Question for PM45 owners

[PigPilot]

My PM45 is almost in new condition despite the the date on the receipt. I know pistols should have 250-300 rounds downrange before they are settled in and reliable. My KAHR is 2 1/2 years old and has not had a dozen rounds through it. The fact is, one bullet downrange is pretty much all it can accomplish before dropping the magazine and clearing it. Initially it failed to eject a spent case. After that two - three rounds, it would fire one round from a magazine and jam either because it wouldn't eject or wouldn't feed the new jammed round(not a stove-pipe.) Circumstances didn't allow me to get to this until now. I have an eMail enroute to KAHR and I'd be very surprised if a return to the factory didn't result in a great functioning pistol. I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this problem and what happened to rectify it. My Colts, S&Ws, XDs and even a . . . Jennings .25(It was a long time ago and I was a kid.) functioned well right out of the box. Nothing man-made is -always- 100% perfect and I simply got one of the ones that requires a little factory TLC.
Thanks in advance.

[Bawanna]

Wyntrout had a problematic PM45 that required several trips back to Kahr to get sorted out. Probably the worst example I recall.

There were several instances of the pickup rail needing to be tapered a bit to pick up a round from the magazine.
The next round actually gets stuck up under the rail rather than in front of it.

I'll see if I can find that thread the explained all that.

There's a sticky by Greg, Fixes for the CW 45 or something to that effect that covers a lot of easy to fix issues as well.

[Bawanna]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes

Check out this thread by Greg. Especially under the operational issues sub heading.
Lots of good info in there to digest.

[CJB]

What ammo?
Did you fluff/buff?

[Dbholfo]

Welcome to the forum. A lot of helpful, knowledgeable guys here. Start with the New Member stickies, especially #3 but also #1&2.

[CJB]

There were several instances of the pickup rail needing to be tapered a bit to pick up a round from the magazine.
The next round actually gets stuck up under the rail rather than in front of it.

I'll see if I can find that thread the explained all that.



The word rail threw me for a loop, but I believe what the Colonel is speaking of is the bottom of the breechface, which should have a bevel applied to it at about a 45 degree angle. The bevel itself needn't be large. Less than 1/16 inch will do. But what the bevel affords is easy rise of the cartridge at the top of the magazine into its proper place in front of the breechface. Without the bevel, or with too little, the "rim" of the cartridge case must "snap" past the breechface, and sometimes doesn't quite make it.

[PigPilot]

I finally called KAHR about a May 26 2016 letter re the above. KAHR didn't call or email me so I made the next move. Young chap said no pistol is trustworthy until after 200 fault free rounds. I explained I was aware of that but I couldn't get -6- rounds downrange w/o a jam. Then he said I was not releasing the slide via the release mounted on the left side of the frame. True, I as not. In CopSchool101, the instructor told me (us) to always rack the slide to give it a bit more kinetic energy to load the 1st round from the magazine. No, the PM45 has to use the side lever no matter if it's a P.I.T.A. to use and even then it doesn't always chamber that 1st round out of the magazine. "Foreign" ammo, domestic ammo, it makes no difference. PLEASE, anyone know how to sort this out ?

[Bawanna]

The hand rack is fine if executed properly. Using the slide lock as the release pretty much eliminated operator error. I generally hand rack and we're also trained that the slide lock is not a slide release. One of them fine motor skills to be avoided. But in getting this thing running try the slide lock release.

Once broken in and running the hand rack usually works just fine. Many people ride the slide just a bit and it slows things down. These things are small and stiff and it's not a sign of girlymaness to fail at first.

I broke mine in with Blazer Aluminum case as I recall, just cause I had some. It ran fine with that.
It runs fine with Speer Gold Dot and Federal Hydr Shok as well.

What ammo have you tried. I really don't think ammo alone is the issue, generally they really are not ammo picky except for loads that are just too long as my hand loads were. Shortened just a tad and they work fine.
That also shouldn't be your issue if your shooting factory fodder.

Let's work this out. Be specific about the jams, what things look like, what ammo?
Fail to eject/stove pipe, fail to feed, live round stuck on feed ramp etc.
We'll get to the bottom of this.

[PigPilot]

Thanks for the responses. The http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...sues-and-fixes (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes) link had a lot of great help and I've not given up on the PM. (I bought and had another hip installed so I've been a little lax in getting back to you all.) Ammo I've tried is a combination of foreign and US manufacture: very little of the foreign stuff, just a 'what if' thing. No Blazer, brass case, standard 230 grain ball ammo, (Federal, etc). The live round stuck on feed ramp appears to be, maybe, a cartridge case lip being stuck on the ramp. I did lightly polish the ramp but I don't want to get too wild for fear of voiding the warranty. I have had some, not many but some, fail to eject issues and there's a great image of my problem included in the link noted above. At present, I have 3 magazines, each with an A-Zoom practice cartridge, that I am running through the pistol. There's still no predictability to its function but it'll be a while before I get range time. Thanks again.

[jcannady]

I've had three PM45s. My current one is a few months old. I got rid of the other 2 because I got tired of looking for a flawless brand of Ammo. I got another in June because I really like Kahr's in general and the PM45 is the best small .45 for me (much better than the Springfield XDS). When I got this gun I followed all of Jocko's prep guidance and then broke it in with 250 rounds of mostly WWB. No problems but I don't want that as carry ammo. I bought 12 different types of defense ammo and tried each, cleaning the gun every 50 rounds. I shot golden sabers, gold dots, ranger-Ts, and several others. The only one that I found to be flawless (100 or more rounds fired with zero malfunctions) was the Winchester Win 1911 230 gr (http://www.cabelas.com/product/AUTO-GR-WIN-AUTO-GR/1883715.uts). I was hoping for Ranger-Ts to work but this stuff is still an excellent round. Apparently made for 1911s that were picky with hollow points. It's accurate, and most important for me, flawless.

Jim

[JohnR]

Mine didn't have the pickup bar beveled and failed to feed at first. A few seconds with a dremel and it's shot flawlessly ever since.

[kenemoore]

I have had my DLC PM45 for awhile now, I'm guessing around 900-1200 rounds, I have never had a failure of any kind, with any ammo. I mostly shoot Federal HST, and Golden Saber and Freedom Munitions, but have shot Blazer Brass, Federal American Eagle and WWB too.
Maybe I got lucky.
When I first got it, at about the 250-300 mark, the recoil spring retaining nut came off, called Kahr, they sent a replacement without charge.

[CJB]

In CopSchool101, the instructor told me (us) to always rack the slide to give it a bit more kinetic energy to load the 1st round from the magazine

Your CopsKool instructor was speaking in terms of lore, and not in any sort of remotely practical terms.

In any handgun, examine the distance between the fully rearward slide movement, and the point at which the slide stop locks the slide open. How much travel is there? Does that appreciably effect the recoil spring compression? Is that miniscule extra compression offset by any braking or slow release cause by the fingers? Does the slide actually begin to move forward as the spring force overcomes the friction of the skin on your fingers? At the point where the slide begins to move from your fingers, are you still actually touching the slide, even though the friction has begun to be overcome by the spring force?

So, in precisely measurable terms, yes, that extra few millimeters of slide retraction by hand racking can add a few ounces more of spring tension - assuming you actually did pull the slide backward to the limit of its movement. And, in the greatest preponderance of likelihood, the release of one's fingers is not sudden, or abrupt enough, to not impart a bit of similarly measurable "timed release", if using precise means. In fact, the greater danger is riding the slide forward a bit, which has a marked negative effect.

I'd find another instructor.

Kahr is covering its corporate ass with its various statements - both in terms of the 200 rounds, and in terms of slide release, and in terms of no-lead in the polygonal barrels, etc etc.

Keep in mind, when your PM is new, its recoil spring is gawshawful tight. It needs to be shot, not hand cycled, not held back for weeks.... but shot.... to be flexed fully and rapidly and repeatedly, in order to take its "set". The "set" is that wide, rather flat spot, on its curve of tension vs cycles, during which the recoil spring very slowly degrades past its useful capability.

[wyntrout]

When my PM45's "stripper" wasn't beveled, the stripper's leading edge would come to rest on top of and not behind the base of the top cartridge in the magazine with the slide locked back. Using the slide lock release would not chamber a round. I found that a full rack to the rear would have allowed the stripper to get behind the base of the cartridge and allow a round to be pushed forward to be chambered. The bevel allows the cartridge and magazine top to slide up in front of the stripper.

A properly executed rack will overcome the unbeveled stripper problem, which is only a problem in loading the first round. When firing the pistol, the slide moves all the way to the rear and works fine. Then there is a possibility of "limp wristing"... not holding the pistol firmly enough to allow all of the energy of the slide moving forward to strip a round and chamber it fully. These compact pistols with small slides and strong springs need a firm grip to function properly, especially when chambering the first round.

Wynn :)

[CJB]

Expanding on what Wyntrout said.... (all of which is useful and correct!)

If you lock back the slide on a PM, then insert a loaded magazine, you'll see just a bit of movement, or play, in the magazine. Should that play align the top of the magazine rearward, as can often happen, the top round in the magazine will be depressed by the bottom of the breech face - unless - there is a very slight bevel under the forward edge of the breech face. As was stated, that bevel allow the top round to slip forward a bit (or the whole magazine to tilt forward a bit) and place the cartridge in the proper position for correct feeding.

Easy peasy!