P45 not resetting its striker

[ulflyer]

I've been reloading for some years, all on Dillon 550's. Set up today to do up some 45's as I'd used up all I had. Used the same powder, primers and load. The problem is, when it fires, it always ejects and loads a new bullet but sometimes it does not reset the striker. Resetting it will often then fire that bullet, but a couple did not. Those two primers shows a light hit.

At first I thought the minimum load was too light and upped it gradually to almost max charge according to Lymans manual. That didn't solve the problem.

What baffles me is:
1. The Kahr fires factory loads perfectly.
2. The reloads fire perfectly in my Colt 1911.

I have in years past fired hundreds of reloads through this P45 using the
same components I used today.

The Kahr was clean and properly lubed. No lube in the striker channel.

Worn out for the day, but tomorrow will dissemble the firing mechanism to check it out and replace the striker spring while I'm at it.

Would appreciate any feedback.

[CJB]

First off, I'd check a few things...

Does your (max) loading lock the slide back when the magazine is empty? That would be a decent indication of adequate oomph.

Light hits... perhaps protruding or not fully seated primers.

I'd want to try "factory" ammo again, before adjusting, or doing anything to the pistol.

Try to determine if its the ammo, or the gun, with a high degree of certainty, not based on past experience.

[ulflyer]

The lighter loads were marginal in locking the slide back...sometimes it did and other times not. I started at the min load....which in the past performed perfectly....and went up to near max. Did not have time to fire but a few mags of 6 each but they did lock back. I've never replaced the striker spring and it has at least 1500 rounds or perhaps 2000 rounds thru it. I stopped counting when I hit 1000. Still, that doesnt account for it not "cocking" after a round is fired. Can't figure that one out.

I think you're right about factory loads; i have several boxes of Rem round nose and will give the Kahr a better workout with some tomorrow. As I mentioned before tho, I ran one full mag of Remington thru with zero malfunctions.

[CJB]

report how the remmys worked out... then we take it from there

could possibly be crud associated with trigger bar, spring, cam and its spring, thats all you really have with reset

even a filthy striker should reset, as its gonna get pushed behind the cam... so something with the cam rotation, and/or trigger bar... maybe check there for clean condition

take off sideplate... have a looksee for debris there too

make sure trigger bar disconnector surface that fits in the slide cut out is not worn

striker spring could cause light hits... naturally, but typically, thats not the issue. Usually rounds don't fully chamber... and the striker ends up sort of pushing things the rest of the way into battery when it hits the primer... instead of indenting the primer. So, you might want to drop test your loads into the barrel - when its removed from the pistol - in order to see that they cartridges slide in easily, and do not sit above the end of the barrel hood.

Report back after some factory loads!

[jocko]

I've been reloading for some years, all on Dillon 550's. Set up today to do up some 45's as I'd used up all I had. Used the same powder, primers and load. The problem is, when it fires, it always ejects and loads a new bullet but sometimes it does not reset the striker. Resetting it will often then fire that bullet, but a couple did not. Those two primers shows a light hit.

At first I thought the minimum load was too light and upped it gradually to almost max charge according to Lymans manual. That didn't solve the problem.

What baffles me is:
1. The Kahr fires factory loads perfectly.
2. The reloads fire perfectly in my Colt 1911.

I have in years past fired hundreds of reloads through this P45 using the
same components I used today.

The Kahr was clean and properly lubed. No lube in the striker channel.

Worn out for the day, but tomorrow will dissemble the firing mechanism to check it out and replace the striker spring while I'm at it.

Would appreciate any feedback.

will if the factory loads work fine then u have to say it is in uyr reloads. because it works in one model does not necessarily mewan it will do the same3 in all models. you need to dop some more experimenting to see what the the cause is. When u say factory loads are u referrng to the hotter defense stuff or just merely new 45 ball ammo???

[ulflyer]

CJB & Jocko: heres where I'm at right now. Ran three mags of Remington hardball thru with only one misfire. On that one the striker did not set and even after resetting it a couple of times that bullet did not fire. Same situation with several reloads like I used yesterday. Again these same misfired loads did fire in my 1911. Took the Winchester primers out....these are several years old but so were the small Win primers that I've used up in 9mm and 380's with zero problems. Somehow I began to think it had to do with primers, so I put in some fresh Federals and ran two mags thru with Zero problems! Its late in the day here now so I may not be able to test these out further till tomorrow evening or perhaps one day next week. I'll load up a box and have them ready.

This still doesn't answer the question of why the "Winchester" loads experienced so many occasions of the striker not cocking. I did pull it apart and it was clean as a pin, no burrs or gunk inside. I did not replace the spring.

BTW, I did the usual plunk test yesterday and today and they drop freely in and out. I'm using a COL of 1.24 with 3.9gr Clays with 200gr lead round nose. Once I'm assured my problem/s are solved, i want to back the load back down to about 3.6.

I'll report again after I've had a chance to put enough thru to know for sure how its doing.

Since I have a Colt 1991A1 and a Sig GSR 1911 type (in shop right now) I suppose if it turns out to be primers, I can use the Winchester to load for these two guns. Hate to waste over 2000 primers. Or maybe just lay them away for future use.

[muggsy]

Is the striker failing to reset or is the trigger failing to reset? From your description I'm thinking trigger rather than striker. Pulling the slide back slightly resets the trigger, not the striker. The striker is reset when the slide comes forward and is captured by the cocking cam. I'd pull the side cover and see if something is amiss with the trigger bar or trigger bar spring.

[CJB]

Good points Muggs

[ulflyer]

Is the striker failing to reset or is the trigger failing to reset? From your description I'm thinking trigger rather than striker. Pulling the slide back slightly resets the trigger, not the striker. The striker is reset when the slide comes forward and is captured by the cocking cam. I'd pull the side cover and see if something is amiss with the trigger bar or trigger bar spring.


That sounds exactly like what is happening. Looking down in from the top the spring looks ok, but obviously can;t see the backside of the trigger bar.

How do I get the side plate off? Slip a small screwdriver or flat blade in the top, near the rear where it looks like a pin, and pry off gently?

I should honestly add that I truly don't understand the mechanics of the above and can only look at the trig bar/spring to see that they are intact. i think i could tell if
the trigger bar is unduly worn tho. I'd love to see an animated film showing how
these things work in slow motion! ;)

[Buzzard45]

The side plate is held on by a torx screw. bit size 5 (i think).
a link for working in this area:
P45 trigger bar sticking fix (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?21904-P45-trigger-bar-sticking-fix)

hope this helps:)

[muggsy]

That sounds exactly like what is happening. Looking down in from the top the spring looks ok, but obviously can;t see the backside of the trigger bar.

How do I get the side plate off? Slip a small screwdriver or flat blade in the top, near the rear where it looks like a pin, and pry off gently?

I should honestly add that I truly don't understand the mechanics of the above and can only look at the trig bar/spring to see that they are intact. i think i could tell if
the trigger bar is unduly worn tho. I'd love to see an animated film showing how
these things work in slow motion! ;)

Remove the Torx head screw and gently pry the side cover off. The screw goes into the polymer frame. Don't over tighten it when you put it back together.
Your wish is my command. Here is a video on how the action works. Note some images have been reversed for clarity. If the trigger bar is hanging up the trigger won't reset. If the slide doesn't go back into full battery the trigger won't reset. Last week I couldn't even spell gunsmith. Now I are one. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRHpolEC_Y&playnext=1&list=PL9C885DAED1AA2EC2&feature=results_main

[gb6491]

Remove the Torx head screw and gently pry the side cover off. The screw goes into the polymer frame. Don't over tighten it when you put it back together.
Your wish is my command. Here is a video on how the action works. Note some images have been reversed for clarity. If the trigger bar is hanging up the trigger won't reset. If the slide doesn't go back into full battery the trigger won't reset. Last week I couldn't even spell gunsmith. Now I are one. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRHpolEC_Y&playnext=1&list=PL9C885DAED1AA2EC2&feature=results_main
Hmm....probably nitpicking, but that might not be universal as my CW45 and CW9 triggers will reset with the slide about .20-.25" out of full battery.

When taking the side plate off: in addition to the screw, some plates attach via a ball socket near the lower left corner:
http://i57.tinypic.com/2rzxgmh.jpg
BTW, some older poly Kahrs have a pin (vice the current screw) in the upper left portion of the plate to hold the plate in place. To remove the pin, look for a dimple where the pin protrudes (doesn't actually break the surface of the polymer) on the opposite side of the frame, put some tape over it to help prevent marring the finish (might not be possible to avoid), and tap the pin until it's flush. Now you should be able to pry the pin out from the plate side.


The OP might want to inspect the trigger bar for any wear or damage that might impede it's reset...something along the lines of this (posted by Tangolima600)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g102/tlukowski/_MG_7927_zps5931579e.jpg

There are a few examples (and fixes) for trigger reset failure listed here: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-%28and-other-poly-45%29-issues-and-fixes (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-%28and-other-poly-45%29-issues-and-fixes)

Regards,
Greg

[muggsy]

Your link doesn't work GB.

[gb6491]

Your link doesn't work GB.
Thank you sir...should now.
Regards,
Greg

[muggsy]

Yup, it's workin'.

[muggsy]

If the slide doesn't go into full battery a light strike can occur, because part of the energy delivered by the striker to the primer is absorbed in moving the slide fully forward. I've seen the same thing happen when primers weren't fully seated. It's not a common problem, but not unheard of.

[ulflyer]

Muggsy: Thanks for all the above info. I can see now how to remove the plate on my P45 as mine is the older type without Torx screw. No problem when I get ready to do that.
In the meantime, since I only had a little daylight left when I got home, I loaded up 15 more rounds to give it another try since the few I shot last evening went so well. These 15 fired perfectly. So, for now, I'm gonna hold off pulling the side plate untill I can load up at least a box to give it a better workout. Any more failures to reset the trigger, and I'll put the plate. For now, what you can see and feel of the trigger mechanism, its smooth and easy, as it should be.

As to the primers: they are definitely being set flush and the bullets drop freely in/out of a Dillon Case Gauge.

I like to know the "why" of things and will preport after I've had a chance to do more experimenting.

Thanks a million to all of you for the feedback and especially the pics. Don't know what I would have done without all the help.

[ulflyer]

Seems as tho the Federal primers have solved the problem I was having with the Winchester primers. Shot a half box more this PM with zero problems. Even tossed
in five 205Gr SWC and they did just fine. No idea why I was having problem with trigger not resetting but since I've had no further problems since I switched to Federals, I'll let it go for now. I won't be comfortable carrying it tho, not till I've run a lot more thru without problems. I've got enough 9mm, actually too many, till I get a 45 up and running to suit me. I'm thinking a Sig GSR 45 I bought a couple weeks ago and sent off to Sig for some work will turn out to be a good one. However, its a 1911 type and I prefer the Kahr.

[DJK11]

Yep, Winchester primers. Been having problems with Win large primers in 45 acp. Two or three hits before ignition, some don't ignite. Used two PM45s and a NiteHawk. Spoke with Winchester and no complaints with my lot#. Winchester may be picking them up for inspection. I'm glade I loaded only 400 rounds.

[ulflyer]

I never had any probs with Win Small primers that were old as the Large primers. Also used a lot of CCI Small and may go back with CCI in the Large once I use up my Federals; unless I can find Feds at less than $35 +tax per thousand. Others go for about $29. The $35 Feds were called "Matched Primers" in a brownish/red box. I picked up a couple of these at a gun show for $30, but at the time, I assumed my supply of older Win Large were good. Dang, I hate to discard two thousand Win primers. May work up a few to try in the Sig 1911 I just got back yesterday. It spit out 6 mags of reloads yesterday PM with no issues. Gonna give it a good workout today as the wx here in NC is still mild.

[muggsy]

CCI is my primer of choice. I've never had a bad one.