Our Favorite President

[muggsy]

So our favorite president finally came out with his gun safety executive action. Now if you sell more than two guns per year you have to have an FFL. I think that every one of us should apply immediately for an FFL and bury the BATF in paper work. As I understand it the only way to overturn this executive action is for some poor soul to be arrested under this new "law" and to challenge it's constitutionality in the courts. We had all better be sure that we are doing everything possible to see that our next president is a true conservative. He could rescind Obama's action with a wave of his hand. The most unfortunate aspect of Obama's action is that it will do nothing to reduce gun deaths and it could in fact put innocent lives in danger.

[skiflydive]

Personally I'm one of those who thinks his crap won't do anything to reduce "gun crime." IMHO a much more effective way to handle this would be to have both parties in a "casual" sale go to an FFL or a county sheriff's office to get the NICS check done. It might cost $25-30 but then neither of those parties would need to be FFL's. I read through the FFL application a few weeks ago. It's effin ridiculous.

[Scarywoody]

I have a C&R FFL. I use it for discounts at Brownell's. $30 for three years. They send me all their paperwork which I archive at the local dump.

[Bawanna]

All transfers in Washington now require a trip to the local dealer for transfer. It's ridiculous and again not enforceable.
At the gunshow they have several tables set up so private sales can be transferred. There is no gun show loop hole in Washington.

Bad things happen in Chicago every day, sniff, sniff, can't wait till he gets back and can play too.

[marshal kane]

The only people affected by gun laws are the lawful. Criminals think they're great for business. 2017 can't come fast enough to suit me. The middle East is close to breaking out in war, Iran is a breath away from building a nuclear weapon, the North Koreans are testing ICBMs, ISIS is here, people are rioting over police shootings, Al Qada is back in Afghanistan, all while our Emperor is busy writing Executive Orders on gun control? Hey, the world is on fire! Somebody give the Emperor a fiddle!

[Hawkeye]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon1.png Our Favorite President


So our favorite president finally came out with his gun safety executive action. Now if you sell more than two guns per year you have to have an FFL. I think that every one of us should apply immediately for an FFL and bury the BATF in paper work. As I understand it the only way to overturn this executive action is for some poor soul to be arrested under this new "law" and to challenge it's constitutionality in the courts. We had all better be sure that we are doing everything possible to see that our next president is a true conservative. He could rescind Obama's action with a wave of his hand. The most unfortunate aspect of Obama's action is that it will do nothing to reduce gun deaths and it could in fact put innocent lives in danger.


===========

I think we need to be very careful making statements like this. Obama has more than enough help from the left-wing mainstream media who are in the tank for him. We don't need to be helping him out.

Following is the assessment of this Executive Order by the President of the Virginia Citizens' Defense League. I will put his knowledge of gun legislation up against anybody in the Country.

"2. There is no specific threshold on the number of guns sold, as to what makes you a dealer. That has always been true. The BATFE takes into consideration several factors in determining if you are just a person selling a few items from your private collection or if you are trying to earn a living, or part of a living, by buying and selling guns. Here Obama tries to scare gun owners by saying that someone had been found to be in the business of selling firearms “when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, WHEN OTHER FACTORS ALSO WERE PRESENT” (emphasis mine). Here he’s obviously found some obscure cases that must have had some unusual “other factors” that made it clear the person was actually selling guns for a living, even with a small number of sales. This EO is implying that BATFE might be looking harder at people who sell guns regularly to make sure they are not really “in the business.” Other than trying to scare people by also pointing out the penalties for being in the business without a license, I don’t see this as changing the status quo on private sales at all. Net effect: zero, but meant to intimidate people into not doing any private sales."

I most certainly agree on this action not affecting gun deaths and the importance of the next President being a conservative, however.

[getsome]

The dirty little gun violence truth that the President nor the mainstream media want to talk about is that black males between 16 and 30 years of age make up less than 17% of the total U.S. population but account for well over half of all the murders that are committed.....If the Pretender in Chief really wanted to do something about gun violence he would issue Executive Orders that if you use a gun in the commission of a crime you get a mandatory life sentence with no parole in Federal prison and if you are under age and get caught with a gun you get 20 years PERIOD no plea bargain or early release, just the slammer pal....

If there isn't enough room for them in existing prisons then damn it, build some more.....The only way to stop gun violence is to go after the criminals that are doing the killing and lock them away forever and throw away the key......

[muggsy]

I think we need to be very careful making statements like this.

Why is that, Hawkeye? Is the president considering an AE against free speech, too? Do you think that if we stop speaking out that the left will back off on gun control or confiscation? Think again.

[Hawkeye]

Why is that, Hawkeye? Is the president considering an AE against free speech, too? Do you think that if we stop speaking out that the left will back off on gun control or confiscation? Think again.


Of course I don't think that. Muggsy, I hate to say this, but you sound like Obama. You're trying to create an evil straw man by making up stuff that was never said.

When we speak out we ought to have our facts straight and not be hurting our own cause.

Spreading inaccurate information that makes gun owners believe there are restrictions that don't exist can have almost the same effect as if they did exist. This is especially true from someone like yourself who is believed by some to be a credible source.

Sorry if you took my comment personally. It needed saying and the fact that your feelings are apparently hurt doesn't make it any less valid.

By all means go ahead and flame me now because this is the last I am going to say on the matter.

[muggsy]

If I can locate the quote from his speech I'll cite it for you. Requiring anyone selling more than two guns per year to get an FFL was something that he was considering. Obtaining an FFL can take as long as a year and an FFL to buy and sell guns cost $200 dollars. I'm not in the habit of making things up unless they include the names Jocko, Bawanna, or concern my wife's cat. And if I do make something up it's for comic relief followed by a smile. I seldom joke about my 2A rights.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/foghorn/obamas-executive-action-on-guns-my-prediction/

[muggsy]

(See the next to the last line.)

The White House has just released a “Fact Sheet” outlining the President’s Executive Actions on guns. Click here (https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our) to read the full document. Minus the blather, here’s what’s in it:


The FBI will hire more than 230 additional examiners and other staff to help process background checks.
The President’s FY2017 budget will include funding for 200 new ATF agents and investigators to help enforce gun laws.
ATF has established an Internet Investigation Center to track illegal online firearms trafficking and is dedicating $4 million and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network.
ATF is finalizing a rule to ensure that dealers who ship firearms notify law enforcement if their guns are lost or stolen in transit.
The Administration is proposing a new $500 million investment to increase access to mental health care.
The Social Security Administration has indicated that it will begin the rulemaking process to include information in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm for mental health reasons.
The Department of Health and Human Services is finalizing a rule to remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information about people prohibited from possessing a gun for specific mental health reasons
The President has directed the Departments of Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology.
The President has directed the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety.
[New regulations will] clarify that it doesn’t matter where you conduct your business—from a store, at gun shows, or over the Internet: If you’re in the business of selling firearms, you must get a license and conduct background checks.
Require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust or corporation.

[TheTman]

No way I want an FFL. It gives the BATF too much leeway to invade your home or place of business. I'll just stick with civil disobedience.
I can hardly bring myself to part with a gun once I own it anyway.

[marshal kane]

Ditto that! Having an FFL used to mean you could deal with few restrictions. It used to mean you could buy and sell for your own needs at dealer cost. Now, it means you need to have a dedicated business location with set public business hours along with all the paperwork that it entails. Your books must be available to BATF on surprise visits. It also means you will need a business license from the city. All that red tape and you have to also run a business and turn a profit. Not for me. I'll continue to buy at the big box stores and keep my sanity.

The city of San Francisco drove the last gun shop there to close by drowning the business in city red tape. As an FFL, you also have to fight the politics.

[JohnR]

I think it was Loretta Lynch that said maybe two was the limit. Unless it's in writing in the form of a law or statute it doesn't matter what she says.

And until we're foolish enough to register our guns, they will have no idea if we sell them privately or not. Just make sure you know who you're selling to, and they're not a snitch or government agent.

[Harrylee]

Tears of a clown, he put onion juice on his finger then rub his eye. Use the laws that ARE in place Now!

[muggsy]

You guys have missed the point of my post entirely. You aren't submitting an application to obtain an FFL although you can if you want one. You are applying for an FFL as a protest against Obama's new law. The purpose of the application is to let the government know that your not a happy camper. Can you imagine how the government would react to receiving a million FFL applications in a week? The BATF would have to process them and the BATF would have little time for anything else. The vast majority of the applications would be rejected. This tactic is called passive resistance. Learn something from the liberal left.

[pbagley]

Speaking of speeches, does anyone know were a gun costs less than a book? I think the LGS is overcharging.

[Barth]

Speaking of speeches, does anyone know were a gun costs less than a book? I think the LGS is overcharging.
Many internet guns don't charge sales tax.
Shipping can and should be USPS.
Cross Creek Guns ships for $5.50.
You have to shop around for FFL transfer fees.
But deals can be found.:)

[Bawanna]

In Washington you pay the tax when you get it from your dealer. The state determined gun transactions are easily trackable. No other out of state on line purchases are taxed since there's no means of tracking.

At first most dealers said they were not tax collectors and did not do so but the state came down hard on a few, some I know personally with audits. The word got out and now there are no exceptions.

That along with 594 where all firearm transactions have to go through a dealer really sucks. Almost like living in California.

Those still really aren't trackable so many are ignoring that new law. Gun Show being the exception. They insist all private sales go through the paperwork but many dealers offer the transfer service cheap or sometimes even free.

[muggsy]

Speaking of speeches, does anyone know were a gun costs less than a book? I think the LGS is overcharging.

Most LGS charge only what they need to charge to make a profit and stay in business. Most of their profit comes from selling ammunition, accessories and gunsmithing services. Brick and mortar stores have to charge more than ether net businesses due to their overhead, but try getting the internet to repair your broken gun. Support your LGS or very shortly you won't have one. I can remember a time when there was a local hardware store on the corner. They were staffed with people who could tell you how to fix things. Try finding that today at your local DIY store.

[yqtszhj]

.... I can remember a time when there was a local hardware store on the corner. They were staffed with people who could tell you how to fix things. Try finding that today at your local DIY store.

A lot of those stores I remember had a gun counter too where I grew up. Like you said all that is at risk now.

[Iggy]

Chew on this a bit.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/01/10/report-obama-wants-to-become-un-secretary-general-netanyahu-doing-everything-he-can-to-stop-him-n2102416

[Bawanna]

I just threw up a lot in my mouth!

[marshal kane]

Even a spineless jellyfish has it's place in society.

[b4uqzme]

Most LGS charge only what they need to charge to make a profit and stay in business. Most of their profit comes from selling ammunition, accessories and gunsmithing services. Brick and mortar stores have to charge more than ether net businesses due to their overhead, but try getting the internet to repair your broken gun. Support your LGS or very shortly you won't have one. I can remember a time when there was a local hardware store on the corner. They were staffed with people who could tell you how to fix things. Try finding that today at your local DIY store.

+1000. I know a few personally and they are not rich men. I've always been able to find a "close" deal by shopping LGS vs. internet once you adjust for taxes, shipping, FFL fees... So I've yet to buy a gun over the web. I'm glad to support my LGS even if it's a bit more $. I want them to stay around.

[muggsy]

+1 I like that thinking.

[berettabone]

+1000. I know a few personally and they are not rich men. I've always been able to find a "close" deal by shopping LGS vs. internet once you adjust for taxes, shipping, FFL fees... So I've yet to buy a gun over the web. I'm glad to support my LGS even if it's a bit more $. I want them to stay around.
Do you mean the M&PC .40 that I eyed up at a local GS, that had a price of $593..........the same to be had on the web for $419??????? Sounds like a lot of profit to me..................

[Bawanna]

It would be if the local guy sold 20 a day. He probably sells 4 or 5 a month.
The internet shops sell hundreds everyday with few employees and a big warehouse. Low maintenance, most have no showroom to pretty up.

Our two local shops struggling to survive have a lot of folks come in and look em over and then buy on the internet.

I try to support them but I too buy on the internet when there a big difference in price.

100 bucks weather profit or not is a lot of money to me.

Now if I had Jocko's money, I wouldn't give it a thought.

[b4uqzme]

Do you mean the M&PC .40 that I eyed up at a local GS, that had a price of $593..........the same to be had on the web for $419??????? Sounds like a lot of profit to me..................

Maybe you just need to shop around better. ;)

[berettabone]

Maybe you just need to shop around better. ;)
Really??????

[b4uqzme]

Yes. Really. Just because one store wants $593 doesn't mean that there isn't another who wants less. And maybe the first store would negotiate? There are higher than $419 listings on the internet too. I just checked. It's just a matter of doing your homework and shopping. My only point is that, with a little effort, I've always been able to find a deal close enough that I could justify supporting my LGS. I'm not sure why you should have a problem with that.

[dirtengineer]

I check with my local shop when I see an online deal to see if they can come close to a match. If they can't, they tell me and they still get the transfer. Never any hard feelings. They usually can't beat the online sales.

[marshal kane]

Armed with a photocopy of Buds ad for a new shotgun, I went to see the gun library manager at my local Cabelas for the same shotgun slightly used. I said, "Can you match Buds price? I will buy your used shotgun because I would rather buy locally." He said, "Can't sell it at that price and you'll have to pay shipping buying from Buds." I said, "Read the ad, it says free shipping," then I added, " and Buds doesn't collect a sales tax." He said, "I still can't meet that price." So I said, "Maybe we can do better the next time." A week later, my FFL calls me to say that my shotgun has arrived. My new shotgun came in the factory packing along with a factory plastic hardcase. So much for buying locally. I support buying locally up to a certain point but when it comes past that point, I support shopping around.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ I'm not sure Cabela's is a good example of buying locally. But I get it. No one wants to overpay. I can give a similar example with different results. I went online to research the best price for a Beretta O/U. Then I check the local LGS's and found 2 who had them in stock. The stock price was a bit higher so I just waited for a sale. The sale price was still a little higher but one of the 2 was willing to discount even deeper and match the online price. The sales tax was a little more than the shipping+FFL fee but close enough.

I also understand that, in some areas, big box stores are the only opportunities to buy locally. There are no little mom-and-pop stores. But that just proves my point. Support them when you can or you will find yourself without many options.

I guess I've beat this horse enough. Thanks for listening.

[berettabone]

Yes. Really. Just because one store wants $593 doesn't mean that there isn't another who wants less. And maybe the first store would negotiate? There are higher than $419 listings on the internet too. I just checked. It's just a matter of doing your homework and shopping. My only point is that, with a little effort, I've always been able to find a deal close enough that I could justify supporting my LGS. I'm not sure why you should have a problem with that.

Well, you know me...............only been shooting for over 40 years, and I'm too ignorant to realize that there are other stores. My point being, there isn't a store within 500 miles of me, that can sell a firearm any cheaper than the net. Most of the time, even with associated fees, I can still get the firearm cheaper on the net. Averages around $100, sometimes double that. If you choose to pay your LGS a couple hundred more than retail, more power to you. I look for the best price. That's called the free market, and the American way. Most gun stores make their $$$$$$$$ off of sight installs, gunsmithing, ammo, etc. Mark your firearm up 2-300 $$$$$$$$$$ and my cash goes elsewhere. So does the rest of my business. I can send in my HK slide, and have sights installed for free. Can't make a profit, your in the wrong business/area. This is all besides the fact that I have 3 LGS with in 5 blocks of me. They are all hurting for business because of their pricing, and WILL probably fold up eventually. Maybe you've heard of one of them, Badger Guns. I've been there and done that. All they do is bad mouth any bullet besides .45 cal., and don't want anything to do with .40 cal. at all, or any of the small calibers. I've had so many people tell me that the people who run these places are all loud mouth jerks. We've also had many of them selling at the gun shows and reporting private sellers to the ATF, for no reason other than they are stealing business away. Some of you may be lucky enough to poo poo $100-200, not me. Then again, many people can afford to have plenty of firearms that they like to show pictures of, and never shoot them. Mine are all shooters.

[diablo53]

Well, you know me...............only been shooting for over 40 years, and I'm too ignorant to realize that there are other stores. My point being, there isn't a store within 500 miles of me, that can sell a firearm any cheaper than the net. Most of the time, even with associated fees, I can still get the firearm cheaper on the net. Averages around $100, sometimes double that. If you choose to pay your LGS a couple hundred more than retail, more power to you. I look for the best price. That's called the free market, and the American way. Most gun stores make their $$$$$$$$ off of sight installs, gunsmithing, ammo, etc. Mark your firearm up 2-300 $$$$$$$$$$ and my cash goes elsewhere. So does the rest of my business. I can send in my HK slide, and have sights installed for free. Can't make a profit, your in the wrong business/area. This is all besides the fact that I have 3 LGS with in 5 blocks of me. They are all hurting for business because of their pricing, and WILL probably fold up eventually. Maybe you've heard of one of them, Badger Guns. I've been there and done that. All they do is bad mouth any bullet besides .45 cal., and don't want anything to do with .40 cal. at all, or any of the small calibers. I've had so many people tell me that the people who run these places are all loud mouth jerks. We've also had many of them selling at the gun shows and reporting private sellers to the ATF, for no reason other than they are stealing business away. Some of you may be lucky enough to poo poo $100-200, not me. Then again, many people can afford to have plenty of firearms that they like to show pictures of, and never shoot them. Mine are all shooters.

I'm with you. Local stores here want new prices for used guns. The stores that have good prices only carry the cheapest of models. The stores that carry the brands I like want $150 to $200 more than they are worth. $10 ffl fee and no tax plus shipping is alot cheaper than buying from any LGS near me.

[Armybrat]

It would be if the local guy sold 20 a day. He probably sells 4 or 5 a month.
The internet shops sell hundreds everyday with few employees and a big warehouse. Low maintenance, most have no showroom to pretty up.

Our two local shops struggling to survive have a lot of folks come in and look em over and then buy on the internet.

I try to support them but I too buy on the internet when there a big difference in price.

100 bucks weather profit or not is a lot of money to me.

Now if I had Jocko's money, I wouldn't give it a thought.
Speaking of Jocko's money, I wonder if he has any left after visiting those Hooters joints down in the Sunshine State?

[muggsy]

Speaking of Jocko's money, I wonder if he has any left after visiting those Hooters joints down in the Sunshine State?

If you had Jocko's money you'd burn yours. :) Who do you think loans Bawanna the money for his many gun purchases?