Kahr 380 Striker Ultimate Fix

[Alfonse]

Coming in January. What I refer to as a "Super Strength" striker and spacer. Here is a photo showing some of the differences in a plastic printed prototype:

https://lakelinellc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Striker-design-comparison-700-pxl.jpg

The white, plastic part shows the new design above a factory part. First, the striker is much thicker in the area that they fracture. The spacer is thinner to keep the un-sprung travel the same. The material is heat treated S7 tool steel. That is about the toughest steel available for this type of part. Both the striker and spacer in our 380 Striker Solution are machined S7 tool steel. The body of the part is also slightly lengthened to keep the boss from hitting rounds in the magazine while the striker block spacing remains the same to the firing pin.

They are out being made now and will be available in January. You can dry fire this forever and the striker will not fail.

I have have been refining this design for quite awhile. I finally found a shop who can make it cost effectively too.

What do y'all think?

[gb6491]

Sign me up! :)

[Alfonse]

Sign me up! :)

Happy to do that!

[Linthead]

Sign me up! :)

ME TOO!

My P380 is on the third POS Kahr striker and I have no confidence in it or Kahr's concern or ability to address the problem.

[Bobshouse]

I'll take one also!

[muggsy]

There's room for improvement in almost everything. If I were to break a striker in my P380 I'd consider it.

[Whaleman]

Wouldn't there be more money in somehow selling this design to Kahr to use in all guns as opposed to making and selling one at a time? Dan

[Alfonse]

Wouldn't there be more money in somehow selling this design to Kahr to use in all guns as opposed to making and selling one at a time? Dan

Dan, I'm sure Kahr knows how to get hold of me if they are interested. They clearly have talented engineers and could change this part themselves if they desire. That is a bit more complicated for them, because then they would have parts, strikers and spacers, that are not interchangeable and backwards compatible. In our fix, both the striker and spacer need to be changed as a set.

And, even if Kahr changed it moving forward, there are still all those folks out there who already have .380s and would like to upgrade.

[pbagley]

I'm interested in the fix. No problems so far, but it is best to be prepared.

[muggsy]

Dan, I'm sure Kahr knows how to get hold of me if they are interested. They clearly have talented engineers and could change this part themselves if they desire. That is a bit more complicated for them, because then they would have parts, strikers and spacers, that are not interchangeable and backwards compatible. In our fix, both the striker and spacer need to be changed as a set.

And, even if Kahr changed it moving forward, there are still all those folks out there who already have .380s and would like to upgrade.

I believe that the Kahr design is sound, but the heat treating of the part is suspect. Over time dry firing can cause metal to become crystallized and brittle.

[Linthead]

I believe that the Kahr design is sound, but the heat treating of the part is suspect. Over time dry firing can cause metal to become crystallized and brittle.


Heat treating is part of the "design" and is controlled by Kahr.

[Alfonse]

I believe that the Kahr design is sound, but the heat treating of the part is suspect. Over time dry firing can cause metal to become crystallized and brittle.

Muggsy, the logic to our fix is pretty simple. I take the area that was breaking and make it several times stronger by the geometry of the design and then use the toughest material for the application. While I was at it, I also made another change to the geometry that keeps the striker from hitting the round below in the magazine that has caused light strikes for some. To allow the part to be thicker and wider in the weak area, the spacer has to change. Since the spacer is lightly stressed, and the striker is more highly stressed, it works out pretty well. The result might well be called "over built." but that is what makes it the ultimate solution that ends breakage of the part.

[SmokyT]

... , the logic to our fix is pretty simple. I take the area that was breaking and make it several times stronger by the geometry of the design and then use the toughest material for the application. While I was at it, I also made another change to the geometry that keeps the striker from hitting the round below in the magazine that has caused light strikes for some. To allow the part to be thicker and wider in the weak area, the spacer has to change. Since the spacer is lightly stressed, and the striker is more highly stressed, it works out pretty well. The result might well be called "over built." but that is what makes it the ultimate solution that ends breakage of the part.

Great idea! I'll definitely try it when it's available.

[Ronni3_J]

Any idea on pricing yet?

[Alfonse]

Any idea on pricing yet?

Yes, but I haven't decided on it yet. So, I'm not saying right now. :)

[Whaleman]

I have had one broken striker in my P380. I hope this proves out. Dan

[dirtengineer]

I'm quite interested as long as the price isn't crazy.

[ReManG]

Interesting to say the least... If I remember right, S7 can be heat treated to 60 rockwell and still bent 90 degrees... I believe that it was the toughest steel I have ever dealt with when doing tool and die work.. This may be the ticket for a dead nuts reliable striker...

[ulflyer]

Any plans to make these for other models? Particularly the 45 cal.

[Alfonse]

Any plans to make these for other models? Particularly the 45 cal.

I'll have to see how the .380 goes before looking at others. Thanks!~

[z8894]

I'll be ordering one too. I had one break and your design addresses exactly what I think the problem was.

[Bobshouse]

Alfonse, are you going to email us when your ready for payment or post here?

[Alfonse]

Alfonse, are you going to email us when your ready for payment or post here?

I will post here. Thanks!

[Gun Doctor]

I believe that the Kahr design is sound, but the heat treating of the part is suspect. Over time dry firing can cause metal to become crystallized and brittle.

Uh, excuse me, but how can dry firing be more abusive than launching bullets??? If I hit the end of a punch of chisel with a hammer, and the other end of the punch or chisel is NOT in contact with another surface, then the tool just moves through air. If I place the tool tip on a hard surface, and then hit it, I now have compression forces working on the tool. At that time, something HAS to give. Either the surface you are working on (In the case of the striker, this would be the firing pin, and then the primer) has to give, or the tool gives. Often both, resulting in mushrooming of a tool head. So, how is this less damaging?:confused:

[muggsy]

Muggsy, the logic to our fix is pretty simple. I take the area that was breaking and make it several times stronger by the geometry of the design and then use the toughest material for the application. While I was at it, I also made another change to the geometry that keeps the striker from hitting the round below in the magazine that has caused light strikes for some. To allow the part to be thicker and wider in the weak area, the spacer has to change. Since the spacer is lightly stressed, and the striker is more highly stressed, it works out pretty well. The result might well be called "over built." but that is what makes it the ultimate solution that ends breakage of the part.

Please don't think that I'm being at all critical of what you are doing. I don't have any problem with someone building a better mouse trap. All that I'm saying is that I believe Kahr's design to be sound, but that the heat treating process at times is suspect. I don't believe that adding a little material where it can improve reliability is a bad thing even if it slows lock time by a few micro seconds or requires a stronger striker spring. I wouldn't hesitate to use your aftermarket parts should the stock parts fail.

[muggsy]

Uh, excuse me, but how can dry firing be more abusive than launching bullets??? If I hit the end of a punch of chisel with a hammer, and the other end of the punch or chisel is NOT in contact with another surface, then the tool just moves through air. If I place the tool tip on a hard surface, and then hit it, I now have compression forces working on the tool. At that time, something HAS to give. Either the surface you are working on (In the case of the striker, this would be the firing pin, and then the primer) has to give, or the tool gives. Often both, resulting in mushrooming of a tool head. So, how is this less damaging?:confused:

Doc, when you fire a round the blow to the striker is cushioned by striking the relatively soft primer. When you dry fire a gun the striker is slamming into the hardened face of the slide. If you continually do that over time the striker becomes work hardened. That causes the part to become brittle. I don't dry fire my Kahr pistols without a snap cap in the chamber, except when I'm disassembling my guns for cleaning. You are free to treat your guns in any manner that you choose. I never tell anyone what to do, but I also don't make suggestions without a good reason.

[Alfonse]

Please don't think that I'm being at all critical of what you are doing. I don't have any problem with someone building a better mouse trap. All that I'm saying is that I believe Kahr's design to be sound, but that the heat treating process at times is suspect. I don't believe that adding a little material where it can improve reliability is a bad thing even if it slows lock time by a few micro seconds or requires a stronger striker spring. I wouldn't hesitate to use your aftermarket parts should the stock parts fail.

Muggsy, material was added where it helps. It was also removed in the spacer and in the striker so mass is the same. BTW, the energy put in the primer all comes from the spring. 1/2 ×K (spring constant)×distance squared. The distance is the spring deflection. Mass is not part of that equation.

Regardless, lock times and primer deformation are not effected, other than eliminating light strikes from the striker hitting the top round in the mag.

Steel is always a crystalline structure. That is an outdated explanation for fatigue failure.

[muggsy]

Muggsy, material was added where it helps. It was also removed in the spacer and in striker so mass is the same. BTW, the energy put in the primer all comes from the spring. 1/2 ×K (spring constant)×distance squared. The distance is the spring deflection. Mass is not part of that equation.

Regardless, lock times and primer deformation are not effected, other than eliminating light strikes from the striker hitting the top round in the mag.

Steel is always a crystalline structure. That is an outdated explanation for fatigue failure.

I guess that I'm just one of those out dated guys. Most of my information came from a guy who was even more outdated than I am, my old man, but I will say this, I've never had a strike or firing pin break by using snap caps and neither did he. Between the two of us that constitutes over 100 years of shooting.

[Bobshouse]

Between the two of us that constitutes over 100 years of shooting.

Quit being so modest, everyone knows your dad didn't shoot, if he did, that first number would be a 2.

[Alfonse]

I guess that I'm just one of those out dated guys. Most of my information came from a guy who was even more outdated than I am, my old man, but I will say this, I've never had a strike or firing pin break by using snap caps and neither did he. Between the two of us that constitutes over 100 years of shooting.

You are right on about using snap caps. They cushion the shock and greatly reduce the stress on the part.

My father and I are both engineers. He was taught that metal fatigue was caused by "crystallization" of the metal. Steel, depending on its state and alloy, is usually either body-centered cubic crystalline structure or face-centered cubic. Turns out, it doesn't really change with repeated loading. Things like shot-peening can improve the fatigue resistance of a part, but the crystallization theory can't really explain shot peening's effect.

Just because the taught theory is not in vogue doesn't mean the practical side of things isn't correct. In either theory, if the part is breaking prematurely, the fix is to strengthen the part.

By the time I was in engineering school, growth of "micro-cracks" were used to explain fatigue failure. Since I am probably well past my "best if used by date," I'm not sure how they theorize it works now. But, the theory to achieve fatigue safe, or theoretical infinite life, design strength was that the part had to be stressed lightly enough that the surface cracks in the structure didn't grow.

It is a discussion my father and I have had a couple of times. Neither of us claims to be up to date on the latest material science theories. But, I still get by pretty well. I guess my geek side just came out about the crystallization thing.

[muggsy]

Quit being so modest, everyone knows your dad didn't shoot, if he did, that first number would be a 2.

Right here, Bob and I really mean it. Dirt does have very little on me in the way of age. :)

[topgun1953]

Just saw this thread. Got my p380 back yesterday after its 4th striker replacement. I was just going to replace it, but Jay really thought I should send it in, so I did. Well, I guess this is good...along with the new striker, I got a new barrel, slide, and springs! They did send a note warning me about the thing that happens when you dry fire and then attempt to load a round. Usually the striker is still protruding through the breech and the casing slams into the striker before it is retracted. I'm aware of the problem and usually avoid it but admittedly it happened a few times. They seem to think this is a possible cause for breakage. What do you guys think? Oh, so i want a new one too!

[Alfonse]

I do not know all the failure modes. Some of the failures look like the types of failures that are caused by repeated stresses from the photos. Loading the pistol with the striker pin exposed could exacerbate the problem. If that broke the striker, it would happen right at the time. But, I like to make everything as use and abuse proof as possible. You shouldn't have to worry about doing things with some special procedure to keep you gun from breaking. I believe you will find our aftermarket part will do that.

[NacsMXer]

How does this striker affect the quality/feel of the trigger pull? Does it feel the same or better? My P380 already has a buttery smooth trigger and i'd prefer not to negatively affect that. Thanks!

[Alfonse]

How does this striker affect the quality/feel of the trigger pull? Does it feel the same or better? My P380 already has a buttery smooth trigger and i'd prefer not to negatively affect that. Thanks!

It is the same as a factory part as far as trigger function.

[muggsy]

Just saw this thread. Got my p380 back yesterday after its 4th striker replacement. I was just going to replace it, but Jay really thought I should send it in, so I did. Well, I guess this is good...along with the new striker, I got a new barrel, slide, and springs! They did send a note warning me about the thing that happens when you dry fire and then attempt to load a round. Usually the striker is still protruding through the breech and the casing slams into the striker before it is retracted. I'm aware of the problem and usually avoid it but admittedly it happened a few times. They seem to think this is a possible cause for breakage. What do you guys think? Oh, so i want a new one too!

Jay is wrong on that one. If you dry fire the gun and then load the gun the striker is captured when the slide is returned to battery. The striker is preloaded in all Kahr
pistols. See illustration.

http://www.kahr.com/kahr-unique-design.asp

[Frequent Flyer]

Jay is wrong on that one. If you dry fire the gun and then load the gun the striker is captured when the slide is returned to battery. The striker is preloaded in all Kahr
pistols. See illustration.

http://www.kahr.com/kahr-unique-design.asp
I had to go get mine to figure out what they were talking about. If I dry fire it and then rack the slide back the striker is sticking out the whole way back. Letting the slide close I saw the striker go in at 2/3 to 3/4 closed.

[Alfonse]

I had to go get mine to figure out what they were talking about. If I dry fire it and then rack the slide back the striker is sticking out the whole way back. Letting the slide close I saw the striker go in at 2/3 to 3/4 closed.

Yes, so if you had dry fired it, so the striker is sticking out, and tried to rack in a round from the top of the magazine, the round would contact the striker. It would likely either mis-feed or push in the striker. I have to wonder, since the round is only being pushed up by the magazine spring, if that is really contributing to possibly breaking strikers way back behind the breech face. If the end of the firing pin was shearing off, it would seem to make more sense that it may be the issue. But, we don't see that and it would take a wimpy firing pin for that to happen. I think more likely dry firing is a sharper impact to the striker that is causing the failures.

Again, it doesn't really matter in that the fix in either case is a stronger striker solves the problem. Of course, snap caps and avoiding as much dry firing as possible probably helps the striker live longer too.

[Bobshouse]

I'm checking this thread and your site daily....we getting close?

[Alfonse]

Scheduled to arrive while I am at SHOT. Then final inspection. If all goes well, this month.

[topgun1953]

Jay is wrong on that one. If you dry fire the gun and then load the gun the striker is captured when the slide is returned to battery. The striker is preloaded in all Kahr
pistols. See illustration.

http://www.kahr.com/kahr-unique-design.asp

yeah I know but the dimensions on the P380 are such that the case head impacts the striker before it gets retracted. It wasn't Jay, someone included a note when it was returned...

[Alfonse]

The strikers and spacers have shipped. They will arrive next week while I am at Shot.

The week after that, I should have them final inspected and on the market if all is well with the parts. I am excited about these parts.

[Bobshouse]

So am I!!

[gun papa]

Me too. The striker is the cw380's Achilles heel.

[muggsy]

yeah I know but the dimensions on the P380 are such that the case head impacts the striker before it gets retracted. It wasn't Jay, someone included a note when it was returned...

That's what causes what is referred to as primer smear. It isn't what causes the striker to fail. The striker is far harder than the primer.

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[topgun1953]

That's what causes what is referred to as primer smear. It isn't what causes the striker to fail. The striker is far harder than the primer.

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I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. The rim of the casing gets jammed under the protruding striker as it is coming up out of the magazine.

[Bobshouse]

Hey, Alfonse, are you back? He might of ended having to walk home with all the bad weather back East, the Airports are crazy right now.

[Alfonse]

I am back. The parts that were waiting were other parts I had on order. I assumed the shop was shipping things in the same order I ordered them in. No worries, I have parts coming in almost every day this week.

[Chaplain]

I want 2 sets, or maybe 3? $?

[gun papa]

Curious about shipped price? How about it?

[Alfonse]

Curious about shipped price? How about it?

You should know by the end of the week. I should have them on Thursday, probably near the end of the day.

After a mammoth range day preceded by as much dry firing as I can stand, function should be confirmed. That should all occur by Sunday, and maybe Friday if they get here early enough in the day.

[gun papa]

Cool

[Ronni3_J]

Waiting for price :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alfonse]

Waiting for price :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You got it! The followers are ready to ship, and fantastic. Click Here! (https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/)

[Macc]

Order in!Thanks Alfonse!


Any idea when they'll ship?


Thanks

[dsk]

You got it! The strikers are ready to ship, and fantastic. Click Here! (https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/)

Thanks for the effort you put into this. I just placed an order for one and will let everyone know how well it works.

[Alfonse]

Got them shipped for y'all! Thank you.

[Chaplain]

You got it! The followers are ready to ship, and fantastic. Click Here! (https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/)
Order in x 2. Thanks for the great amount of work that must have gone into this project. I really look forward to extensive testing and hearing from everyone else. This is exciting.:D

[z8894]

New Striker installed and a trip to the range. Works great. I had the original striker break at 540 rounds. It's replacement had +1200 rounds on it with no problems. This one should last forever.:)

(http://<a href=&quot;http://s76.photobucket.com/user/keith_sweat1/media/0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/keith_sweat1/0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot; photo 0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg&quot;/></a>)http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/keith_sweat1/0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/keith_sweat1/media/0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg.html)


(http://<a href=&quot;http://s76.photobucket.com/user/keith_sweat1/media/0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/keith_sweat1/0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot; photo 0211162128_resized_zpsoz3bdptt.jpg&quot;/></a>) With one of it's big brothers.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/keith_sweat1/0214160911b_resized_zpsqdjnvsja.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/keith_sweat1/media/0214160911b_resized_zpsqdjnvsja.jpg.html)

[picrthis]

@z8894 What brand holster is that, source? Thanks

[z8894]

It's a Clinger Stingray. Works well for appendix carry.

https://clingerholsters.com/product/stingray-strong-side-clinger-holster/

[picrthis]

It's a Clinger Stingray. Works well for appendix carry.

https://clingerholsters.com/product/stingray-strong-side-clinger-holster/
Thanks, can't believe it will take 5 weeks to get it, maybe I'll just get in from ted cori instead or concealment express who turns the orders next day :)

[dirtengineer]

Took it to the range. I had 3 light strikes in 100 rounds, which was about the same as my stock striker.

The striker didn't solve my issues like I had hoped, but it certainly didn't make it worse.

[picrthis]

Well that's a bummer 😭

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[dsk]

Took it to the range. I had 3 light strikes in 100 rounds, which was about the same as my stock striker.

The striker didn't solve my issues like I had hoped, but it certainly didn't make it worse.

When I tested mine I had a few light strikes as well, which tells me the problem isn't the striker. Most likely the slide isn't completely going into battery, causing a cushion effect when the striker hits the primer of the chambered round. My pistol works perfectly until it gets dirty and is allowed to cool down, then the light strikes happen almost on command. I replaced the recoil springs in mine and will test it out again either tomorrow or sometime next week.

[Alfonse]

The only change on the aftermarket striker that would effect light strikes is the additional clearance the "foot" of the striker has from the round below in the magazine. If your factory striker isn't hitting the round below, it shouldn't alter the way the striker impacts the round in the chamber at all. Well, I guess the exception to that is if your factory striker is broken in two, which would cause no strike at all.

[jeepster54]

I'll be ordering one too. I had one break and your design addresses exactly what I think the problem was.

About how many rounds before these strikers are breaking?

[Mike_usn_ret]

I sold my CW380 months ago, and it was to a neighbor. I had around 600 rds fired, and he has shot well over 2000 rds out of, it and no light strikes or any problems of any kind.

[Linthead]

I sold my CW380 months ago, and it was to a neighbor. I had around 600 rds fired, and he has shot well over 2000 rds out of, it and no light strikes or any problems of any kind.


Which does NOT mean that other people are not having problems.

The original striker in my P380 broke at about 250-300 rounds. The second striker (installed by Kahr) broke at about 150-200 rounds. The third striker (purchased from Kahr and installed by me) only has about 100 rounds.

I love the P380, but can't trust the Kahr strikers, so a Lakeline striker will be installed shortly.

Kahr should deal with the 380 striker problem, but ....

[gb6491]

About how many rounds before these strikers are breaking?
From what I've seen (and remember) in those reports from folks who have had striker failure, there's no foolproof way to tie the failure to a typical number of rounds through the failed guns. That said, there were a few folks that mentioned the 300-400 round range.

FWIW: breakage aside, the Lakeline striker also addresses the possibility of the striker contacting rounds in the magazine.

Regards,
Greg

[Mike_usn_ret]

Which does NOT mean that other people are not having problems.

The original striker in my P380 broke at about 250-300 rounds. The second striker (installed by Kahr) broke at about 150-200 rounds. The third striker (purchased from Kahr and installed by me) only has about 100 rounds.

I love the P380, but can't trust the Kahr strikers, so a Lakeline striker will be installed shortly.

Kahr should deal with the 380 striker problem, but ....

My post was just for info that MY CW380 did not have the problem and has not for the new owner. Did you miss something or did I misunderstand dirtengineer and dsk saying after installing the new Lakeland striker they still had a problem? So install what ever you want, hope it solves your problem.

[dustnchips]

As someone stated earlier, the slide is probably not going completely into battery. Check it out after a misfire. Solve that problem and I doubt you will have misfires.

[Linthead]

My post was just for info that MY CW380 did not have the problem and has not for the new owner. Did you miss something or did I misunderstand dirtengineer and dsk saying after installing the new Lakeland striker they still had a problem? So install what ever you want, hope it solves your problem.


Noted that the CW380 that you sold did not / does not have any striker problems of any kind. Again, that does NOT mean that others have not had problems.

I specifically addressed broken Kahr 380 strikers. Again, it is an ongoing problem that Kahr should deal with, but has not.

Do you have any information relating to broken Lakeline strikers for Kahr 380's or is that strictly a Kahr 380 striker issue?

[Bawanna]

Deeps breaths in with the good, out with the bad, in with the good, out with the bad. Don't make me come down there and separate you two.

It's just a 380?

[Linthead]

It's just a difference of perspective; some recognize that there is an ongoing problem with broken Kahr 380 strikers and some chose to think otherwise.

Based on personal experience and the posts of more than a few forum members, I see an ongoing problem with broken Kahr 380 strikers that Kahr has not addressed.

The first step in correcting a problem is recognizing that it exists.

JMO, YMMV.

[Mike_usn_ret]

Deeps breaths in with the good, out with the bad, in with the good, out with the bad. Don't make me come down there and separate you two.

It's just a 380?

No need, further responses are of no use.