PM45 slide defect???

[lwilliams]

The first dissembly and discovered this "defect". It is the area in the picture where the recoil springs seats. Is this normal or do I need to call Kahr on Monday?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/larrykwilliams/IMG_0876_zpsjvpntimk.jpg

[Bawanna]

It used to be quite normal, a little half circle that they neglected to machine out for clearance.
Yours was machined but apparently not enough. It will basically fix itself but myself I'd take a dremel or a chainsaw file and just clean it up kind of purty.

You can of course call and have them do it but really not worth the time and effort. Easy quick fix. Really shouldn't effect function.

[b4uqzme]

See posts 11 and 12 (with pics). Hope that helps.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?14749-CW45-(and-other-poly-45)-issues-and-fixes/page2

[CJB]

Its more cosmetic than anything, but, you'd not want a flake or chip of metal getting into things if it broke off. Basically, its the intersection of three cuts (at least). The barrel "bushing" area is an angled cut, that allows the barrel to tilt as it comes out of the locked position, and its that angle that creates the thin section which will sometimes break away.

The Col. was right... they ususally machine that little semicircle cleanup in that space...

If it were mine I'd clean it up myself, its not critical. You just want to get rid of the really thin bits that might break off, and leave a little edge thats a little thicker.

[lwilliams]

Wow......this is hard to believe. I went with the PM one the CM because I was told how much more work goes into all the "metal". You would thing that Q&A would make sure this was perfect before it left the factory!

BTW......thanks for the info. That helps a lot.

[b4uqzme]

Wow....this is hard to believe. Three senior members come to help you with your question within minutes of your post and are rewarded with a BTW thank-you and disparaging comments about the forum brand.

BTW. You're welcome.

[lwilliams]

Wow....this is hard to believe. Three senior members come to help you with your question within minutes of your post and are rewarded with a BTW thank-you and disparaging comments about the forum brand.

BTW. You're welcome.

I don't understand the chastising.....at all. No offense was intended. I was and am incredulous that a high end purchase gets to the consumer in this condition.....therefore, my leading comments reflected that.

I meant no slight by adding the thanks at the end. I wanted to make sure to thank those who helped. The help was most assuredly appreciated.

As for the brand, this is my first Kahr. I have many other brands. So I have no basis upon which to judge and, therefore, do not. I am not bashing Kahr....after all, I bought it. I would not have done so had I not felt secure with my confidence in the company.

So, again, many thanks to you all. I come to forums, and am a member of many, for the camaraderie and occasional help. I am and will always be willing to lend any help that I can as well.

If you were offended, I apologize.

:amflag:

[Bawanna]

I think that may have come across more abrasive than it was meant.

We really do understand your dismay in expecting a perfect gun since it's the top end model.

They really are much better in the last few years than they were in the past. What you have was quite common for awhile, haven't seen that or heard of it in quite some time.

It's not good but it's a simple fix and many here of course feel the guns are good enough to warrant a little fine tuning and fixing if necessary.

[b4uqzme]

I merely mirrored your post so you could see how others read them. I would have preferred a simple thank-you but it's no big deal. Have you filed the slide yet? It shouldn't take but a minute.

[yqtszhj]

Most important thing, get some good American made fmj ammo and go shoot it. You're going to like the gun. Make sure to lube it good during the first couple of time out.

Welcome to the forum.

[CJB]

Wow......this is hard to believe. I went with the PM one the CM because I was told how much more work goes into all the "metal". You would thing that Q&A would make sure this was perfect before it left the factory!

BTW......thanks for the info. That helps a lot.

What you'll find harder to believe than, is the CW/CM line is no more "expensive" to produce as the P/CW line. The off the line cost difference wouldn't get a cup of coffee at DD.

There are post production cost savings, packaging, the extra magazines, so that does amount to a bit more "cost" for Kahr.

You have to understand, that a major part of the cost is time of production, how long it actually takes. The extra machine cuts cost no more than the time it takes to produce them... insignificant, as both are cut fully automatically. The engraving (if it is... and I have my doubts, more on that another time) vs roll marking, very slight time difference, but not much. The front sight system is a wash as far as time goes... The slide stop LEVER is NOT MACHINED on the P/PM line. The LEVER is a MIM part that has a pin added to it. That pin is a special tough steel and is held to the lever with a blind pin. So you have a ground pin put into a hole thats probably been cleaned up, and a cross hole for the blind pin. Thats as far as the machining goes. But, that takes time, so there is a little time there, but, no doubt they are made on nearly fully automated machinery, and they can run off a huge amount during the same time it takes to produce only a few hundred slides - which keeps the cost, in terms of time, very low. Its the 'off the line" time that really matters the most, and making the "machined" slide stops does not appreciably add to the off the line cost.

What you have, is classic in marketing and manufacturing: downmarket scaling

What determines the cost of any item in the marketplace? Cost of production? No. Materials? No. Labor? No.

What determines the cost of any item is what the consumer is willing to pay for it. Green martians could pay Kahr a thousand dollars each to make pistols, and they'd still sell them at the pricing they are at - because folks in the market will pay. But what happens when the market shrinks? You develop a new market through downmarket scaling. Highlight the unique features of your upmarket product, create new features that are stylistically subdued, and reduce profits a bit in hopes of selling more product to cover losses. That is, lower the gross profit percentage, per unit, but keep the net profit dollars of total production the same.

But, the market is gullable, and greedy, and unknowing, and... thats why both product lines are able to co-exist. And folks expect so much more for their money with the better product, that that just don't see the real differences.

Put another way, the little hanging chad of metal on the PM line is a ghastly and worrisome anomoly. Same chad on the CM line, and its "hey what do you expect, its the cheap pistol". Where in reality, both slides were made by the same robot, programmed to perform tasks differently using slightly different tools at time, and both sets of programming are perfected, and its nothing more than tooling wear, or some production casualty that randomly produces less than perfect results. And the inspectors are the same folks, and they don't use higher criteria for one product or the other. Both must be perfect according to their specification. What inspectors do, being human, is make mistakes, or get focused looking for flaw that has been known to recently occcur, while overlooking minor items.

Just some food for thought.

[CJB]

Let me give you the rest...

What happens if the upmarket just dies. I mean totally withers?

Why then you improve the downmarket product... making a new upmarket, without totally eliminating your real upmarket line.

Here's how it works. You got a PM line. You got a CM line. The CM's sell well, but the PM's don't. In fact, you sell like 10 CM's for every 1 PM. You want to make more money. What to do? Hmm. You create a product with ONE feature of the PM line that your research says people want. Lets say its the dovetail front sight. Ok, you take the dovetail sight, add it to the CM, call it the CMX line, and charge an extra price premium for it. It costs you nothing more to make. You sell lots and lots of CM2s and still sell quite a few CMs and well the PM's are not looking so good, but they remain as a flagship. In fact you raise the price on 'em, and do maybe one production run a year just to fill that little market need, as the upscale market has dwindled. Hey, boom times come back.... you can discontinue the CM, keep the CM2 and sell more PMs again. This is all just the way it is.

[yqtszhj]

And that there is the fickled psychology of marketing.

I know a guy that is a home builder. He was talking about the first house he built in an upscale lake area. When he built it he added all the nice things people in that market liked. He offered it for sale for less than all of his competition. It sat on the market until all the interest ate up his profits.

He didn't know what to do so just not to go into the hole he raised the price 20%. It sold in one week. He said the people in that market were going to spend their entire buying budget and his house was too cheap. Since that time he has charged a premium price and has had no problem selling to the lake crowd. Go figure.