CW45 going in for service (no trigger)

[Automatic]

This will be the first time I've EVER had to send a firearm in for service. I hope that it'll be a decent experience.

During a class yesterday my CW45 stopped working after approx 100rds.

Chambered a round, pulled the trigger, & nothing. No tension on the trigger, no click. Malfunction drill, eject live round, pull trigger..nothing. Trigger moves back with no resistance. Class over for me.

Got it home..had to remove back plate & springs in order to get slide off.
When trigger is pulled I can see the trigger bar moving in the mag well BUT the cocking cam doesn't move at all! There is spring tension on the cam. I can move it by hand and it returns to the forward position. Wondering if the trigger bar broke where there's engagement of the cam.

Spoke to Kahr service today. Told me to have my dealer send it in. If all goes well expect about 3 week turnaround.

This is my primary carry gun. I'm sure it'll get fixed..Just wondering if I can trust it anymore.
I was willing to overlook it not feeding all ammo types & the slide releasing on it's own when positively inserting a fresh magazine (happens about 30% of time) but, having a gun go completely inoperable is something I've NEVER had happen in 30 yrs. I've got firearms with several thousand more rounds through then than this one.

I love the economics & the trigger on the Kahr. Much more than my G19. I can shoot it as well as my 1911 Springer that I've owned for over 25 yrs...but, trust is a HUGE thing, especial on my EDC. Here's hoping they can restore it.
Respectfully,


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[CJB]

Trigger spring not lifting the bar

[b4uqzme]

...This is my primary carry gun. I'm sure it'll get fixed..Just wondering if I can trust it anymore.

Of course you can.

P.S. CJB's probably right based on your description.

[CJB]

Back at a real keyboard....

You might want to lift the sideplate and see what's going on there.

The trigger spring will give return to the trigger, the trigger BAR spring give lift to the trigger bar.

If the trigger bar spring is dislodged, then... no lift. Its like the trigger is "disconnected" all the time. That is, it feels like it would if the slide were out of battery.

You might want to take a look. There also exists a possibility that some crud, a hanging chad of poly... is preventing the trigger bar movement back upward. And, check the slide disconnection cutout (the circular cut) for a burr that might be causing an issue.

Those are things easily remedied by someone with not too much technical skill, but.....

Kahr will correct the situation too.

[Automatic]

Thx for the replies.

Seems I can't login via the website..so I'll do my best on phone.

I did pull the side plate off.

Trigger bar spring was holding it in place. I even tried seeing if I could engage cocking cam by manually moving the trigger bar up or in more..No go.

I didn't pull the trigger bar out but, it looked to me as though the trigger bar may have broken just beyond where it goes back through the frame.

The 90° bend at the end where it engaged the cocking cam...looks like it may have broke just past the 90.

Took it to dealer this evening. Packaged up and will leave for Kahr in the A.M.

I bought it new 3 yrs (+4 days) ago. I appreciate all the words of support.
Respectfully,

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[yqtszhj]

Trigger spring not lifting the bar

What he said....

[b4uqzme]

They'll fix you up.

[CJB]

Yikes... if the piece broke off the trigger bar, that's a REALLY REALLY RARE occurrence.

Auto ol' man, you might be the first with that problem, or the first in recent memory.

Kahr will fix. Should be no cost.

They might have given you a free pass on the shipping, as you was within 5 years, but too late for that.

[Automatic]

Thx again.
I'll let you all know, what Kahr says.


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[DJK11]

Broken trigger bar, been there

[CJB]

Wow!

[muggsy]

Double wow! First that I've seen. The trigger bar is a stamped part. I hate stamped parts in guns. Unfortunately most guns have stamped parts these days.

[Automatic]

DJK.... Thx for pic. Yeah guess it is possible to break it.
Hope you're happy with yours now.
Respectfully,

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[DJK11]

It broke at about 7,000 rounds. Gun shop/range owner told me the trigger bars brake on their rental Kahrs.

[Automatic]

Just got a call from my dealer, they spoke to Jay at Kahr service. They won't cover the shipping so I'll have to eat that.

When I spoke to their rep the other day, he kept steering me to go through the dealer for the return, instead of shipping it myself..now I see why.

Don't like to hear that a broken trigger bar is a known issue.
I've got between 1500-2000 rds on this gun. If it can't take that without breaking then it's a range gun & not a self defense gun.

How everyone has a great Thanksgiving.
Respectfully,


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[DJK11]

Auto,

If you purchased the pistol from said dealer, he should cover the return shipping to Kahr or have them send a bar and you or the dealer swap it out. My PM9 with the broken bar is my least favorite of the four Kahrs I own. I like the overall design, but not happy with some of the way Kahr implements them. The trigger bar with toooo many bends, that is the weak point and the hold open lever spring. The spring seems like an after thought.

[muggsy]

In this case I suspect bad steel. I hope the problem doesn't become epidemic. Kahr had better start covering shipping on warranty repairs or improve their QC or they're going to start losing a lot of business. Word of bad mouth advertising travels like wildfire on the internet. And this from Kahr's biggest fan boy.

[Exiledviking]

In this case I suspect bad steel. I hope the problem doesn't become epidemic. Kahr had better start covering shipping on warranty repairs or improve their QC or they're going to start losing a lot of business. Word of bad mouth advertising travels like wildfire on the internet. And this from Kahr's biggest fan boy.
I fully agree with you in regards to covering the shipping. Especially considering that the pistol is only 3 years old with less than 2000 rounds thru it.
I just purchased my 2nd Kahr (K9 Elite - Woohoo!) and I have/had plans to pick up either a PM9 or MK9 in the future.

All the other manufacturers I currently have pistols made by will stand by their products and cover shipping when something breaks. And that's how it should be.

I'll be watching this thread closely to see how it's resolved by Kahr.

[b4uqzme]

Shipping aside. I fully expect Kahr to come thru.

[Automatic]

Thx folks.
I hope this is a rare occurance and you all have better luck.

What is kind of lousy is I was planning on supplementing my carry group with a pm9... When I was in the dealer to drop off my Kahr he showed me the G43 and the P320 subcompact (very impressive trigger).
2 weeks ago the Kahr was a foregone conclusion. Now I've got another decision to make.
Respectfully,

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[Automatic]

Just got off the phone with the folks at Kahr customer service.

I asked if they could tell me the status of my firearm, as I was told when it was shipped to them on 11/25 that "they expect they'd have it back to me within 3 weeks"...and I hadn't heard anything yet.

After a minute the gentleman said "it's in the queue to be looked at".

He said they received it on 12/1.

When asked how much longer I could expect, as it's my primary carry gun.
He told me that he "expects they'd get to it within a week or so".
"They're kinda busy".
I'm guessing with the Christmas/New Year holidays that I won't get it back until AFTER the 1st of the year.

Guess they're busy fixing a lot of other guns that broke!

With that in mind I'll go pick up another carry gun for the interim, as I don't know how long I'll be without it.
One thing for certain...New one WON'T be a Kahr.

I'll keep folks updated..in the mean time, Merry Christmas.



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[muggsy]

What you experience can happen with any gun. I wouldn't get too down on Kahr. The next time you run into a problem with any Kahr product contact your friends at Kahr Talk first. We know most of the ins and outs and we're more than willing to help. That's not something that you are likely to find on any other gun website.

[Automatic]

Hey Muggsy-
I agree that it 'might' happen with ANY firearm..but as I stated earlier, in close to 30 yrs shooting I've NEVER had another brand of gun render itself unusable.
We're talking dozens of guns by a variety of manufactures...Not all high dollar either.

I do understand that things break & as such, the real test is how well they take care of you when things break.
In this regard, they've made me pay to have it shipped to them & then failed to meet the timeframe that THEY specified for repairs.

You are right about the forum folks here. Seem like great people & I appreciate the insight many have provided..yourself includes.

Have a wonderful holiday!
Respectfully,

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[kerby9mm]

Good excuse to go buy another carry gun. You'll have the new one for now & for when you get the kahr back & the time it takes to trust it again.

[Automatic]

Just got off the phone with Kahr (10 days since my last call to them).
Was told it's still in the queue to be looked at. Meaning they haven't done anything to it since it arrived 12/1! Told "maybe" another week.

What is most disturbing to me, is they don't even apologize for the inconvenience.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying my new PM9
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151228/e760b509efbcd2132a69cdee0848aa07.jpg
Oh wait..that's a Glock 43. No "break-in" necessary.

Took it out of the box (literally) and put 250rds through it. Took it home cleaned it and shot another hundred of mixed JHP & FMJ through it with zero problems.
Hope someone from Kahr monitors the board. I really hope they step up their game soon.

Respectfully

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[yqtszhj]

I understand your frustration. My cw45 frame was replaced in about 10 days so it didnt take so long.
Glad your glock 43 worked out. I think they have had good luck with those. My g19 gen 4 (with the correct updated recoil spring) took a 400 round breakin to be reliable. Had ftf something terrible. My 30s has been 100% since day one. Ive only had a 50% success rate out of the box with glock so I'm not impressed they are any better than others in my experience but others mileage may vary. They're all just tools that break.

Now my kahr 9mm's have been 100% since day and round one. .45's took a little more effort.

[Automatic]

Yeah..It's funny how one's own experience shapes their perception.

My last Glock purchase was the 19, I purchased new in 1994..still have it. It is still completely original (including the recoil spring). It has NEVER failed to fire a single round & has chambered everything I ever fed it (wide variety, including some real garbage rounds). So far this little 43 is following in it's footsteps.

The CW45, I bought new in 2012. Got it home & did all this "break-in" stuff that the forum recommended. I also had to sand down a polymer burr on the frame that was interfering with the trigger. Few FTFs & couple failures to go into battery fully during the first 200rds. After that I noticed that it wouldn't reliably feed that original style HydraShoks I have.

In all, little stuff that I over looked because I like the other attributes of the firearm.

I've been without the firearm for over a month now & understand why everyone on here goes through the effort to fix the issues themselves...

Appreciate the words of encouragement. As others have pointed out, this forum is really great.
I actually believe that without this group, that Kahr would have an even higher rate of return on their products.
Respectfully



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[Automatic]

***UPDATE***

I spoke with Kahr service again on 1/7/16 at lunch, to check the status of my CW45 as it had reached another 'estimated' repair completion date.

The gentleman I spoke with told me "They are working on it right now. It should be at (dealer's shop) by mid-next week."
I thanked him for the information. I was glad that something was finally being done with my firearm.

I then asked him "By the way, what did the issue turn out to be?"
Kahr service replied "uuuh... I'm don't know. They haven't typed it up yet. It's near the top of the queue."
(this left me a little perplexed but, I didn't want to push the issue... figured I'd let it ride & hopefully they'd have the gun returned by next week)

You can imagine my surprise when I received a call from my dealer the NEXT afternoon (1/8) telling me my gun had been returned & I could come pick it up. (Hmm.)
So on my way home from work I stop at the shop. The place is mobbed with everyone wanting to get on the range. Told dealer I was surprised it was in, as I'd spoke with Kahr the day before.

They go and grab it from the back. (I'd put everything back in the original box & watched my dealer package it the night I'd took it in for repair) Dealer opens the original box I'd gotten when I purchased the gun. Gun is in a ziplock bag inside.
OK... I pay them the $23+ for the shipping and I sign the receipt saying I've picked my gun back up.

Ask dealer..."did they ever say what was wrong"?
Dealer says "We never opened the box cause we've been swamped, let me check... paper inside says they INSPECTED: Replaced frame with a new serial number; Replaced Trigger Bar; Tested OK". (crap)
Looks at second piece of paper. From Kahr stating (dealer's shop) is no longer the owner of old frame serial number. Dealer is now owner of new serial number firearm.
Since they'd sent it in the original box (with my original serial number on the outside) my dealer never thought anything about it.

Now.. I need copies of all the paperwork stating MY gun has been taken by Kahr. I had to pay my dealer for another background check and wait.. another 3 days (state law), before I can pick up my 'new' (made from parts of my old one) gun from the dealer.

Biggest issue for me is Kahr customer service.- Substandard
Their product failed miserably (frame and trigger bar failure is not like an issue with a spring or the finish of their product. The MAIN components FAILED within a short time). They should be embarrassed.
1) I was charged for shipping. Upon seeing the type of failure it was, I believe a quality manufacturer would offered to reimburse me for the shipping cost or at least the cost they knew I'd have to incur for the new background check.
2) They completely understated the turnaround time. Instead of being honest with me from the onset, they continually kept telling me "another week". (each time I contacted them, was only AFTER another estimate was reached... had they told me 6 weeks at the onset, they would've never gotten a call from me)
3) They LIED to me when I asked about the repairs that were made. The repairs would have had to have been completed and in the system when I spoke to them mid-day Thursday, for my dealer to receive the gun when they did. Otherwise Kahr would've sent a New serial number out BEFORE it was in their system. ATF wouldn't be real happy to hear that.

At this point, I'm VERY unhappy with Kahr and I'm going to make it a point, to share my experience with others in the training courses I take.. so that they can make an informed decision. I seriously hope that others here are treated better by them.

Thanks to everyone here that tried to make the experience more positive. You guys are one of the few things Kahr has going for them.

Respectfully,

[Automatic]

***UPDATE***

I spoke with Kahr service again on 1/7/16 at lunch, to check the status of my CW45 as it had reached another 'estimated' repair completion date.

The gentleman I spoke with told me "They are working on it right now. It should be at (dealer's shop) by mid-next week."
I thanked him for the information. I was glad that something was finally being done with my firearm.

I then asked him "By the way, what did the issue turn out to be?"
Kahr service replied "uuuh... I'm don't know. They haven't typed it up yet. It's near the top of the queue."
(this left me a little perplexed but, I didn't want to push the issue... figured I'd let it ride & hopefully they'd have the gun returned by next week)

You can imagine my surprise when I received a call from my dealer the NEXT afternoon (1/8) telling me my gun had been returned & I could come pick it up. (Hmm.)
So on my way home from work I stop at the shop. The place is mobbed with everyone wanting to get on the range. Told dealer I was surprised it was in, as I'd spoke with Kahr the day before.

They go and grab it from the back. (I'd put everything back in the original box & watched my dealer package it the night I'd took it in for repair) Dealer opens the original box I'd gotten when I purchased the gun. Gun is in a ziplock bag inside.
OK... I pay them the $23+ for the shipping and I sign the receipt saying I've picked my gun back up.

Ask dealer..."did they ever say what was wrong"?
Dealer says "We never opened the box cause we've been swamped, let me check... paper inside says they INSPECTED: Replaced frame with a new serial number; Replaced Trigger Bar; Tested OK". (crap)
Looks at second piece of paper. From Kahr stating (dealer's shop) is no longer the owner of old frame serial number. Dealer is now owner of new serial number firearm.
Since they'd sent it in the original box (with my original serial number on the outside) my dealer never thought anything about it.

Now.. I need copies of all the paperwork stating MY gun has been taken by Kahr. I had to pay my dealer for another background check and wait.. another 3 days (state law), before I can pick up my 'new' (made from parts of my old one) gun from the dealer.

Biggest issue for me is Kahr customer service.- Substandard
Their product failed miserably (frame and trigger bar failure is not like an issue with a spring or the finish of their product. The MAIN components FAILED within a short time). They should be embarrassed.
1) I was charged for shipping. Upon seeing the type of failure it was, I believe a quality manufacturer would offered to reimburse me for the shipping cost or at least the cost they knew I'd have to incur for the new background check.
2) They completely understated the turnaround time. Instead of being honest with me from the onset, they continually kept telling me "another week". (each time I contacted them, was only AFTER another estimate was reached... had they told me 6 weeks at the onset, they would've never gotten a call from me)
3) They LIED to me when I asked about the repairs that were made. The repairs would have had to have been completed and in the system when I spoke to them mid-day Thursday, for my dealer to receive the gun when they did. Otherwise Kahr would've sent a New serial number out BEFORE it was in their system. ATF wouldn't be real happy to hear that.

At this point, I'm VERY unhappy with Kahr and I'm going to make it a point, to share my experience with others in the training courses I take.. so that they can make an informed decision. I seriously hope that others here are treated better by them.

Thanks to everyone here that tried to make the experience more positive. You guys are one of the few things Kahr has going for them.

Respectfully,