New CT380 jam-o-matic, newbie, help??

[Tobinator]

Got my new CT380 last week, first gun ever. Been shooting about six weeks. I've rented a K9 and a P380 at the range and loved them. Beautiful little pistols, and I'm more accurate with them than any of the other ones I've tried.

Cleaned and lubed it according to the lube diagram as best I could, with Froglube, following the Froglube directions (heat, apply, let it sit a while, wipe off the excess).

I've read the 380s are finicky about ammo, so I bought four different brands of round-nose FMJ ammo to try and headed out to the range. I was using just the one mag that came with the gun.

Attempt #1, Sellier & Bellot. Two FTE out of first 3 rounds, gave up and moved on to the next brand figuring it'd be better.

Attempt #2, Remington UMC - 2 FTF out of 7 rounds. Uh-oh.

Attempt #3, American Eagle - 1 FTE and 1 FTF out of 7 rounds. What the...

Attempt #4, HyperClean - 1 FTF, 2 FTE out of 7 rounds. *cringe*

So basically I couldn't get thru a mag without at least two malfunctions.

Took it home, cleaned, lubed (wiped off less "excess" this time). Tried to get the mag apart to look at it and couldn't get the bottom plate off.

The plan is to go tomorrow and try again. I've read that Kahr doesn't want to even look at it until you're thru the 200 round break-in, but it's pretty painful trying to shoot 200 rounds when it's jamming every second or third round. (Meanwhile, my husband went and rented a Glock 42 and handed it to me. OK, yes, it eats whatever we feed it and goes bang every time, but I'm not ready to give up on my Kahr yet. He thinks I'm nuts to have bought this as my first gun. He's put 4000 rounds thru his Glock 26 so far without a single hiccup.)

Do I have a lemon on my hands? Should I try to get Kahr to look at it now or keep limping along thru the break-in period? Has anyone out there had their first twenty-odd rounds go this badly and then seen it magically smooth out?

Advice appreciated.


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[kenemoore]

Well since you are new to shooting, and the CT is new also, there is a chance you are not holding the pistol securely enough. The other Kahrs were range guns and I assume well broken in. Before you panic, I would recommend getting someone with a little more exposure to small pistols give it a try.

[wyntrout]

These small Kahr pistols with strong springs and lighter slides require a firm grip so that all of the slide's motion is directed at chambering a round instead of moving the whole pistol in your hand and wasting momentum. That might be your problem. It sould get easier to chamber a round as the pistol breaks in, but you really have to firmly grip these little pistols.

[gb6491]

Welcome to the forums:)

As you are having both FTE and FTF, I'd look for things that might affect both.
My first thought would be to dump the Frog Lube and go with grease or oil.
Grip, as you shot the P380 and seem pleased with it, I'm inclined think this is not a factor, but, if the problems persist, perhaps you might have another shooter try their hand with it.
Check the extractor. Look for damage, restricted movement, and proper tension (slide a case into position {shouldn't take a lot of force to do so} and check that the extractor holds it securely)
Check that the recoil spring(s) are installed correctly.

Otherwise, if you could tell us exactly what is happening when the pistol fails to feed or eject (IE, round or case position/attitude, etc.) would be be of help.

In regards to the magazine, are you having trouble depressing the button on the base plate or trouble sliding the plate off while depressing the button?

Regards,
Greg

[Tobinator]

Well since you are new to shooting, and the CT is new also, there is a chance you are not holding the pistol securely enough. The other Kahrs were range guns and I assume well broken in. Before you panic, I would recommend getting someone with a little more exposure to small pistols give it a try.

The P380 we rented jammed for both my husband and myself too, but not quite as much as the new CT380. (I asked the guy behind the counter about it and he basically shrugged like he sees this all the time.)

I know limp-wristing can be a problem but I took pains to hold it securely the way my instructor taught me. For comparison, we both shot a few mags' worth of the American Eagle ammo thru a rented Glock 42 half an hour later (and I shot the last mag one-handed) without a single problem.


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[Tobinator]

For what it's worth, this was with the P380 last week... so I think my grip is decent.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/d8d7bf6821f4b11f6ee36af64d01d00f.jpg


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[Tobinator]

Welcome to the forums:)

Thanks!


As you are having both FTE and FTF, I'd look for things that might affect both.
My first thought would be to dump the Frog Lube and go with grease or oil.

I was thinking about that too but was concerned I couldn't get the Frog Lube out sufficiently without breaking down the gun further than the basic disassembly--I've read FL mixed with petroleum products really gunks things up... So figured I would give it one more try with the FL.


Grip, as you shot the P380 and seem pleased with it, I'm inclined think this is not a factor, but, if the problems persist, perhaps you might have another shooter try their hand with it.
Check the extractor. Look for damage, restricted movement, and proper tension (slide a case into position {shouldn't take a lot of force to do so} and check that the extractor holds it securely)
Check that the recoil spring(s) are installed correctly.

Unfortunately I haven't a clue how to check the extractor... basic disassembly for cleaning has been my only exposure to the parts of the gun. It kinda sucks being new at this and facing a problem that would benefit from some know-how. For the recoil springs, I had the impression the closed end was supposed to be against the flange (the manual included with my gun omitted the CT series, so I'm extrapolating) but both ends of both springs appear to be closed.


Otherwise, if you could tell us exactly what is happening when the pistol fails to feed or eject (IE, round or case position/attitude, etc.) would be be of help.

In regards to the magazine, are you having trouble depressing the button on the base plate or trouble sliding the plate off while depressing the button?

I'm going to take more detailed notes tomorrow... for the magazine I was unable to slide off the plate despite depressing the button. That plate budged less than a millimeter and stopped.

Thanks, I appreciate the help!



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[kwh]

I did not have as much trouble as you, but yes my CW380 had feeding failures fairly frequently for the first 50 rounds or so. Since you also had jams on the rented P380 I would continue to work your grip. This is in addition to the above advice. The tiny pistols are different. I found out that a limp wrist and a straight wrist are not the same thing. On my tiny Kahr I must be sure my wrist is absolutely straight to give resistance to the slide. A tight grip did not help so much as a straight wrist did. Yes, you will find the small Kahr more likely to have problems with jams than a larger pistol, and it can be a difficult learning curve. Yes, it is a bummer to have to use up expensive ammo ammo, but once broken in and functional, there is no finer small .380. Accurate, with less perceived recoil and a sweet trigger pull. Please continue to report back in. Smart people here will help you figure out if it is the gun and ammo or the shooter.
The P380 we rented jammed for both my husband and myself too, but not quite as much as the new CT380. (I asked the guy behind the counter about it and he basically shrugged like he sees this all the time.)

I know limp-wristing can be a problem but I took pains to hold it securely the way my instructor taught me. For comparison, we both shot a few mags' worth of the American Eagle ammo thru a rented Glock 42 half an hour later (and I shot the last mag one-handed) without a single problem.


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[Alfonse]

You are a great shot, with good aim. That doesn't mean your grip is necessarily right though.

Not all, but a majority of the problems with these little pistols are with grip. Even though I had many thousands of rounds through other Kahrs, when I purchased a CW380 I had the same type of problems you are seeing. The little CW380 was actually bouncing around in the palm of my large hands. I had to change the way I held the pistol, and the problems vanished.

Welcome to the forum! There are other causes and another similar thread going right now talks about lots of them: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?29236-Feed-Failures-with-new-Kahr-CW380

Don't worry, it will get sorted.


For what it's worth, this was with the P380 last week... so I think my grip is decent.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160626/d8d7bf6821f4b11f6ee36af64d01d00f.jpg


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[Bobshouse]

Welcome to the site! The K9 and P380 rentals at the range is probably past the break in :). Yours will get there, just be patient, and have lots of ammo! I agree with the others, Froglube might be a good lubricant, but you need to grease up your Kahr, especially for the breakin. I use a product called superlube synthetic grease. Follow the lube diagram on this site. I would use round nose ammo and give it a good break in, and keep going from there.

You purchased the gun new, right?

[Tobinator]

I found out that a limp wrist and a straight wrist are not the same thing. On my tiny Kahr I must be sure my wrist is absolutely straight to give resistance to the slide. A tight grip did not help so much as a straight wrist did. Yes, you will find the small Kahr more likely to have problems with jams than a larger pistol, and it can be a difficult learning curve. Yes, it is a bummer to have to use up expensive ammo ammo, but once broken in and functional, there is no finer small .380. Accurate, with less perceived recoil and a sweet trigger pull. Please continue to report back in. Smart people here will help you figure out if it is the gun and ammo or the shooter.

Interesting point. I've been careful to keep my wrist straight when shooting 9mm (I was having some recoil issues and wanted to make sure the recoil went into my forearm instead of my thumb joint) but it's possible I got lax about that with the 380. I'll keep an eye on that tomorrow and report back.



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[Tobinator]

You are a great shot, with good aim. That doesn't mean your grip is necessarily right though.

Not all, but a majority of the problems with these little pistols are with grip. Even though I had many thousands of rounds through other Kahrs, when I purchased a CW380 I had the same type of problems you are seeing. The little CW380 was actually bouncing around in the palm of my large hands. I had to change the way I held the pistol, and the problems vanished.

Welcome to the forum! There are other causes and another similar thread going right now talks about lots of them: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?29236-Feed-Failures-with-new-Kahr-CW380

Don't worry, it will get sorted.

Thanks for the kind words. When I posted that I kind of assumed that if my grip were loose the shots would've been all over the place, but maybe not... As you pointed out, grip and aim are two different things. I did manage to get six shots off without a FTF that time, at least. :)

How did you change your grip, can you describe it? My hands aren't that big, so I don't think that's my issue, but who knows...

I'll check out that other thread. Thanks!




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[Tobinator]

Welcome to the site! The K9 and P380 rentals at the range is probably past the break in :). Yours will get there, just be patient, and have lots of ammo! I agree with the others, Froglube might be a good lubricant, but you need to grease up your Kahr, especially for the breakin. I use a product called superlube synthetic grease. Follow the lube diagram on this site. I would use round nose ammo and give it a good break in, and keep going from there.

You purchased the gun new, right?

Yes—I didn't want to risk buying a used gun because I wouldn't know what to look for when checking it over.

I tried leaving the gun wetter after this cleaning, but if the results are still poor tomorrow I'll clean off the FL and borrow some regular gun oil from my husband (or should I actually go and buy grease?).



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[kwh]

Oil should be fine for the break-in. I would recommend cleaning after every 30 rounds. In the early,early days, Kahr recommended a bullet with a pointed nose profile over a flat nose.

[ZardozCZ]

I have been so close to getting a Kahr 380 so many times, but I keep reading threads like these and am grateful I haven't. Instead I have a CM9, a K9, and lately an MK9 and have great results with each of them.

I did pick up a Bersa Thunder 380 and a CZ83 in 380 to see which the girlfriend preferred, but kept the CZ83 for myself. It's about the size of the G26 but does it perform flawlessly for me! It is likely my most accurate center fire pistol, especially with fast follow up shots. Some find it snappy but it's gentle in my hands. If you're sticking with 380, you might give one a try. 12+1 rounds is a plus for self defense, and Lehigh extreme penetrators/defenders are a potent round for self defense as well.

I'm still tempted to try a Kahr 380 but I just take the CZ to the range and fall in love with it all over again (not really but you get my drift).

My Kahr 9s fill their roll well too.

[nmkahrshooter]

Sorry to hear about your problem. As I remember the CT line is not a small gun. I used Magtec FMJ for break in with no problems on CT9, CT45, and CW380. Also I do not use frog lube and that might be an issue. I just use gun oil- no grease! I do not think that you are having a holding problem. When you break down your gun to clean spray off with non-clorine brake cleaner and lube it up. Hope this works for you. I know it did for mine.

[RolandD]

Although it would be unlikely, you may have selected four brands of ammo that won't run well for breaking in the CT380. I've heard of problems with S&B and Am Eagle. Not sure about the others. I've had good luck with Freedom Munitions 100gr FMJ Flat point, Federal Champion 95gr FMJ, and Perfecta 95gr FMJ in our CT380.

Don't waste self defense ammo until you are completely through the break in. Follow all the instructions in the New Kahr Prep (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1521-Proper-prep-of-a-new-kahr) thread. Rack the slide over and over, 200 or 300 times. It's cheaper than ammo and will help build muscles and muscle memory. Experiment with your grip. It's still easy to have issues, even though it's larger than the CW380. Keep working at it. When new, an slightly under-powered round or a little less pressure resisting recoil will cause the problems you are having. Good luck and keep us updated.

[Alfonse]

Thanks for the kind words. When I posted that I kind of assumed that if my grip were loose the shots would've been all over the place, but maybe not... As you pointed out, grip and aim are two different things. I did manage to get six shots off without a FTF that time, at least. :)

How did you change your grip, can you describe it? My hands aren't that big, so I don't think that's my issue, but who knows...

I'll check out that other thread. Thanks!




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To be honest, I can't quite remember how I used to grip it. However, now I have my right hand much more relaxed, which helps with the trigger, and my left hand is doing most of the work keeping the grip up against my right palm. The pistol, even when I was really squeezing with my right hand (very tiring and difficult to work the trigger), could kind of rattle around in my palm before. Without the pistol in my hand, I can't even tell you which part of my index finger is working the trigger. But, it is all well practiced and I don't have to think about it when I shoot the CW380.

I have long fingers too, so it is probably a bit odd to those with normal sized hands, the way I have to shoot the CW380 and really every Kahr to some extent.

Changing the way I gripped the pistol made all the difference in how it feeds and improved my accuracy to boot. Although, seeing your target I already made a mental note to never irritate you! :)

[Tobinator]

To be honest, I can't quite remember how I used to grip it. However, now I have my right hand much more relaxed, which helps with the trigger, and my left hand is doing most of the work keeping the grip up against my right palm. The pistol, even when I was really squeezing with my right hand (very tiring and difficult to work the trigger), could kind of rattle around in my palm before. Without the pistol in my hand, I can't even tell you which part of my index finger is working the trigger. But, it is all well practiced and I don't have to think about it when I shoot the CW380.

Interesting! I've been working on using my support hand better--I can see how that could be more effective than just trying to grip the pistol harder with my right hand. Hopefully eventually I'll reach that point where it's second nature. I'm still going into every range session with a mental list of things to try and remember to do.


Changing the way I gripped the pistol made all the difference in how it feeds and improved my accuracy to boot. Although, seeing your target I already made a mental note to never irritate you! :)

LOL! I feel sheepish to have posted that target; aim isn't even relevant to the whole limp wristing issue. Truth be told, it's way better than a lot of my other targets, I was super happy about it, and my friends and family don't know I shoot yet so I can't really post it on Facebook. So I had this goofy urge to post it. :)


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[Bills1873]

Refreshing to see a woman enthusiastic about the need to be proficient with a self defense weapon! These fellas on here can be a great help in solving problems related to these fine little pistols.

[gb6491]

....LOL! I feel sheepish to have posted that target; aim isn't even relevant to the whole limp wristing issue. Truth be told, it's way better than a lot of my other targets, I was super happy about it, and my friends and family don't know I shoot yet so I can't really post it on Facebook. So I had this goofy urge to post it. :)

No need to feel sheepish about that target...that's good shooting no matter how you held the firearm.
If it was done with a revolver there probably wouldn't even be any discussion about grip.
Regards,
Greg

BTW, you can clean a field stripped gun well enough to remove the Frog Lube. I used that stuff once and my shotgun failed to cycle the first few shots during the next morning's hunt. Following a quick wipe down with a paper towel and some 10-30w oil from the dip stick, I again had a functioning shotgun.

[Tobinator]

No need to feel sheepish about that target...that's good shooting no matter how you held the firearm.
If it was done with a revolver there probably wouldn't even be any discussion about grip.
Regards,
Greg

BTW, you can clean a field stripped gun well enough to remove the Frog Lube. I used that stuff once and my shotgun failed to cycle the first few shots during the next morning's hunt. Following a quick wipe down with a paper towel and some 10-30w oil from the dip stick, I again had a functioning shotgun.

Thanks!

Good to know about removing the FL... Tomorrow I'll be trying again and taking better notes, and if it's still not working, I can try switching to oil. I do like the idea of Frog Lube and it kind of makes sense (like seasoning a cast iron skillet) but at this point I should be trying to remove variables from the mix.


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[gb6491]

I still use oil in my seasoned cast iron;):):hippie:
Good fortune to you tomorrow.
Regards,
Greg

[b4uqzme]

Welcome,

Just in case you find this helpful, this video was the "aha" moment for me. It focuses a lot on your support hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0HkjXpQBxc

I also agree that the frog lube should wait for now. A good cleaning and simple lube with gun oil should be fine for your break-in. Once you get the gun running 100%, you can again try the frog lube. Kahrs are tight guns so any lube that takes up space can also cause problems. I ditched using grease on the rails for that very reason. I lube only with RemOil. I clean and lube before I put the gun away. Then a light drop on each rail before I go shooting is all the re-application necessary. That has proven most successful.

Good luck.

[Tobinator]

I still use oil in my seasoned cast iron;):):hippie:
Good fortune to you tomorrow.
Regards,
Greg

Good point! :) I think the first time I applied the FrogLube I took that analogy a little too literally and wiped off too much of the stuff.


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[Tobinator]

Welcome,

Just in case you find this helpful, this video was the "aha" moment for me. It focuses a lot on your support hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0HkjXpQBxc

I also agree that the frog lube should wait for now. A good cleaning and simple lube with gun oil should be fine for your break-in. Once you get the gun running 100%, you can again try the frog lube. Kahrs are tight guns so any lube that takes up space can also cause problems. I ditched using grease on the rails for that very reason. I lube only with RemOil. I clean and lube before I put the gun away. Then a light drop on each rail before I go shooting is all the re-application necessary. That has proven most successful.

Good luck.

Thanks for the video and tips! That's a little different support-hand technique from what I was taught, I'll have to experiment with that. Interesting.


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[Tobinator]

So, an update...

First of all, thank you all for your very helpful advice!

So I went to the range. I can think of four possible explanations for today's results and I have no idea which one(s) were the biggest factor.

1. I focused extra-hard on a straight wrist and firm grip (although I think I relaxed a little after a few successful mags)
2. When I cleaned and lubed the pistol yesterday, I left more lube on there.
3. The gun is evidently showing improvement as the break-in period progresses.
4. Gremlins broke into the apartment, stole my little lemon and replaced it with a mostly functional pistol. :P

I brought the rest of the ammo that the CT380 barfed on last time.

Shot five mags of Remington UMC. It locked back prematurely after the third round but was otherwise solid.

Five mags of Sellier & Bellot. Not a hiccup.

Three mags of HyperClean. Either it still doesn't care for HyperClean or it was getting dirty by that point; first mag was fine, second and third mag had FTFs at rounds 1 and 6 respectively.

A couple more mags of Remington with two more FTFs and one premature lockback. I decided to call it a day.

No FTEs. FTFs all looked basically like this.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/0720bd434fed2a9dce2b6518db6d7337.jpg

I was not optimistic going in there today, so this was a happy surprise. Not perfect, but hopefully the gun will continue to work the kinks out as break-in continues. I'd estimate I'm at about 125 rounds now.


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[berettabone]

I use grease on the rails of another of my firearms, but never on my Kahr. I also use Rem oil.................it seems to work well on all of my firearms. Personally, I would use the $$$$$$$$$$ I saved by using oil instead of FL, to purchase more ammo. Good shooting..................it's very refreshing to have a female on board. My wife is going for her CCL the 16th. Can't be more happy. She shoots a revolver, no frog lube:)

[Tobinator]

I use grease on the rails of another of my firearms, but never on my Kahr. I also use Rem oil.................it seems to work well on all of my firearms. Personally, I would use the $$$$$$$$$$ I saved by using oil instead of FL, to purchase more ammo. Good shooting..................it's very refreshing to have a female on board. My wife is going for her CCL the 16th. Can't be more happy. She shoots a revolver, no frog lube:)

Thank you! Good to be here. Congrats to your wife! I haven't started that process yet. We can carry in AZ even without it, but I would rather get more training under my belt before carrying in public.

The FrogLube seems to go a long way--the kit I bought will last me months at the rate I'm using it... I appreciate the minty smell and nontoxicity, and my pistol is acting up much less now, so I'll probably stay with FL for now. :)


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[gb6491]

Thank you! Good to be here. Congrats to your wife! I haven't started that process yet. We can carry in AZ even without it, but I would rather get more training under my belt before carrying in public.

The FrogLube seems to go a long way--the kit I bought will last me months at the rate I'm using it... I appreciate the minty smell and nontoxicity, and my pistol is acting up much less now, so I'll probably stay with FL for now. :)


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Check out The Well Armed Woman (http://thewellarmedwoman.com/)
We have a fairly active TWAW Shooting Chapter here in Yuma, perhaps there is one near you: https://twawshootingchapters.org/chapter/locate/results?country_id=223&zone_id=3616
Regards,
Greg

[b4uqzme]

RE: your picture.

Are you familiar with a "plunk test"? Remove the barrel from the slide and drop examples of each type ammo into the chamber to see if they seat fully. They should also drop free using only gravity. That will tell you if the ammo you've chosen is compatible with your firearm. Discontinue using any that doesn't fit. Otherwise it sounds like your break-in is progressing nicely. I suspect the combination of the pistol breaking in and your grip practice will cure all of your issues.

[Tobinator]

Check out The Well Armed Woman (http://thewellarmedwoman.com/)
We have a fairly active TWAW Shooting Chapter here in Yuma, perhaps there is one near you: https://twawshootingchapters.org/chapter/locate/results?country_id=223&zone_id=3616
Regards,
Greg

Cool! There is an east valley chapter near where we are. The range they meet at also has a separate women's group that meets twice a month. Lots of good options.


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[Tobinator]

RE: your picture.

Are you familiar with a "plunk test"? Remove the barrel from the slide and drop examples of each type ammo into the chamber to see if they seat fully. They should also drop free using only gravity. That will tell you if the ammo you've chosen is compatible with your firearm. Discontinue using any that doesn't fit. Otherwise it sounds like your break-in is progressing nicely. I suspect the combination of the pistol breaking in and your grip practice will cure all of your issues.

Cool, I'll try that. I'm surprised there could be that much variation.



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[CharlieR]

I have had my best luck with the following ammo in my P380 and CT380:

1) PMC Bronze FMJ
2) PriviPartizan (PPU) FMJ
3) Remington UMC FMJ
4) Speer Gold Dot GDHP

I have had feeding problems with many other brands. And mine is anything but new. Probably 2000+ rounds in the P380, 500+ in the CT380.

[Tobinator]

Update... One FTF early on in yesterday's range trip and then smooth sailing until I'd gone through maybe 70 rounds; then a FTRB and a series of FTFs. Either it didn't like the box of Magtech ammo I had switched over to or the gun acts up when dirty.

I had similar problems on the last trip. Shouldn't this gun be able to shoot more than 70 rounds before starting to jam every other round? Granted, in a self-defense scenario I wouldn't need to shoot 70+ rounds, but it makes range trips a little short and frustrating. Does this improve as break-in continues? At this point I'm at or near the 200-round mark overall.

My husband is still pushing me to trade it in on a Glock 42, which "just worked" without a single problem when we rented one. Not ready to declare defeat yet...

[nmkahrshooter]

Keep it for a little longer. Maybe after 200 rds if its still doing it send it back to Kahr. I had a G42 for 30 days, talk about a jam 0 matic! I was so sick of it I got rid of it and purchased the Kahr CW 380! A Glock should never do what that pistol did. Goes to show you anybody can build a lemon. Good luck

[b4uqzme]

^^^ Kahrs are designed for carry and close quarters self defense. So extended range time might be a bit more of a challenge compared to some other pistols. A little dirt and some fatigue can easily cause the failures you describe. It will get better with time and so will you!

[Tobinator]

Thanks guys. Hanging in there... I do like this little gun. Bought a bore snake thinking I could clean the barrel at the range but it got stuck (husband managed to get it unstuck for me)... Wonder if some CLP on a Q-tip applied to the feed ramp would buy me a little more range time.

Very interesting to hear about the G42. The rental we had was flawless, shot every brand of ammo I had, one-handed, etc., and I assumed that's typical for a Glock. My husband keeps urging me to trade in. Good point that no brand is immune to malfunctions.

[berettabone]

Don't ever be swayed by the Gluck hype....................................your better off not going to the dark side...................................

[Alfonse]

Glock had lots of problems with the 42. They are on the third magazine design I believe. They have worked diligently to fix problems, but this will give you a flavor of what it was like:

http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/15882/more-glock-42-problems-reported/

[Tobinator]

Wow—good to know.


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[Tobinator]

Update. About 85 rounds thru it today with several FTRB but not other malfunctions. Trying to figure out what's causing that and whether to send it in. Total rounds now are over 200 (i.e., thru the recommended break-in period).

[Papersniper]

Update. About 85 rounds thru it today with several FTRB but not other malfunctions. Trying to figure out what's causing that and whether to send it in. Total rounds now are over 200 (i.e., thru the recommended break-in period).

Please let us know how it works for you............I am thinking of getting one for my wife.

[Tobinator]

Please let us know how it works for you............I am thinking of getting one for my wife.

I love it other than the malfunctions :/ ... It's light and fits my hand nicely (I put a Hogue Handall Jr grip on it). I know some people get theirs and have zero problems with it, it seems to be a little bit luck-of-the-draw. If the FTRBs continue I may send it to Kahr for warranty repair after my CCW class later this month (I want to use it for the live fire part and at this point it's reliable enough for that, but not to actually carry).


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[Papersniper]

Keep it for a little longer. Maybe after 200 rds if its still doing it send it back to Kahr. I had a G42 for 30 days, talk about a jam 0 matic! I was so sick of it I got rid of it and purchased the Kahr CW 380! A Glock should never do what that pistol did. Goes to show you anybody can build a lemon. Good luck

Have you had enough experience with the CW380 compared to the Glock 42? I am considering a Kahr 380 and trying to decide which, the CT or CW 380. I know all about the size issues, I'm more interested in the functioning, reliability, etc.

I own a Glock 42 and my experience with it has been 100% good. Odd how some guns work for us and others don't.

[Papersniper]

Update. About 85 rounds thru it today with several FTRB but not other malfunctions. Trying to figure out what's causing that and whether to send it in. Total rounds now are over 200 (i.e., thru the recommended break-in period).

Dumb question, but is the chamber getting dirty? Have you tried the "plunk test"? If ammo shows reluctance to drop into the chamber I'd try something else. Sorry to hear you've had problems with your CT380.....I am considering getting a Kahr 380 and trying to decide which one. Prices on them are terrific right now!

[Tobinator]

Dumb question, but is the chamber getting dirty? Have you tried the "plunk test"? If ammo shows reluctance to drop into the chamber I'd try something else. Sorry to hear you've had problems with your CT380.....I am considering getting a Kahr 380 and trying to decide which one. Prices on them are terrific right now!

I think I had this happen at least once early in the session before the chamber was dirty, although the problems definitely seem to crop up after 50+ rounds. Have not tried the plunk test, but I'm using only factory ammo, mostly the brand that's had the fewest problems in my gun so far (S&B).


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[mlw_hou]

Don't know if this helps, but I went to break in my CT380 today and using PMC Bronze (90gr), I couldn't get through 5 rounds without some type of failure. I switched to Sig Sauer "Elite Performance" (100gr) and HERTERS (95gr) (Cabela's house brand) and had zero issues with the next 200 rounds.

I've seen several ammo recommendations on the forum - have you tried something known to work in other's gun?

When I stripped and cleaned the sucker it was really really dirty ... could be I left it too "wet" for the range session, but I was surprised.

[dannyeller]

Tobinator, The CT380 has a very strong double recoil spring that needs quite a bit of breaking in. I too had some malfunctions the first several boxes of ammo I fired and with 25 years in the Army, 5 years as a Reserve Deputy and with over 20 years competing my shooting grip was not the problem. But after a couple of hundred rounds it now feeds everything and my wife and daughter can now rack the slide. I occasionally teach people to shoot and I give them a choice of a CT380, J Frame .38 Revolver, a SW686 revolver and a Glock 17 to qualify with after having them fired about ten rounds through each. Surprising to me they all pick the little CT380. To qualify I would have gone with the SW686 but they just like this little thing and it is a great shooter. Because I the CT380 as one of my demos it has about 800-1000 rounds through it so it is well broken in and running smooth with no jams that I can remember since my second shooting session with it. I have numerous firearms to carry to include a beautiful Kahr MK40 magnaported and customized by Robar with the checkered wood grips. I bought this for my wife but she just could not rack the slide when it was new so she kept carrying her SW642 revolver. I was so happy with the CT380 that I started carrying it daily. But now that my wife can rack the slide on it I'm going to have a CT Laser put on it and have it dipped in a Muddy Girl Camo and give it to her for Christmas. Its 3.5 ounces lighter that her SW642 but with 3 more rounds at the ready than her revolver. With Underwood Extreme Defense +Ps it hits very hard but is still a soft shooter with a very effective round. BTW +Ps really make this little gun sing. I like this little gun so much that I went and bought 3 more of them. Two are for my twin kids who turn 21 6 weeks after Christmas and one is for me. Now if I can just get about a 1000 rounds of good .380 ACP for the break ins by Christmas I'll have this thing worked out.

[Bluehawk]

My wife and I both have the same problems with our CT-380 even though it has 500 rounds through it now. Haven't tried any defensive rounds in it as yet - would like to see more reliability with FMJ ammo first. Will try adding a grip sleeve for enhanced grip. No troubles like this with my CM-9.

[spazzwarr]

dannyelle is right-on about the double recoil spring. There is a lot "going on" there when the cartridge fires and the spring(s) go into action. Maybe, I have been extremely lucky with my five kahrs (CW380, PM9, PM40, P45 & TP45), as I have only had one instance with a few repeated FTEs and FTGBs. These were all with the PM40. Those who have shot the PM40 know that this is a snappy little pistol. In my opinion, the PM40 is very reactive to even a hint of limp wristing. I was fairly sure I did not limp wrist my PM40 when it had the hiccups.

I searched this forum and the other Kahr forum. I believe it was this forum I found the solution. It was the double coil recoil spring. Someone had the same problem with a model that has the double recoil spring setup. He found that the double springs in his Kahr were binding and hanging-up occasionally on the guide rods. This normally smoothes out as rounds fired increases. But you can hurry it along. He took some type of multi-purpose EP grease and thinly coated both guide rods. It worked for him. I used Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 and thinly coated both guide rods. Hand racked the slide about a hundred times and went to the range. Over a period of two days I shot 150 rounds and experienced zero problems or issues. This may not work for you. All I can say is this little PM40 is now one of my favorite Kahrs and is in every day carry rotation with my PM9. Good luck with your Kahr(s). I hope they will smoothe out for you.

[TominCA]

Hi - I have several p380's (have 3 had 4 at one time) - The big variable is ammo! Your ammo list is like a list of everything that doesn't usually work well. (all these little p380's are sensitive to ammo, but there is no one good choice) Generally they prefer "botique ammo" at about $1 a shot but some fmj works okay. Light weight, high veloivty projectiles work good in many guns. Here is my list of choices:

Ruger ARX
Critical Defennse
Glaser Powerball
Grizzly Extreme
Blazer Brass 95 fmj
PMC 90 g FMJ (really!)


Lots of oil, keep the springs changed. When the slide stops locking back, its the magazine spring. Take it out and stretch it a little.

Hope htis helps.

[SmittyJonz]

I just picked up a CT380 Thursday 11-3-2016, for my Daughter's first gun. I put 300 rounds of Brass FMJ thru it today - 3 boxes of Browning Court and 3 Boxes of Monarch and 25 rounds of Federal HST hollow points. ZERO Issues. Accurate. Slide locked back after last round every time. The Browning Court shot good but is DIRTY. So far very pleased. She couldn't rack the slide out of the box- seems easier now.I will clean and lube it and will put another 200 rounds thru it and another clean n lube before she gets it. I think she will be able to rack it by then. It was the CT380 or a Glock 42 for her and I got the Kahr for $94 less - total take home price.
P.S. that is my wife's Pink Highlighted TCP - Mines all Black........

First 50 rounds at 5 yards.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u645/bobjones79/4B7057F9-CAE8-4C86-B2E5-217C038D127D_zpswu4rfemy.jpg (http://s1326.photobucket.com/user/bobjones79/media/4B7057F9-CAE8-4C86-B2E5-217C038D127D_zpswu4rfemy.jpg.html)

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u645/bobjones79/5A61B015-850D-492F-B8F7-CA8C725FD047_zpslu2zxkfl.jpg (http://s1326.photobucket.com/user/bobjones79/media/5A61B015-850D-492F-B8F7-CA8C725FD047_zpslu2zxkfl.jpg.html)

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u645/bobjones79/31A26ECF-D268-45C3-9F71-310CBBCF43C9_zpskycikphc.jpg (http://s1326.photobucket.com/user/bobjones79/media/31A26ECF-D268-45C3-9F71-310CBBCF43C9_zpskycikphc.jpg.html)

[SmittyJonz]

We will most likely put Talon Rubber Grips on it. I have them on most of my pistols. :cool:

[dannyeller]

Tobinator,

I have three of CT380s. The last two were the TU package versions. One of them had exactly the same type of malfunctions as you described. After giving up with all the failures to feed after about a 100 rounds and a field disassembly then generous lube with no improvement I turned on my flashlight and gave it a close look as it was repeatedly 2 or 3 times per magazine failing to fully load a round while firing (see pictures). The striker (firing pin) would stay out protruding out of the breachface and block the following round from fully loading.

The reason was NOT the ammo. I used the same ammo during the same range session in a second identical model CT380 (one was for my son and the other my daughter's). My son's CT380TU went through 200 rounds with only two malfunctions, failure to go completely into battery (didn't quite close on chambering). That occurred during the last 50 rounds of a 200 round break-in session. The gun was brand new and got hot and dirty which explains such a malfunction. I have a 3rd standard model CT380 which I have used when training my clients for their CCWs. It has well over 2000 rounds through it and although it had a few hick-ups during the first 200 rounds it fires everything BUT PERFECTA ammo. There is only one .380 I've tried that will shoot that stuff without malfunctioning several times every magazine and that was my fathers very old LLAMA .380.

So check to see if the striker is forward and hangs up on the rim of the cartridge being loaded as seen in the attached pictures. If it is and you were not using PERFECTA ammo, it needs to go back to Kahr. One of mine is there now for the reason discussed above and I just got off the phone with them to go over the issue.

v/r
Danny
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14550&stc=1

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14534&stc=1http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14535&stc=1

Note that the following photo is from an identical CT380TU that fired over 200 rounds with on two failures to go into battery. The ammo used was the same as that used for the previous CT380TU with ammo even coming out of the same boxes. Yet after being fully racked and the striker reset the striker is still forward when almost fully back into battery. This seems to be a design flaw. The cocking cam needs to engage the striker much earlier which would pull the striker back well before the round being loaded will be sliding up the breach-face. I have no idea why this CT380 fired so well when the other CT380TU the rim of the round would hang up on the protruding striker several times with each magazine of ammo fired.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14551&stc=1

[dannyeller]

BTW, Sellier & Bellot is very similar to the JAM INDUCING PERFECTA ammo. That ammo is an issue with several .380s and especially those like the CT380 that are made to be pretty tight fitting. They may work after a considerable amount of break-in, but warning, one of my CT380s has way over 2000 rounds through it and both PERFECTA and Sellier & Bellot still cause malfunctions. So I would say my wife's CT380 which I also use to train clients on shooting semi-autos is pretty much broke in.

[TominCA]

I use Critical Defense and Ruger ARX as my "Test Standard" ammo for the P380 (no CW380 here in CA) I'm not much of a gunsmith but that protruding firing pin on feeding looks like either a broken striker or weak load not allowing the slide to move fully to the rear, or very stiff recoil spring - try a peppier load. Here is my cleaning routine after each use:

1) field strip
2) Blow out striker channel through hole in slide and work striker with thumb a few times- I use a gun cleaner for this
3) Scrub entire frame and slide with CLP on brush
4) Carefully wipe slide rails with patch on toothpick
5) Wipe gun clean (remove CLP)
6)Wire brush and patch bore (CLP)
7) Oil rails, barrel, plastic rails etc (see forum oil diagram in sticky section) I use slip 2000 but anything will work
8) Place tiny tiny (needle oilier) drop on striker and work back & forth a few times
9) reassemble gun and rack slide a few times.
Good to go

I have changed all my magazine springs to the Keltec springs from Wolff - They are for the little keltec 380 (different gun) but are more powerful and work fine for me!


I have 3 other Kahrs (not 380) and they require almost no care and are not ammo sensitive

Hope this helps!

[SgtStone]

There are so many good replies on cleaning & ammunition, I have just one suggestion for the original poster to help track shots fired.

I buy several ruled composition books during going-back-to-school sales. I dedicate one notebook to shooting. The first few pages hold info about my current firearms including serial numbers. I keep contact info such as this forum in the back. The bulk of the pages are used to record each range trip -- date, temperature, wind, etc. -- & subsequent cleaning. Each firearm has a paragraph where I count shots usually by counting magazines fired. It's real easy to update the journal each time I reload or take a break. Plus I jot down any problems or changes.

At the end of the day I add the shots fired and update the total round count for each active firearm. While not exact, I have a close estimate of shots fired.

Started this method to track break in but find it valuable to keep track of usage & maintenance issues. I keep the notebook in my ammo bag. I also keep an updated inventory of ammunition by caliber & bullet weight/type. But even if you just make a little mark for each mag you fire, you'll have a record of rounds fired. "Course you can avoid paper & use a text file or spread-sheet on your phone. I just like the tough composition notebooks for the range.

Typical entry"
"Kahr CM9 10:30 2x7-round mags fired, @5yards, no problems // reloaded w/ Geco 124 grn FMJ // 11:15 Left hand: 2x7round mags fired, 1 FTF last round...

I use my own short-hand taking notes. Hope this helps new shooters.

[RolandD]

There are so many good replies on cleaning & ammunition, I have just one suggestion for the original poster to help track shots fired.

I buy several ruled composition books during going-back-to-school sales. I dedicate one notebook to shooting. The first few pages hold info about my current firearms including serial numbers. I keep contact info such as this forum in the back. The bulk of the pages are used to record each range trip -- date, temperature, wind, etc. -- & subsequent cleaning. Each firearm has a paragraph where I count shots usually by counting magazines fired. It's real easy to update the journal each time I reload or take a break. Plus I jot down any problems or changes.

At the end of the day I add the shots fired and update the total round count for each active firearm. While not exact, I have a close estimate of shots fired.

Started this method to track break in but find it valuable to keep track of usage & maintenance issues. I keep the notebook in my ammo bag. I also keep an updated inventory of ammunition by caliber & bullet weight/type. But even if you just make a little mark for each mag you fire, you'll have a record of rounds fired. "Course you can avoid paper & use a text file or spread-sheet on your phone. I just like the tough composition notebooks for the range.

Typical entry"
"Kahr CM9 10:30 2x7-round mags fired, @5yards, no problems // reloaded w/ Geco 124 grn FMJ // 11:15 Left hand: 2x7round mags fired, 1 FTF last round...

I use my own short-hand taking notes. Hope this helps new shooters.

I have a extra-small Moleskine Volant notebook as a log for each of my handguns. I make entries for every time I fire, clean, or modify them.