Cocking cam height with trigger pulled

[tony k]

My cw45 has ftf problems. I noticed that the cocking cam lobe sits .059" above the frame with the trigger all the way pulled. With the trigger pulled, the slide is difficult to rack. I think I have the same issues as afdoc posted here:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21931

Kahr cs disagrees. They say it is supposed to be above the frame. My flawless cm9 says otherwise because its cocking cam does not extend above the frame with the trigger pulled.

What say you all? Do your cocking cams extend above the frame, and if so, how much?

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[tony k]

13317

Forgot pic

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[gb6491]

Here's how the cocking cam lobe that lifts the striker block on my CW45 sits with the trigger held fully to the rear:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2j348wo.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[CJB]

If its too tall, the cam drags on the striker lock.

Unload, check chamber. Pull and hold trigger fully rearward. Pull back slide. Is there drag?

[CJB]

The frame Kahr replaced under warranty has its cam just a hair above the frame, with no drag. I adjusted my other three, and they ceased dragging!

[tony k]

Here's how the cocking cam lobe that lifts the striker block on my CW45 sits with the trigger held fully to the rear:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2j348wo.jpg
Regards,
Greg

That's what my cm9 looks like.

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[tony k]

CJB: my cam drags on the striker and the frame.

Mine is a frame replacement (short rails). Dunno if the original one had same issue.

If it was just a few thousandths, I'd sand it down. Mine is .059" above the frame.

How do I successfully talk to kahr about this? They can be rather short. :-)

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[CJB]

I don't think either of my tall ones were that far past the frame... I didn't measure though. What you've got is damn near 1/16 inch.

I cut mine down using a sanding drum on a Dremel (Foredom actually). A bit of masking tape to protect against a slip. I didn't slip though.

I have no idea of the actual hardening of the cam, but, I really tend to doubt there is any "case" hardening that would be lost. Most likely, its just a MIM part that's put through a basic sort of heat treatment process. MIM parts can be pretty tough as they come. IOW, I'm not afraid that the part will wear terribly and become useless.

Someplace.... is a thread showing what I did.

And, in actual firing, its almost a non-issue, as its very likely the slide will have withdrawn by the distance needed for the striker lock to clear the cam's surface, before the trigger gets back far enough to cause any "binding" due to drag.

To test for the "drag", its helpful to assemble the pistol with no recoil spring assembly in place, and just the movement of the slide by "feel". There will always be some interaction of the cam and striker lock, but.... you don't want that lock pressed upward so far, that it bottoms out (tops out?) in its hole and begins to bind. In a perfect world that is....

[muggsy]

When ever I call any service department I always get the name of the person that I'm speaking with first. If they treat me abruptly I ask to speak to their supervisor. If they claim to be the supervisor I write a letter to the CEO. I've never had a second occasion where someone was abrupt with me. Remain clam and polite through out your conversation.

How many rounds through your gun? What type of failure to feed are you experiencing? Have you experienced the FTF problem with more than one brand of ammo? Does the rim of the case slip under the the extractor fairly easily? There are different types of failures to feed and many different causes of failure to feed. If you aren't mechanically inclined your best bet is to send the gun back to Kahr. Don't tell them what you think is wrong. Explain what the gun is doing or not doing and let them figure it out. In most cases Kahr gets it right on the first try.

[tony k]

CJB, I tested it with the recoil spring removed. It doesn't just drag against the striker block, it basically locks the gun up depending on how hard I squeeze the trigger.13320

Hopefully you can see in the image above where the cocking cam has left wear marks on the bottom side of the slide. It's a shiny trail in front of and behind the striker block. However, you're right; with the recoil spring removed, once it breaks the grip of the striker block channel there's almost no noticeable drag.

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[tony k]

Thanks mugsy,

That's good advice about interacting with cs. Indeed, I made the mistake of telling them what I thought the problem part was rather than explaining how the firearm is malfunctioning.

This CW 45 has about 3000 rounds through it. About 2000 before the frame was replaced and about 1,000 since then. I've had the guns for two years

This gun is so unreliable that I use it only as a failure drill training tool.

Malfunction types include:

nose-dive jams.

slide not returning to battery completely.

Ejects spent case but does not feed next round

Fail to eject spent casing but resetting the trigger

slide stop coming loose.

It's been back to kahr twice. First time they replaced the slide stop and polish the feed ramp and chamber. Second time they replaced the frame. I have about 800 rounds on the current recoil spring.

Ammo types include Winchester white box, Brass cased pmc ball, and numerous defensive rounds from hornady, Winchester, remington, and federal. Never any steel or aluminium cases.

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[tony k]

So I emailed kahr about this issue. I got a ra# and a fed ex overnight mailing label. I wrote up a detailed description of the malfunctions, etc, and got it out for shipment this afternoon. I'm satisfied that Kahr is making a good faith effort to fix it. I'm hopeful that this cw45 will finally be as reliable as my cm9.

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[CJB]

CJB, I tested it with the recoil spring removed. It doesn't just drag against the striker block, it basically locks the gun up depending on how hard I squeeze the trigger.13320


Yah lockup is what they do... jeeze you're is the John Holmes of unlock cams! I smell a new frame.

Hit 'em up for two free mags if thats the case, to compensate you for having to pay your FFL due to their not wanting to legally send back to you directly.

[tony k]

Yah lockup is what they do... jeeze you're is the John Holmes of unlock cams! I smell a new frame.

Hit 'em up for two free mags if thats the case, to compensate you for having to pay your FFL due to their not wanting to legally send back to you directly.
Ha! I think the frame is good (already replaced once), but I think the cam needs to be either modified or replaced, and possibly the extractor. I'll post the outcome.

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[CJB]

I'm wondering if the hole for the cam is not where its 'sposed to be. I can't imagine a cam being that much "off" in spec.

[CJB]

From that first picture, it looks like maybe your ejector is also sittin' just a bit proud too. Hard to tell exactly...

[Bobshouse]

CJB, I tested it with the recoil spring removed. It doesn't just drag against the striker block, it basically locks the gun up depending on how hard I squeeze the trigger.13320

Hopefully you can see in the image above where the cocking cam has left wear marks on the bottom side of the slide. It's a shiny trail in front of and behind the striker block. However, you're right; with the recoil spring removed, once it breaks the grip of the striker block channel there's almost no noticeable drag.

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Tony, could you post that pic again, I can see the one in your first post, but not this one. Just wanted to see if it looked like mine.

Thanks!

[tony k]

Tony, could you post that pic again, I can see the one in your first post, but not this one. Just wanted to see if it looked like mine.

Thanks!

Been having trouble with tapatalk accepting photos. http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13324&stc=1

[tony k]

From that first picture, it looks like maybe your ejector is also sittin' just a bit proud too. Hard to tell exactly...

Maybe... The ejector groove does have some wear polish.

[CJB]

Be interested to see what they say

[tony k]

I got the CW45 back from the factory a few months back. They replaced the slide stop spring, slide stop spring screw, slide stop spring washer, cocking Cam and Trigger, and reworked the barrel.

I put about a hundred rounds of various types of ammo through it without a single failure. YAY!

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[gb6491]

Excellent! :)