P380 won't go completely into battery after one mag

[DM123]

This is an older (5 years I think) P380. Traditionally it is my summer pocket carry gun. It has been in my safe since last summer, using a PM 9 in cooler times. It is stored empty with the slide back.

I can shoot one mag of seven with slide hold open on the last round. If I immediately put another mag in, the slide won't go all the way forward after a couple rounds fired, lacking maybe 1/8 inch but enough that the gun won't shoot. I can push the slide forward the last little bit with a finger and get maybe 2-3 rounds fired and same issue again. Also no bolt hold open on last round of this mag.

I've field stripped and cleaned it, making sure the recoil spring is oriented correctly. I shoot mostly reloads but tried Remington UMC as a test. Same issue. Used the barrel as a case gauge and my rounds went into and fell out of the barrel freely. My reloads, plated RN bullets, OAL is .960. Bullseye powder. Rem UMC jacketed RN. This gun was reliable last year. I have used Balistol to clean and lube my guns. Balistol has a reputation for getting a bit gummy over time but I have not had any issues with it. I flushed out the slide with Gunslick, working the slide. Same issue.

Can the recoil springs loose tension over time?
Any other thoughts?

[gb6491]

Reads like you have touched most of the bases, but I'd ask if you have disassembled the slide and cleaned the striker parts?
Regards,
Greg

[topgun1953]

How are your recoil springs doing?

[DM123]

Reads like you have touched most of the bases, but I'd ask if you have disassembled the slide and cleaned the striker parts?
Regards,
Greg
No, I have not done that. I've just stuck a can of gun cleaner in the little hole in the striker channel and sprayed until cleaner comes out, then spray with some type of lube. Maybe I'll look up something on You Tube to see how to take this apart unless someone knows of a link to this web site. My PM9 has been reliable to a fault, as reliable as my Glock 19, just smaller.

[DM123]

How are your recoil springs doing?

How can I tell? They are not broken and are oriented properly with the curly end at the muzzle.

[RonW]

you said you stored the pistol in the safe for 5 yrs with the slide locked back??

Replace that recoil spring....

[Bobshouse]

No, I have not done that. I've just stuck a can of gun cleaner in the little hole in the striker channel and sprayed until cleaner comes out, then spray with some type of lube. Maybe I'll look up something on You Tube to see how to take this apart unless someone knows of a link to this web site. My PM9 has been reliable to a fault, as reliable as my Glock 19, just smaller.

Well there's part of your problem, try the can of gun cleaner in the little hole, but leave the lube out. Kahr striker channels should be almost lube free, with all that lube in them they are acting like shock absorbers.

[hardluk1]

RonW touch on what should be the problem . New recoil springs . Don't lock the slide back .

[geogecko]

Agreed, in my limited knowledge, my first stab would be the recoil springs, especially since the recommendation is to leave it locked back for a day or two when you get it new, to kind of break them in. Leaving it locked back for longer periods I would imagine, would weaken them over time.

Also, while the striker wouldn't cause that problem (that I am aware of) it should not be lubed at all. Just lubing the rest of your gun will likely get a little lube in there anyway, by accident.

[Bobshouse]

I've had magazines loaded for over 5 years with no ill effects. What ruins springs is the continual compression/decompression of use. Being compressed over a long period of time should have no effect on them.

[geogecko]

That seems to be the concensus on the interwebs after a little searching, so the next question is, how many rounds are on that set of recoil springs then?

[SlowBurn]

That seems to be the concensus on the interwebs after a little searching, so the next question is, how many rounds are on that set of recoil springs then?

I'd replace them after 5 years regardless. Cheap enough, can't hurt.

[CharlieR]

I would run some more GunScrubber in the striker channel, and this time leave OUT the lube.....shouldn't have any in there.....it will attract powder/dirt/gunk, and you may end up with light strikes.

Charlie

[DM123]

I pulled up Kahrs website and found the recoil springs for the P380.

I thought I might as well get a set for my PM9 at the same time. There are two different recoil spring assemblies listed. I have tape over the grip as repeated firing at one outing causes the nubbies to wear into the skin on my hand. I figured I could take the tape off and send an e-mail to Kahr and ask them but was hoping not to have to take the tape off. Is there a visual way to tell the difference in the two types of recoil spring assemblies? http://www.kahr.com/Parts/Kahr-PM9-PM9093.asp

[Bawanna]

You have the blunt nosed version or the Tapered nose version. The Tapered model recoil spring is just a nano longer than the earlier blunt nosed.

I think it's the general consensus that the old style will work on the new style but not vice versa but don't take that to the bank. I'm not for sure certain on that.

[DM123]

This is what the nose on mine looks like.http://www.kahr.com/premium-series.asp It must be the new style, i.e. tapered nosed. Unless someone else has a different opinion, I'll order the new style.

[CharlieR]

That is the "new style". The spring is longer. I got a new one for my PM9, and it was about 1 full turn longer than what it came with, but they told me to "trim" it by cutting it with a wire cutter if it difficult to fit in. I took about 1/2-2/3 turn off, and it fit fine.

[geogecko]

Are you sure??? Don't think he would have the new version if it is 5 years old...

[geogecko]

I would also like to know how a dirty striker channel would keep the slide from returning to full battery...can the striker actually stick out into the chamber touching the next round as the slide tries to slam shut? Just not understanding the striker channel logic, other than he shouldn't be lubing it.

[topgun1953]

I would also like to know how a dirty striker channel would keep the slide from returning to full battery...can the striker actually stick out into the chamber touching the next round as the slide tries to slam shut? Just not understanding the striker channel logic, other than he shouldn't be lubing it.

A dirty striker channel would not pose this problem that I know of. The thread branched off a little into a discussion of proper striker channel care and maintenance. ... the striker can protrude out of the breech but then it is retracted as the slide comes forward.

[items]

Okay this is probably a dumb question - but why is it recommended to NOT keep the slide locked back - but it IS recommended to leave magazines full of rounds?

[gb6491]

I would also like to know how a dirty striker channel would keep the slide from returning to full battery...can the striker actually stick out into the chamber touching the next round as the slide tries to slam shut? Just not understanding the striker channel logic, other than he shouldn't be lubing it.
The cocking cam picks up the striker before before the slide is completely into battery. Doing this retracts the striker from the breech face and puts some tension on the striker spring. The striker spring is now working against the recoil spring. Normally, the recoil spring has enough strength/momentum that the striker spring tension does not affect the slide going into battery. Dirty/damaged (I had a broken striker spring) striker components can tip the balance in favor of the striker spring (or of the own accord) and stop the slide short of battery.
The broken striker spring in my P380 would bind on it's guide rod and stop the slide short of battery.
Regards,
Greg

[geogecko]

I think the "not keeping the slide locked back" was misinformation, including myself, for not knowing how springs lose tension over time, it's cycling, not compression, that causes springs to eventually lose their normal function.

That is interesting about the striker channel, never even thought of the striker spring preloading affecting the recoil spring like that, but now it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that!

[hardluk1]

Well buy a new recoil spring and see if suddenly starts working well !!

[DM123]

Are you sure??? Don't think he would have the new version if it is 5 years old...

I may be off a year or so. Could be 4 but doubt I've only had it 3 years. I did call Kahr and they said it took the Type 3.

On a side note, I'm glad the info on the striker channel was raised. I tend to over lube :p stuff.

[geogecko]

I may be off a year or so. Could be 4 but doubt I've only had it 3 years. I did call Kahr and they said it took the Type 3.

On a side note, I'm glad the info on the striker channel was raised. I tend to over lube :p stuff.

Sorry, I thought the two different recoil springs were for the P380, but clicking the link, you were talking about the PM9.

[dsk]

I've had magazines loaded for over 5 years with no ill effects. What ruins springs is the continual compression/decompression of use. Being compressed over a long period of time should have no effect on them.

Generally that is true, but the Kahr .380 pistols have springs that fail after a short period of time. I've had to replace the recoil springs after just 300 rounds, and the magazine springs lost power and would no longer engage the slide release after being left loaded for just one month. I keep hearing that Kahr's springs are made by Wolff, but the way they crap out so fast I have a hard time believing it. BTW I replaced all my mag springs with MagGuts kits, and nearly a year later they're still working fine. Nobody makes a better recoil spring though, so I'm still finding myself having to replace them every few hundred rounds.

[ZardozCZ]

Try a new recoil spring. My K9 did about the same, the new spring fixed it and was about 2" longer than the compressed older spring it replaced. Cheap fix, money not wasted if it isn't the solution. I wouldn't store with slide open, but that's just me.

[DM123]

I have recoil springs on the way for my P380. I had to call them as for some reason I could not get them ordered online. The springs were cheaper than the shipping:) I hope this fixes the issue as it is starting to get warm where I live. At 6 ft 170, I just don't have enough body mass in the right places to keep from printing with a t-shirt or tank top and shorts with my PM9.

I did not order new springs and guide rod for my PM9. I put another 60 or so rounds though it without a hitch just to be sure and as is said "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

[dsk]

One of the many weak links with the P/CW380 design is that the recoil springs barely have enough tension to close the slide completely, especially once they wear in and they have to overcome both the friction of feeding a live round and overcoming the striker spring as it gets preloaded. BTW I replaced my recoil springs just 200 rounds ago, and already the inner spring is about 1/2" shorter than the old spring that I replaced after 500 rounds. The old spring was one of the older, weaker ones and the new spring is supposedly one of the newer, stronger ones. If you're a Kahr .380 owner you need to buy a half-dozen each of the inner/outer recoil springs and be prepared to replace them every few hundred rounds. They most definitely will not last a couple thousand rounds like the springs in most other guns will.

[topgun1953]

I have recoil springs on the way for my P380. I had to call them as for some reason I could not get them ordered online. The springs were cheaper than the shipping:) I hope this fixes the issue as it is starting to get warm where I live. At 6 ft 170, I just don't have enough body mass in the right places to keep from printing with a t-shirt or tank top and shorts with my PM9.

I did not order new springs and guide rod for my PM9. I put another 60 or so rounds though it without a hitch just to be sure and as is said "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

They were having issues with their site a couple weeks ago. I was finally able to order some springs online as a 'guest'. My recoil and striker springs are backordered with the end of May as shipping estimate. i wonder if you've gotten a backorder notice yet.

[marshal kane]

. . . The (recoil) springs were cheaper than the shipping . . .
I found this to be true when I attempted to order a spare recoil spring for my P9. I emailed Kahr pointing out that springs, small parts etc. can be shipped in bubble pack insulated envelopes at realistic cost. Kahr acknowledged my response and that was all. I will put at least another 2K rounds through my Kahr then I will order TWO recoil springs if Kahr doesn't double the shipping cost.

[DM123]

They were having issues with their site a couple weeks ago. I was finally able to order some springs online as a 'guest'. My recoil and striker springs are backordered with the end of May as shipping estimate. i wonder if you've gotten a backorder notice yet.

When I ordered mine, there was no mention of a backorder. Since I did it by phone and not online they may not have my e-mail address. I'll give them another week and if I don't receive the, I'll call or e-mail and follow up.

[DM123]

I received my new recoil springs today and tried to install them. I know I'm older, with weaker fingers, and crankier but now I'm definitely crankier. It would take the incredible hulk to get these new springs installed. I have a small vice on my reloading bench. I wrapped the slide with a mouse pad to keep from scratching it and used both hands (fingers). No-go. I compare the new springs with the old ones. The length of the new ones are 2.975"outer, 2.955" inner give or take a bit. The length of the old ones are 2.360" outer, 2.282" inner give or take a bit. There are 14 coils outer, 15 coils inner new ones. 14 coils outer and 17 coils inner for old ones. There seems to be about the same number of coils but the new ones are quite a bit longer and stiffer.

I did some research here. Some recommended using a bolt and nut tightened for a few days. I read at another thread here to cut the springs a bit. Pucker factor is a bit high with cutting my new springs.

Anyone with a P380 that has bought new springs lately? Advice on installing the new springs or how to "break" them in?

By the way, I did find in my research that Midway sells these and other parts for Kahrs.

[gb6491]

I received my new recoil springs today and tried to install them. I know I'm older, with weaker fingers, and crankier but now I'm definitely crankier. It would take the incredible hulk to get these new springs installed. I have a small vice on my reloading bench. I wrapped the slide with a mouse pad to keep from scratching it and used both hands (fingers). No-go. I compare the new springs with the old ones. The length of the new ones are 2.975"outer, 2.955" inner give or take a bit. The length of the old ones are 2.360" outer, 2.282" inner give or take a bit. There are 14 coils outer, 15 coils inner new ones. 14 coils outer and 17 coils inner for old ones. There seems to be about the same number of coils but the new ones are quite a bit longer and stiffer.

I did some research here. Some recommended using a bolt and nut tightened for a few days. I read at another thread here to cut the springs a bit. Pucker factor is a bit high with cutting my new springs.

Anyone with a P380 that has bought new springs lately? Advice on installing the new springs or how to "break" them in?

By the way, I did find in my research that Midway sells these and other parts for Kahrs.
I put new recoil springs in my P380 a while back and they have the same coil count as your new ones.
I wouldn't cut the new ones.
Here's how I install mine:
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As you are using a vise to hold the slide, I'd try getting the springs compressed enough that the guide rod is close to going in, hold it there with one hand, then use a screwdriver with the other hand to wiggle the guide rod into it's hole.

If you want to try giving the springs a set, I'd suggest installing them one at a time and working the slide a bit by hand with each, maybe lock the slid back for a while as well. I'm not sure if it will help at all, but it doesn't cost anything to try.
Regards,
Greg

[DM123]

gb6491,

Well, it was a success:). I think orienting the open end as you suggested made the difference. I fired off a couple mags in my backyard with no issues with my reloads with Bullseye and 100 gr Berry plated RN bullets. My carry ammo is factory Corbon 90 gr. I'll check them in a few hours as well. I'll have to see tomorrow if my fingers recover. I'm definitely not going to remove the barrel for a while.