Carry your gun. EVERY. DAY.

[TD2K]

We just had this discussion about carrying your gun the other day, thought I'd share what happened today.

Someone broke in our office and shop early this morning. Rummaged thru everything, but didn't take anything really. They peeled back the sheet metal and busted thru the drywall in my office. They used a mold as a "ladder" and climbed in thru a fan opening in the shop and went thru all the employee lockers.

When our shop supervisor arrived about 5:30 to open up as usual, he went about his normal routine. He sure didn't expect anyone to be inside (bad guy didn't call or email us and let us know he's be breaking into our plant). The alarm had not gone off (motion detectors didn't work apparently and they didn't break in thru any doors to set off the sensors). They were still in side and I guess he surprised them. They hit him over the head and took his wallet, ran off down the street. Supervisor is OK, just a big knot on his head behind his ear.
We are very thankful that the supervisor is OK. It could have been a LOT worse. I'm usually that opens the plant, but with the heat of the summer they've been coming in an hour early so this particular supervisor has been unlocking daily.

I say all of this to remind everyone to be aware when going into your home or your office. Someone very well could be inside, you need to be ready.

And people think I'm crazy for carrying a gun to work everyday.

CARRY. EVERY. DAY.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12908&stc=1

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12909&stc=1


http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12907&stc=1

[OldFatGuy]

Looks like someone knew about the motion sensors. Glad no one was seriously injured. Scary though.

[berettabone]

I'm sure the supervisor will not go through his "daily" routine anymore. Always be aware of your surroundings.........................glad everyone is ok.

[kwh]

Good reminder. When it happens , it happens Quick.

[Harrylee]

That’s not a to uncommon break in, some years ago they put a development in of houses around my area in and instead of plywood for sheathing they used blue foam board and vinyl siding over that. They all had security systems but the crooks just cut thru the vinyl siding with a knife and kicked in the foam board and no alarms went off. As far as everyday carry I’m in the middle of ripping my roof off and while on my roof rest assured I have a double stack 45 under my shirt, must say being on top of the roof gives you a good view I see too many people around that have a permit that don’t carry everyday. If your going to commit then always carry is the way I feel, was even thinking of getting a SneakyPete to put on my tool belt

[deadeye]

Glad you are all ok. I live in a rural area not all that far from you. Our crime rate is very low which lulls people into thinking it won't happen "here." Wanna bet? I carry all the time. If there is a gun free zone either I won't go there or carry anyway. As kwh said. When it happens, it happens quick.

[Ronni3_J]

Wow cracks heads must be getting smarter. Glad there were no major casualties


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bawanna]

I had a special bag on my nail bags back in my vertical carpenter days. Had a velcro closure flap. Blue nylon matched the other bags. When the bags came off it went right into the belt holster. Worked pretty well.

Never was fond of roofin much though. Get that job done and move on to something better.

[RRP]

What if it was you who unlocked the shop, TD2K, and you were carrying a G34. What would you have done when you spotted the thug(s)?

I often think about these scenarios and about how I would respond. We hope it never happens but, as you point out, it does. Having a planned response increases our chances of survival.

Glad no one got seriously hurt.

The thugs should be glad you didn't open the shop today!

[JohnR]

Cultural entropy accelerates, and there's nothing stopping it. We need to flush the world's toilet soon and wash our hands.

[SlowBurn]

Good reminder. When it happens , it happens Quick.

+1. Thanks for the reminder.

[TD2K]

What if it was you who unlocked the shop, TD2K, and you were carrying a G34. What would you have done when you spotted the thug(s)?

I often think about these scenarios and about how I would respond. We hope it never happens but, as you point out, it does. Having a planned response increases our chances of survival.

Glad no one got seriously hurt.

The thugs should be glad you didn't open the shop today!

I ALWAYS have my G19. I usually DO open, but during the summer they come in an hour early so this supervisor has been opening in my place.

I have no doubt in my mind that how I would have reacted. We probably would have been hauling him out in a bag.

[TD2K]

Glad you are all ok. I live in a rural area not all that far from you. Our crime rate is very low which lulls people into thinking it won't happen "here." Wanna bet? I carry all the time. If there is a gun free zone either I won't go there or carry anyway. As kwh said. When it happens, it happens quick.

near OKC?

I live in Norman, but the plant is in NE OKC by the Capitol and Guv's Mansion. GREAT part of town.

[knkali]

thank you for sharing and glad everyone is OK.

[berettabone]

:)
I ALWAYS have my G19. I usually DO open, but during the summer they come in an hour early so this supervisor has been opening in my place.

I have no doubt in my mind that how I would have reacted. We probably would have been hauling him out in a bag.

Hopefully, he would have been armed, otherwise, it would have been you they were hauling out to jail. You probably could have found something that he had as a weapon??????????:rolleyes:

[Alfonse]

:)

Hopefully, he would have been armed, otherwise, it would have been you they were hauling out to jail. You probably could have found something that he had as a weapon??????????:rolleyes:

Your life can be in danger without the assailant or assailants being armed. They were bold enough to hit him in the head and rob him. There is no telling what else they might have done.

[TD2K]

I'm a middle aged girl and he was a man CLEARLY hyped up on something. He was totally wigging out. he had a weapon in his hand. I know the laws.

[TD2K]

he had our supervisor cornered in the locker room, was standing at the door not willing to let him out. had that been me, I know how I would have reacted.

[TD2K]

Had it been your wife/girlfriend/daughter put in the same situation our supervisor was put in, how would you want her to react?

[Alfonse]

TD2K, It sounds like you would have reacted very appropriately to me.

[muggsy]

There's a thing called disparity of force. All that TD2k needed was a fear of being killed or great bodily harm. Because she is smaller and weaker than most men she has a green light to shoot particularly in her own castle.

[b4uqzme]

:)

Hopefully, he would have been armed, otherwise, it would have been you they were hauling out to jail. You probably could have found something that he had as a weapon??????????:rolleyes:

I see the sarcasm emoticon berettab but that post was a little off track. Serious subject matter and I'm grateful everyone is OK.

[Bobshouse]

There's a thing called disparity of force. All that TD2k needed was a fear of being killed or great bodily harm. Because she is smaller and weaker than most men she has a green light to shoot particularly in her own castle.

But what about the fear and possibility of having your entire life savings drained by the lawyers explaining to the jury about your right to use deadly force when in fear for your life?

[TD2K]

and what if you DON'T do anything and get dead.

I have been trained, I know the law, and I have the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network to back my decision to fight to stay alive.

[Bawanna]

And if your derelict cyber husband bawanna was there, poor defenseless god fearing soul that he is we'd be even better.

I should have been there, I should be there, I'm sorry I'm not already there.

Stay alive, deal with the bottom feeding scum sucking lawyers later.

[Bobshouse]

Oh, I agree with ya'll 100 percent... Just trying to throw in a curve ball to see how everyone was going to react...

[b4uqzme]

But what about the fear and possibility of having your entire life savings drained by the lawyers explaining to the jury about your right to use deadly force when in fear for your life?

^^^ there's a statement from someone who shouldn't carry. And that's OK. It's not for everybody. Curveball and all.

[muggsy]

But what about the fear and possibility of having your entire life savings drained by the lawyers explaining to the jury about your right to use deadly force when in fear for your life?

What's worth more to you. Your money or your life? I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. Dead men don't get to testify in court. I had to give up a part of my life to have the things that I own. Anyone who demonstrates a willingness to take a part of my life is in grave danger of losing his. Don't tread on me.

[getsome]

Glad you and your coworker are ok TD2K....If you have the slightest doubt about what will happen to you if you are forced to use your weapon then you shouldn't be carrying a gun....I'm too old to fight and too fat to run so if someone makes me fear for my or my families safety then that person is going to have a weapon pointed at them and if they continue the threat they will be shot, period....If you carry a handgun you better have it squared away in your head what you're going to do and be sure you have the will to pull that trigger if need be because as someone else has already said, when danger comes it comes fast and hard and if you hesitate or think too much it might just get you killed....

[berettabone]

I'm really glad that everyone here just wants to start shooting. I GUARANTEE, that if you shoot an unarmed person, you will go to prison, be bankrupted or both.............I don't care who your lawyer is. Apparently, some people have less thought of quality of life than others. Who is to say that the whole scenario would or wouldn't have been different if TD2K would have opened up instead of the manager. Everybody just wants to start shooting. She may not have gotten knocked on the head, because she's more aware of her surroundings........................maybe he would have gone to the floor with just seeing her and her firearm. She may have held him until LE arrived. IF all you want to do is start shooting, maybe YOUR the one who shouldn't be carrying. Bobshouse just asked a simple question, and you people jump all over his back. Just because someone breaks in to your place of business, unfortunately, it doesn't give you the right to shoot them, unless they have a weapon. Getting hit over the head qualifies as a life threatening situation. If they have a weapon, it's a life threatening situation.....anything else, you start shooting, your a damn fool.

[jocko]

Alot of Macho talk here, my point is until it happens we never know how we will react. In todays mentalaity, if its white on white, ur OK, if its white on Black you might just hesistate a split second because of all the bull sh!t these past couple years. Just sayin. and then ur dead. B e prepared but please dont be stupid.All lives should matter, but at this time, that slogan is seldom heard to,, compared to Black lives matter..

[berettabone]

and what if you DON'T do anything and get dead.

I have been trained, I know the law, and I have the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network to back my decision to fight to stay alive.

You won't get any argument from me, but we would be talking about a whole different scenario if you would have opened up instead of your supervisor. Everybody just wants to start shooting right away without thinking about the scenario. It's what happened to your boss, not you. If it had been you, it most likely would have turned out differently. No knock on the head..........held at gunpoint until............

[Bawanna]

Or it could have gone exactly the same. Maybe the supervisor didn't see them and got whacked on the head.

Then it would have been TD2K whacked on the head gun in holster hopefully completely unnoticed by the perps. This would have offended me deeply and there would not be a place anywhere for them to hide that I wouldn't find them and deal them appropriate justice.

[berettabone]

Oh, I agree with ya'll 100 percent... Just trying to throw in a curve ball to see how everyone was going to react...

You'll find that a lot of "gun people", and "second amenders" are on your side until you question their priorities or responsibilities, then they tell you that maybe you shouldn't carry a firearm because you DO think about the consequences. These same people wonder why the anti gunners are always a thorn in their side.....usually it's because they give them ammunition:(

[Bawanna]

I think your way over reacting beretta, I really do.

Some of the post here could probably be written better but the implied scenario is the supervisor got hit in the head, so a weapon is there. TD2K mentions her training which to the average person would imply that she would consider the shoot or dont shoot option.

Not shooting and holding for police especially multiple bad guys is a risky situation but one has to do it once the threat is not longer active.

I don't see where anyone jumped on Bobshouse either. If he feels that way I'd like to apologize for the whole gang, again I don't think it was meant that way.

[b4uqzme]

I'm really glad that everyone here just wants to start shooting. I GUARANTEE, that if you shoot an unarmed person, you will go to prison, be bankrupted or both.............I don't care who your lawyer is...

I politely ask that you back that statement up with some proof. I repeat: serious subject matter that requires serious consideration. I don't want it on my head that I instilled the thread of doubt into someone's head that got them killed. Nor do I want to offer unqualified legal advice.

I retract the comment about not qualified to carry. We all must make our own decisions. The post I responded to described a mindset no worse than not carrying at all...so my comment wasn't necessary.

[Bobshouse]

^^^ there's a statement from someone who shouldn't carry. And that's OK. It's not for everybody. Curveball and all.

Well, now that I've dried my eyes and blown my nose in an attempt to compose myself...

Yes, b4uqzme, I carry, nationwide.

[Bobshouse]

I think your way over reacting beretta, I really do.

Some of the post here could probably be written better but the implied scenario is the supervisor got hit in the head, so a weapon is there. TD2K mentions her training which to the average person would imply that she would consider the shoot or dont shoot option.

Not shooting and holding for police especially multiple bad guys is a risky situation but one has to do it once the threat is not longer active.

I don't see where anyone jumped on Bobshouse either. If he feels that way I'd like to apologize for the whole gang, again I don't think it was meant that way.


Seriously, there is nothing or nobody here that can say or do anything that will ruffle my feathers. 27 years of being around convicts does that to a person. Strange thing is during those 27 years, I've still to meet a person who was guilty of the crime committed, as found by the courts.

[Bawanna]

Amen brother. The name Pitocco mean anything to you. He was or may even still be around.

[TD2K]

Meanwhile, this happened later the same day, just up the street from our plant.

http://www.news9.com/story/29888857/okc-pastor-shoots-at-burglary-suspect-attempts-to-hold-him-at-gunpoint

(http://www.news9.com/story/29888857/okc-pastor-shoots-at-burglary-suspect-attempts-to-hold-him-at-gunpoint)and someone needs to tell the pastor he can't "shoot at" a fleeing suspect. *sigh*

OKLAHOMA CITY - A church pastor shot at an attempted robbery suspect, then attempted to hold him at gunpoint until police arrived at his church on Northeast 50th and M.L.K.
But, that suspect took off on foot when police showed up. And an unsuspecting homeowner found the man in his backyard.
News 9 talked to pastor Kenneth Morgan at his church. He said he was in his office getting ready for mid-week service when he heard something in the church's dining area.

He was armed and ready when he went to go check it out. The pastor's presence scared the suspect and he took off outside.
“The pastor held the burglar at gunpoint. He laid down in the grass, at some point then decided to run off as we were arriving,” said Lt. Michelle Holland, OCPD.
That's when police say one shot was fired by Pastor Morgan at the suspect.
Then, the search was on for a man who somehow how made his way inside The Church of the Living God. Air One was in the air and dozens of officers were on the ground.
“When I came home it was helicopters everywhere,” said nearby homeowner Clarence Thomas.
Clarence Thomas, at home with his wife didn't know what was going on. They saw a breaking news scroll across their TV screen.
The suspect was on the run in his neighborhood.
“I said, well, I better go look in my backyard just to be sure,” said Thomas.
And Clarence was not prepared for what he was about to see.
“And I looked and I started to go back in the house, and I walked right here and I saw him laying right there beside that brick wall,” said Thomas.
He eased back inside his home and called 911.
“Within two minutes, it was 20 police cars here, and they took care of him,” said Thomas.
Pastor Morgan says in his 10 years as a licensed gun carrier, this was the first time he's had to use it at his church.
Pastor Morgan says the suspect, who has not been identified, told him he was looking for food and something to drink.
As far as police know, the man didn't actually take anything out of the church.



(http://www.news9.com/story/29888857/okc-pastor-shoots-at-burglary-suspect-attempts-to-hold-him-at-gunpoint)

[muggsy]

I don't like weak sisters. The left doesn't need ammunition from the right to go after our guns. We have the 2nd amendment to counter any argument that they can proffer. Gun ownership and self-defense are a God given constitutional rights.

[TD2K]

Or it could have gone exactly the same. Maybe the supervisor didn't see them and got whacked on the head.

Then it would have been TD2K whacked on the head gun in holster hopefully completely unnoticed by the perps. This would have offended me deeply and there would not be a place anywhere for them to hide that I wouldn't find them and deal them appropriate justice.

The supervisor (M) saw him. M was in the locker room starting to change, d00d came in and had him cornered. Only one way out. M tried to get him to go outside and leave, kept saying the other guys would be here any minute, they were outside parking, then d00d hit him over the head and literally ripped the back half of his pants off in order to take his wallet. When we got here, it looked like M had on chaps. No back left on his pants. Poor guy.

I'm certainly not advocating to shoot first, ask questions later. As I teach in my classes, knive, gun, tire iron, pipe, etc are weapons, and hands can also be a weapon. As someone else mentioned, disparity of force also plays a part, especially when it's black guy vs. white girl as it would have been in my case had I opened Wednesday.

[berettabone]

I politely ask that you back that statement up with some proof. I repeat: serious subject matter that requires serious consideration. I don't want it on my head that I instilled the thread of doubt into someone's head that got them killed. Nor do I want to offer unqualified legal advice.

I retract the comment about not qualified to carry. We all must make our own decisions. The post I responded to described a mindset no worse than not carrying at all...so my comment wasn't necessary.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-ohio-cop-indicted-murder-body-cam-released-shows-kill-unarmed-man/ Would you like more????????????? I can find hundreds...........figured I'd start in your state.

[EvanLee]

This is the video I always show to people who don't think they need a gun to protect themselves.

Not safe for work and some audiences - language and violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyN3IKLGkR8


And then, I show 'em this one. Kinda cute and funny, but tells the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCBNOFmr4nw

[jpshaw]

I carry "A" gun every day but sometimes, depending on dress, it's just my little Keltec .380 in the pocket.

[muggsy]

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-ohio-cop-indicted-murder-body-cam-released-shows-kill-unarmed-man/ Would you like more????????????? I can find hundreds...........figured I'd start in your state.

The man wasn't unarmed. He was driving a 2,000 pound automobile. If I'm on that cops jury he walks and I pin a medal on him. Criminals don't play by the rules. They don't give a damn about your life, your pain, or your family. If you're looking for sympathy for these miscreants you'll find it in the dictionary between excrement a syphilis. I guarantee that they wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet into you.

[TD2K]

Taken straight from my conceal carry class slide show

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12910&stc=1

[DavidR]

This is the video I always show to people who don't think they need a gun to protect themselves.

Not safe for work and some audiences - language

Well, if that happened to me at least I'd know how well the Lehigh ammo works.


Dave

[TD2K]

I always show this video in my classes. It says a LOT about mindset. Pay close attention to what Lance says about "it wasn't his decision. my life is too precious"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

[EvanLee]

I always show this video in my classes. It says a LOT about mindset. Pay close attention to what Lance says about "it wasn't his decision. my life is too precious"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

AWESOME video. :Amflag2:

My hat's off to him. :yo:

[getsome]

+1....Excellent video...I love his last statement, "Do I feel safer? I just want to feel alive".....that says it all......Thanks TD2K for posting that

[muggsy]

My attitude exactly.

[berettabone]

The man wasn't unarmed. He was driving a 2,000 pound automobile. If I'm on that cops jury he walks and I pin a medal on him. Criminals don't play by the rules. They don't give a damn about your life, your pain, or your family. If you're looking for sympathy for these miscreants you'll find it in the dictionary between excrement a syphilis. I guarantee that they wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet into you.

I never said he was a pillar of society.........................did you watch the video? Apparently. with your way of thinking, if I come up to YOUR car window, and you drive away, I can shoot you in the head. That's what happened. Was it right? No. Was it illegal? Yes. We all know how you feel about LE and the guy in the car. Still didn't give the LE a right to shoot him in the head. The officer's statements contradict what was in his report. He wasn't dragged down the street. It really doesn't matter what these criminals think of me, you still can't shoot someone for no reason, it's simple really. We all understand that criminals don't play by the rules. It doesn't matter in a court of law. The next time a bicyclist swerves to avoid hitting you, please don't hesitate to shoot him, because his cycle is a weapon, and even though he's not armed, shoot him anyway........your rules, not societies. What if that would have been your daughter, and she pulled away, and made a foolish mistake, and they shot her in the head. Change your thinking? GET WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[b4uqzme]

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-ohio-cop-indicted-murder-body-cam-released-shows-kill-unarmed-man/ Would you like more????????????? I can find hundreds...........figured I'd start in your state.

Sure. I don't see how this one proves your point. If I recall the point you are trying to make is that had TD2K switched places with her supervisor and wound up shooting the intruder, you guarantee her prison, bankruptcy or both.

[berettabone]

Sure. I don't see how this one proves your point. If I recall the point you are trying to make is that had TD2K switched places with her supervisor and wound up shooting the intruder, you guarantee her prison, bankruptcy or both.

-------With no weapon-------With no weapon, that's exactly what I am saying.................the guy in the car/video didn't have a weapon either....................................IF the intruder would have had a weapon, different story..........apparently, the intruder had some sort of weapon in the supervisors case, but apparently, some members here think that you can shoot them, weapon or not. I say, no weapon=prison, period. Even if you take the Castle Doctrine in to account, we have had 2 recent cases up here. One was a guy who was drunk, and he went in to someone's enclosed porch...........the owner woke up, saw him, and shot him............even with the Castle Doctrine in place here, the guy still went to prison. He shot an unarmed person. Another case involved someone trying to steal a guy's car off of his own property. The owner grabbed his firearm, confronted the individual, the thief said something to him, and proceeded to start throwing rocks at the owner. The owner shot him, and he is currently serving his time. Bobhouse brought up a valid point, and you DO have to think about the repercussions of shooting someone. The OP also mentioned having insurance. I have yet to hear of any of the insurance that's out there, actually helping someone. It may very well be happening, but I personally haven't heard a thing. Point being.......the supervisor would have had every right to defend himself in that particular situation. We don't know what the situation would have been if the OP would have opened that morning, but I believe that if she would have been confronted by these individual/s, not armed, and she would have shot someone, the OP is going to prison. You start dealing with some of these DA's across the country, who don't like citizens owning firearms and protecting themselves, they will come up with all sorts of scenarios..........was the door open behind you? Why didn't you just run out the open door behind you. They were unarmed, why would you shoot an unarmed person? Was it really necessary? You feared for your life, even though these/this person was unarmed? Happens every day.

[Bawanna]

The lump on the supervisors head was obviously caused by the bad guys wits.

I think we're talking in circles here boys and girls.

[yqtszhj]

:)

Hopefully, he would have been armed, otherwise, it would have been you they were hauling out to jail. You probably could have found something that he had as a weapon??????????:rolleyes:

It all depends where you live. In my state if he illegally broke into your house or place of business and came toward you at all he could be shot and you would still likely make the lunch buffet if you had an appetite. Of course I live in the backyards SE you YMMV in your locale.

[yqtszhj]

Just because someone breaks in to your place of business, unfortunately, it doesn't give you the right to shoot them, unless they have a weapon.

Again, it depends where you live. Trust me, it happens here.

[OldLincoln]

Two situations, the employee hit on the head and the pastor who fired a shot. In the first, self-defense is clearly indicated and could likely be supported as the individual was attacked and injured which is a threat of further injury. If he couldn't defend himself the first attack why would he believe he could a further one.

The second incident, the pastor should be very thankful he did not shoot the fleeing suspect in the back when he ran. That is with the assumption the suspect was not armed. I live in CA and the pastor would very likely be charged with illegal discharge of a weapon at the least and attempted murder at the most. From what I read he was not assaulted. Theft is not a shooting crime. Assault is a potential shooting crime only if you cannot reasonably avoid it.

The burden of legalities is a very real issue that must be studied and understood. Those who say shoot their eyes out are the ones to be very cautious around (even if they are my friends). It's when the concern for your life and those you swear to protect overrules your concern for spending years in prison and your family bankrupted and without you to protect them is when to shoot. Think of it as a safety on your weapon of choice.

Bawanna may be the only one who remembers me from my initial visits here and my endless questions about self defense. Before I got serious about carry I studied very hard at real life examples of good, not so good, and disastrous self defense shootings. I learned to recognize the risk to both life and future in my actions. I've been called names with my belief that if someone outside my family wanted protection they would carry it. I am not a police officer nor any kind of public servant or hero. I and my family are alive and I consider that enough.

[kwh]

^What Old Lincoln said^

[muggsy]

I never said he was a pillar of society.........................did you watch the video? Apparently. with your way of thinking, if I come up to YOUR car window, and you drive away, I can shoot you in the head. That's what happened. Was it right? No. Was it illegal? Yes. We all know how you feel about LE and the guy in the car. Still didn't give the LE a right to shoot him in the head. The officer's statements contradict what was in his report. He wasn't dragged down the street. It really doesn't matter what these criminals think of me, you still can't shoot someone for no reason, it's simple really. We all understand that criminals don't play by the rules. It doesn't matter in a court of law. The next time a bicyclist swerves to avoid hitting you, please don't hesitate to shoot him, because his cycle is a weapon, and even though he's not armed, shoot him anyway........your rules, not societies. What if that would have been your daughter, and she pulled away, and made a foolish mistake, and they shot her in the head. Change your thinking? GET WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all I taught both of my sons respect for the law. Neither would have pulled a stunt like trying to flee the police. If a in his attempt to escape the law he killed your daughter as a result high speed police chase. Would that change your mind? The perp damn well didn't drive off after he was shot in the head. The perp contributed to his own death. In my opinion the video was inconclusive.

[Bobshouse]

Police are held responsible for the protection of the populous of their jurisdiction. Yet they are expected to hesitate just long enough before using deadly force to get themselves killed. Everyone wants to make it home to their family, which can be kinda hard to do when you give the bad guy first shot.

Plastic (or polymer for the purist) guns are difficult to distinguish from the toy variety, especially when one is being pointed at you. The orange tip put on toy guns (really a great idea...NOT) cause just that much more hesitation, and will get you killed just as fast when a bad guy paints a orange tip on a real gun.

That being said, on the other hand, a lot of people who seek police work have controlling type personalities. A lot of the severe controlling personality types get weeded out through the hiring process, but a few make it through.

Everyone can sit back and critique anything, but when it comes to self defense or any emergency situation, one of two things are going to happen, it's called "fight or flight". Your either going to try and get away, or your going to strike out and fight back. You can sit and talk about what your going to do if such and such happens, but you will really never know how you will actually respond until the situation arises. Training can give you confidence, but self preservation takes precedence. Yes, some people are born to lead, others to follow.

Communication skills? Lets save that for another post.

OK, flame retardant suit activated!

[b4uqzme]

Well said BH.

[SlowBurn]

Whether the bg is armed or not is only one factor. The question is whether from what you are confronted with, there's reason to fear imminent (ie immediate) death or great bodily harm. If so, deadly force is justified legally and morally.

[yqtszhj]

^What Old Lincoln said^

Agreed.

To go along with what i said about rights in my state to shoot if someone is breaking into your home or business the situation completely changes if you are outside of home. You or your family member better be faced with death or great bodily harm before you present a weapon, otherwise you could be facing time. And be sure not to interfere in someone elses domestic dispute using your firearm.

[Bawanna]

That's my Achilles heel. If I see somebody getting stomped, gang bangers picking on somebody or a lady in distress, I'm not driving by.

Not to say I'd just shoot somebody straight away but if they don't want to stop the evil and they deserve to be shot, I'll most likely ablige em.

If I'm in a school or mall and I see someone fixing to shoot folks, even if I'm not the one they are fixing to shoot, I'll most likely shoot em.

[OldLincoln]

Well hell, Bawanna, you're my friend!

[TheLastDaze]

I carry every moment I'm awake including while around the house in pj's, I have a P32 clipped to my pj's... 8 rounds of fmj aint nothing to sneeze at and allows me time to procure a rifle/shotgun or larger handgun, which ever comes first at my disposal....

glad your super is okay, could have turned worse, quickly.... being hit on the back of the head by a blunt instrument has killed and comatose many....