Why do the Kahr extended magazines exhibit problems?

[kahrinca]

There have been many anecdotal reports of for instance, the 6-rd PM9 magazines as relatively trouble-free, but if one has a feeding or other problem, it seems to occur almost without exception with the extended 7-rd magazines.

And the problem appears to be universal throughout the lines and calibers of Kahr.

What the heck is going on?

In the meantime, I've done the magazine test and magazine fix pursuant to the 'Proper Prep of a Kahr' Sticky...I had but one FTfeed out of 257 rounds fired about equally between two 6-rd and one 7-rd magazines in two range sessions. That FTfeed occurred with the 7-rd magazine with round #51 of the 150 rounds shot at that first range session. Since that initial range session have not had a problem after further sanding the follower a bit and as gun further breaks in.

What is the general concensus as to cause? Is there more than one cause? It really makes little sense as the 7-rd magazines do not seem to differ design-wise in any material respect from the 6-rd magazines.

What say you?

I know this is not an issue of first impression but keeping on topic here might be beneficial to all those interested in this occurrence and might consolidate some of the comments made elsewhere.

Does it persist for YOU well after break-in? If so, do you find yourself avoiding the use of those magazines?

This little 'mystery' has persisted throughout the years. It needs to be 'solved' once and for all. Not only Kahr customers are affected, those who are considering a Kahr may be sufficiently turned off from purchasing a Kahr firearm.

An example (sort of a 'turn-on' if you get my drift, with a corresponding 'turn-off' re Kahr pistols) follows. Range test is at 7:20:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCZu2LXTqbQ,

[deadeye]

Haven't tried a 7 rd mag in my CM9 but tried the Pearce magazine extensions on 3 of my 6 rd mags. No FTF's or FTE's but the slide would not lock back on the last round. Figured it was because of such close tolerances. Putting my little finger on the extension seemed to move the mag just far enough to cause the problem. Removed them and problem went away. Not exactly the same problem, but the results may be caused by the same thing.

[b4uqzme]

I don't think it's as bad as you say. I have several Kahr mags, different sizes, different calibers and they all run fine. But some have reported issues with extended mags and it makes sense that those shooters won't carry the offenders. It's no big deal really (?). If something doesn't work, don't use it.

[Alfonse]

I use extended mags quite a bit at the range and have never had a problem with them in any of my pistols.

I did have a standard mag not locking the slide back when pulling it back by hand in a K9 even though it works fine when shooting. When loading the pistol, I usually pull the slide back to lock open the pistol. Swapping out the follower, with another stock one or an aftermarket one, solved the problem.

[kahrinca]

I don't think it's as bad as you say. I have several Kahr mags, different sizes, different calibers and they all run fine. But some have reported issues with extended mags and it makes sense that those shooters won't carry the offenders. It's no big deal really (?). If something doesn't work, don't use it.

Is that similar to the expression: "If it's broke, don't fix it? :(

Part of any solution is acknowledging there's a problem. If it's merely a matter of break-in, that's one thing.

If not solely related to break-in, it appears there's a design or manufacturing type of defect re the extended magazines.

[kenemoore]

In my experience the extended mags work fine in my PM9, they all have issues in my PM45. In the 45, they don't seem to "lock up" correctly, I have to hold them in with my pinky to get them to work without feed issues.

[b4uqzme]

RE: "If it's broke, don't fix it."

No, it's just that for some people the ext mags indeed don't work...or they don't work well enough to be trusted for carry. I suspect that they may put enough pressure on the extended portion when gripping the gun to cause problems. But I don't know for sure because I've never had the issue myself. But, if I am correct, there is nothing to fix with the magazines.

But if you can find something to fix to get the extended magazines working for all shooters then, great! The springs are different right? Maybe look into that? What else is different? Could the baseplates cause the issue? The only other difference I can think of is the amount that sticks out below the gun. I know the fix for that...use the shorter mags. I hope that makes my comment more palatable for you. Good luck.

[Ron AZ]

Have 2 P380's. Both run well with 6 rd mags with many different ammos. 7 rd mags run well with 2 different FMJ ammos & my carry HP's.But if I go to some other ammos & and there is a problem ... it is always in the extented 7rd mags. One brand of FMJ's will cause at least 1 failure every full mag of 7 rd'ers but runs perfect with the 6 rd mags.

[hardluk1]

I have a cm9 and a cw9 I have used a 8 round mag in mainly as back up for carry but I have run a few hundred rounds thru it in both a cm9 and cw9 to know it functions 100% reliably. Never tried a extended version 7 rounder but again I have used the regular 7 rounders from the cw9 in my cm9 reliably also . With both I use the longer mag as a finger rest to extend my grip .

[muggsy]

I have nothing to back this up, but I feel that the pressure applied to the magazine by the little finger could be causing the feeding problems with the extended mags. Pressure to the grip should only be applied by the middle two fingers of the strong hand just as they do when you are shooting with the six round mags. I never cared for the extended mags and traded the one that I had for another six round.

[kahrinca]

I have nothing to back this up, but I feel that the pressure applied to the magazine by the little finger could be causing the feeding problems with the extended mags. Pressure to the grip should only be applied by the middle two fingers of the strong hand just as they do when you are shooting with the six round mags. I never cared for the extended mags and traded the one that I had for another six round.
Assuming that your theory is a correct one, it's totally unacceptable. A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.

[bilbo]

FWIW, I have two 7 rounders (newer MK720s unmodified) that have worked fine with my CM9. 200 or so rounds through each without issue.

[OvalNut]

I have not had this problem with my PM9 (PM9193), and I shoot it often. I bought extra magazines for range work, and installed the Pearce grip extensions on the 6 round magazines, and also shoot 7 round magazines as well. All with no concerns.

My $0.02


Tim

[JimBianchi]

I have three Kahr pistols.

My MK9 had no issues until I tried a panic-style reload. With 7 and 8 rd mags, it would jam if I held the gun so tight my pinky pushes hard againt the bottom of the mag. Jam.

K9 no issues with 8rd mags, I just don't like to carry it, so I carry two spare 7rd mags.

CM9 was intermittent with 7 and 8 rd mags. Finally, it broke the follower on my 8rd mag. (I have 10 mags total) I have not replaced the 8rd mag follower, only because it was a range mag and I have so many extras. (I did swap out a 6rd follower for a the broken 8rd follower and it work perfect, FYI)

My CM9 is 100% reliable with all 6 of my 6rd mags, three have followers that are smoothed/no hump, three are stock. Two are flat base plate, four have the pinky extension. It is the smallest gun I carry. and I carry a lot, second only to my G26. Love the CM9.

[hardluk1]

Can't prove it hurts to apply pressure on the longer mags by me . I have done it for close to 10 to ten years with 0 problems . If anything maybe problem is with the piece of added plastic kahr use's for a mag base on the extended mags .

[O'Dell]

I seem to remember that some have had issues with extended mags ever since I bought my first Kahr about 12 years ago. Consequently, I have never used one. My PM9 was ordered with 2 six rounders but also came with a seven so I gave it away. To me any extended mag hinders conceallability so I never use one in any pistol. Even my FS 1911 has 7 round mags because that's the way JMB designed it.

[b4uqzme]

Assuming that your theory is a correct one, it's totally unacceptable. A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.

Ahh, that's what I suspected you were fishing for... ;)

[kahrinca]

Assuming that your theory is a correct one, it's totally unacceptable. A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.
Ahh, that's what I suspected you were fishing for... ;)

Just an example. I don't care for Glocks much and don't own any.

[hardluk1]

I don't carry my handguns with extended mags in them BUT when they are proven reliable I sure as heck will carry it as a back up mag . The longer mag aids in reloading and with extra cartridges whats not to like . I have run enough rounds thru my 8 round 1911 mags in my ct45 that's there my primary carry mags as OAL is the same and so far the new 10 rounder extended is at 100 rounds thru it reliably and will work as a backup carry mag . I also use full size mags in my sig compact and my wife carrys full size mags for her m&p9c as backup carry mags .

Do as you wish after proven all mags reliable but don't think extended mags can't run well .

[SlowBurn]

I don't carry my handguns with extended mags in them BUT when they are proven reliable I sure as heck will carry it as a back up mag . The longer mag aids in reloading and with extra cartridges whats not to like.

Exactly. I can only speak to 7 round extended mags for P380 and CW380. I have two. To me its obvious they're designed as backup mags, and the extension is not meant as a grip extender. Carrying a CW380 or P380 with the extended mag would defeat the size advantage over a CT380, imo and make no sense. But they're great backup mags. Easy to insert. The extension stays out of the way so the grip doesn't change plus you get the extra round. And they work very reliably.

Normally, when reloading with a backup mag, the chamber would be locked open and empty, and that's how I use them at the range. However a past thread suggested there might be a problem with the extended mags when fully loaded with one in the chamber. I tried that with mine and the older of the two malfunctioned. It may have been just a worn spring, but I emailed Kahr, they swapped for a new mag gratis, and no problems since. Now I test one or the other that way at least once every range trip.

[kahrinca]

Every time I've shot the extended 7-rd magazine I've had one in the chamber for a total of 8. Very early in the break-in I had 1 failure to feed that was easily remedied.

I do think the magazine test contained under 'MAGAZINE FIX' in 'Proper Prep of a new Kahr' is helpful in minimizing problems with the extended mags. All three of the magazines that came with my PM9 initially failed the magazine test so I went to sanding the followers so they'd pass.

[Pointblank]

The point is moot as far as I am concerned. Why buy such a small, compact pistol only to put an extended magazine on it? Just buy a bigger gun if that is your goal.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ agreed. But as hardluk1 says, the ext mags are good for backups. Might as well carry as much ammo as possible.

[jpshaw]

A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.

That is true. However, I have been told and have experienced that the Glock 27 can and will cause problems with the G22 and G23 mags so, yes using extended mags can be a problem. I have no problem with 7 round mags in my Kahr but that's because it's a P9.

[hardluk1]

Any mag has to be proven reliable . Buy a1911 and you will learn to tune mags .

[muggsy]

Assuming that your theory is a correct one, it's totally unacceptable. A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.

A Kahr pistol isn't a Glock 26. You're comparing apples to oranges.

[muggsy]

I seem to remember that some have had issues with extended mags ever since I bought my first Kahr about 12 years ago. Consequently, I have never used one. My PM9 was ordered with 2 six rounders but also came with a seven so I gave it away. To me any extended mag hinders conceallability so I never use one in any pistol. Even my FS 1911 has 7 round mags because that's the way JMB designed it.

O'dell there are many aftermarket 8 round mags for 1911s that don't extend beyond the grip. Shooting Star is one of my favorites.

[kahrinca]

The point is moot as far as I am concerned. Why buy such a small, compact pistol only to put an extended magazine on it? Just buy a bigger gun if that is your goal.

My new PM9 to my surprise came with three magazines- two 6-rd (yes!) and one 7-rd extended. It's not like one has a choice.

One might speculate that Kahr purposely provides two 6-rd mags due to complaints and problems with the 7-rd ones, which, if true, was a smart move on their part.

Might as well enjoy the 7-rd, not only for the range, but consider as a second backup for carry, with the other 6-rd as first for tactical reload.
Some may choose to do the foregoing.

In any event, I want everything to work, and if it doesn't I try to fix it because I have a need to feel confident in a carry weapon.

[kahrinca]

A Kahr pistol isn't a Glock 26. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I am not willing to accept and dismiss a probable defect in the Kahr extended magazines just because the platform's not a Glock.

Rather than buy the ugly Block, I'd rather see Kahr extended magazines work more reliably and as an extended magazine should function.

If it is solely related to 'break-in', that would be fine and reassuring. If not....

BTW, the only malfunction that I've personally had with the 7-rd thus far was round #51 out of 257. It was a failure to feed during break-in, with all rounds about
evenly divided between the two 6-rd and one 7-rd magazines.

I am grateful to the Magazine Fix in 'Proper Prep of a new Kahr', along with other suggestions in that Sticky. Without doing it, I'd guess the two range sessions might not have gone as well.

As to my extended 'tweaked' magazine, so far, so good! Others' mileage may indeed vary.

[Bawanna]

It would seem based on your range experience that we're addressing an issue that may or may not even exist with the extended magazine. Perhaps Kahr as already performed a cure we are unaware of?

The gun coming with 3 mags is a real bonus, 2 is the norm and only 1 with CM's and CW's.

[kahrinca]

It would seem based on your range experience that we're addressing an issue that may or may not even exist with the extended magazine. Perhaps Kahr as already performed a cure we are unaware of?

The gun coming with 3 mags is a real bonus, 2 is the norm and only 1 with CM's and CW's.

Check out 7:22 to the end, doesn't fare well with the extended mag:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCZu2LXTqbQ

On another point- purchased a CW9 seven or eight years ago. You are correct- came with only one mag- flush 7-rd. I wanted another mag, because one is never enough! So, I thought, I'll get the 8-rd extended one for it as price was about the same! Later, I had regret and would've ordered another flush one. Live and learn..

But I presently do not feel that way about my current extended 7-rd mag for the PM9. Maybe Kahr made improvements to the follower or other, or maybe the MAGAZINE FIX helped it along for me this time (not performed on the CW9 mags), or cycling the slide, storing it overnight with slide locked back, maybe one or all helped. Don't really know but there seem to be enough complainers here and on the net about them.

[O'Dell]

O'dell there are many aftermarket 8 round mags for 1911s that don't extend beyond the grip. Shooting Star is one of my favorites.

Yeah, I know - my FS lightweight Loaded Springfield came with two of them. However, I use 7 rounders because that's how John Moses originally designed it. I guess you could say, I'm a traditionalist. As far a concealing one, I practically never carry a 1911 because they're too expensive to lose.

Regarding the OP, he has done nothing but criticize Kahrs since he arrived. It's a good thing we're such nice guys - he would have been banned from most brand-specific sites long ago.

[kahrinca]

I seem to remember that some have had issues with extended mags ever since I bought my first Kahr about 12 years ago. Consequently, I have never used one. My PM9 was ordered with 2 six rounders but also came with a seven so I gave it away. To me any extended mag hinders conceallability so I never use one in any pistol. Even my FS 1911 has 7 round mags because that's the way JMB designed it.


Yeah, I know - my FS lightweight Loaded Springfield came with two of them. However, I use 7 rounders because that's how John Moses originally designed it. I guess you could say, I'm a traditionalist. As far a concealing one, I practically never carry a 1911 because they're too expensive to lose.

Regarding the OP, he has done nothing but criticize Kahrs since he arrived. It's a good thing we're such nice guys - he would have been banned from most brand-specific sites long ago.

O'Dell-

Look who's calling the kettle black.

Not only do you mischaracterize my posts in this thread, you personally attack me in violation of numerous forum rules. Smear.

I am quite happy with my Kahr, contrary to what you may perceive, and I believe my concerns and observations are worthy of consideration.

[Barth]

Extended mags with my MK40 Elite have been flawless.
I shoot as much with standard as extended and have never had a problem.

Barth:cool:

[kahrinca]

Good to hear, Barth!

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[Nytcrawler93]

My PM9 has a stock 6 rounder, a Pearce grip modded one, and the factory extended mag and none cause an issue. To the comment about 1911s and having to tune a mag, I say maybe, maybe not. My Colt Rail Gun 1911 has run fine on everything from stock colt mags to Wilson combat ETM to WW2 era mags out of a Sistema. I don't buy into mag tuning.


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[jocko]

The point is moot as far as I am concerned. Why buy such a small, compact pistol only to put an extended magazine on it? Just buy a bigger gun if that is your goal.

now there is a post that to me makes sense. For me that totally butt ugly extended magazine for the kahrs suck. Why would I want to have a ultra lite, ultra compact semi and then stick a longer magazine in it, for what??? One fokking extra round. If u can't do it in 7 with a PM kahr, then buy a cw and do it in 8. I never practice with my extended round magazine, for it definitely gives you a different hold than the flush fit magsill gladly trademy extended round mag to anyone with a 6 round kahr mag. Just sayin

[jocko]

Assuming that your theory is a correct one, it's totally unacceptable. A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.

gottsa remember GLOCKS never fail, they are perfect. I have always felt a double stack mag has a distinct advantage ov er a single stack . Bulk makes perfect in double stack vs single stack. Topday kahrs 7 round extended mags, seem to be perfect. Just sayin...I will report that last week I was shooting my G43 at the range and every TUL brand round would not go boom. every utter brand that I had went boom, two TUl roundws would not even feed.... I should have known better when i bought a few boxes of that ammo, buty it was cheap at the time, sure give me some TAP,RACK DRILLS though. Ju7st sayin

[hardluk1]

Jacko For some of us fingers with dexterity issues find extended mags give us something to hang on to for mag changes with these tiny arsed mags . I don't think any one would carry a small kahr single stack with a 7 or 8 round mag sticking out while carry'n . I found out even a no extra round extension on certain single stack full size mag worked well in matchs 25 years ago so why not take advantage of a couple extra rounds IF ever needed in a single stack . Good that we all have choices !!

[jocko]

Jacko For some of us fingers with dexterity issues find extended mags give us something to hang on to for mag changes with these tiny arsed mags . I don't think any one would carry a small kahr single stack with a 7 or 8 round mag sticking out while carry'n . I found out even a no extra round extension on certain single stack full size mag worked well in matchs 25 years ago so why not take advantage of a couple extra rounds IF ever needed in a single stack . Good that we all have choices !!

no argument from me, extendfed mags do what they are designed for....

[b4uqzme]

Why? Because, assuming they have tested reliable for you, they make great back-ups. Flat, easy to conceal and maximum capacity. I too prefer the standard magazines for primary where the extra grip length would be a detriment.

[hardluk1]

I never assume any mags going to work well till it proves to be dependable just like the handgun. Owning some old 1911 will teach you that and teach how to tune them !! I number my mags and proof each one along with the handgun .