Kahr Firing Pins?

[New Guy With a Crack]

Hi guys, I'm a new member but I read a ton. Too much probably, on all forums. Anyways, I'm a bit concerned about the Kahr firing pins, not just the .380s, but the 9mms. It appears as though with too much dry firing people get broken firing pins on the 9mms. I've read quite a few posts on a variety of forums, including this one, and it appears to be a trend. Personally, I don't dry fire any of my firearms without a snap cap, regardless of what the manual says. By the way, I do realize dry firing is required for disassembly.

I fully realize and hope that I am wrong. I'm not trying to say I for sure have concluded anything.

So my question is this. How many of you dry fire your Kahr 9mms often and have not broken a firing pin? I'm not trying to start a thread about dry firing, but trying to get an idea of how robust the 9mm firing pins are with specific examples. I really appreciate any replies. Thanks in advance.

[Bills1873]

PM9, dry fired probably 300 times without snap cap. I'll probably do snap caps in the future.

[New Guy With a Crack]

Thanks man. Here's one of the threads I was referring to. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-346126.html

Besides that thread I've read things like this: "Kahr says it's safe to dry fire, but it's not, I broke my firing pin after dry firing multiple times (PM9)." And then there were a few threads on this forum in which the person broke a pin, and then wondered if his constant dry firing had anything to do with it. I've read stuff like this quite a few times. Again, only referring to the 9mms, as I realize the 380s are notorious for this so I'm not going to address that.

Here's another actual quote I found: "Had ONE problem when I tried out my first Kahr K9, though. I fired one magazine through it and then dry-fired a little and ended up breaking the firing pin."

Here's another that was found on this forum: "I went to shoot my PM9 today and couldn't because I believe the pin is broken." Later on in the thread he stated this: "I got my gun back last Tuesday the striker was replace. I shot it today with no issue. I just wonder if I dry fired to often. Anyway all is well."

Yet another: "I have both a PM9 and an MK9 and, personally, like the MK9 a lot better.
Last weekend I did a total strip-down of my MK9 and discovered that the striker is cracked and a lot of the plating has come off.
Curiosity prompted me to also strip down the PM9 and that striker is cracked in exactly the same place.
This got my attention because it seems that a BROKEN striker could really mess up my day.
I have somewhere in the vicinity of 600-800 rounds downrange on each pistol and probably 3-4 times that many dry-fires.
(Just can't get to the range very often)."

[OldFatGuy]

I just can't figure how you would break a firing pin dry firing a Kahr, or any other center fire for that matter. Maybe someone will enlighten us all and explain the mechanics.

[Alfonse]

Thanks man. Here's one of the threads I was referring to. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-346126.html



If you are doing a bunch of dry firing, a snap cap never hurts. That thread is from 2008. When I was making the striker for the .380, I looked at the other Kahr models as well. I really couldn't find it being a problem in the last 5 or more years. I don't know if changes were made, but the instances of it coming up as an issue mostly went away. At least, that's what it looked like to me. YMMV.

[Alfonse]

PM9, dry fired probably 300 times without snap cap. I'll probably do snap caps in the future.

Are you saying it broke, or has not broken?

[New Guy With a Crack]

Thanks Alfonse.

Here why I was concerned. I fully realize that if you google "Brand X and broken _____" you'll get a ton of responses. But with the Kahr 9mms it seemed anytime there was a broken pin, it was associated with dry firing. Furthermore, they always broke in the same spot, so it seemed like a trend to me rather than the fact that you will always get a lemon or a faulty part with any mass produced product.

[Alfonse]

Thanks Alfonse.

Here why I was concerned. I fully realize that if you google "Brand X and broken _____" you'll get a ton of responses. But with the Kahr 9mms it seemed anytime there was a broken pin, it was associated with dry firing. Furthermore, they always broke in the same spot, so it seemed like a trend to me rather than the fact that you will always get a lemon or a faulty part with any mass produced product.

They will pretty much always break at the weak point. I did searches on it too, and am pretty confident I couldn't sell many 9mm strikers. Dry firing does seem to exacerbate the possible issue, but as I said, it doesn't seem to be something that happens with anything recent. It would be fun to find an early 9mm and compare the striker to a new one and see if there is a difference. But, I think that would be mostly for academic curiosity since if it happened very often people would be on this forum talking about it. I can't remember one instance and Bawanna tells me I've been here 6 years or so.

[b4uqzme]

Yeah. The internet kinda sucks that way. If you Googled everything you probably wouldn't buy anything. Someone somewhere has had every possible problem. Also postings that are years old are many times hard to identify. My MK9 is 12 years old and I dry fire practice a lot...hundreds...maybe thousands of times...without snap caps. No broken striker yet. Please don't let that stop you.

Welcome.

[New Guy With a Crack]

Yeah. The internet kinda sucks that way. If you Googled everything you probably wouldn't buy anything. Someone somewhere has had every possible problem. Also postings that are years old are many times hard to identify. My MK9 is 12 years old and I dry fire practice a lot...hundreds...maybe thousands of times...without snap caps. No broken striker yet. Please don't let that stop you.

Welcome.

Thanks a lot, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I already have a PM9, K9, and an MK9. They've been totally reliable and accurate, and I love the looks and all steel construction of the K9 and MK9. I shoot them more accurately than any other handgun I've shot, so I love Kahrs.

It could be that, as with any mass produced product, Kahr occasionally got a bad batch of strikers for the 9mms that were more prone to breakage. Although frankly, I don't trust the strikers on the 380s at all, as I think they are inherently flawed, but this topic is only about the 9mms.

[New Guy With a Crack]

They will pretty much always break at the weak point. I did searches on it too, and am pretty confident I couldn't sell many 9mm strikers. Dry firing does seem to exacerbate the possible issue, but as I said, it doesn't seem to be something that happens with anything recent. It would be fun to find an early 9mm and compare the striker to a new one and see if there is a difference. But, I think that would be mostly for academic curiosity since if it happened very often people would be on this forum talking about it. I can't remember one instance and Bawanna tells me I've been here 6 years or so.

I wasn't considering the dates of the posts. I wasn't under the impression that they changed the design of the strikers. Some of them, if I recall correctly, were fairly recent, like 2010's.

If there are people who have dry fired hundreds or thousands of times and haven't broken the pin, then it doesn't seem like it is an inherent issue or weak point. It could be as I stated above a bad batch of strikers.

[Bills1873]

Alfonse, no pin broken, gun is fine. It appears to be a non-issue. Enjoy your great little Kahrs!

[RonW]

I'm not at all in the least concerned about my kahr firing pins breaking from dry firing them.... I've been shooting handguns both as a sport & hobby since the mid 80's and not yet had to experience a firing pin breaking on me. The only time I ever had to send a pistol back was because of my screw up, not the gun's.

I think what we are seeing is a example of "if you look for it online, you will find it". Google "kahr firing pins breaking"... and you will most likely find a bunch of links on firing pins breaking and it may cause one to start to wonder..... Google "kahr pistol's are the best", and you'll probably find a bunch of links on how great they are....But just to answer the question, yes, I've always used snap caps in my guns so maybe that may be in partial to why i never had a pin break....

[skiflydive]

This is just my opinion and I'm throwing it out there FWIW. It appears to me that the striker "firing pin" itself, where it intersects the face of the striker "body" has a radius shape. Not unusual and standard practice in machining to prevent a stress point at that intersection. I'm wondering if the firing pin hole that projects through the breech doesn't have a corresponding radius or relief at the back end does dry firing allow the radius on the striker smash itself into the striker hole with enough force to stress the firing pin/striker interface to the point that it finally gives up. Once again, just an opinion, more of a question for more informed folk like Alphonse.

[OldFatGuy]

That would make sense, but I hope their machining is better than that.

[Alfonse]

This is just my opinion and I'm throwing it out there FWIW. It appears to me that the striker "firing pin" itself, where it intersects the face of the striker "body" has a radius shape. Not unusual and standard practice in machining to prevent a stress point at that intersection. I'm wondering if the firing pin hole that projects through the breech doesn't have a corresponding radius or relief at the back end does dry firing allow the radius on the striker smash itself into the striker hole with enough force to stress the firing pin/striker interface to the point that it finally gives up. Once again, just an opinion, more of a question for more informed folk like Alphonse.

I've really only looked at the .380s in detail. I haven't seen any concerns in how Kahr machines. I think the .380 may be a scaling issue that wasn't detected. The primer has to be hit just about as hard with the little .380 as it does on the other pistols to make it go boom. But, scale down the striker and it may have become more highly stressed. To answer your question directly, I could detect no issues with the way the striker interacts with the slide frame. Everything seems to mate up and seat properly with the larger flat surfaces meeting rather than getting hung up in the corner around the pin.

As far as dry firing, there seems to be a correlation in that many of those who report failures in .380s also mention dry firing. I don't know if that is causation though. The striker would decelerate much more quickly hitting the solid frame than with a primer that deforms when it is hit. It may be that simple. As I said when I was looking at it, the solution regardless was to make it stronger. In that sense I would argue that the cause is that sometimes it isn't strong enough.

[SmokyT]

... . How many of you dry fire your Kahr 9mms often and have not broken a firing pin? ... .

I own two PM9 pistols, and I dry fire them a lot without a snap cap. But both of them still have the original strikers that came with the guns a couple years ago. My P380, however, broke two strikers already, and I haven't dry fired it nearly as many times.

[CJB]

Many thousands of dry fires, no snap caps, on my PM45s and PM9s. Zero issues!

[New Guy With a Crack]

Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it. I love my Kahr 9mms and it bothered to me to think they had brittle strikers but I feel a lot better now.

[RustyGunn]

I have 4800 rds thru my 2010 made PM9 and at least as many dry fires without snap caps. At my last recent slide teardown for cleaning,
I looked at the firing pin with a 15x microscope and could not see any indication of cracking or unusual wear. FWIW

[New Guy With a Crack]

I have 4800 rds thru my 2010 made PM9 and at least as many dry fires without snap caps. At my last recent slide teardown for cleaning,
I looked at the firing pin with a 15x microscope and could not see any indication of cracking or unusual wear. FWIW

Awesome, thanks for the info. I gave the PM9 I had to my dad after I bought an MK9. It was a great pistol.

[jayo84]

Awesome, thanks for the info. I gave the PM9 I had to my dad after I bought an MK9. It was a great pistol.

I have seen people question this concept about many gun brands and not just Kahrs. In my opinion, if A gun needs to be "dry fired" in order to be disassembled, then it should be dry fire safe. Theres something about the striker design which leaves it safe to dry fire. Perhaps something is out of tolerance when we hear people with broken firing pins after dry fire? Not sure.

[New Guy With a Crack]

I have seen people question this concept about many gun brands and not just Kahrs. In my opinion, if A gun needs to be "dry fired" in order to be disassembled, then it should be dry fire safe. Theres something about the striker design which leaves it safe to dry fire. Perhaps something is out of tolerance when we hear people with broken firing pins after dry fire? Not sure.

With the 9mms, that's probably the case.

With the 380s though... There were way too many cases, sometimes multiple times after the factory replaced the striker, to have any level of confidence in their striker design.

[topgun1953]

With the 9mms, that's probably the case.

With the 380s though... There were way too many cases, sometimes multiple times after the factory replaced the striker, to have any level of confidence in their striker design.

Yeah!!! Like FOUR times...

[New Guy With a Crack]

Yeah!!! Like FOUR times...

They're great guns though. I've shot the P380 before and I was amazed by how accurate I was with it, I shot it better than many of my full size pistols. I know Lakeline has a good striker for it but I'm currently in my "all-steel only" phase :biggrin1: Now if they made an all-steel version of the P380, that would be my dream gun. With little wood grips too, it'd be a really neat gun, like a mini MK.

You listening Kahr?? We need an MK380 with a beefed up striker!! :biggrin1:

[muggsy]

I've dry fired both my CM9 and P380 thousands of times and have never had a problem with the striker in either gun.

[Bobshouse]

I've never had any problems either, but I like to keep spares, just in case. I was going to order from Kahr, but I figured, what the heck, for a couple of dollars more, I can support one of the rarest people on the planet, a Kahr aftermarket designer/merchandiser. Not to many out there that sell aftermarket products for Kahr handguns.

I'd be glad to offer more support if'n there's other products coming out for the P380 or PM45....hint, hint!

[Alfonse]

I've never had any problems either, but I like to keep spares, just in case. I was going to order from Kahr, but I figured, what the heck, for a couple of dollars more, I can support one of the rarest people on the planet, a Kahr aftermarket designer/merchandiser. Not to many out there that sell aftermarket products for Kahr handguns.

I'd be glad to offer more support if'n there's other products coming out for the P380 or PM45....hint, hint!

Of course I am working on more stuff! Thanks

[muggsy]

I carry my spare parts in the form of a spare gun, but that's just me. :)

[jocko]

im alittle late to the dance on this drying firing thing, but let me say it is 100% ok to dry fire a kahr. If u feel queezy about dry firing, then just use a snap cap and u can dry fire and just rack the slide about a 1/4" and it will reeset the trigger and u can dry fire until the sun comes up. Just sayin

[berettabone]

I don't waste my time...........................nothing like shooting live ammo...................

[New Guy With a Crack]

Read this thread guys:

http://pistolsmith.com/kahr-pistols/19990-cracked-striker-firing-pin.html

And from another thread:
"The manual for my Kahr CW9 says it's safe to dry fire. Over a period including around 8,000 live fires and more than 10,000 dry fires (without snap caps) I've had to replace broken strikers twice (which I can do myself)." This is from this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-652287.html

"Excessive dry firing (thousands of cycles) led to two broken firing pins in my PM9. Apparently the pm9 lacks a spring to arrest the forward travel of the firing pin when dry firing which causes excessive stress leading to breakage." https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/20io9i/opinions_on_kahr/

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ you don't have to dry fire if you don't want to. Or use snap caps like Jocko suggests. Me? I'm OK with it.

[Bawanna]

10,000 dry fires? How does one keep track of something like that?

And I didn't think I had a life. Nothing against the dry fire, it's great practice and a good way to stay bonded without a range trip but that's a ton.

[New Guy With a Crack]

^^^ you don't have to dry fire if you don't want to. Or use snap caps like Jocko suggests. Me? I'm OK with it.

I don't dry fire, and I'm not trying to bash Kahrs, as I have a few and really like the accuracy, small size, and reliability, moreso than any other pistol as a matter of fact. But it seems to me like their firing pin design isn't that robust. To me it seems as though batches of strikers that are just slightly off spec are prone to breakage whereas in other designs this wouldn't be an issue.

In my opinion, we shouldn't suggest dry firing without a snap cap. I found a few more threads here as well with that issue, but I'd be beating a dead horse at this point. Some Kahrs may tolerate it while others might be prone to breakage from too much of it.

[jocko]

10,000 dry fires? How does one keep track of something like that?

And I didn't think I had a life. Nothing against the dry fire, it's great practice and a good way to stay bonded without a range trip but that's a ton.

this sounds like sumpin Muggsy would do, as all he does is watch tv and bash donald, so he probalby dry fires alot. just sayin. actually the nut case has been dry firng all his life, he just didn't know what they clled it back then..

[Bawanna]

Damn I've missed you Jocko and I'm totally ashamed to admit it................................

Carry on.

Two more post and you can post a picture.

[jocko]

Read this thread guys:

http://pistolsmith.com/kahr-pistols/19990-cracked-striker-firing-pin.html

And from another thread:
"The manual for my Kahr CW9 says it's safe to dry fire. Over a period including around 8,000 live fires and more than 10,000 dry fires (without snap caps) I've had to replace broken strikers twice (which I can do myself)." This is from this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-652287.html

"Excessive dry firing (thousands of cycles) led to two broken firing pins in my PM9. Apparently the pm9 lacks a spring to arrest the forward travel of the firing pin when dry firing which causes excessive stress leading to breakage." https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/20io9i/opinions_on_kahr/

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.

would guess one can overdue anything. . My guess it was a bad firing pin in the first place, but again 10K dry fires, ... someone has zero life. just sayin. Firing pins break on some of the finest guns, so kahrs are not in that elite status. My buddy's rare and excellent Model 21 broke a firing pin last year..