Bulldog or Witness?

[CJB]

I gotta say, I am just amazed at the quality for so little money with the Charter Arms Pitbull .45 ACP I got a few weeks ago.

The one fault I "thought" it had, turns out not to be, but instead a swage type of crimp on the hole where the cylinder stop pin is fitted. All the new ones have that "raised ring" around the hole (which I thought was beaten down flash on the hole).

I wish they had one in 4 inch or 5 inch.. adjustable sights, in .45 ACP. Would be a no brainer to get get a nice fun revolver to shoot on the semi-cheep, as there are k's and k's of .45acp ammo floatin' about the abode.

So, was thinking, maybe a Witness .45, poly frame, compact, 8+1 as the next in the line of .45ACP handguns.

Either that, or... maybe a Charter Bulldog "On Duty" (exposed, but shrouded hammer).

As for the Witness... can't have too many .45's, and I've got enought big .45's to hold me past Armageddon's 100th anniversary.

As for the Bulldog... well, its a new caliber. Don't have oodles of .44 SPECIAL floating around. But its smaller than the Pitbull and still packs a big punch.

And... somebody's gonna say "get one of each!" Nope. Not now. Just one.

Thoughts?

[Bawanna]

Funny I held a gently used Bulldog at our local gunshow last weekend. On one of the good guys tables too. I used to have a Bulldog Pug I think they called it at the time. It shot really nice for a 44 spl, not uncomfortable at all.

I wanted it bad but wasn't in the financial cards. Try again next month but I don't foresee a much better outcome.

Fella can dream though.

[gb6491]

"I wish they had one in 4 inch or 5 inch.. adjustable sights, in .45 ACP. Would be a no brainer to get get a nice fun revolver to shoot on the semi-cheep, as there are k's and k's of .45acp ammo floatin' about the abode."
As your Pitbull would suffice for social scenarios, have you considered a Target Bulldog in .44?
I have an older one and like the size/feel. I usually feed it .44 Russian as they eject a little better (and I still have quite a bit on hand from some closeout sale)
http://i46.tinypic.com/16a1r1s.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[zaitcev]

As for the Witness... can't have too many .45's, and I've got enought big .45's to hold me past Armageddon's 100th anniversary.

I keep a list of .45 ACP guns that I would like to get, but is far too long and includes some pretty expensive pieces. Nothing made by EAA is on it though, certainly not Witness. Although everyone goes gaga over it, CZ 75 never did it for me.

A 1911 from a mainstream company like Ruger or Remington
Boberg XR45-S
Springfield XD-S
Sig P250 .45 - subcompact chassis
Glock 30S -- 10+1 in 2-stack
Vector Uzi .45
FNX-45
Marlin Camp
Pardini GT45
Delta AR - CZ52 in .45
Korriphila HSP 701
KRISS Vector - too long with civilian barrel
Beretta (Stoeger) Cougar 8045 .45
Thompson "Tommy" - Auto Ordance builds 16" and SBRs
Mike Krause Luger
UD-42 - rare collectible, costs a fortune, machine gun
Liberator FP-45 -- repro okay
Ranger Point Precision converts Marlin 1894 with Douglas Barrels, $2,050 in '15
DeLisle silent - way too collectible; Valkyrie Arms builds a replica
AJ Ordnance Thomas - grip-delayed!
Semmerling - manually operated pistol
Beretta PX4 - rotating barrel, nicely shooting supposedly.
Cobra Patriot 45 - Republic Arms / Kodiak Patriot
H&K USC - sporting version of UMP, discontinued 2013
Hogue Avenger - .45 uppper for 1911 with a lever-delayed blowback
Walther PPQ - the M2 versions come with button magazine release
Sig P220/P227 .45 - it's a Sig
Ruger Redhawk Model 5032 - new in 2015; 44 oz! $1029 MSRP!
S&W 22-4 - from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMh3vX-3SE
Taurus Tracker 455 (no longer in production in 2014) - open hammer

[CJB]

First of all... holy jeeze o pete! I love that purple on the Charter, Greg!!!

Like some of those blued Security Six Rugers, some of the old Blackhawk Rugers too... they get that purple tinge. Saw a Super Blackhawk grip frame that was almost lavender in the back from going purple, then wearing.

I thought of the .44 Special. I've got .45LC here, and frankly... I'm on the fence. I don't shoot much 45LC, its for the Vaquero, but... I dunno, that Target Bulldog with 4" barrel is somethin' to consider. New ones are stainless, got a redesigned front sight, and a full length (and slightly ball milled) underlug.

Cowboy loads in .44 SP would be fun, sorta like those Russians. Come to lookin' the Russians are available, and basically the same price or cheaper than the 44 Specials! Who would have guess that !

And I see 245g @ 830fps - 369ft/lbs. Close enough to .45acp for any social occasions too.

[CJB]

I keep a list of .45 ACP guns that I would like to get, but is far too long and includes some pretty expensive pieces. Nothing made by EAA is on it though, certainly not Witness. Although everyone goes gaga over it, CZ 75 never did it for me.

A 1911 from a mainstream company like Ruger or Remington
Boberg XR45-S
Springfield XD-S
Sig P250 .45 - subcompact chassis
Glock 30S -- 10+1 in 2-stack
Vector Uzi .45
FNX-45
Marlin Camp
Pardini GT45
Delta AR - CZ52 in .45
Korriphila HSP 701
KRISS Vector - too long with civilian barrel
Beretta (Stoeger) Cougar 8045 .45
Thompson "Tommy" - Auto Ordance builds 16" and SBRs
Mike Krause Luger
UD-42 - rare collectible, costs a fortune, machine gun
Liberator FP-45 -- repro okay
Ranger Point Precision converts Marlin 1894 with Douglas Barrels, $2,050 in '15
DeLisle silent - way too collectible; Valkyrie Arms builds a replica
AJ Ordnance Thomas - grip-delayed!
Semmerling - manually operated pistol
Beretta PX4 - rotating barrel, nicely shooting supposedly.
Cobra Patriot 45 - Republic Arms / Kodiak Patriot
H&K USC - sporting version of UMP, discontinued 2013
Hogue Avenger - .45 uppper for 1911 with a lever-delayed blowback
Walther PPQ - the M2 versions come with button magazine release
Sig P220/P227 .45 - it's a Sig
Ruger Redhawk Model 5032 - new in 2015; 44 oz! $1029 MSRP!
S&W 22-4 - from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMh3vX-3SE
Taurus Tracker 455 (no longer in production in 2014) - open hammer

You forgot the Mauser M2 pistol! And the HK P9s. And the AMT .45 DAO, and....and...

Of those, got Colt .45 Autos galore, Sig 220, FNX, had the P9s (pos). CZ97 might be nice, but they're pretty rare. I used to sell a boat load of 9mm Witness pistols... never a real issue. Odd busted slide stop, or busted spring. Not too fond of slight mounted Baby Eagle III safety.

[yqtszhj]

I'm with you that if Charter had a 4 inch barrel .45 that would be great.

Ive looked at that Ruger Redhawk that will handle .45 with the moon clips a lot recently. I think that would be a blast to shoot. If i can save my pennies maybe next time Grabagun has one in stock I'll be able to afford it.

If they made a GP100 .357 that had a swappable cylinder to 9mm like the SA blackhawks that would be good too. I've just got an itch for a big revolver recently if the $$$ would just cooperate. I'd prefer not to have to start accumulating another caliber too which is where the redhawk would fit in.

[CJB]

Or... A five shot .45acp GP100

[yqtszhj]

Yeah buddy, that would work.

[ltxi]

First of all... holy jeeze o pete! I love that purple on the Charter

...............

That purple be a consequence of the anodizing of the original Charters. My '60s Pathfinder exhibits it, too.

[CJB]

Thought the purple was the steel part?

[gb6491]

Thought the purple was the steel part?
It is...on that Target Bulldog. The frame, barrel (it's shrouded), crane, and cylinder are steel. The barrel shroud and trigger guard/grip are aluminum alloy
I also have a couple of Undercover Charters that show, to varying degrees, some purple on the frame.
http://i43.tinypic.com/suzl7o.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/sgtzly.jpg[
Regards,
Greg

[hardluk1]

Since a ct45 kahrs not on your list how about a sig p320 in 45 in compact 9+1 cap or carry model with 10+1 . A 40 compact is my edc now


Carry http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/96721/SIG+320CA45B+320+45+CRY+CS+10R+BLK

[TheTman]

Charter also makes a 3" blue .44 special. No adjustable sight though. Has wood grips instead of the rubber. No shroud under the barrel for the ejector rod. I like it. It has an old time retro look to it with that exposed ejector rod and the wood grips.

[CJB]

Thiinking I'll be goin for the Bulldog "On Duty" which is shrouded, but accessible hammer.

[Planedude]

I picked up a very old Bulldog today from the local pawnshop. Needs some TLC but hey, it had the Pachmayr Compac grips I would have bought anyway and it is Magna-ported.


Cheeeep at $225.

[CJB]

Wow!~ I nice, and early, first generation Charter Arms Bulldog in .44SP.

Your gun was pre-1974, most likely 68-69ish if production was more or less the same each year.

Some sources say the .44 wasn't made till 74.... total bs, and Charter themselves sez so.

[Planedude]

Yeah, the "Bridgeport Conn" on the barrel sets it as a first gen, while the company was still owned by the founder Doug McClennahan. This gun exhibits some timing issues (dinged cylinder stop) and a little shake of the cylinder on the crane. Luckily the parts to fix these issues can be readily purchased. Taking a Charter completely apart for a full restorative cleaning during such repair is always a pain. I have a four or five gallon zip lock baggy so none of the little washers get "ate by the carpet monster"...

Have not yet decided on the refinishing. Bluing looks good and is my favorite, but since the plan is to rehab it for carry, some of the newer "space age" finishes may be more useful.

As I figure it all out, I'll share more pics. Y'all have a good one.

[CJB]

You know, the current owner, is the son of the former owner... who was 50/50 with the original designer/owner. They got a policy of inexpensive restoration of older revolvers, you might wanna just send it off.

[Planedude]

Thanks for the tip, I'll check with Charter for sure.

[CJB]

Fifty bux. Includes return shippin. Plus parts, but they're cheep.

[gb6491]

I picked up a very old Bulldog today from the local pawnshop. Needs some TLC but hey, it had the Pachmayr Compac grips I would have bought anyway and it is Magna-ported.


Cheeeep at $225.
Excellent find Planedude!

FWIW, In 1979 Mag-N-Port did a run of 250 customized .44 Bulldogs that they called "BACKPACKER". A gent posted photos of his here: https://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=4712265&postcount=13
(https://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=4712265&postcount=13)
Regards,
Greg

[Planedude]

Thanks for the link Greg. That Backpacker must be a handful to shoot with any kind of SD loading. I have always wanted a Bulldog like I fondled in a Kokomo Indiana sporting goods store in 1977. I had the cash money in my pocket for that .44, but was well shy of my 21st birthday. By the time I was old enough, girls, cars and starting a life was the only thing on my mind.
Not that I'm on the "other side" of the hill, with some time and money, I plan to rectify those thing. It does suck to creek, crackle and pop getting up in the morning. It is nice though to get the toys you want "just cause"...

This Bulldog has a rough finish, but no pitting and little (if any) surface rust. The trigger pull is actually very nice and most of the gun seems tight. The peened down cylinder stop and (I'm betting) the loose ejector rod bushing seem like minor things to fix. This Bulldog should rebuild/refinish very nicely.