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downtownv
03-11-2016, 05:16 PM
Why the war was not about slavery


Posted on March 11, 2016 (http://personalliberty.com/why-the-war-was-not-about-slavery/) by The Abbeville Review (http://personalliberty.com/author/abbevillereviewpl/)Views: 1,251

https://plnami.blob.core.windows.net/media/2016/03/CivilWar031016battle-1-800x500.jpgThis column first appeared at the Abbeville Institute (http://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/clyde-wilson-library/why-the-war-was-not-about-slavery/) website.
Conventional wisdom of the moment tells us that the great war of 1861—1865 was “about” slavery or was “caused by” slavery. I submit that this is not a historical judgment but a political slogan. What a war is about has many answers according to the varied perspectives of different participants and of those who come after. To limit so vast an event as that war to one cause is to show contempt for the complexities of history as a quest for the understanding of human action.
Two generations ago, the most perceptive historians, much more learned than the current crop, said that the war was “about” economics and was “caused by” economic rivalry. The war has not changed one bit since then. The perspective has changed. It can change again as long as people have the freedom to think about the past. History is not a mathematical calculation or scientific experiment but a vast drama of which there is always more to be learned.
I was much struck by Barbara Marthal’s (http://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/author/barbara-marthal/) insistence in her Stone Mountain talk on the importance of stories in understanding history. I entirely concur. History is the experience of human beings. History is a story and a story is somebody’s story. It tells us about who people are. History is not a political ideological slogan like “about slavery.” Ideological slogans are accusations and instruments of conflict and domination. Stories are instruments of understanding and peace.
Let’s consider the war and slavery. Again and again I encounter people who say that the South Carolina secession ordinance mentions the defense of slavery and that one fact proves beyond argument that the war was caused by slavery. The first States to secede did mention a threat to slavery as a motive for secession. They also mentioned decades of economic exploitation and the seizure of the common government for the first time ever by a sectional party declaredly hostile to the Southern States. Were they to be a permanently exploited minority, they asked? This was significant to people who knew that their fathers and grandfathers had founded the Union for the protection and benefit of all the States.
It is no surprise that they mentioned potential interference with slavery as a threat to their everyday life and their social structure. Only a few months before, John Brown and his followers had attempted just that. They murdered a number of people, including a free black man who was a respected member of the Harpers Ferry community, and a grand-nephew of George Washington, because Brown wanted Washington’s sword as a talisman. In Brown’s baggage was a constitution making him dictator of a new black nation and a supply of pikes to be used to stab to death the slave-owner and his wife and children.
It is significant that not one single slave joined Brown’s attempted blow against slavery. It was entirely an affair of outsiders. Significant also is that six Northern rich men financed Brown and that some elements of the North celebrated him as a saint, an agent of God, ringing the church bells at his execution. Even more significantly, Brown was merely acting out the venomous hatred of Southerners that had characterized some parts of Northern society for many years previously.
Could this relentless barrage of hatred directed by Northerners against their Southern fellow citizens have perhaps had something to do with the secession impulse? That was the opinion of Horatio Seymour, Democratic governor of New York. In a public address he pointed to the enormity of making war on Southern fellow citizens who had always been exceptionally loyal Americans, but who had been driven to secession by New England fanaticism.
Secessionists were well aware that slavery was under no immediate threat within the Union. Indeed, some anti-secessionists, especially those with the largest investment in slave property, argued that slavery was safer under the Union than in a new experiment in government.

Continued:
http://personalliberty.com/why-the-war-was-not-about-slavery/

muggsy
03-11-2016, 06:16 PM
It's my understanding that the Civil War had more to do with States rights than slavery.

knkali
03-11-2016, 06:44 PM
It's my understanding that the Civil War had more to do with States rights than slavery.

shhhhh that's a secret

AJBert
03-11-2016, 08:27 PM
All one needs to do is look up the date of the start of the Civil War and the date of the Proclamation of Emancipation to understand whether the Civil War was over slavery or not.

deadeye
03-11-2016, 08:43 PM
The South having all the resources and all that cheap labor had a lot to do with it.

marshal kane
03-12-2016, 07:42 AM
I believe it was mainly disputes over States rights vs. Federal control especially whenever taxation was involved. I guess to this day, nothing has changed. The war had been going on for several years before Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation. The purpose of the war, in Lincoln's eyes was to keep the Union intact. In fact, Lincoln had stated that he would free no slaves or free them all in order to stop the war just to clarify where he stood on the issue. Ridding the Union of slavery was a Northern cause which would have created an enormous hardship on the agricultural South that needed people to work the fields.

In terms of resources, it was all up North which was industrialized. Just about everything factory made was made up North. The South was mainly agricultural and as a result. even had to import arms from Europe to sustain the fight. Hence, the need for ships to run the Union blockade of Southern ports.

Slaves being cheap labor is one way of looking at it but there were other expenses that came along with them. Initially, slaves had to be bought then housed, fed, clothed, and taught their duties. They had to be controlled against running away and cared for in times of sickness or injury. They were an investment in labor for the plantation owners/farmers and every once in a while, they might rebel and cause havoc e.g. Nat Turner. Not everyone in the South was a rich plantation owner, that's Hollywood, there were far many more Southern farmers who had just a slave or two.

downtownv
03-12-2016, 09:12 AM
Ahhh political talk of 150 years ago, no bickering on this one.

Bawanna
03-12-2016, 09:51 AM
I still believe the south will rise again. Least ways I hope so.

DavidWJ
03-12-2016, 12:51 PM
The South also wanted to go back to the Royal ways of England. They had a class system similar to England which conflicted with the US Constitution, so the Southern wanted to succeed from the union. Slavery was a symptom of this.

SlowBurn
03-12-2016, 02:25 PM
Revisionist history is fun, and its understandable that southerners want the war to have been about something else, but it was slavery. There was always a flaw in the constitution at founding of the country because slavery is inconsistent with the basic premises of the Declaration, Jefferson knew it would eventually tear us apart. If you read the contemporary writings from civil war period, everyone knew it was about slavery. Its fashionable now to say it was about state's rights but at the time the only "state's rights" in dispute pertained to owning slave "property" and the right to transport slaves to free states without losing the legal right to possess them,

hardluk1
03-12-2016, 04:07 PM
To think the north did not run on a slaves back is foolish . The wealthy northerners had slaves too . Someone had to do the work around there estates too . The war had nothing to do with slavery , it was about industry and economy . Thomas Jefferson was a hypocrite and had with as many as 200 slaves him self .

Read up on a southern black man that's carries a rebel flag . H K Edgerton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1vQTMX2ELs

Armybrat
03-13-2016, 09:26 AM
I still believe the south will rise again. Least ways I hope so.

Well, next time they can do it without Texas. We like to march to our own drum beat.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Armybrat5/Money005_zps8c62e8d6.jpg

It was about States Rights to own slaves and control of Congress. Nothing more, nothing less - no matter how anyone spins it. But the damyankees had their own form of slavery with the "company town" system & child labor. They didn't overcome that corruption until the 20th century.

Scarywoody
03-13-2016, 05:27 PM
The Civil War had little to nothing to do with slavery. I can't see a white dude in Massachusetts strapping up to go fight for slavery. Even the Emancipation Proclamation had more to do with Confederate disruption than actually freeing any slaves. Five northern slave owning states were exempted. It's like Obama (God forbid) saying that Syria is free and for the oppressed to take up arms. Not his country but a way to urge civil disruption.

downtownv
03-13-2016, 05:44 PM
Why do most Black folk think the war WAS over slavery?

Armybrat
03-13-2016, 09:53 PM
As I stated, it was about control of congress because the South wanted to extend slavery westward & vice versa. Yankee/Lincoln hypocrisy on freeing the slaves during the war notwithstanding. Besides, they went on to complete the emancipation process which validated it in the end.

But the Yankees made a terrible mistake in not adopting Abe's softer treatment of the defeated South, and instead inflicted the hated carpetbaggers on the region. Not to mention the economic suppression that continued up until WWII. That's a major reason Southern states lag economically behind the North.

marshal kane
03-14-2016, 08:01 AM
When you lose a war, you suffer the consequences. When you lose an election, you suffer the consequences and how this country has suffered!

marshal kane
03-14-2016, 08:03 AM
Why do most Black folk think the war WAS over slavery?
It's always the "ME" syndrome e.g. "BLACK lives matter". WRONG! ALL lives matter.

marshal kane
03-14-2016, 08:13 AM
The Civil War had little to nothing to do with slavery. I can't see a white dude in Massachusetts strapping up to go fight for slavery. Even the Emancipation Proclamation had more to do with Confederate disruption than actually freeing any slaves. Five northern slave owning states were exempted. It's like Obama (God forbid) saying that Syria is free and for the oppressed to take up arms. Not his country but a way to urge civil disruption.
Yes, slavery WAS part of the reason why the war was fought. White dudes in Massachusetts along with other Northern white dudes who were HIGHLY religious joined the conflict using the war as an opportunity to abolish slavery. The slavery issue had been brewing a long time before the war ever began. Let us not forget that lot of white dudes died so that blacks would be free. Some black people seem to have forgotten that but they clearly remember how badly their great-great grandparents were treated.

downtownv
03-14-2016, 11:10 AM
The flag is now a symbol of defiance to the federal government.
Bit of irony.

Seems the very reason the first use of the flag, has become the very reason it is being attacked in such fashion.

When the .gov was (ab)used by those who chose to suppress and oppress the people in the southern states and resulted in the choking the life of those people, they rose up and rebelled because the Constitution, that "contract" to be a guide for the law to serve all, was breached and so chose the southern people to "live, and die" by the spirit and intent of that Constitution.

The war was not lost in vain by the south, for a large effect was the "resetting" of the machine of the government and the people, although crippled by the events, it allowed, for some 100 years, that some good and peace for both north and south existed.

Then, 100 years later, a traitorous southerner, Lyndon Johnson made a "deal" for a Great Society, and we are now reaping in the harvest of poisonous crops of that planting.

Those who choose today to tear down the "Southern Cross", are doing so, because of the spirit and intent of the people to stand again, against the special interest groups who have bedded with the government and together have robbed and oppress and suppress the good people that work and build.

Who is the slave here?
Who is the evil master?
Who is it that is full of racial and other intolerant hatred?
And who is it that is in chains?

It is the good people, hard working, and people who want to be free and want freedom for all, and that people is not bound by a color, or a religion, or a law.

But those who are hellbent on stealing and destroying, would have the world believe a lie.

May God help us, and all to see.

livefreeordie1
03-14-2016, 11:13 AM
It isn't fair to judge men of 150 years ago by today's mores. Let's hope that our soldiers who fought in the Middle East and Afghanistan aren't portrayed as evil, empirical crusaders by future inhabitants of the Ivory towers.

Armybrat
03-14-2016, 03:24 PM
When you lose a war, you suffer the consequences. When you lose an election, you suffer the consequences and how this country has suffered!

Very true - and the winners get to write the history books.