about 40-50,000 miles on it when I bought it, it's a 2000, over 130,000 now. Probably time to start looking.
I like it fine but being it's a Ford it's already 3 times over it's life expectancy. Surprised they haven't called me to use it for a commercial or something.

I want a 4x4 next time. No snow worries and such, makes me feel manly. More appealing to my girl TD2K to compensate for that age difference.

[Armybrat]

Whenever I'm wearing pants. (75% of the time)

The other 25% I'm sleeping in the raw, so no deadly weapons on or about me - just in the nightstand.

[Planedude]

the first time a movie theater has an inspection station or a metal device, then I will never go to that theater again, after I let them know why. These gun free zones are killers IMO.


Get well Muggsy

EXACTLY right! I already avoid places that put up metal detectors at the doors. We would comply, but the madmen don't care and that wouldn't stop them.
I carry right on past the "gun-buster" signs on local stores. If the store owner is too lazy to post by the law, well I'm too lazy to head back to the truck to drop off my carry. I do carry past a proper posting at one jewelry store though. I have spent ten thousand plus in the place over the years and they ain't going to say nothing. Also, the only thing that would make anyone ask me about carrying in there would be if the place got robbed, with me in it and on that day, I'd be happy to have my gun!

Going to a movie has meant only one thing to me and that's for many years before the Colorado mass shooting...

Bring the gun with the night sights. Still does!

And I just had my 55th birthday a few weeks ago.

[TheLastDaze]

voted 100%, before I would have stated 50-75% but as of late I've been carrying a KT P32 with spare mag with 73gr Fiocchi hardball.... gun and 15 rounds in two mags weigh as much as my LCP loaded with Lehigh Xtreme.... I have my pea shooter .32 with me always no matter what, mowing yard, in pajamas etc.... this is a gun that you can truly say you forget its there....

yeah a .32 will get the job done, especially in summer.... when cooler months abound I will still use it in back pocket BUG to my primary hi cap guns (preferably glock 26 or 19)...

I have carried both this summer when I headed toward a crime ridden part of town, never believed in NY carry but my mind has changed dramatically in the last year...

[Barth]

voted 100%, before I would have stated 50-75% but as of late I've been carrying a KT P32 with spare mag with 73gr Fiocchi hardball.... gun and 15 rounds in two mags weigh as much as my LCP loaded with Lehigh Xtreme.... I have my pea shooter .32 with me always no matter what, mowing yard, in pajamas etc.... this is a gun that you can truly say you forget its there....

yeah a .32 will get the job done, especially in summer.... when cooler months abound I will still use it in back pocket BUG to my primary hi cap guns (preferably glock 26 or 19)...

I have carried both this summer when I headed toward a crime ridden part of town, never believed in NY carry but my mind has changed dramatically in the last year...

Crime happens anywhere.
Time for the next dramatic change...
My forget it's there gun?
S&W 342 ti 11.1 oz unloaded.
13.5 oz loaded with Speer GDHP SB 135 gr +P.
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r678/barthunderwood/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150807_231012_zps1sxws4hp.jpg?t=1438927997
http://randywakeman.com/SpeerGoldDotTests.jpg

[kwh]

TheLastDaze,where are the pics of the Kel-Tec .32?? Some worthy firearms get no respect! Full disclosure,I also have the K-T.32. Grip clip, extended magazine, & neck lanyard. Now a BUG inside car 100% of time.

[wyntrout]

Not to start a caliber war or whatever, but just to point out that the popular and often maligned .380 ACP is comparable and somewhat superior to the .38 snubbie with a 2" barrel or less... 1.8", etc. You get 6+1 rounds plus quick reloads and more performance as evidenced by Bruce's testing here. Underwood revised the velocity to 1,200 fps for the 90-grain bonded Gold Dot bullet and that's what I carry since Buffalo Bore stopped using the Speer Gold Dots.

The P380 weighs in at just under 10 ounces and under 14 ounces loaded with 6+1 rounds of 90-grain Gold Dots +P by Underwood.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/IMG_1855_zpsfb38c622.jpg

Bruce's full test is here:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/01/underwood-ammo-380-auto-p-gdhp-clear.html

This is not my first choice or regular daily carry, but I don't feel under-armed when I carry it at home or, for short convenience trips, or where maximum concealment and on and off wear is needed.

And here's Bruce's test of the Speer +P .38 special 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel in a similar pistol:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/12/clear-gel-terminal-testing-speer-38.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/IMG_1614_zps1c530a33.jpg

Wynn :)

[Longitude Zero]

I would prefer a 380 to nothing but with mini 9's not much bigger the 380 as a primary CCW makes some sense. Kahr helped introduce and popularize 9mm that rivaled 380 in size. 380 is an acceptable option but there are far better ones out there.

[Bawanna]

I expect a hail storm but I think they are perfect for folks that want to carry a gun but don't really want to carry a gun.

A 22 Long Rifle will get the job done but that don't mean bawanna is gonna make a habit of traveling around with a 22 long rifle.

That's the beauty of the country we live in, you can carry what works for you, what you have confidence in which is 90% of the battle and in todays' world it is indeed a battle.

[wyntrout]

With similar loadings... 124-grain +P GDSB in the PM9, it weighs 6 ounces more than the P380. I forget that I'm wearing the P380, especially for all-day carry in and around the house.

I'm fixin' to mow the yard and a lot of lawn applications if the rain holds off. I add a 7-round reload and my F.A.S.T Draw Gerber to my carry when doing the yard work. I have Kydex OWB mag holders for everything and switch to my C.O.M Kydex IWB holster with a metal clip. I try to stay situationally aware when outside like that, and I watch the house, too.

Wynn :)

[Barth]

Not to start a caliber war or whatever, but just to point out that the popular and often maligned .380 ACP is comparable and somewhat superior to the .38 snubbie with a 2" barrel or less... 1.8", etc. You get 6+1 rounds plus quick reloads and more performance as evidenced by Bruce's testing here. Underwood revised the velocity to 1,200 fps for the 90-grain bonded Gold Dot bullet and that's what I carry since Buffalo Bore stopped using the Speer Gold Dots.

The P380 weighs in at just under 10 ounces and under 14 ounces loaded with 6+1 rounds of 90-grain Gold Dots +P by Underwood.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/IMG_1855_zpsfb38c622.jpg

Bruce's full test is here:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/01/underwood-ammo-380-auto-p-gdhp-clear.html

This is not my first choice or regular daily carry, but I don't feel under-armed when I carry it at home or, for short convenience trips, or where maximum concealment and on and off wear is needed.

And here's Bruce's test of the Speer +P .38 special 135-grain Good Dot Short Barrel in a similar pistol:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/12/clear-gel-terminal-testing-speer-38.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/IMG_1614_zps1c530a33.jpg

Wynn :)

Guess we interpret those numbers differently.
9 5/32" penetration is unacceptable to me.
I think ~12"-15" is the FBI accepted standard?
.380 is better than nothing.
But I don't agree on .380 ACP = 38 Special +P.
Also, if you want to compare overpressure boutique ammo?
Compare apples to apples - Underwood .380 ACP to Underwood 38 Special +P.
IMHO at the end of the day, all things equal, 38 Special +P bests .380 ACP every time.

As Jocko would say.
I'm just saying...

Barth

Underwood
38 Special +P 125 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point

Technical Information


Caliber: 38 Special
Bullet Weight: 125 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 400 ft. lbs.



Underwood
380 ACP +P 90 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point

Technical Information

Caliber: 380 ACP
Bullet Weight: 90 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 288 ft. lbs.

[wyntrout]

The .380 is out of a Kahr P380 and I don't know what the +P .38 that you're listing is fired from. I was pointing out the OP's +P 135-gr GDSB shot from a SHORT barrel... usually less than 2 inches, though it is a revolver and has a bit more actual barrel counting the cylinder. I'm not the FBI shooting through car doors, so I think about 10 inches of penetration will work for most people.

I did say somewhat superior... which to me is round capacity and ease of reloads, besides energy and penetration. The P380 is thinner and holds 6+1 and I carry a 7-round reload.

The .380 is a compromise, for sure, but I don't always need a larger pistol... at least I hope not. My usual carry is the P40 with 180-gr GDSB and I'm trying to adapt to my G30S with 230-gr GDSB, but it is quite a bit larger... and fatter. I don't like "boutique" ammo, especially the ones with lighter weights and higher velocities.

I like bonded bullets and only use the GD's or GDSB's and the bonded Remington Golden Sabers.

Wynn :)

[Barth]

The .380 is out of a Kahr P380 and I don't know what the +P .38 that you're listing is fired from. I was pointing out the OP's +P 135-gr GDSB shot from a SHORT barrel... usually less than 2 inches, though it is a revolver and has a bit more actual barrel counting the cylinder. I'm not the FBI shooting through car doors, so I think about 10 inches of penetration will work for most people.

I did say somewhat superior... which to me is round capacity and ease of reloads, besides energy and penetration. The P380 is thinner and holds 6+1 and I carry a 7-round reload.

The .380 is a compromise, for sure, but I don't always need a larger pistol... at least I hope not. My usual carry is the P40 with 180-gr GDSB and I'm trying to adapt to my G30S with 230-gr GDSB, but it is quite a bit larger... and fatter. I don't like "boutique" ammo, especially the ones with lighter weights and higher velocities.

I like bonded bullets and only use the GD's or GDSB's and the bonded Remington Golden Sabers.

Wynn :)

12 inches is through whatever including nothing.
That's what it takes to get to vital organs on a reliable basis according to the FBI.
That's just the way it is...

[wyntrout]

I won't be shooting into jello and from most testing the hollowpoint usually gets filled with clothing material and then you get PLENTY of penetration!

Wynn :D

[Barth]

I won't be shooting into jello and from most testing the hollowpoint usually gets filled with clothing material and then you get PLENTY of penetration!

Wynn :D

FBI protocol testing isn't jello.
And if i were to carry a .380 ACP?
I'd likely use FMJs just to get acceptable penetration.
It's just an ice pick, but it's better than nothing - LOL!:tongue:

Barth

[mr surveyor]

FBI protocol testing isn't jello.
And if i were to carry a .380 ACP?
I'd likely use FMJs just to get acceptable penetration.
It's just an ice pick, but it's better than nothing - LOL!:tongue:

Barth

That's exactly my feelings on the .32 acp. I bought my wife a KT P32 about 10 years ago, and she still won't let me get rid of it. It's never failed, so I guess that's o.k. I do keep one CorBon HP chambered, and one on the top of the stack. Not only because of the risk of "rim lock" in the .32 acp magazine do I only load the top one with a HP, but also I figure if the two hollow points don't have enough punch she should eventually get down to the ice picks that will.

I've had a couple of .380's over the years, and just never had a warm and fuzzy feeling for them.

jd

[Armybrat]

When is somebody gonna do tests with the CT380? That little bugger has a 3" barrel which should make a difference from the shorter CW/P380.

I'm totin' mine with Hornady Critical Defense 90gr. FTX - it runs real smooth with those.

[kwh]

Just my opinion,but in the .380 compared to the 9mm it is more difficult to have BOTH expansion and adequate penetration. Penetration trumps expansion. Until a superior bullet is "proven", I will keep the XTP in both my Kahr CW380 and Walther PP. My Daughter uses LeHigh in her Walther PK380 and XTP in herCW Kahr. All run 100%.
I too would like to see results on the longer barrel .380's. Seems like the .380's are catching up to the snub nose .38's.

[wyntrout]

I don't want FMJ's that blow through the BG or ricochet like crazy for long distances. I WANT my bullets to stop in the BG. If you want to shoot at angled windshields, ATK found that the hollow points cut holes through the glass without much deflection and hit the dummies reliably, unlike the FMJ's which were deflected badly. The edge of JHP ammo caught on the glass and punched straight through. There are tests through clothing and a 45° angled and 15 ° canted windshield.

ATK ammo testing available at this link:

http://www.kiesler.com/videodetail.aspx?id=1534

Wynn :)

[TD2K]

TD, I'm 60, be 61 next month, you think I'm too old for you? I still have my own teeth, well some of them anyhow.


naaaaaah.

[Bawanna]

Thanks, I feel a bit better now. It's a dreadful Monday for me. I think I might need a new job very soon, almost thrown in the towel 2 or 3 times already. New computer program that is beyond stupid and way too complicated for cops or relocated Missouri dirt farmers.

Welcome To Wal Mart, get your stuff and get out. I could be a door greeter.

[TD2K]

I got a promotion on Aug 1. They now call me the VP. I have NO idea what I'm supposed to be doing.

[Bawanna]

That's exactly where I am. I didn't get a promotion, only a daily supply of Advil but now after doing what I do for 18 years I have no idea how to do it anymore. Great program.

As for the VP thing, just act and look important. Put lots of papers and crap on your desk and look overwhelmed whenever anybody has a question.

[jocko]

Thanks, I feel a bit better now. It's a dreadful Monday for me. I think I might need a new job very soon, almost thrown in the towel 2 or 3 times already. New computer program that is beyond stupid and way too complicated for cops or relocated Missouri dirt farmers.

Welcome To Wal Mart, get your stuff and get out. I could be a door greeter.

THEY DID AWAY WITH DOOR GREATERS COLONEL. u COULD GET A JOB AT sam's THEY HAVE A DOOR CHECKER TO VERIFY THAT YOU DIDN'T steal aything and with your past experience, u should be a shoe in. Just sayin



get well muggsy

[Bawanna]

Actually I need windows to look out, we don't got Sams but we got Costco but just a cement building and can't see outside.

Maybe it's time to just go to pasture so I can just hang out and belly ache on forums all day long, in between naps of course.

Maybe I could stock lower shelves at night or something.

[jocko]

Actually I need windows to look out, we don't got Sams but we got Costco but just a cement building and can't see outside.

Maybe it's time to just go to pasture so I can just hang out and belly ache on forums all day long, in between naps of course.

Maybe I could stock lower shelves at night or something.

you would have to be able to readf to stock lower shelves colonel. Best stay where u are. The violets would miss ur pleasanness!!!!! Just sayin


GET WELL MUGGSY

[Bawanna]

Crap, didn't think of that. Don't the stuff got pictures on it to tell what it is.

Actually I was thinking womans lingerie would be my best area. Ya think.

[getsome]

Why don't you quit the Police Department, tell the violets to shove it and start making something like this except for power chairs....You would make a killing....

http://wtvr.com/2015/08/03/robbie-maddo-maddison-makes-history-as-first-to-surf-on-motorcycle/

The video gets interesting after 45 seconds or so....

[Bawanna]

I long for the day to do just that but I don't know about building no surfing motorscooter.

[GROTMAN]

Thanks, I feel a bit better now. It's a dreadful Monday for me. I think I might need a new job very soon, almost thrown in the towel 2 or 3 times already. New computer program that is beyond stupid and way too complicated for cops or relocated Missouri dirt farmers.

Welcome To Wal Mart, get your stuff and get out. I could be a door greeter.
If you get that job at Walmart don't make the same mistake this guy did..
I finally landed a job as a Wal-Mart greeter, which is a good find for many retirees, unfortunately I lasted less than a day.

About two hours into my first day on the job a very loud, unattractive, mean-acting woman walked into the store with her two kids, yelling obscenities at them all the way through the entrance. Per my greeter training manual I said pleasantly, “Good morning and welcome to Wal-Mart.” “Nice children you have there. Are they twins?”

The ugly woman stopped yelling long enough to say, “Hell no, they ain’t twins. The oldest one is 9, and the other one is 7. Why the hell would you think they’re twins? Are you blind, or just stupid?”
So I replied, “I’m neither blind nor stupid, madam. I just couldn’t believe someone slept with you twice. Have a good day and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart.”

My supervisor said I probably wasn’t cut out for this line of work.

[martkin64]

Every day.... except for work. Not allowed. .. but I have a duty as a husband and a Dad... ro keep my family safe.... that might seem funny to say but there is some crazy S*#@$ going on these days. .

[Bawanna]

Amen brother, Amen!