What happened with Costile?

[dustnchips]

So, what went wrong? He had a CCL and a gun. He evidently told the officer that. He ended up shot anyway. Did the officer say he needed to see ID and Costile reached for it before the officer was ready and the officer panicked and shot him? What a shame this happened to guy that was evidently just an average citizen carrying legally. We need to learn from this so we don't end up dead to.

[Bawanna]

This reinforces my opinion that if your carrying a gun you don't mention it unless asked if you have one.
Some states require you to advise if your stopped.
Sounds like he was asked for ID, in the process of getting his fat wallet (per girlfriend) out he said he had a gun. She quickly advised that he had a permit for it.
Officer then went into defense mode and asked to see/raise hands. Guy wasn't quick enough.

Had he not mentioned the gun, this probably never would have happened, in fact I'm sure it wouldn't have.

If I'm ever asked if I have a gun, my hands immediately go on the steering wheel or up away from my body. The officer has every right to be concerned. I advise that I have no ill intentions and ask what they want me to do.
Usually they will ask where is the gun, usually they don't want to see it. No furtive movements, do what they ask and all will be fine.

Had a friend with a neighboring agency do a traffic stop. Asked to see registration which was in glove box with a pistol on top. Guy never mentioned gun just pulled it out to set on the seat. Before it got clear of the glove box he had a Sig stuffed in his ear and was told if the gun went anywhere but on the seat he would be minus his head.

Had he mentioned he would have to move a pistol to retrieve the registration there probably wouldn't have been an issue at all.

Had a civilian friend in the same situation but other end. He said it's in the glove box with my gun on top. Cop said that was fine just set the gun on the floor, no issue at all, he didn't care.

[dustnchips]

I took a CC class in Michigan (I'm from Wisconsin). A police officer or Lawyer is required to speak to the class. We had a Mi. State officer speak. His advise was to Turn off the engine. If its dark turn on the interior lights. Sit with your hands on the wheel and inform the officer that you have a CCL and are armed. Then follow the officers instructions very carefully. Seems reasonable and if stopped I will definitely follow it. I see the point in not bringing up the gun, but as you said, in some states it is required.

[340pd]

The deceased driver had 79 previous traffic stops. I suspect the officer had reason to be nervous as he approached the car.

[b4uqzme]

79 previous stops that didn't end up with anyone dead. Sounds like a good track record to me. :rolleyes:

In Ohio we are required to inform any officer who approaches us that we are armed. We do just as dustnchips described: show hands and wait for instructions.

[Bawanna]

Giving this some consideration, even if it was required, I don't think I'd do so.
By doing so your basically announcing that you are a potential threat. If you knowingly or unknowingly do something the officer could consider furtive or a risk to him it could turn ugly since he knows there's a gun in the equation.

Here at least under my last chief we're not to use our title or badge in an effort to get out of a traffic ticket. Many officers use the I have a firearm announcement to introduce credentials. It's ok if the officer brings it up.
I don't do that. I don't hear well and I don't want to fail to do what the officer ask me to do.

Last week I had an encounter with California Highway Patrol on the way home from Reno. Met him head on in the middle of nowhere, somewhere near Alturas I think. He had me at 90 plus in a 65. I didn't know I was doing 90, didn't intend to do so, thought I was around 70- 75. Anyhow, his first comment was my CZ hat. He said nice guns. I just agreed.
He didn't think I was speeding on purpose because he said I didn't slow down when I saw him. I did instinctively let up on the throttle but I never hit the brake. That's an admission of guilt.
At any rate he saw my plate (a Washington Law Enforcement Memorial plate) and asked if I was retired. My wife interjected that I was not and worked for our police department. The plate numbers are in our badge number sequence which is why many of us got them when we did.
He really wanted to write me and I told him to do so, I had this one coming, I'd hold no ill will. We chatted about his potential hour long wait if he got in trouble. In the end being nice (just short of groveling) he let me go. He was a nice guy and I'd say that even if he had given me a ticket and it would have been a bad one, really bad.

At any rate, the issue of a potential gun on board never came up. The PM45 was on my ankle, I didn't have a belt gun on.
I wasn't even shaking this time like I usually do even when my own guys pull me over to chat. I just get nervous, but not this time.

[Armybrat]

I didn't know I was doing 90, didn't intend to do so

The Hillary defense won't necessarily work for us little guys. :p

[CJB]

Minnesota is NOT a "must inform" state.

A relatively newbie officer.

Scary stuff.... Costile was clearly trying to do "the right thing" but it went terribly wrong.

The only thing scarier is his GF... jeeze. At first, I thought the video was a complete hoax. She's too calm. Several shots, feet away, from in front of the muzzle - by all rights she should be dazed, stunned, confused, hysterical even, from the concussion and the event. She's too calm. Something ain't right.

[Ken L]

I was stopped for speeding last year in Wyoming. I'm from Colorado, was in Wyoming for business, and I knew that my Colorado concealed license is legal in Wyoming, but didn't remember if I had a duty to inform. I pulled both my driver's license and my CCL permit out before the officer got to my window. As I handed them both to him, I told him that I didn't know if I had a duty to inform, he thanked me for letting him know and that was the extent of the conversation. I did keep my hands on the wheel whenever he was by the truck. It really was a non-issue, he was a decent guy.

As a side note, they did change the speed limit on that stretch of highway from 65 to 70. But they did it after I got my ticket!

[b4uqzme]

...Something ain't right.

^^^ this

[SaltyNC]

In North Carolina, we must announce that we are carrying. I've thought about this a good bit before this shooting took place. Here is my plan of action:

Blue lights behind me.



Pull over as quickly as possible, but try to be courteous and find a safe area and not just stop anywhere.
Turn off any music that is playing.
Roll down driver window.
Get both hands high on the steering wheel and keep them there and wait for the officer to approach.
When he/she approaches, say your standard greeting/pleasantries and announce "As required by law, I need to inform you that I have a concealed carry permit, and I have a firearm. I am going to keep both hands on the steering wheel and await your instructions."
Wait for his/her instructions or questions.
If asked to retrieve my license, even if already covered by the officer's questioning, I will state again: "So we're clear, I carry my wallet in my left front pocket, the one nearest you. I carry my firearm in my right front pocket, the one furthest away from you. Again, my license is in my left pocket nearest you, and my firearm is in my right pocket furthest away from you. No other firearms are in the vehicle or on my person. Are you ready for me to reach into my left pocket nearest you and retrieve my license?" Similar descriptions would be used for IWB such as "My firearm is in a waistband holster on my right side, furthest away from you." I think going further with the description is key and not just using left/right, because that requires some thought on the officer's part. My right, his right, which pocket did he say? When you add "closest to you" or "furthest away from you," it is immediately more clear and a good additional confirmation for the officer to check off in his or her mind that we are on the same page.
If asked to show my license, while keeping my right hand on the steering wheel, reach into my left pocket slowly and pull out the wallet. When it is clearly in view, the right hand can come off the steering wheel to retrieve the license from the wallet.
From this point forward, it's basically just complying with any reasonable request very slowly and with additional communication as needed. For example, if asked to retrieve registration, communicate! "My registration is in my glovebox. Are you ready for me to retrieve it? There are no firearms in my glovebox. I will move slowly."


Since we're missing the first part of the video in this recent shooting, we just don't know what happened. Maybe the officer said, "Let me see your license," and then the guy announced he was carrying, but he was already in his pocket and kept digging in his pocket while the officer started backtracking. "Wait. Stop." Boomx4! I'm sure it was a bit of a mess. The guy is likely dead because of poor communication and possibly a jumpy officer.

Salty

[SaltyNC]

Actually, after just reading Ken's reply, I think I'll try to have my license and permit already out and in my hands resting on the steering wheel. That avoids the whole digging in the pocket thing to begin with. :) Better idea!

Salty

[yqtszhj]

Last time I got stopped at a road block I had a M1A laying in the open on the back seat of my truck, plain as day. Officer asked for my license and insurance and didnt say anything and I actually forgot about it until after he let me go. Had my j frame in my front pocket.

Guess there was no doubt a gun was in the car.

[Longitude Zero]

Costile was clearly trying to do "the right thing" but it went terribly wrong.

The only thing scarier is his GF... jeeze. At first, I thought the video was a complete hoax. She's too calm. Several shots, feet away, from in front of the muzzle - by all rights she should be dazed, stunned, confused, hysterical even, from the concussion and the event. She's too calm. Something ain't right.

I suggest you do some current research and not assume anything. Information is slowly leaking out about this and it is looking worse and worse for him. It is being reported that he DID NOT have a CCW and only the self serving lie told by his companion is not proof of anything. Also he matched the description of an armed robbery suspect and the video/pics release tend to bear that he is the armed robber. You are correct about one thing, something ain't right.

[Bobshouse]

We were coming back from Los Angeles last year right before New Years when we hit a sobriety checkpoint here in town. I pulled up, rolled down my window and a city police officer sticks his head in the car and asks me where we were coming from, sniffing the air the whole time. I had my Glock 30 on my hip and knew if I told him I was armed he would of yelled "gun" and every officer at that checkpoint would have drawn on me. Accidents happen, and I didn't want to be a statistic. Showed my license and I guess he didn't smell alcohol and I was on my way. Of course I don't have a CCW and don't feel I have to disclose unless asked, when they see my license and credentials surely they assume.

[CharlieR]

Ohio is a "Must Inform" state. Further, the caselaw requires the notification to occur during the initial contact with the officer. I am the recently retired Chief Prosecutor of a large city here. We put on seminars for officers, as well as the public on the suggested action to be taken. Some key points were:

Keeping your hands ON the steering wheel at all times until/unless directed by the officer to do something. (Some suggested hanging both hands outside the vehicle)
Don't blurt out "I've got a GUN"!! Tell the officer that you are a CHL holder and are required to inform him that you have a firearm with you. (Tell him/her where it is)
ASK...."What do you want me to do at this time?" and follow those directions SLOWLY. Some officers may want to disarm you themselves, some not. Some may ask you to exit the vehicle and then they may/may not disarm you, Some may just say, leave it where it is, but don't put your hands there.
If you already have your license and permit out of your wallet, it lessens the tension.
Before you reach anywhere (such as to get registration/insurance/etc.), ask "do you want me to get them out?, or do you want to get them?"
Any movements should be slow.

Most of the officers I have spoken with are much more comfortable once you have asked what they want you to do.
After the recent shootings, I expect they may be on MUCH higher alert, as is understandable. This would NOT be the time to argue about your rights, or to be arguing about the ticket you're getting. The place for that is in a courtroom.

[diablo53]

Texas is a "must identify if licensed and armed" state. I was stopped for speeding and was not armed. I didn't mention anything about my CHL. When he came back with my driver license he asked me if I forgot something. I looked at him puzzled and repeated his question. He said "You have a chl." I told him I wasn't armed and that was pretty much the end of that. Long story short, in Texas, LEO can tell you have a CHL when they run your information. Not the best idea to decide not to tell them if you are armed.

[jocko]

ohio is to my knowledge the onestate with a MUST TELL if u are pulled over for any reason.

I being from indiana have been stopped before on my motorcycle and in myt left pockethas beenmy PMJ9. I never have delcared that I am carrying. If they run a normal BMV check it will not show I have ccw permit, if theyt run a criminal background check, it will show up. normally they do not to the bqackground check unless they feel it is necessary. If they asked if I hve a weapon I will definitely answer ina pol9te way. I my my glock 43 ande my kahr PMJ9 that open place in the grip bottom.I have a copy of my ccw lifetime license, so there is no way i will be with that weapon and not have myt license on myt person. I being an ol man and certaily a opoitie and likeable person, I think that goes a long way. I try to follow the law and I have ask numerous Indiana officers their opinion ad most have told me that they would like to know if you have a gun on your person or in the car. If I am stopped for a oving violation, my thoughts are, give me a ticket or a warning but why add grief to the stop if you have a gun with ytou. Some cops truly be.ieve they should only be the ones with guns. Just sayin.

[Bills1873]

That's a good point about the cops that think they're the only ones that should have guns, Jocko. I don't believe there's a large percentage, but if one runs into such, still, honesty and respect will still be the best route to take.

[jeepster09]

This reinforces my opinion that if your carrying a gun you don't mention it unless asked if you have one.
Some states require you to advise if your stopped.
Sounds like he was asked for ID, in the process of getting his fat wallet (per girlfriend) out he said he had a gun. She quickly advised that he had a permit for it.
Officer then went into defense mode and asked to see/raise hands. Guy wasn't quick enough.

Had he not mentioned the gun, this probably never would have happened, in fact I'm sure it wouldn't have.

If I'm ever asked if I have a gun, my hands immediately go on the steering wheel or up away from my body. The officer has every right to be concerned. I advise that I have no ill intentions and ask what they want me to do.
Usually they will ask where is the gun, usually they don't want to see it. No furtive movements, do what they ask and all will be fine.

Had a friend with a neighboring agency do a traffic stop. Asked to see registration which was in glove box with a pistol on top. Guy never mentioned gun just pulled it out to set on the seat. Before it got clear of the glove box he had a Sig stuffed in his ear and was told if the gun went anywhere but on the seat he would be minus his head.

Had he mentioned he would have to move a pistol to retrieve the registration there probably wouldn't have been an issue at all.

Had a civilian friend in the same situation but other end. He said it's in the glove box with my gun on top. Cop said that was fine just set the gun on the floor, no issue at all, he didn't care.

Agreed, when I got my permit, every time! Instructor stated you do not state you have gun, here in Minnesota or even mention permit unless you are going to be arrested. Then if you know it's going to happen just hand officer permit with license....after he looks at it he may then ask if you are carrying, tell officer at that time. If you start out by saying "I got gun/permit" that's all that might be heard GUN.

[Armybrat]

I being from indiana have been stopped before on my motorcycle and in myt left pockethas beenmy PMJ9. Just sayin.

A "PMJ9"? What's that, a PM"Jocko"9? Justin made a one off custom PM9? :p

[CJB]

The PM9J (not PMJ9) is Jock's long shootin' short nosed PM9, which has been renamed in honor of the many thousands of rounds he has fired through it. One might say the pistol is damn near enshrined (or was that encrusted? no matter....).

I coined the term.

However, one must account for the famed and legendary typing skills of our beloved Jocko. Therefore, when Jocko types: "Thsi is my PMJ9 an I shoot the foker liek I sotle it", we end up being more endeared to his earthly presence.