Kahr Quality going downhill ?

[jg rider]

Hello all,
As I've written many times, my wife and I have 4 Kahrs, 2 K9 Elites from the 1998 era and 2 PM9 from the early 2 thousand. Version 1 and version 2. We cc carry any 2 of these pieces just about daily. In the many, many thousand of rnds. fired thru them they've never failed and the barrels look pristine, even after shooting lead thru them.

Now here's the problem: My son has 2 newer version PM9s. He comes up to our place just about every Sunday and practices with either one of them, along with us and our Kahrs. We noticed the both his barrel chambers are peeling. It's not crud but real chrome peeling. He's shooting the same loads as we use and our barrels are perfect.

:mad:So he called Kahr service and got a bunch of run arounds. e.g. "Well since it's happening to both of your barrels it's normal." "When was the last time you changed your recoil springs ?" "Send in the complete pistols, not just the barrels and we'll take a look at them"

No examples about our pistols not having any issues with many more rnds. thru them, then his, or shooting the same loads would change the techs mind about this must be normal.
My son is as gun savvy as I am and the weak excuses offered by the Kahr tech doesn't fly.
Is anyone out there also having issues with their barrels or piss poor customer service excuses. I won't be recommending Kahrs to anyone anymore.

[CJB]

1. Its not chrome its nickel
2. There was a problem some years ago, bad nickel plate
3. Coule be a recurrance.... no wide reports of it right now
4. His CLEANING practices may be part of the problem. Any solvent carrying ammoina compounds (many of them) will seep through the pores in the nickel, and degrade the copper bonding layer. Once that starts to go south, the nickel will begin to peel. Its customary to dry a nickel plated surface, when using things like... Hoppes, Shooter's Choice, Marksman's Choice, Outers, etc etc etc.

Its not the end of the world. The pistols will function fine, and the nickel is for the outside, not the inside of the barrel.... but... Kahr should make it right.

[qmdv]

Just got my PM9 today. Put 50 through it and love it. But is has no chrome to peel.

Tim

[jg rider]

1. Its not chrome its nickel
2. There was a problem some years ago, bad nickel plate
3. Coule be a recurrance.... no wide reports of it right now
4. His CLEANING practices may be part of the problem. Any solvent carrying ammoina compounds (many of them) will seep through the pores in the nickel, and degrade the copper bonding layer. Once that starts to go south, the nickel will begin to peel. Its customary to dry a nickel plated surface, when using things like... Hoppes, Shooter's Choice, Marksman's Choice, Outers, etc etc etc.

Its not the end of the world. The pistols will function fine, and the nickel is for the outside, not the inside of the barrel.... but... Kahr should make it right.

The peeling is in the chamber

[CJB]

You already mentioned that. Was there some further point to be made?

[Bobshouse]

Call Kahr. If you get the idiot at the desk who tells you every part you need is restricted, we need the entire gun, your gonna have to special order that, or any other idiotic answer ask to speak to his supervisor. You will probably have to leave a message, but leave your number and he will call back and take care of all your needs.

I think the guy who works the service desk is paid to block instead of help.

[muggsy]

I think the guy who works the service desk is paid to block instead of help.

I seriously doubt that Justin Moon would support that premise, but he should be made aware of how his employees are responding to his customers.

[CJB]

Maybe they consider plating in the chamber a bit of a wear item? I mean... there's plating in the bore too, at least when its new. I'm sure that goes away pretty quickly with firing.

My older (and now stolen) PM9j had the nickel coming off on the feed ramp. I really can't say it bothered anything as far as function goes. I suspect in the chamber is the same way.

From the Kahr Warranty:

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT APPLY TO NORMAL WEAR OF ANY PARTS, INCLUDING METAL, WOOD, PLASTIC, RUBBER AND OTHER MATERIAL’S SURFACE FINISH

Maybe they consider that "surface finish"?

[Scarywoody]

Maybe if you took some pictures it would be helpful here. I'm certainly curious. I know that Kahr is in the process of moving their production to Pennsylvania. Right now they are out of Massachusetts and Minnesota. Maybe they have some disgruntled employees that just don't care. I've never encountered a peeling issue in any of my guns, including my sons Taurus and Hi Point POS pistols.

[jg rider]

Maybe they consider plating in the chamber a bit of a wear item? I mean... there's plating in the bore too, at least when its new. I'm sure that goes away pretty quickly with firing.

My older (and now stolen) PM9j had the nickel coming off on the feed ramp. I really can't say it bothered anything as far as function goes. I suspect in the chamber is the same way.

From the Kahr Warranty:

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT APPLY TO NORMAL WEAR OF ANY PARTS, INCLUDING METAL, WOOD, PLASTIC, RUBBER AND OTHER MATERIAL’S SURFACE FINISH

Maybe they consider that "surface finish"?



I can see two issues occurring
As the peeling increases in the chamber there can be extraction problems
If the peeling moves in to the polygonal rifling it could possibly act as obstructions causing excessive pressures.

With my wife's and mine 4 older Kahrs there hasn't been any indications of peeling. We shoot 100 rnds. each, usually 3x a week of my 124grn. cast lead bullets with a jacketed last round in every other mag. I don't clean them very often, but when I do I use a combination of a lead removing solvent and aggressive Lewis lead remover patches.
My opinion is that the last great customer service was when there was someone named Stephon (sp.) running the repair dept and Randy. and a very nice lady who's name I've forgotten and who's been retired was running the customer service calls.

Does anyone remember her name ?

As far as plating going away, IMHO this shouldn't be. Why bother applying it. Colt would have had big problems with their chrome lined barrels in their M16s & AR15s in the later part of the Nam. war, and in their commercial versions. I don't know which is harder nickle or chrome.

I found this thread

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?232-about-plating-coming-off-feed-ramp-and-chamber-on-PM9


.

[CJB]

Lemme getcha a longer shovel. You are diggin quite deep with those two scenarios!



The only issue is the irreparable damage to the psyche.


The nickel is there primarily as a way to prevent galling between the barrel and slide, and in a secondary degree for the prevention of corrosion (more like a bonus feature).

It is not there to ease extraction. Its presence in the bore, and chamber, are due to the fact that the entire barrel is plated. The plating adds insignificant functional physical dimension. Its longevity in the bore is certainly not lengthy, but... you usually cant spot that, because its ironed out as it degrades (by the projectile). Nickel while possessing a natural lubricity, is also fairly soft (hence its ease of being polished).

Grab a small felt wheel, stick it on your Dremel with some Tripoli compound, and your "issues" will be mitigated or eliminated.

I agree it looks nasty, but its looks, not function.

[jg rider]

Lemme getcha a longer shovel. You are diggin quite deep with those two scenarios!



The only issue is the irreparable damage to the psyche.

I'm just stating the facts. If this disturbs you so be it.

[Longitude Zero]

If the weapon functions normally WHAT IS THE ISSUE? As previously posted wear and tear are not covered. Just because it looks ugly does not make Kahr responsible to make anything right as NOTHING is wrong.

[jg rider]

If the weapon functions normally WHAT IS THE ISSUE? As previously posted wear and tear are not covered. Just because it looks ugly does not make Kahr responsible to make anything right as NOTHING is wrong.

As a competitive shooter and retired pistol smith, I suppose I have higher standards then others that are much less experienced with firearms.

End of discussion

[CJB]

It's not crud but real chrome peeling

CJB, take your meds man. we're all long time members in this conversation and no need to go for the throat.

[Bawanna]

"My opinion is that the last great customer service was when there was someone named Stephon (sp.) running the repair dept and Randy. and a very nice lady who's name I've forgotten and who's been retired was running the customer service calls.

Does anyone remember her name ?"

I thought I had her name and email but I just went through and couldn't find it. I'm sure it was the same lady. Very nice and always helpful.

Jocko I'm sure remembers her, he's mentioned her a few times. She was a class act.

I for one am displeased with the tone of this thread for what tiny bit that might be worth.

I'd probably try to get the barrels replaced myself. Apparently there's room for improvement in the coating process. I doubt it will effect function but still unsightly and if it said bawanna on the side instead of Kahr I'd want it right.

[CPTKILLER]

Contact Kahr!

[Longitude Zero]

I suppose I have higher standards then others that are much less experienced with firearms.

End of discussion Puhleeze.

I too am a competitive shooter with over 50 years of experience with ALL types of firearms. Being a seasoned and mature shooter looks DO NOT bother me. As long as the firearm functions as it should I am satisfied. Those that are offended by appearance are worrisome shooters at best.

End of Educational Rant!

[muggsy]

There is absolutely not going to be extraction or pressure problems because of peeling nickle plating. Electroless nickle plating thickness only runs from .0001 to .005". The barrel can be stripped of nickle plating and replated without any damage what-so-ever to the stainless steel barrel. You are worrying about something that you need not worry about. It's purely a cosmetic issue. It isn't a defect in material or workmanship. It's classified as normal wear.

[Scarywoody]

"Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel plated pistol."

[jg rider]

"Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel plated pistol."

LOL ! Check out my album and see a custom Glock I did for my wife

[Bawanna]

I think a few people here need a nap, I want one but I don't need one. Just sayin.

[dirtengineer]

The plating on the extractor of my cw380 failed immediately and peeled off. I listed it amongst the deficiencies when it went back for warranty work. Kahr failed to replace it.

[jg rider]

I think a few people here need a nap, I want one but I don't need one. Just sayin.

Bawanna,
Thanks for trying to tone the bashing down. I find it interesting how my original question about a customer service experience and a flaw experience turned into what it did. I found I had to defend myself because my expectation of quality wasn't agreeable to some here.
I didn't ask how to proceed with the problem I asked what other experiences were with it and dealing with Kahr. And up jumped the usual people with the off point, unhelpful and snide comments that I've seen in the past.

[Bawanna]

They are usually ok after a nap and proper medication.

[Redstate]

By the way, Bawanna, her name was Dottie.

[Bawanna]

That's her! You get the gold star for today.

[jg rider]

By the way, Bawanna, her name was Dottie.

Yes it was, thanx. She was great to work with

[Redstate]

I found Dottie to be an excellent example of what customer service should be.

[jg rider]

And I also remember the then service manager named Stephon (sp?) was another great person to deal with. I'm going back into the early 2000s

[muggsy]

A wise man once told me that you shouldn't air problems publicly. Your friends don't want to hear about them and your enemies enjoy them. If you are having a problem with Kahr Service or the quality of their products we can't help you. You need to talk to Kahr.

[jg rider]

A wise man once told me that you shouldn't air problems publicly. Your friends don't want to hear about them and your enemies enjoy them. If you are having a problem with Kahr Service or the quality of their products we can't help you. You need to talk to Kahr.

It seems most everyone that responds to a long thread doesn't bother reading the originating post. People just like jumping on the band wagon without knowing the particulars. No where did I ask for help from any member or Kahr Talk.

What I wrote was about an issue with a barrel and poor customer service. And I asked if anyone else had the same experience or the same issues.
I didn't ask for advice or help, but that didn't stop people from telling what I should or should not do. Or how stupid I was ( thanks again Bawanna )

It seemed the subject was put to bed about four or five posts ago, but here you come along to dig it up again, apparently without knowing what was first written

I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions.
A little FYI, I've been customizing pistols for over 50 yrs. and I would never except a poor quality product like Kahr is from it's vendors.

[Bobshouse]

That's the problem here, people just want to go overboard and offer to much help or advice. They like to take a question and wring it until its dry, then type up a thesis on the cause and cure of the situation or problem. All this help at such a great price. The real problem is we don't have the educational level. skills or abilities to understand or comprehend these writings. That is why they are posted here, in hopes readers from the future will find them and technology will be advanced enough that they will be able to render aid.

So post your questions, sit back, relax, and enjoy.

[Bawanna]

Must be a damn full moon or something.

JG, glad you didn't ask for any help, you sure didn't get any here.

I'd certainly inquire as to a replacement weather it's cosmetic or not. Like everything else these days we can't let quality get left behind.
Pretty much living in an age of junk due to low standards.

I'm closing this one, I don't forsee anything positive or uplifting in the future.

Thanks for stopping by and don't run off. Tomorrows another day.