What self defense rounds are you using?

[Kodiak]

I recently picked up a CM9 that, according to the seller, has 300 "break-in" rounds through it. It feeds ball ammo just fine, but when I tried running some Winchester 147g JHP white box, it jambs when trying to feed the 1st round. On a good note, although I have yet to fire it, it does feed Federal Personal Defense 124g ok which is obviously what I will keep in it if it cycles properly.
Here is what happens every time I try and load a Winchester round....


http://i63.tinypic.com/2rnv5le.jpg

[rowdy115]

So, this is using the sling shot method to chamber the first round? If so, try Kahr's recommendation of locking the slide back and the using the slide release to chamber the first round from the top of the magazine. Also, you probably already know, but 147 grain is longer OAL than 115 and 124. That extra length may be contributing also. However, I personally carry 147 grain standard pressure Federal HST in my CM9. I can sling shot the first round of those (and any other ammo) into the chamber with ease now after changing to a Lakeline metal magazine follower. Prior to changing the follower I could only sling shot range ball ammo, not hollow points.

[Kodiak]

Yes, slingshot method. It seems impossible to load it any other way since the slide will not lock back with rounds in the mag, it automatically shoves a round in the chamber when I pull the slide back. Plus I am a lefty so using the slide release is pretty awkward. However, it will lock back with any empty mag. BUT, for whatever reason, it is now feeding the Winchester after numerous attempts before I posted. When the temps warm up, I will get it out and see if it cycles properly with both defense rounds I have.

[b4uqzme]

I use Golden Saber 124 grain anyways. The gun might not have as many rounds thru it as claimed...nor do you know how it was cared for. I usually clean and lube a used gun real well then break it in just like it was new (it is to me :)). At some point if the break-in progresses normally, your gun should feed most any round and you should be able to slingshot the first round. I hope that helps.

P.S. some guns never shoot some particular ammo and that discovery is part of the break-in IMHO.

P.S.S. +1 Lakeline LLC followers.

[Bawanna]

It should sling shot just fine. The trick is there's no room for error in your slingshot technique. It needs the full travel of the slide which is why using the slide stop is recommended.

I slingshot mine with no trouble, you just can't ride the slide or fail to pull it completely back.

Some have modified the followers and Lakelines followers help considerable in that area.

[b4uqzme]

Just read post #3. Sounds like it is improving already. Yes, lock the slide back before you insert the mag. Learning to manipulate the slidestop (even being a lefty) is encouraged.

[kenemoore]

Golden Saber 147gr, normal pressure, no problems in an old style PM9. I sling shot everything, works great on the kahr too, it's well broken in though.

[wyntrout]

The slide won't lock back with a full magazine inserted. You must push up on the slide lock lever while pulling the slide to the rear. You can use an inserted empty magazine to lock the slide back when it's pulled to the rear.

If your slide won't lock back when racked on an empty chamber AND an empty magazine, the slide lock spring could be damaged or not assembled correctly with the free end of the spring resting on the ledge of the slide lock lever.

Any ammo you choose to carry for self defense should be thoroughly tested with live fire at the range. Don't be cheap, but fire several magazines full and test mag + 1 loading and reloading. With the slide forward, the full magazine may be hard to seat properly and may require a firm grip of the top of the slide and the bottom of the inserted magazine for that "click" and secure lockup.

I use Speer Golden Sabers Short Barrel for all available calibers in my defensive pistols... 124-gr +P GDSB for 9mm.

Wynn :)

[RonW]

I use winchester's 147gr JHP's from their "Train & Defend" line in all my carry 9's

[OvalNut]

Federal HST 124gr standard pressure in my PM9. I use the slide stop method when loading, and have no problems. I have also run Federal HST 147gr standard pressure in the PM9 with no function problems as well; I just don't shoot it as accurately as the 124gr.


Tim

[Bobshouse]

Round nose Berry's 100 grain RNHB over 4 grains of CFE powder.

[Longitude Zero]

Hornady Critical Defense/Duty.

[SmokyT]

Depending on the availability, I carry either Cor-Bon 115gr DPX +P or Federal 124gr HST (LE) in my PM9, both of which I have range-tested to function with my gun.

[leftysixty]

In 9mm I use Hornady Critical Duty +P, or Gold Dot 124 gr..

[GROTMAN]

I use Hornady critical defense 115 grain. Never had a problem feeding, firing or ejecting in my pm9. :)

[Ronni3_J]

Federal HST 147+P in the 9mm and Hornady XTP in the .380


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[CPTKILLER]

I carry 9mm Federal HST 124 Grain . (http://watchuwanttr.com/redirect?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ammunitiondepot.com%2F Federal-Premium-Tactical-HST-9mm-124-Gr-Ammo-p%2Fp9hst1.htm)

I have not used it in anger unlike my military experience with 5.56X45mm M193.

The 9mm Federal HST 124 Grain (http://watchuwanttr.com/redirect?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ammunitiondepot.com%2F Federal-Premium-Tactical-HST-9mm-124-Gr-Ammo-p%2Fp9hst1.htm) is accurate, reliable (Kahr MK9 & Springfield 9mm EMP), and available.

[berettabone]

I use Hornady critical defense 115 grain. Never had a problem feeding, firing or ejecting in my pm9. :)

That's my current choice also. Had a few issues with the HST, I believe because of the length.

[Wag2323]

I feel your pain as a lefty with all these carry size guns with right hand controls. I load my gun by having the mag out and locking back the slide while holding my gun in the right hand (like a right hand person would do it). Then I put the gun in my left hand, put the mag in and drop the slide release with my index finger. After the round is in the chamber I pull the mag and put another round in it and put the mag back in the gun.

When having to put in a new mag after I empty the first I drop the mag with my left hand middle finger and after putting in the new mag I slingshot the slide. If you can't slingshot the gun and have it chamber that top round then you can practice dropping the slide release with your index finger (tip or side of the finger).

Personally I can charge the gun with either one without much thought in it and I found while the Kahr is tighter than my springfield xd I have no trouble with the slingshot but it can't be babied.


If your the type to never want you change your shooting grip while holding the gun through mag changes then you can also drop the mag by sliding your right hand index finger between your left hand grip and drop the mag like that, then slingshot the new mag.

[DonGlock26]

I use 147gr Golddots in my PM9 with no issues.

[tony k]

I feel your pain as a lefty with all these carry size guns with right hand controls. I load my gun by having the mag out and locking back the slide while holding my gun in the right hand (like a right hand person would do it). Then I put the gun in my left hand, put the mag in and drop the slide release with my index finger. After the round is in the chamber I pull the mag and put another round in it and put the mag back in the gun.

When having to put in a new mag after I empty the first I drop the mag with my left hand middle finger and after putting in the new mag I slingshot the slide. If you can't slingshot the gun and have it chamber that top round then you can practice dropping the slide release with your index finger (tip or side of the finger).

Personally I can charge the gun with either one without much thought in it and I found while the Kahr is tighter than my springfield xd I have no trouble with the slingshot but it can't be babied.


If your the type to never want you change your shooting grip while holding the gun through mag changes then you can also drop the mag by sliding your right hand index finger between your left hand grip and drop the mag like that, then slingshot the new mag.
Interesting... I operate all the controls on my cm9 and cw45 with my left hand. I use my index finger to depress the slide release, and use my middle finger to release the magazine. No hand switching needed.

I have to switch hands to operate the manual safeties on the cz52, and the shield.

Based on tests by shooting the bull and lucky gunner, I no longer use critical duty or xtp in my 3" barrel 9mms. Right now I'm using critical defense until I can find some hst or Winchester defend.

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[Wag2323]

Interesting... I operate all the controls on my cm9 and cw45 with my left hand. I use my index finger to depress the slide release, and use my middle finger to release the magazine. No hand switching needed.



The only thing I can't do with my left hand yet is raise the slide release to lock back the slide. But not really a skill that I worry about at the moment.

[tony k]

The only thing I can't do with my left hand yet is raise the slide release to lock back the slide. But not really a skill that I worry about at the moment.
Yep. It's not something you'd have to do under duress anyway.

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[SmokyT]

I just ordered a couple of boxes of Federal 9mm HST 124gr HST +P to try out. Has anyone used it with PM9 or CM9?


Non +P std. pressure version of HST 124gr HST works all right with my PM9, but never tried the +P version. So I'm curious....

[picrthis]

I can see no reason for the extra pressure applied to the barrel & springs, in such a small barrel it will not increase performance for the shot, & in my humble opinion can only serve to wear parts faster, yes I know it's rated safe for +P, that's what I mean though

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[berettabone]

The purp won't know if he's being shot with a regular ammo, or +P.......................................waste of money.

[SmokyT]

I was interested in hearing about the cycling compatibility of Federal 124gr HST +P with either CM9 or PM9 based on firsthand experiences, so I could compare mine with those of others... But I guess no one here has shot this particular ammo through CM9 or PM9...

[downtownv]

I never saw the need for 147 gr rounds. Muggy's excellent post on the Ballistic Gelatin, certainly didn't convince me the High Charged round were going to make that much difference in damage/penetration over a 124 gr HP. I had heard of more that one time damaging the gun as well.

[OvalNut]

I got lucky about a year ago and found some 147gr Federal HST standard pressure 9mm. The stuff is as rare as hen's teeth. I bought 6 boxes and load them in my Beretta PX4 Compact. While not full size, it is a bigger gun than my PM9 in which I load 124gr HST standard pressure. I did try shooting some of the 147gr through the PM9, and it ran fine, but the recoil impulse was much different than what I prefer now, so I stick with 124gr HST in the PM9.


Tim

[Jarold]

Having watched dozens of videos, most showing comparisons using ballistics gel tests, I use Federal HST 147gr standard pressure and will change it to Federal HST 124gr standard pressure in the warmer months. Federal HST is used widely among police and it is primarily sold to law enforcement agencies. Occasionally, you can find it online. Some may advertise Federal Personal Home Defense ammo P9HS1, P9HS2, etc, but it is not the Premium Tactical Law Enforcement type, and from what I've seen, not quite the punch either. Twenty rounds of that may go for $22 or more, but you can get the superior LE Tactical P9HST1 or P9HST2 (has the "T" in the nomenclature) for around $25 for 50 rounds.

Federal HST is known for their consistency. They seem to penetrate identically, expand uniformly, and retain their weight. Of course, this is using ballistics gel with and without Denim, and so it is hypothetical. But if law enforcement agencies use HST, I would venture to say that there is a good reason for doing so.

I've shot both in my CM9 with no issues. I can tell a big difference in accuracy using Federal HST vs cheaper FMJ target ammo. In fact, I just purchased 150 rounds of 147gr and 50 rounds of 124gr today at a cost of around $120 which includes S/H.

Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P is another good self-defense round if you can get it. I prefer not to use the +P rounds as it will eventually wear out your gun prematurely if you use a lot of it, especially for practice.

[SmokyT]

I tried Federal 124gr HST +P at the range. Shot 14 rounds through my PM9 - two 6 rounder mags and one in chamber for each mag.


Just like the std. pressure version, all rounds cycled the gun without any issue whatsoever. The only difference was the recoil, which was very much the same as that of Speer 124gr GD +P short barrel. The recoil was not really that bad, but I'm a better shot with the std. pressure version or Cor-Bon 115gr DPX +P, which to me kicks even less than the std. pressure 124gr HST...


I'll probably reserve 124gr HST +P and 124gr GD +P for my Glocks, and use the std. pressure version or Cor-Bon 115gr DPX +P with my PM9.

[badge4436]

Winchester Ranger T 147 grain 9mm (RA9T).

[Ron AZ]

PM9 that current favorite is Federal HST 147 +P. But I have fired the following through it with never this issue: Hornady American Gunner 124 +P, Remington Golden Saber 124 +P, Hornady Critical Defense 115, Hornady Custom 147 gr. XTP, Federal Am Eagle 147 gr FMJ, Hornady Critical Duty 135 +P, Federal HST 124 gr, and several other 115 and 124 gr FMJ's.

[OvalNut]

PM9 that current favorite is Federal HST 147 +P. But I have fired the following through it with never this issue: Hornady American Gunner 124 +P, Remington Golden Saber 124 +P, Hornady Critical Defense 115, Hornady Custom 147 gr. XTP, Federal Am Eagle 147 gr FMJ, Hornady Critical Duty 135 +P, Federal HST 124 gr, and several other 115 and 124 gr FMJ's.

HST 124gr +P in a PM9? You're a better man than I for sure. I tried HST 147gr in my PM9, and really liked the way they cycled, and the terminal ballistics for sure. Yet, I just couldn't quite hang on to them for true accuracy in such a small single stack gun. I went back happily to HST 124gr for my PM9.

I do though carry the HST 147gr in my Beretta PX4 Compact with what I can only describe as extreme accuracy for a very lethal carry round.


Tim

[Ron AZ]

HST 124gr +P in a PM9? You're a better man than I for sure. I tried HST 147gr in my PM9, and really liked the way they cycled, and the terminal ballistics for sure. Yet, I just couldn't quite hang on to them for true accuracy in such a small single stack gun. I went back happily to HST 124gr for my PM9.

I do though carry the HST 147gr in my Beretta PX4 Compact with what I can only describe as extreme accuracy for a very lethal carry round.
Tim

Yes, mine likes the Win NATO 124 grain best for FMJ's too. So there is some recoil to manage.

I could not get the HST 124 to group as well as the HST 147 + P in my PM9. At 25 yards (using a rest) the 124 gr. was about an 8" group. The 147 +P was 5" +/-.

The gel test numbers are really great on the HST 124 but I also could not get it to group well in my Glock either. So i sold off most of it.

[RonW]

I been using winchester's Train & defend, both the FMJ's for practice & the defend for carry.... excellent round!

[greg_r]

I use the Lee TL452-230-TC in my 45's, the TL356-124-TC in my 9's and 38's. And the TL356-95-RF in my 380's. Did I say I liked Truncated Cones?

[Tpepper70]

Greg_r, what are you sizing tl 356-124 tc bullets to? I have this mold and shot as cast in my XD9SC, but haven't had a chance to slug my Kahrs yet and have a bunch loaded. Mine cast at 357 and are 358-359 once powder coated. Just curious. Thanks

Cruce Dum Spiro Fido

[greg_r]

Greg_r, what are you sizing tl 356-124 tc bullets to? I have this mold and shot as cast in my XD9SC, but haven't had a chance to slug my Kahrs yet and have a bunch loaded. Mine cast at 357 and are 358-359 once powder coated. Just curious. Thanks

Cruce Dum Spiro Fido
I do not have a 9mm Kahr.....yet! My nines are a Taurus PT809, a SCCY CPX2, and a HI Point C9. I have never slugged the bores on either of my nines. Just lubed with mule snot, run them through a .356 sizer, and lubed them a second time. One day I decided to measure them and found they dropped from the mold at .358. Wondered how they would do in the 38 special. They did fine as dropped. Tried a few in the 9mm's and they did fine too. Actually better as the slight leading I was getting stopped. Now I just lube 'em and load 'em!

[Tpepper70]

Sounds good greg. Thanks for the response. I'll post results when I get a chance to shoot what I have loaded.

Cruce Dum Spiro Fido