CW45 doesn't chamber properly

[jrz_dad]

Hi guys - need some input...own a CW45 (only owner). Basic problem is the pistol will fire the first round, and then after that - its a crap shoot as to firing...the following round "sometimes' will not chamber properly (the slide is setback slightly - its noticeable) - and then other times it will fire a few rounds then suddently not chamber. I have noticed that "when" it chambers, it works perfectly... I have managed to fire about 500 rounds thru the pistol (and thats been a time consuming chore!!) - i've left the slide locked open for a few days to work the spring as well. Even sat in the chair and worked the slide a few hundred times while watching the TV - this thing is driving me nuts!...I reload so I thought it was the reloads...rechecked them again and they are factory specs...thought maybe the charge was too low and not cycling the slide properly...made up a new batch that was close to max charge...same issue...I bought factory stuff (cheapo...midrange...expensive) - this thing does this will ALL ammo so its not picky there. Thought maybe I was 'limpwristing" it...NOPE, even with making sure i gripped properly, it STILL will have that chambering issue..

SO, what have I missed guys? I'm at a loss here...its a nice weapon but right now, its a paperweight -OR- if I have to defend myself with this, I hope I can hit the attacker in the head or poke out an eye when I THROW it at him...cuz it damn sure wont hurt him any other way...

Help me Obi-Wan...ya'lls my only hope :)

James
Lawton, OK

[yqtszhj]

If you've fired 500 rounds through it and you're still having a problem and you bought it new I'd call kahr. It should have smoothed out by now. Don't mention your reloads just tell them it does it with factory ammo.

I'll look for the cw45 link started by greg and you can ckeck for domething obvious but a feed trouble after that many rounds therd may be an issue.

[yqtszhj]

Here is the cw45 thread.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-45)-issues-and-fixes

[jrz_dad]

Thanks yqtszhj...I'll check it out...understood bout the reload part...most companies dont like folks shooting reloads but figured it was ok to mention here as i wanted to give as much info as i could so ya'll can diagnose this from afar...'preciate the info!!...J

[CJB]

What ammo

[Iggy]

First time out with my wife's Cw45, we found my reloads wouldn't work, nor would Military Ball ammo. Bought some factory stuff and it when through it like poop through a goose.

A little checking and experimenting and I found my reloads would work if I shortened the OAL by a freckle and they work fine too.

Haven't tried anymore military.

[jrz_dad]

using all ball ammo - even the reloads... i've tried increasing the powder and shortening the OAL in my reloads - no discernable effect...

here is a list of the ammo i've tried...

Monarch 45 acp 230gn
UMC 45acp, 230gn,
Winchester USA 45acp. 230gn
Federal UMC, 45acp, 230gn
Federal Champion 45acp, 230gn

None of this works in this pistol...i have the same issue regardless of the ammo i've tried so far...

[CJB]

Basic problem is ....following round "sometimes' will not chamber.


I suspect ammo.

When the ammo goes into the chamber,but the side fails to fully go forward, its usually a) a tight chamber/oversize ammo or b) an extractor issue.

I'm thinking not an extractor issue (yet), but maybe an ammo related issue.

Try some of the hottest stuff you can find, for break-in.

Its not limp wristing.

CLEAN the chamber well.

With the barrel removed, gauge each round by dropping it into the chamber while checking to make sure it falls all the way in, flush with the barrel hood. Use no finger pressure, only gravity... see how the ammo fits!

Report back!

[jrz_dad]

Thanks CJB - i will give that a try...any 'recommendations' on HOT ammo?...anyone? Thanks guys!! :)

[Longitude Zero]

Give Kahr a chance to give it a look see/work over. If after that it still does it then find ammo it does shoot and avoid what is does not. Kinda like look where you want the vehicle to go and not at the obstacle you are trying to avoid hitting.

[Bawanna]

With the barrel removed, gauge each round by dropping it into the chamber while checking to make sure it falls all the way in, flush with the barrel hood. Use no finger pressure, only gravity... see how the ammo fits!

I do this but I push the round into the chamber as hard as I can with my thumb or finger. Then tip the barrel up and see if the round falls out easy like.
If it don't you got the things CJB mentioned. A long OAL, or a tight chamber or combination of both or either.

My reloads were a smidge long for my PM45 as well. Shortened them up just a smidge and they work well.

[gb6491]

Please allow me to add my http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/twocents.gif to what CJB and Bawanna have posted:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-%28and-other-poly-45%29-issues-and-fixes&p=354743#post354743

[jrz_dad]

Thanks everyone...i've decided to send it into Kahr for their evaluation...will let you know what they found out...I appreciate all the input!! you've been VERY helpful...James

[jrz_dad]

Ya know GB6491....I think after reading your 2 cents, it may be that freebore issue you discuss...i have had that happen a bit during the break in period...BUT, Kahr has it now...lets see what they recommend...if they cant fix it...I bet your solution would!!...Thanks again!!...J

[jrz_dad]

OK, just a quick update...Kahr folks got back with me on this issue...seems their gunsmith has determined the FRAME is the culprit ...they are replacing it and sending the gun back to my FFL guy (new serial number and all that stuff)...as of now, no charges to me for this...well, other than the FFL fee ...but that's a small price to pay to have this 'fixed"...Thanks for all the input guys!! its appreciated!!

[gb6491]

Thanks for the update!

[jrz_dad]

Ok, last update on this post - test fired the gun..it works great with FACTORY ammo...doesn't like my reloads thou...lol. guess its time to take apart the ammo it DOES like and make some comparisons...it kills me to think I cant shoot my reloads in this one...its the ONLY 45acp piece I have that doesn't like my own loads...but at least I can now use the gun for its intended purpose...Thanks again to ALL who posted up to help me...your input has been awesome!!...JV

[gb6491]

Ok, last update on this post - test fired the gun..it works great with FACTORY ammo...doesn't like my reloads thou...lol. guess its time to take apart the ammo it DOES like and make some comparisons...it kills me to think I cant shoot my reloads in this one...its the ONLY 45acp piece I have that doesn't like my own loads...but at least I can now use the gun for its intended purpose...Thanks again to ALL who posted up to help me...your input has been awesome!!...JV
Thanks for the update!
Are you using a "factory crimp" die for your reloads? If so (the factory crimp should eliminate any diameter issues) then you might want to check overall length.

I'm still of the opinion, that free bore/leade is the culprit with XTP style bullets (maybe others) and longer length reloads.
I just cut more free bore in another CW45 barrel the other day because 230gr. Hornady Critical Defense XTP was sticking in the barrel causing failures to return to battery and making it difficult to eject live rounds.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2ns9eer.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/2ug2fbo.jpg

Regards,
Greg

[jrz_dad]

Thanks for the update!
Are you using a "factory crimp" die for your reloads? If so (the factory crimp should eliminate any diameter issues) then you might want to check overall length.

I'm still of the opinion, that free bore/leade is the culprit with XTP style bullets (maybe others) and longer length reloads.
I just cut more free bore in another CW45 barrel the other day because 230gr. Hornady Critical Defense XTP was sticking in the barrel causing failures to return to battery and making it difficult to eject live rounds.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2ns9eer.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/2ug2fbo.jpg

Regards,
Greg

Thanks Greg...first, no - not using the crimp die on the reloads...but I plan on starting...I've NOT forgotten the info you provided as well!!..Its my next step to recheck the reloads to ensure they MATCH exactly the factory specs - I am still mulling the idea around on the rechamber issue too...your words are not falling on deaf ears friend! :)

[DougGuy]

Kahr has a tight chamber and throat. Their barrels are made by Lothar Walther, and the ARE on the slim side of dimensions. They will NOT chamber a round with a .452" bullet without the barrel being throated. They will NOT chamber any reloads with much runout. You have to have pretty good consistency at your press to shoot cast bullets in the Kahr barrel. I got plated 230gr HP from IQ Metals sized .451" and ran through hundreds of reloads using these bullets without one single FTF.

On a good note, this throat problem is an easy and inexpensive fix! I offer cylinder throating, barrel throating, polishing and crowning and have a LOT of very happy customers, I can be found here, on the castboolits forum, for photos of professional quality work look to my facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cylinderhonenet/756429174391912
(https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cylinderhonenet/756429174391912)
Here is a Springfleld barrel before and after throating. On the left, factory stock barrel with NO freebore to speak of. On the right, the same barrel after throating. It will now cycle with any .452" load that will run through the magazine.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/Both1_zps194dd462.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/Both1_zps194dd462.jpg.html)

[jrz_dad]

dougguy - what would be the cost for this service? i'm interested in getting this issue fixed for sure - i tend to favor the .452 size bullets in my reloads...thanks

[jrz_dad]

ok, one more update on this - (History) I got the pistol back from Kahr - they replaced the frame (apparently their tests showed it was the problem) - loaded up some factory ammo (steel case stuff) and it shoots flawlessly - I then tested my reloads in different batches - in groups of 5, i ranged from no crimp to heavy crimp using plated/jacketed bullets...as expected, the no crimp would not cycle...all the crimped stuff shot perfectly...I then tested using only my lead reloads...regardless of crimp, they did not cycle. So, i think the jacketed stuff will function fine and the lead bullets is like i was told by most of you - they are a bit oversized for this gun....i'm debating on having the barrel throated...dougguy and i have been talking and he can do this rather inexpensively with minimal down time...anyway - thank you all AGAIN for the valuable input and help...i'm hoping this issue has been resolved regardless of what path I choose to go... :)

[Iggy]

Look into a factory crimp die. It solved my reload problem.

[jrz_dad]

Iggy - i did that as noted above & per your previous recommendation...it works great with the exception of the hard cast bullets (.452)....i think getting the barrel throated per dougguy will take care of the last problem and let this thing shoot any ammo!!...my post above was to bring all who helped me up to speed on what has transpired...ya'll are awesome!! :)

[jrz_dad]

ok, last update on this one - problem resolved for good. I decided to have the barrel worked over like dougguy (cylinderhone.net) recommended...got the barrel back today...looks awesome!! ALL my ammo just drops into the barrel chamber freely and falls out on its own when inverting the barrel...no issues with feeding/firing/extracting/ejecting now...Thanks Doug!! ya did an awesome job!!...I'd highly recommend his service if anyone out there is considering this for their Kahr. Reasonable price too...about a week turnaround time...NICE!! :D

[DougGuy]

jrz_dad sent his CW45 barrel for the Throat, Crown & Polish package I offer. This consists of throating the barrel with .150" to .200" worth of .4525" freebore that leads smoothly into the rifling on a 2° angle, a precision cut 20° crown, and any polishing, radiusing, or blending that might be needed at the feed ramp.

20° crown:
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/DSC04794%20Custom_zpsmvxyd7re.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/DSC04794%20Custom_zpsmvxyd7re.jpg.html)

.4525" throat:
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/DSC04803%20Custom_zpsfc8bcu5r.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/DSC04803%20Custom_zpsfc8bcu5r.jpg.html)

[Garpo]

Does anybody know if DougGuy is still providing this ^^^service? Sent him a PM but have not heard back from him.

[gb6491]

Does anybody know if DougGuy is still providing this ^^^service? Sent him a PM but have not heard back from him.
I imagine you'll get a reply from him in good order, but you can also try contacting him via Face Book: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhonenet-756429174391912/
Regards,
Greg

[Garpo]

I imagine you'll get a reply from him in good order, but you can also try contacting him via Face Book: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhonenet-756429174391912/
Regards,
Greg

Thanks for the link.

[Garpo]

I just sent my CW45 barrel off to DougGuy to have the throat, crown and polish package performed. Had my new CW45 out to the range the other day and although very pleased with the feel and accuracy of this pistol, it had several failures to fully seat the cartridges, thus causing the slide not go into full battery. This was primarily using my 230, 200 LRN & 185 SWC reloads. However, I even experienced a couple of failures with factory FMJ ammo.

I'm looking forward to getting the barrel back to enjoy my CW45 to it's full potential.

[se3388]

My CW 45 shoots factory ammo like the proverbial grease through a Goose, but my reloads which function great through all eight of my other 45's will not chamber all the way. A chamber cast showed it to have a tight chamber.

Steve.........

[Garpo]

My CW 45 shoots factory ammo like the proverbial grease through a Goose, but my reloads which function great through all eight of my other 45's will not chamber all the way. A chamber cast showed it to have a tight chamber.

Steve.........

Send it to DougGuy. I had the same problem but after Doug did his magic she eats both factory and reloads equally, without any issues.