Getting ready to call Kahr re: P40 frame rail cracking

[Darchangel]

I bought my two-tone Kahr P40 in the late 90s and haven't had but four to five hundred rounds through it. It mostly was for CCW and not 'plinking' so I only put enough rounds through it to make sure I was sufficiently confident should I really need it. Today, I went to clean it after going to the range since it had not seemed to be cycling well and found that the frame rail was coming apart. I searched and found several other images of this happening on other Kahr pistols. I know that the Glock has a metal piece on its frame rail but the metal pieces in the Kahr frame seem to be there for rigidity since they do not come anywhere near the frame as some have suggested.

I will admit that although I am the first owner, I bought it a gun show and I kind of treated registering a gun with the manufacturer like most any other appliance or tool (how many people really do that?) figuring I would send it to them and they would know it was there own product and would even know when (approximately) it was probably sold so why did I need to register it? Of course, this all comes back to bite me in the butt as I am faced with hoping that Kahr will treat this as a warranty repair even though I never registered it. I have heard some horror stories about the same but it should be very clear from the gun that there has been minimal wear for guide rail to have failed, especially for a piece that spent so much of its life sitting in a climate controlled safe.

If Kahr wants an arm and a leg to fix it, I have have a mind to just super glue it back together (heck, if its out of warranty, why not?) but I don't like the idea of a jerry-rigged firearm, even if it is just the frame rail. I suspect that the superglue would make that portion of the guide rail as strong or stronger than the rest of it since super glue works well on plastics/polymers. Not really sure what to do but hoping the folks at Kahr will give me reason to praise their service.

[Bawanna]

Can you post a picture of what's going on. The rails are only exposed a little bit but are actually one piece imbedded in the polymer.
They really don't come apart.

The polymer part of the rails will occasionally show chew marks or get a burr etc but not the metal.

Curious to see just what your talking about.

[hardluk1]

The metal pieces in a kahr frame ARE the frame rails not the polymer looking rails . Can you find those other photos to post showing the cracking if you can't photo yours so we can see what your concerned with .

Your pistols older but what do you think is the round count thru it ?

Parts circled in yellow are the rails . Parts circled in red are to aid assembly . Area in red will shave off some polymer when round count is low but tend to stop early one .

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mdaf2c39cb990f5f01d89175dc733fcaco0&w=252&h=188&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.1

[Scarywoody]

I bought a well used Gen 2 Glock 19. It was made in 1989. One day at the range I chipped the magazine well. Glock is a few miles from the homestead so I headed over. I was fully prepared (check in hand) to buy a new frame. They looked at it, told me it was under warranty and upgraded it to a Gen 3 frame for free. I would hope Kahr would treat their products similarly.

[muggsy]

If the gun is under warranty Kahr will replace the frame. The frame is the serialized part so a NICS check will be required and the gun will have to be returned to you through your local FFL. Kahr Arms is not responsible for shipping charges, but they may send you a prepaid mailing label if you request one. If not, the least expensive legal way to return the gun to Kahr is through your local FFL. Your best bet is to contact Kahr service and explain the problem to them and ask them how you should proceed.

[Darchangel]

Here is a picture of the splitting. This is the portion of the gun where the slide actually touches, so maybe I should call it a slide rail rather than a frame rail? The metal rails in the lower portion of the frame appear to be for rigidity since they don't come anywhere near touching the slide.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w366/RedWiels/P40/Cracked%20frame%20rail_zpsp9q9iso2.jpg

[Darchangel]

If the gun is under warranty Kahr will replace the frame. The frame is the serialized part so a NICS check will be required and the gun will have to be returned to you through your local FFL. Kahr Arms is not responsible for shipping charges, but they may send you a prepaid mailing label if you request one. If not, the least expensive legal way to return the gun to Kahr is through your local FFL. Your best bet is to contact Kahr service and explain the problem to them and ask them how you should proceed.

I really hope you are wrong on several accounts...

1 - According to the Kahr website, the full warranty on a new Kahr is only 5 years, but the Kahr service representative who told "Breakage like you describe which is not caused by misuse or customer neglect, etc. and seems to have happened as no fault of yours would be covered as warranty." even though I bought the gun closer to 15 years ago. He then went on to say "If you damaged the frame by misuse or improper use, etc., Then the fee would be $65.00 labor plus $250.00 for the frame and the cost of whatever other parts need to be replaced."

2 - My understanding according to FedEx is that I can send a firearm back to the manufacturer by dropping it off with FedEx Overnight (not USPS nor FedEx Ground and not shipping internationally). I have done this in the past with other firearms and received the repaired firearm via courier in the same way at my home. A NICS check should not be required. After contacting Kahr, they asked me to fill out an RA (Return Authorization) request which I did at which point I was sent a pre-printed FedEx label to return it to them. I don't live in California or New Jersey where they might have some crazy regulations about sending/receiving firearms but I did notice that there are clear restrictions against it going through the Post Office or through FedEx Ground -- it had to be express delivery. I didn't have to pay to ship it to them, but it remains to be seen how much I need to pay to get it back. I would have expected some gun shops to charge me for doing the paperwork if a NICS check is required, but it should be no different than going to a gunsmith who (at least in my state) do not require a NICS check to give you back a gun you brought to them for repair.

[muggsy]

That isn't the slide rail. That polymer rail is only an aid for reassembly. Both the front and rear frame rails are made of steel, not polymer. Your best bet is to contact Kahr service and send the pictures to them. The cracked polymer rail shouldn't effect the function of the gun in the least.

[Darchangel]

The metal pieces in a kahr frame ARE the frame rails not the polymer looking rails . Can you find those other photos to post showing the cracking if you can't photo yours so we can see what your concerned with .

Your pistols older but what do you think is the round count thru it ?

Parts circled in yellow are the rails . Parts circled in red are to aid assembly . Area in red will shave off some polymer when round count is low but tend to stop early one .

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mdaf2c39cb990f5f01d89175dc733fcaco0&w=252&h=188&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.1


It was one of those parts in red (look at the picture I just posted now), but look under your slide when you put it on the frame and you will see it comes nowhere near those longer metal inserts in the lower section of the frame. They seem to provide rigidity but they come nowhere near the slide or any moving part from what I can see. The plastic part which is splitting seems to help keep the slide in position and it would seem to be able to come away from the lower portion further on one side if that part is missing. I have seen others claim those long metal inserts are frame rails as well so I might be missing something but I don't see how they contact any part of the slide. Maybe it is just semantics but I am talking about the part of the frame the slide actually touches.

[Bawanna]

The reason for the NICS check is the "New Frame". That is the serialized part. Kahr is not required to do so but their policy is to record that new frame serial like a new gun. So if they replace the frame and I'm sure the will, it will get delivered to your local FFL of choice.
If they consider it warranty it shouldn't cost you for the return shipping, however you will probably have to pay for the NICS check again.

I've heard of them replacing stuff in situations like this even beyond the warranty, I hope they do so in your case as well but it's their decision. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

A firearms dealer can always ship firearms much cheaper than an individual. Since Kahr sent the label you golden anyhow. So no worries.

[CJB]

I'm sure Kahr will be more than willing to replace that frame under warranty

[knkali]

I tend to agree with CJB. BTW I think the term is Jury-rigged not jerry-rigged. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/132868/jury-rigged-or-jerry-rigged

[Darchangel]

The reason for the NICS check is the "New Frame". That is the serialized part. Kahr is not required to do so but their policy is to record that new frame serial like a new gun. So if they replace the frame and I'm sure the will, it will get delivered to your local FFL of choice. If they consider it warranty it shouldn't cost you for the return shipping, however you will probably have to pay for the NICS check again.

Thanks... I had not fully thought through the whole 'new serial number' aspect... Now I wonder what a NICS check costs.

[Bawanna]

In my part of the country it's usually around 30 bucks. If you frequent a dealer regularly they will usually cut you some slack.

Most give military and LE a break too.

[Darchangel]

I tend to agree with CJB. BTW I think the term is Jury-rigged not jerry-rigged. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/132868/jury-rigged-or-jerry-rigged

That is fascinating stuff actually. I never heard it pronounced jury-rigged but hey -- at least "jerry-rigged" is in the dictionary. It likely got there like other slang that became colloquially used even if not entirely appropriate and certainly not the Queen's English. Thanks for the reference.

[Bawanna]

Colloquially? By gawd Woodrow, I'm a gonna have to look that one up. Thank goodness for penicillin I reckon.

I'll get back to ya.

[hardluk1]

Can you post a quality photo of your issues ?? It will help us to understand the problem and kahr too .

Kahr pistol shaving plastic rails when round count is low is nothing new but and stop soon . A split plastic assembly rails would be different .
Pistols from the later '90s so can you guess at the round fired thru this pistol .


If the serial number has to be changed most makers will reimburse the owners .

[muggsy]

You will also receive a letter from Kahr explaining the disposition of the original frame and you are supposed to retain that letter as long as you own the gun.

[CJB]

I never got any such letter!

[Scarywoody]

Certain states require the letter due to gun registration by serial number. Many states Georgia, Florida, etc. don't register. No paperwork. By the way, the Obama gun law proposal would have to use gun registration in order to work. They don't tell you that.

[Darchangel]

I think I finally figured out how this works... here is the pic:

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w366/RedWiels/P40/Cracked%20frame%20rail_zpsp9q9iso2.jpg

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm glad my state doesn't require gun registration yet (unless you count one city in the state where I would never willingly choose to live which has an illegal law (is that an oxymoron?) on the books requiring it, but most people ignore it)

[medbill]

So how have you made out with your pistol?

[muggsy]

I never got any such letter!

I received a letter and was told to retain it as long as I owned the gun. It was my understanding that it was a NICS requirement. Maybe the rules have changed.

[CJB]

No, I think KAHR's lawyers changed, as there is NO requirement for any NCIS check on a replacement frame, right there in the GCA68, which is STILL the prevailing law of the land.

Ruger has replaced for me, no NCIS.
KEL-Tek has replaced for for folks (on their forum) only a letter of explanation, no NCIS
HK has replaced for me, no NCIS

and.. by NCIS, I mean form 4473, FFL, background check... whole 9 yards. It is not required by law, and is in fact EXEMPTED by law. However, it does require paperwork for the folks doing the replacing - not much, just records keeping. No filing or such. So... some would rather handle it like a new gun, rather than a replacement. Serial number as nothing to do with it. Serials cannot be duplicated. Period. If so, they add a letter, or -2 or something like that to the serial.

[Bobshouse]

Here in California if you get a new serial number you are required to submit and wait another 10 days before you can pick it up. What really hurts is the 25.00 fee to the state.