New 380 - same issues.

[LouB]

New p380 as of last week. Had such a good experience w/my PM9, ran out & bought the P380 IN SPITE of what I was reading here on issues

1st 8 mags ful had one failure to fully return to battery. A little push, all fixed (the 1st magazine), then ZERO probs for the next 5 mags full, with multiple brands of ammo. I thought I was over the hump. Went home cleaned the gun weel for next range visit

Second session this a.m. was a TOTALLY different experience. All three mags (another 8 full) had action lock open on the second round and the third, and then sometimes 4th and/or 5th. Before y'all ask, I was VERY conscious of where my thumbs were, and was no where near riding the slide release lever while firing. Read enough about that to be forewarned.

now I've been shooting handguns since the sixties, and I fully understand (though don't fully agree with) "break-in" (a gun settling in after a few hundred rounds). Esp one built as tightly as these guns. I just don't see sending another 100 rnds wasted firing basically a single shot pistol.

Since my ONLY problem was the slide locking back with rounds still in the mags (no FTF, stovepipes, FTE, etc.) ----- What's the crew's opinion on cutting the break-in short (we all know .380 isn't cheap), and immediately seeking repair from Kahr for this problem of the slide locking back for multiple rounds per magazine??

From treading the boards. It doesn't seem to be a "mating "problem that will wear in with time and more rounds. Am I incorrect?? Like to hear opinions.

THX
LouB

[hobbydad]

My first thought would be that the slide release spring is not in the proper position after reassembly. I have read here that its sometimes more difficult to place it properly on the P380's.

[jocko]

since it happened after you cleaned the gun, check that little spring on the left side by the slide lock lever to see if possably it is bent and causing pre mature slide lockingopen. take the slide off, reinsert the slide stop lever and insert a loaded magazine and check to see if #1, the lever moves up by itself. IT SHOULD NOT MOVE. #2 if possable some of the rounds in the magazine are hitting on the inside of the slide stop lever THEY SHOULD NOT. eliminate the possables, being your nothitting the slide stop lever. If the little spring is bent upward to much, then it will not keep the slide stop lever pulling downward and it will premature lock itself open. My thoughts are that being it didn't do that at first that possably that little spring thing got bent upward to much there for causing a loos playing slide stop lever. That little spring is designed to pullthe lever downward always and only the pressure of the follower on the last round should move that lever upward. nothing else moves that lever upward except that follower.

If you feel it could be alittle bent, jsut take a pair of needle nose pliers and tweek that spring tip downward. U can't harm anything by doing this and probably will sovle the issue. rthe failure to return to battery willshoot itself out in a few hundred rounds. check tos ee if the feed ramp looks polished enough to pleasse you, if not polish it with a dremel or some 600+ grip auto paper. you certainly won't harm it either. The little P380 IMO is one tight sob. really though that doeksn't seemt o be an issue either. use the slide lock release lever to oad the first round until you can hand rack with ease. It took me quite awhile to master hand racking my P380 but now with rounds down range etc it is smoothe dout alot and I can hand rack with ease.

don't panic yet u seem to know what the heh is going on with guns, u will get it right and if not then it is up to kahr on their dime to make it right. I don't consider shooting a couple hundred rounds wasting time and ammo. for sure I would not trust any gun out of the box to be reliable. I buy um, I shoot um test with good defense ammo for reliablity. One should do that with any gun he buys. Kahrs are not known to be ammo sensitive butmy P380 just had a hard time with 102 golden sabres, so I just moved on to other good defense brands..

[LouB]

Jocko,
Thanks for the quick reply.
I took a look inside the 380, wasn't sure what I was supposed to be seeing, but the spring has no tension on it and will wiggle around when touched with a needle nose. In addition the spring screw washer is just floating on the shaft, will wiggle and rotate around the screw shaft

I opened my pm9 to look there and the washer is tight and the spring has no play.

I tried to see what holds the spring in place,( slide stop spring screw & washer , it looks like in the diagram ). But again differences. I can clearly see the PM9 has a 6 point star head, but the "screw" in the 380 just seems to have a non descript hole or dimple. I don't see a clear head type like in my pm9. I couldn't see a way to tighten it down, as it appears to not be bearing down on the spring to hold it in place.

well, open to suggestions.

THX
LouB

[wyntrout]

Note/update: The screw is not a regular T-5, but Torx-IP5, an Improved Torx. The T-5 bit worked for me though, and I wasn't putting any "torque" on the little screw into plastic.

LouB, that spring shouldn't move. The screw is a T-5 Torx and needs tightening. Use the correct screwdriver and tighten the screw just until you feel resistance. Remember the screw is metal and the frame you're screwing it into is polymer... PLASTIC. Don't overtighten... you'll strip the screw and then you need a NEW FRAME.

Look at the following picture carefully and compare your screw, washer, and spring to it. I just replaced all of those in my PM45 because my slide lock was backing out when firing the gun. The PM45 screw is a T-6 Torx. A set of these will come in handy if you don't over tighten these screws into the plastic.

I'll show my pictures of the PM45 parts where my old one is warped.

Picture one is the P380 with a tight screw,washer, and spring.
#2 the bad or worn and warped spring and the new one
#3 the old screw and washer next to the new ones.
#4 is a slide lock
#5 shows the free end of the spring pressing down on the little ledge of the slide lock as it's being inserted. This is my OLD warped spring, but it shows how the free end should be on the ledge of the slide lock.

Note the spring on the right lays flat with only the part that inserts into the hole in the frame sticks up. The old one is worn and warped or bent in several areas. It wasn't doing its job and the slide lock would back out while firing the gun.

When you insert the slide lock, have the release lever at about 4 o'clock and tilted to the right so that you get the pin just to the left of the spring and push it ASIDE, not bend it inward, as you insert the pin. When it's about halfway in (and going into the peanut-shaped hole on the barrel lug) orient the lever up to go through the cutout in the slide. The slide lock should click into place and the lever should rebound back up when you depress it. If the spring is secure, there should be downward pressure by the free end of the spring on the little shelf for it on the inside of the slide lock lever. This should stop all of your random early slide locks.

I hope this will get your P380 back into action and stop those early slide locks.

Wynn:D

[LouB]

Wynn,

Right on the money. I can't even see the head shape on the 380, looks like a small round divit, not like the easily seen torx shape on my PM9.

Gonna have to invest in some SMALL torx drivers. All I have are larger. The 380 seems to be a size smaller than my PM9 and my smallest torx is one size larger than that.

Being adventurous, I took my micro flat screwdriver set out, found a flat blade that wedged in to the star and carefully first loosened and then tightened. I wasn't sure I'd even turned the screw 1/64th but low and behold when I touched the washer and the spring, they were snugged down.

I'll get back to the range tomarrow and see if it's a fix, and if it stays. I'll also stop at an auto supply and see what I can find to purchase the correct Torx size. I'm gonna email kahr anyway to get a replacement screw and spring.

Thanks for the assistance. From all of you. Hope this will fix the issue.

LouB

[jocko]

super photos. whn, excellent explanation on this subject matter also. Lou, definitely get a
35 torx, u can go to sears and buy one separately, and everything wyn statd should be your guide. I doubt if you need a new sprnghy either. I never mess with that area as a screw into polymer to me just spells troulbe if one messes with it alot. I have close to 30,000 rounds out of my PM9 and have never touched that screw. I would think once it is snugged in place it will stay there. good luck and keep us informed.

again WYN. nice job, IMO photos go a long way towards explaning..

[jlottmc]

While you're at the parts store, a tube of Loc-Tite might also be a good investment. I would get the blue tube.

[wyntrout]

I got my Torx screwdriver and bit set at Harbor Freight Tools. They have many sets to suit all tastes and they are CHEEP... all under $10, some well under. :) You need at least a T-5 and above. The P380 has 2 T-5 screws(side plate, too), and the PM45 needs a T-6. I'm not sure of any others, but I've only needed the two sizes, so far. Sears/Craftsman are just too expensive for my taste on some things. With the bits you can just use the bit and not exert too much pressure.
Wynn:D

[jlottmc]

I thought I was the only one who did that Wynn. Now who's the masochist? That practice makes for a very existential time. (Pain exists to let me know I'm alive.) Good advice at any rate.

[copterdrvr]

Does anyone have any negative thoughts about using blue loctite in a polymer frame? As important as that little spring is, I'd feel alot more comfortable about putting some Loctite on the screw.

[jocko]

Does anyone have any negative thoughts about using blue loctite in a polymer frame? As important as that little spring is, I'd feel alot more comfortable about putting some Loctite on the screw.

won't cure in that polymer frame. If the screw is on right and just snugged, it will not move. The threads on that screw are fine fine and going into polymer IMO doesn't seem good but kahr has been doing this for years on the cw and PM series and basically no issues have arose, so it must be OK. Just not an area where one shold be messing with either...

If I was even thinking about what your suggesting, I think I would buy the PRUPLE locktite that msot gun stores sell, as it is weaker than the blue locktite even and will if needed be easier to remove. I personaly would not do anything..

[wyntrout]

Some of that T Plus 2 "Teflon Enriched" thread sealant paste used for anti-seizure in plumbing might help, but the amount you could use would be pretty infintesmal. It IS used on PVC threaded fittings as well as metal.
I didn't use it on my pistol, but it should work. I would just twist the screw in it to get as little as possible, and I would want to make sure the polymer and the screw threads were clean and free of lubricant, as possible. We're talking about a TINY hole here! I haven't seen any Q-tips or other cleaning thingies that tiny, for use in cleaning before and/or after using the paste, should you want to clean out the screw hole. (THAT sounds obscene! :eek: )
Pix follow.
Wynn:D

[jlottmc]

Blue loc-tite will take longer to cure, but will cure. As for the application of any thread locker, toothpicks work well on stuff that small. I am one of those that keeps loc-tite in business. I put that stuff of everything. In this case super glue on the threads will work wonderfully as well. I use that from time to time as well (usually on my knife screws (Yes, I have a bunch of them too.)).

[wyntrout]

You sure wouldn't want to break off the tip of a toothpick in that little hole! :eek: Is there a jeweler screwdriver small enough to engage something like that and be used to "unscrew" the tip?? My smallest screwdriver is 1.4mm and it looks like it might clear the threads on the T-6 screw for the PM45, but I'm not sure about the T-5 on the P380. You would probably have to sharpen the tip to bite into the piece of wood, and be vewy, vewy careful!
Hey... just thinking out loud. I'm sure someone will be posting a request for info on how to remove a piece of toothpick from the hole.
Wynn:D

[jlottmc]

A dental pick should work well for that. Remember that you are just dabbing the inside of the hole with NO pressure on the toothpick, just putting the thread locker there for the threads to pick up. That's how I change the color of the dots on my sights as well. It works. There are some REALLY fine jeweler's screwdrivers that will work, but the little kit that you get at Wally-World may not have them.

[wyntrout]

I guess that I was thinking along the line of screwing the toothpick in a bit to clean the threads.
Wynn:D

[jlottmc]

That could be done, but I wouldn't. If it weren't such a critical area, then sure why not, but not there. You never did answer my question Wynn...

[jocko]

If it ain't broke, don't fx it, If one must for some reason take that little screw out of its home, then what these guys are saying about some type of thread locker might make sense but IMO do not take that screw out JUST to insert some thread locker. It was not meant to have it in that area and 99.995% of kahrs have zero issues in that area. My bet is that this one P380 left the factory with a very loose screw not properly tightened.

[copterdrvr]

Thanks for the info. I guess I should have identified myself, but I just bought a brand new CW9 at the local gunshow on Sunday and I'm just starting to learn as much as I can about these beautiful little pistols.
Heck, I haven't even fired it yet!

I had already done my usual "semi-auto" fluff and buff and while doing some searching on the net about the pistol, I found this site and was happy to see that I'd already done the stuff recommended in the "new gun" post!

[jocko]

Thanks for the info. I guess I should have identified myself, but I just bought a brand new CW9 at the local gunshow on Sunday and I'm just starting to learn as much as I can about these beautiful little pistols.
Heck, I haven't even fired it yet!

I had already done my usual "semi-auto" fluff and buff and while doing some searching on the net about the pistol, I found this site and was happy to see that I'd already done the stuff recommended in the "new gun" post!

hard to just ONE ONE KAHR. ask most posters here:target:

[LouB]

Well, I'm back from the range, and HAPPY to report my infinitesmal tightening of the T5 with a tiny eyeglass flat tip screwdriver seems to have done the trick. Only had tme to run 4 mag-fuls thru, but not 1 early slide lock back.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

Hopefully it'll stay put.

LouB

[wyntrout]

That could be done, but I wouldn't. If it weren't such a critical area, then sure why not, but not there. You never did answer my question Wynn...

Was this the question?? "Now who's the masochist?":confused:

The good thing about pain, is that when you stop doing what's causing it, you feel better... well, at least I do... generally.:D

I was just tinkering with an external hard drive enclosure, thinking of using it for a way to hook up drives to one of my DVRs. I had it plugged in off and on and was trying to figure if the output was going on and off, because the fan was. My VOM showed that, so I removed the power supply and was moving it around the metallicised plastic housing when CRACK... bright flash. :eek: It knocked that circuit out and I had to go to the switch box to recycle it... another test of my UPSs. All of my smaller ones have new batteries now.
I've been zapped a few times... and I have even wired in my generator without disconnecting the main... 240 volts. My panel was so neat that I figured I could stay away from hot stuff.
I don't usually go looking for pain, though.
Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

Very good, Lou. I'm glad that helped you. I just had to replace the spring in my PM45, so it was very fresh in my mind and I had the pix to show the detail. A good picture CAN be worth a thousand words sometimes.
I WOULD get a cheap set of those little Torx screwdrivers, though. It's hard to beat Harbor Freight if there's one near you. I found the set I got there to be very handy... I needed the metric hex socket drivers for some screws in my shotgun. All of the screws are allen-drive socket types, but metric... at least the H2.5 driver fit, though I saw no screws like I want with the H2.5. Those were H2.0. I spent a lot of time looking for a screw like my lost one... all the usual gun parts places and a lot more. Most places sell a box of 100 for less than $10 and the gun places wanted $4 to $6 for ONE(?) and not much info or pictures. I'll buy a hundred before I'll pay the gun parts prices for a couple!

I did find a good place for screws... discussion and link here:

http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/2845-need-hard-find-screw-your-gun.html

Wynn:D