CM9 Accuracy Issues

[dfborn]

Ok. Here's the deal. I know, and agree, that more likely than not an accuracy issue is going to be shooter rather than firearm related. I also know that even people who know that, think that they're an exception. Well, I'm no different. Here's the thing:

I bought the Kahr after being a Sig only guy because of it's size and I didn't like the SAO 938/238s. First time out, the trigger took some getting used to, but it wasn't that different from the first round DA pull from the Sigs. My wife and I enjoyed the first time out with it immensely and both of us did well shooting at 5.5" Orange Peel targets from CCW distances.

Since then, I feel like the accuracy has only gotten worse. The only change that was made to the firearm, other than being broken-in, is that I replaced the front sight with a night sight. Recently, I took it out to test some reloads and couldn't hit anything. I assumed that maybe they were just too hot and that was the problem, but today I took it out with WWB and couldn't hit an 8.5"x11" piece of paper from about 15 ft away.

By the way, I hate the bar-dot style sights so I just line the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight. I emailed Kahr to ask if the Trijicon front sight in conjunction with the standard bar rear sight and they said: "We are not sure if the current combination of sights would be an issue or not. the height of the Trijicon rear sight is the same as the height of the standard day sight."

I bought a Lasermax for it as well, but haven't really tried to use it yet because I want to get it worked out with the irons first.

Also, I don't think it's that I've declined in general as a shooter, I'm still doing well with every other firearm we own.

Any suggestions?

[RRP]

Dry practice (http://weaponsman.com/?p=18416) is extremely beneficial, if you are disciplined enough to do it.

[dfborn]

I hear ya, and did quite a bit today before I went to the range. Even did some with the laser on to make sure I wasn't jerking it.

[deadeye]

Must be something in the mods causing it as it was fine before. Once I figured out the trigger mine has been dead on for 3 years. No mods. However I am not that good. 3" pattern at 25'. Also, however I am 71 years old with failing eyesight and arthritis. (Excuses!):)

[yqtszhj]

Is it consistently bad in one direction high or low since the sight replacement, or all over the place?

I'm an oddball and like the bar dot sights. Even put them on another gun too.

[dfborn]

Is it consistently bad in one direction high or low since the sight replacement, or all over the place?

It seems all over the place. But I need to get out again soon with a BIG piece of paper to know for sure.

[muggsy]

Buy some snap caps. Have someone load a magazine with a mix of live rounds and snap caps in no particular order. Then you shoot the gun and you'll find out very quickly if it's you or the gun. Another alternative is to find someone who is familiar with Kahr firearms and have them shoot your gun. At 21 feet you should be able to keep all of your shots within the confines of a 3" orange target paster.

[jocko]

listen to Muggsy, he took the words right out of my ass. He is right in what he is saying. It ain't thegun I haveover 34K rounds thru my PMJ9 and I am not a good shot but at 7 yardsj, I am still not a good shot. Kahrs are not the easiest to shoot in the same hole or for me even near the same hold. All of my targets are one shot targets, just looks so much better pinned on my wall when people see it, they don't know. Practice does not make perfect but perfect practice does. keep at it and u will figure it out. don't compare it to any single action weapon or IMO to even a glock. That looooong but totallysmoth kahr trigger is awesome but frustrating tomany. I can attest that my glock 43 shoots circles around my PMJ9, but I know who is at fault to. I accept it,. Ican keep every shot in the bowling pin FBI silhouette target at 7 yards, certainly no 3"groups but they are all i there4. That is all I care about. U have a great gun, IMO the best pcket carry gun u cn ever buy, but lso IMO if your gonna waiste band carry it, then IMO there are other alittel bigger 9's out there tht will let you shoot them better. The glock 43 is one of them, IMO...

the snap cap thing is IMO the best idea and muggsy hit it right. dry firing is OK but you never get that bang thing either and that is what separates the men from the sheep.. the trouble with flinching and jerking is that this all happens at the same time the BNG thing happens, sop u really never see or fell that happening but if a mysterious snap cap comes along , trust me, you will convince aqnd show urself that, yup I need to work more on my shooting..

[kwh]

Be sure the front sight is tight and did not move.

[CJB]

couldn't hit an 8.5"x11" piece of paper from about 15 ft away.



Lets do the math.

Sight radius - I'd have to measure but lets say 5.25 inches.
Distance from center of paper to nearest edge is 4.25 inches
Distance from front sight to paper is 180 inches

You'd have to move the the front or rear sight .124 inches (close enough to 1/8 inch) to miss the edge of the paper

Assuming the sights are CENTERED, you'd have be about .160 inches "off" to miss the top or bottom of the paper. You can't go .160 low with the front sight, so is you're new front sight something over a quarter inch tall?

If not, its all you, sir!

Sights can be adjusting by using a hammer to hit a punch that moves the sight, when the slide is securely fastened in a sturdy vice.

In your case... I suspect we'll have to crunch your trigger finger a bit in a vice, than just hit it directly with a hammer a few times while still in the vice. That oughta make you think about where your hittin'!

[pbagley]

Good stuff already said above. I have only one thing to add: If you want better accuracy then you should buy a CM40. I have both. The CM9 is not as accurate. Both are the same size and I can use the same holsters with either. If I take them both to the range the CM40 always prints a better group. Always. The down side is that the CM40 kicks a bit more. Keep your thumbs in check or you may drop the magazine or lock the slide back.

Good luck.

[muggsy]

Lets do the math.

Sight radius - I'd have to measure but lets say 5.25 inches.
Distance from center of paper to nearest edge is 4.25 inches
Distance from front sight to paper is 180 inches

You'd have to move the the front or rear sight .124 inches (close enough to 1/8 inch) to miss the edge of the paper

Assuming the sights are CENTERED, you'd have be about .160 inches "off" to miss the top or bottom of the paper. You can't go .160 low with the front sight, so is you're new front sight something over a quarter inch tall?

If not, its all you, sir!

Sights can be adjusting by using a hammer to hit a punch that moves the sight, when the slide is securely fastened in a sturdy vice.

In your case... I suspect we'll have to crunch your trigger finger a bit in a vice, than just hit it directly with a hammer a few times while still in the vice. That oughta make you think about where your hittin'!

If he's all over the paper adjusting the sights won't help a thing. I'm betting that it's in his grip or that he's anticipating recoil. A small handgun with a short sight radius isn't the easiest gun in the world to shoot. The long DAO trigger takes time to master. If the barrel is clean and everything is tight the problem is the shooter.

[jocko]

Good stuff already said above. I have only one thing to add: If you want better accuracy then you should buy a CM40. I have both. The CM9 is not as accurate. Both are the same size and I can use the same holsters with either. If I take them both to the range the CM40 always prints a better group. Always. The down side is that the CM40 kicks a bit more. Keep your thumbs in check or you may drop the magazine or lock the slide back.

Good luck.

the accuracy of the two caliers, to me makes no sense. Maybe your particulartwo guns is showing a difference, but think about it for a second. Just sayin

[berettabone]

Good stuff already said above. I have only one thing to add: If you want better accuracy then you should buy a CM40. I have both. The CM9 is not as accurate. Both are the same size and I can use the same holsters with either. If I take them both to the range the CM40 always prints a better group. Always. The down side is that the CM40 kicks a bit more. Keep your thumbs in check or you may drop the magazine or lock the slide back.

Good luck. I shoot mostly .40 cal...............................I seem to be the most accurate with that caliber, regardless of firearm used. I have had others tell me the same thing. The snap of the .40 round seems to get me back on target a lot quicker.

[CJB]

If he's all over the paper adjusting the sights won't help a thing. I'm betting that it's in his grip or that he's anticipating recoil. A small handgun with a short sight radius isn't the easiest gun in the world to shoot. The long DAO trigger takes time to master. If the barrel is clean and everything is tight the problem is the shooter.

Muggs..... You failed to read BETWEEN my lines.

[Scarywoody]

I'm a Glock shooter and bought the CM9 (before the G43 came out) and had the same difficulty. You have to spend the time and get used to the trigger. I try to squeeze to the point before it "breaks" and realign. That helped quite a bit. Because of the size, smaller grip, shorter barrel, it will never be a target pistol. I get about a 4" group at 21 feet.

[CJB]

To be honest, I was a squeeze ... almost...hold it... sort of guy. That was the very thing that was screwin' me up. Trying to use the Kahr like a single action trigger of sorts.

I concentrated on the nice long smooth pull, all the way through, and after practice (and a ton of dry firing), its not too bad!

I can do better with my SP101, or HiPower Competition, or 5 inch Government Model Colt .45 Automatics, but...

Ya know what? I can hit a bull in the ass any time I wanna. Good enough.

[leftysixty]

Good stuff already said above. I have only one thing to add: If you want better accuracy then you should buy a CM40. I have both. The CM9 is not as accurate. Both are the same size and I can use the same holsters with either. If I take them both to the range the CM40 always prints a better group. Always. The down side is that the CM40 kicks a bit more. Keep your thumbs in check or you may drop the magazine or lock the slide back.

Good luck.

I always shot my PM40 better than my CW40, wait for it ------ Because I had to grip the PM40 tighter to hang on to it.

Just say'n!

[tjs721]

I'd bench rest it and see if your new front sight is on.


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[OvalNut]

I'll say this. I got a PM9 with the standard bar dot sights, and I LOVE the sight picture. It is very intuitive to hit center mass with this gun, very much point and shoot and the bad guy takes one in the chest. I will eventually go to a Big Dot front night sight though, as I get the utility of that. All things considered though, for me it's bar dots sights for the win!


Tim

[jocko]

I'm a Glock shooter and bought the CM9 (before the G43 came out) and had the same difficulty. You have to spend the time and get used to the trigger. I try to squeeze to the point before it "breaks" and realign. That helped quite a bit. Because of the size, smaller grip, shorter barrel, it will never be a target pistol. I get about a 4" group at 21 feet.

now there is one great honest evualation.

[getsome]

All things being equal, I don't think it's the sight since the shots are all over the place and I don't know about the ammo but WWB is just range fodder and it might be a good idea to spring for a couple boxes of good carry stuff and see if it gets better....I have a PM40 and don't much carry it much anymore but do shoot it at the range and sometimes if I haven't shot it in a while it takes a little work to get the grip right and start hitting something....A trick I use if I'm way off is to run the target in real close and shoot until I start hitting then slowly move it out a yard or two and again and again until I can hit at 20 feet or so....Not sure why that works for me but it does, weak eyes I suppose....Good luck with it and don't give up, let another good shooter try it and see if their results are different....If nobody can make it shoot straight then something may be out of whack with the gun, not likely but possible and a trip back to the mother ship may be in order ....

[pbagley]

the accuracy of the two caliers, to me makes no sense. Maybe your particulartwo guns is showing a difference, but think about it for a second. Just sayin

Well, my friend, I've never been able to get good accuracy out of any 9mm. 40S&W and 45ACP do much better for me with comparable reloads or factory ammo. The best 9mm accuracy I've seen has been with SD ammo, but at $1 a shot this is not something I can afford to practice with. The best 9mm SD groups from the CM9 are not as good as .40 practice ammo from the CM40.

I've spent a lot of time reloading the 9mm to find a load that produces the best accuracy. With the best of these loads I've been able to consistently put 10 shots on a repair center (10.5" by 10.5") at 25 yards with my CM9. With the CM40 just about any reload I've tried will do the same. With my best 40S&W loads I put all 10 into the black consistently.

I think the CM40 is actually harder to shoot due to the increased recoil. It is certainly more tiring. The CM9 is far more comfortable.

Accuracy with a handgun really depends on basic fundamentals. Sight alignment, trigger control, breath control, calling your shots. I tend to stage the trigger when shooting for accuracy, same as I do with a revolver. It takes a lot of practice. OK, it took a lot of practice for me to be able to shoot accurately. And then the DAO takes even more. You may be the natural I thought I could be when I started... and then the cold hard truth came along.

So getting bask to the original question I have a couple of suggestions.
- Have someone else shoot the gun for accuracy. If this can be a bullseye competitor with at least an expert classification that would be best. If they have their own sub-compact 9mm DAO - even better. Someone who shoots well will help you assess if there is a problem with the gun.
- Shoot another 9mm sub-compact and see how you do. Perhaps that friend who is checking out your CM9 will let you try his sub-compact 9mm. Or... some ranges have rentals.
- Dry fire exercises are great. A friend and I bought pellet pistols at Camp Perry many years ago. His assessment was that shooting the pellet gun was like dry fire with instrumentation. The little .177 holes are a real indication of what you're doing wrong. It's been a good training tool.

The more you practice the better you'll shoot. Accept that the 9mm in a sub-compact DAO platform is going to group inside the 8 ring at 25 yards (8's and better) on your best of days. OK, my best days. You may be able to do better. If so, I salute you.

Good luck!

[gmcjetpilot]

I am glad this thread is going. I thought I was a good shot. My first sub compact was a LC9 Ruger, shot 100% on CCW test. (Of course that is just hitting the target 50 times anywhere in the silhouette.) I went to the CM9 and always shot it well. I also have a Glock G26. The G26 is easier to shoot and more accurate or easier to shoot to faster and accurately than the Kahr CM9, apples and apples the G26 is bigger = easier to shoot. However G26 does not fit in pocket.

However I went on a 22LR shooting kick, shooting only my Ruger MKIII and Buckmark, with red dots and scope, even on bag at long range (+50 feet) and trying for. I got use to shooting them. I realized I had not shot my CM9 in a long time, 6 months. I could not hit anything. Other factors (EXCUSES) besides not shooting the gun in a long while, the old low budget gun range I shoot at is dim, hard to see the front sight. I also went to bi-focal glasses a year or two ago. I also reload my own 9mm. Not sure if the accuracy was the ammo, likely not.

Always shooting 150 rounds of 22LR's first, drilling the target at 17 yards. Then shooting my sub compact 9mm pistols, I was very inconsistent, some wild shots more than +12 inches from aim point :mad: After putting on new sights trijicon sights from Kahr on the CM9 (which really has nothing to do with my accuracy, just wanted them), I decided 9mm only practice was the ticket.

At first I had target too far, 13 yards. I brought it back to 7 yards. I took time to aim, focus on front sight, breath, squeeze, bulls eye! Great. That felt good. However shooting was still inconsistent, and accuracy really suffered if I tried to shoot faster. After a 100 rounds of practice, with both G26 and CM9, taking a second between shots, with target @ 7 yards final group was about 7.5" to 9", consistently most shots 5" low left. Not great but better. Note is was off with the G26 as well, and it also got better with practice. There is a slight sight aim point different between guns, so it took a little trial and error. Bottom line CM9 is a small, light, short barrel, light weight 9mm pistol, which is a challenge to get accurate groups, and it takes practice.

Lesson learned PRACTICE with your SD gun.

Only shooting a 6" barrel match 22 pistols with a short crisp 2 to 3 lb trigger pull and fancy optics, does not prepare you to shoot a SD sub sub compact 9mm with iron sights.

Regarding sights, I decided to get the kahr trijicon sights (through Kahr). I can say that has nothing to do with me shooting better or worse. The standard sights worked good when I was proficient with the gun. Trigger control is important. One issue with accuracy for me personally is my pinkie finger gets pinched or rubbed wrong on the corner of the magazine. I have done all I can, short of wear a glove. This gives me anticipation of some discomfort or pain, which does not help accuracy. In a SD situation this does not matter. However let's face it a two finger grip is a compromise to a full grip. I have the magazine with extension and HATE IT. It guides my pinky flesh right in the gap between frame and extension to be pinched. I have normal man hands, fairly rough, not meat mittens hands... ha ha. It's just an annoyance.

CM9 is fun snappy gun to shoot, but it no range gun. I can put 50 rounds through it with out blood, and in a self defense situation, the pinkie pain is not going to be a factor. However I DO HAVE TO PRACTICE with this gun to shoot it well.
I DO HAVE TO SHOOT at 7 Yards, not 17 yards....

I am going to try some factory ammo, even a glove and see if I can get accuracy and speed up again. Also I am going to use my single scrip eye glasses and put a LED light up in the shooting booth. Of course in real life save your ass situation none of that will be there. Right now after my last practice, I consider myself acceptable, but not shooting the CM9 in a long time, shooting only 22 target guns, did nothing for my proficiency. Thinking of going to a G19, full grip gun. It is not much bigger than the G26. However these are holster only guns. I love the CM9 for pocket carry. I carry more often with CM9 than holstered guns.

I may look for a PM9, maybe that super rifling in the barrel may help my poor eyesight, aim and general lack of practice... :biggrin1:

[hardluk1]

Could have started a new tread and let this one stay asleep and started your own tread !!


So you reload but shoot your 9mm's badly and don't think its the reloads . How can you be sure if its been 6 months . Sounds more like you just don't shoot anything but .22lr much . How about you buy some know quality ammo like speer lawman 124gr then try shooting from a solid rest so you will know what each handgun can do . Then using only one handgun at a time see how you do shooting it till done with it . I would not mix shooting time between two handguns as different as a glock and kahr and after 6 months of not shooting ether and expect good group size . If you take one handgun at a time , shoot away the first few rounds or mag full to get your head and finger right with that handgun then shoot I till your done with it for the day . Put that one away and start over again . Mixing handguns is not conducive to good groups for a guy that does not shoot much . Or for old farts that soot a lot !!

One day you may reach a point the no matter what you shoot , even a new to you handgun you will know it takes a few rounds fired to get your finger and head right and you may shoot any handgun well .

I shoot a fair amount and have a defensive practice range at home and reload and shoot about 6 thousand rounds a year . I know I can shoot a 2lb triggered .22lr then pick up my cm9 and the first mag full will look like hell !! but it get better toward the last round or two . Second mag will be spot on! That only comes with lots of trigger time . Then I pick up my sig 320 and first couple rounds will not be as good as they can be for but a few rounds latter it's good to go too . I always finish a range day with my current carry pistol . So long as trigger types , grip angle and general feel or close to the same they all work well . I wear tri-focals .

[berettabone]

I've always been able to shoot .40 and .45 better than 9mm....................That's why I carry .40 cal.

[ZardozCZ]

Gmcjetpilot, I carry my CM9 daily but shoot it poorly compared to my others. I'm good enough with it for center mass rapid fire though, at a range it might be needed, and for me that is all I ask of it. It's not for bullseye. I have painted the sights and that helps speed up acquisition. I shoot my K9 better for sure, and my CZ 75s better than the Kahrs, but they're not as comfortable for carry.

I shoot my CM9 nearly every non-league range trip. I do improve with it, so it's very worth the ammo. I have more fun with the others, but the CM9 is a constant. It's in the car or fanny pack even if I'm carrying other. I need to keep up my skill and confidence with it.

Just hang in there, shoot it often with rapid mag changes as part of the drill. The more it becomes second nature to you the more likely you'll survive a situation where it's needed, and that's what this pistol is about. For me anyway.

[gmcjetpilot]

Could have started a new tread and let this one stay asleep and started your own tread !!Why start a new thread? This is already started and consistent to the topic. I think it is appropriate place to post.

So you reload but shoot your 9mm's badly and don't think its the reloads . Not what I said. I said I reload, it could affect it but not likely (or likely that much). Ammo might be a small error. Human error dominates the accuracy or lack of accuracy.

Sounds more like you just don't shoot anything but .22lr much Yep that is what happened. I love the 22LR pistol. Fun to shoot, less expensive and got a new Browning Buckmark, even put a scope on it. I can group 50 rounds in 4" at 50 feet. The Kahr CM9 no matter how good of a shot you are will never do that.

How about you buy some know quality ammo like speer lawman 124gr then try shooting from a solid rest so you will know what each handgun can do . Then using only one handgun at a time see how you do shooting it till done with it . I would not mix shooting time between two handguns as different as a glock and kahr and after 6 months of not shooting ether and expect good group size . If you take one handgun at a time , shoot away the first few rounds or mag full to get your head and finger right with that handgun then shoot I till your done with it for the day . Put that one away and start over again . Mixing handguns is not conducive to good groups for a guy that does not shoot much . Or for old farts that soot a lot !! Yep that is right. I own VERY high end Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST. However I don't shoot $0.75 to $1.00 a round stuff too much. Ammo counts, but in my opinion the human error far dominates the accuracy equation. it's me not ammo.

One day you may reach a point the no matter what you shoot , every new to you handgun you will know it takes a few rounds fired to get your finger and head right and you may shoot any handgun well .
Yes I have been shooting for 35 yrs. I shoot new to me guns well, FULL SIZED GUNS, pistol, revolver, rifle. The Kahr CM9 (not to blame the gun) is a SMALL powerful gun (not 22, 25 or 32 acp). I have 600-800 rounds through my CM9. No stranger to it, and I know it will never be as accurate as a full sized Glock 17. I am not Jerry Miculek or Hikok45 on Youtube, but I was self evaluating my shooting error. I am shooting low left; the common error chart says I am jerking the trigger or tightening grip while pulling trigger. Shooting full sized guns (like my Ruger or Buckmark) is a pleasure. The Kahr small grip with sharp edges or pinch points is not the joy. It does taking getting use to. With that said, my CM9 is a keeper.... small, accurate enough with practice and fits in my pocket. I carry way more often than any gun I have. Any gun on you is better than a gun too big to carry so you leave in your glove box or safe at home. I don't want to carry a 380ACP or smaller.

I shoot a fair amount and have a defensive practice range at home and reload and shoot about 6 thousand rounds a year . I know I can shoot a 2lb triggered .22lr then pick up my cm9 and the first mag full will look like hell !! but it get better toward the last round or two . Second mag will be spot on! That only comes with lots of trigger time . Then I pick up my sig 320 and first couple rounds will not be as good as they can be for but a few rounds latter it's good to go too . I always finish a range day with my current carry pistol . So long as trigger types , grip angle and general feel or close to the same they all work well . I wear tri-focals. . Thanks good to know I am not the only one.

[gmcjetpilot]

Gmcjetpilot, I carry my CM9 daily but shoot it poorly compared to my others. I'm good enough with it for center mass rapid fire though, at a range it might be needed, and for me that is all I ask of it. It's not for bullseye. I have painted the sights and that helps speed up acquisition. I shoot my K9 better for sure, and my CZ 75s better than the Kahrs, but they're not as comfortable for carry.

I shoot my CM9 nearly every non-league range trip. I do improve with it, so it's very worth the ammo. I have more fun with the others, but the CM9 is a constant. It's in the car or fanny pack even if I'm carrying other. I need to keep up my skill and confidence with it.

Just hang in there, shoot it often with rapid mag changes as part of the drill. The more it becomes second nature to you the more likely you'll survive a situation where it's needed, and that's what this pistol is about. For me anyway.Thank you; my main carry gun is the CM9 simply because I carry it so easy. It's in my pocket. I think part of it was getting into my precision longer distant 22LR shooting; my mind set was I need to plug 50 rounds in 3" circle... I just have to recalibrate my standards with a small subcompact SD gun. The CM9 is a keeper.

[hardluk1]

After reading your reply I wonder why you reopened his tread . You seem like you know your limits and your issues relate to range time and a different small handgun ain't gona help that . Only an open mind and more practice is needed . 35 years of shooting means little sometimes .

I self evaluate too but with out a tread !! I do it in a log book after each range trip , split times so I can compare loads or handguns , even go as far as how each one is zeroed and ammo used more so for long arms and hunting handguns . Nice to pull out a firearm I have not shot in a while and know which ammo it preferred and what my zero was last time out and conditions . Helps greatly with self evaluating my self . I can pull out a log from 20 years ago and see how I was shooting and what the load was , conditions . I'm not better today , older - slower eye sight sucks !! HA

[gmcjetpilot]

After reading your reply I wonder why you reopened his tread . You seem like you know your limits and your issues relate to range time and a different small handgun ain't gona help that . Only an open mind and more practice is needed . 35 years of shooting means little sometimes. Why wonder why I opened this post? I don't need to justify it. The title of the thread is "CM9 Accuracy Issues". It is common practice before posting to search a forum for existing threads on same subject you are interested in. I opened this old thread up because it applied to something I wanted to discuss. What is better, 20 small threads on the same subject or one? I suggest people don't keep asking the same question over and over in new threads. Search first, read, then post, and only start new threads if needed. In this case I wanted to contribute to an old thread, which is perfectly OK. You all are just going to have to get over it.

Yes I agree shooting 35 years may not mean anything. However being a good shot with high standards it was disconcerting at first to shoot so bad with one particular gun I once shot well. That is all. I thought my analysis was interesting and shared it. I don't need to justify my post, it was fine.


I self evaluate too but with out a tread !! I do it in a log book after each range trip , split times so I can compare loads or handguns , even go as far as how each one is zeroed and ammo used more so for long arms and hunting handguns . Nice to pull out a firearm I have not shot in a while and know which ammo it preferred and what my zero was last time out and conditions. Helps greatly with self evaluating my self . I can pull out a log from 20 years ago and see how I was shooting and what the load was , conditions . I'm not better today , older - slower eye sight sucks !! HAGood for you. I am glad you "self evaluate too with out a tread." I assume you mean thread. Thanks good to know, but why are you posting it in this old thread? I don't need a log book to know if my shooting isn't up to par. I often save targets, even hang them up and study later. Looking at your groupings can be educational. So to summarize:

Lack of practice with a specific gun (CM9) and excess practice with another type of gun (Buckmark 22 target pistol with a trigger job and high end red dot) - This is called "negative transfer", where learning/practicing with one gun had negative or deleterious effect on shooting well with another gun. Shooting is motor or muscle memory.

Trigger control - My Browning Buckmark has a short throw 2 Lb competition trigger, and the Kahr CM9 (nice for a gun like this) is a long pull, 6 lb trigger.

"Iron sight" - Red-Dot sight on the Buckmark, is outstanding. I lost gun sight picture discipline. As we all know, you have to focus on the front sight. Cheers.

Ammo, eyesight, low light - Irrelevant or minor issues, most problems for most people are in sight picture and trigger control, all solved with practice and INSTRUCTION. If you have not had professionals training who evaluate your shooting, it is worth it.

[hardluk1]

Hope your helping your self with your self evaluation in this tread but it reads like you have a way to go !! Good luck

[jocko]

My 21 cents, shooting a kahr can make you very humble. They IMO are not an easy gun to shoot accurately, . I attribute that to the loooooog trigger system. Some people also are just noty good shooters. I always felt I was one of those, I have many thousands of rounds tr my PMJ9 and I still shoot it terribly compared to my G43 which basically is the same size EXCENT for its much shorter trigger system. If my G43 was the same size and weight as my PMJ9 it would be my daily carry , but it is not so it is still my home gun. If your buying a kahr to punch holes in the same hole, then your not gonna be hapy, but if you buying a kahr to save your life and be a daily carry, then u done the right thing. Ever since I bought my PMJ9 years ago, it sits next to my wallet in my home, Whenever I leave those two are with me 24/7. In all the guns I have ever owned, no gun has been as comfortable and carrys as nicely as my PMJ9 in my front pocket. I don't dress to carry and don't intend to, but if I felt I just had to carry my G43, then I would have to dress differentely to carry it, and I hate that crap...

a very good way to test groupls out is to put a half dozen snap caps in with 30 rounds and let someone load your magazine for you,. Trust me it will show ur ills real fast, dry firing will not do that....

[gmcjetpilot]

Hope your helping your self with your self evaluation in this tread but it reads like you have a way to go !! Good luck
I am going to ignore your trolling. I understand the topic is over your head. Have a nice day.

[John A]

LOL, I picked up the same vibe after his reply to my Kahr PM 9193 with enhanced trigger (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?28901-Kahr-PM-9193-with-enhanced-trigger) post.

[John222]

It took me a very long time to learn to shoot my CM9. I started bad, got better, then got worse. Over the next few years I alternated between bad and worse. Now, I'm consistently OK and getting better. To sum it up, you expect to get better every time out, not exactly true with a CM9. It's so small and the trigger pull is so long it require more skill than most other pistols.

[Tilos]

"Iron sight" - Red-Dot sight on the Buckmark, is outstanding. I lost gun sight picture discipline. As we all know, you have to focus on the front sight. Cheers.

Ammo, eyesight, low light - Irrelevant or minor issues, most problems for most people are in sight picture and trigger control, all solved with practice and INSTRUCTION. If you have not had professionals training who evaluate your shooting, it is worth it.

As we age (over 43-45) our eyes can no longer focus on things close (like frt sights) without glasses for correction.
A red dot sight puts the focal point of the dot on/at the target distance, add to that a single action trigger, and we all would shoot that combo better.

A pair of drugstore reading glasses a .250 to 0.5 diopter weaker than your reading perscription should get you crystal clear resolution of the front sight.
Measure the distance from your eye to the front sight and step back that far when "testing" different power glasses at the store.
I take a red tipped common pin to the store and stick it in the display and step back the measured distance to try different power glasses.

This has allowed me to shoot guns with iron sights again, and some just turn their bi-focals upside down to shoot:cool:, might work for you:confused:
jmo
:biggrin1:

[Alfonse]

Once you find what diopter works for you to shoot iron sights, you can buy safety glasses with the same diopter for going to the range. I think I bought my last set off Amazon.

[Tilos]

Once you find what diopter works for you to shoot iron sights, you can buy safety glasses with the same diopter for going to the range. I think I bought my last set off Amazon.
yep, and they sell both single vision and bifocal sunglasses too, that are safety rated.
:)

[jocko]

It took me a very long time to learn to shoot my CM9. I started bad, got better, then got worse. Over the next few years I alternated between bad and worse. Now, I'm consistently OK and getting better. To sum it up, you expect to get better every time out, not exactly true with a CM9. It's so small and the trigger pull is so long it require more skill than most other pistols.

yup u could not have said it better. Trigger discipline in a kahr is #1 above all things. . Practive does not make perfectr, but perfect practice does. I know of a few kaqhr owners in my area that sold off thei8r kahrs as they said they just could not hit anything. Wasnit the gun but again if it doesn't fit you and please you, then maybe it is time to move on to anutter brand. Atmy age 72 my eyes are certaihnly not good,I went to fiber optic on my Kahr and ithelped alot, but I have never been a good handgun shooter. When I sneak a snap cap or two in my magazne, it really shows my anticipation of the BANG thing happening. I just have never been able to shake that either. Just sayin