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View Full Version : How long before sending back to the factory (CW45, ammo / FTF)?



NoCo_KA
07-15-2016, 06:16 PM
I had a P9 years ago, VERY reliable, no issues once past about 150 rounds or so. Ate everything. Here is what I've done on 2 range trips. Of course, clean/lube before each time.

DAY 1:

75 rounds S&B 230 FMJ, 17 FTF (round didn't fully chamber, yes slide release as suggested, and was stuck at an angle up the ramp at a slight angle). A few hard slams of the handle while holding the slide released the stuck round
25 rounds PMC 185 JHP (got it cheap, use it like FMJ at the range). I couldn't get through more than 2 rounds with a FTF, made it to 25 and gave up.
10 rounds Sig 200g JHP V-Crown (my Walthers love the 124gr 9mm). Same as the PMC JHP, just wouldn't feed got through 10 and gave up. FTF on the 2nd round every time.
End of day, 110 rounds and about 25% where FTF. VERY frustrating. I'm had break in periods with guns before where it was once and a while so I was ready for a few, but this was a lot.


DAY 2 (today)

50 rounds Geco 230 FMJ (German ammo), 0 FTF, excellent :-)
15 rounds Magtech 230 FMJ, 8 FTF, gave up on it
50 rounds Geco 230 FMJ, 0 FTF
Tried 10 rounds of the PMC JHP again, 5 FTF (2nd round every time, only loaded 1 in chamber and 1 in mag as a test).
Hornady Critical Defense 185 JHP, 20 rounds, 0 FTF.
End of day: 145 rounds, 13 FTF (all with Magtech or PMC)


TOTALS: 255 rounds, quite a few FTW overall, more than I would have expected. None of the ammo consisted of reloads or steel cases.

THOUGHTS: It appears that my CW45 is VERY pick eater. It likes Hornady and the German Geco ammo. Hates the Korean PMC and Brazilian Magtech. I'm not sure what else to think at this point. 45 isn't cheap to shoot and keep trying to get reliable with. Additionally, sometimes the ammo it likes may not be available and I'd had to keep trying new stuff and find it won't eat it then be stuck with it. Just hate that. It's the only 45 I have so I don't have anything else to feed the ammo it won't eat to. Argh.I'm sitting on about 100 rounds of ammo it won't eat now and don't want to do that again too much.

QUESTIONS:

Do I just accept that it like Geco and S&B and hope I can keep it getting it at a decent price and use that for range practice?
I'm fine with the Hornady, but given the experience I've had with the CW45 so far, I won't feel comfortable carrying anything in this sucker until I get at least 200 more error free FMJ and then at least 4-5 mags of carry ammo through it. Minimum.
So do I keep feeding the CW45 and hope it gets better? Or at what point do I send it back to Kahr? Recommendations? The last time I had a gun this finicky, I never carried it (all trust gone) and sold it quickly. Not ready to give up yet, but that's going to be on my mind until I can trust it).


Any advice would be welcome!!!

CJB
07-15-2016, 06:43 PM
FTF = Failure to FEED?

If so... pictures!

Not sure about the slamming the handle thing, but... here's something to try:

Remove the barrel, drop ammo into the chamber one at a time, noting its fit, and how deep it sits into the chamber. Should seat just under flush with the barrel hood.

Passing that test, take a look at the extractor pin, especially the forward one. Make sure the extractor is sitting in a clean hole in the slide... take that area apart and clean it, maybe a chip or burr is in there. You can run rounds under the extractor to see how much it needs to deflect with whatever round is on the boltface. Could be an issue there if its very tight spring and has a lot of deflection.

Magazine springs in correct orientation?

Usually the "bevel" under the breech face is for the top round in the magazine, not subsequent ones.... so I don't suspect that.

b4uqzme
07-15-2016, 06:59 PM
Assuming you have "my level" of mechanical aptitude, I don't think it's too early to send it back to Kahr. Otherwise, heed CJB's advise. He's talked me thru a couple before.

FWIW. My CM45 would fail to return to full battery. But it just happened a few times and cleared up entirely during the break-in. I did notice that it's important to lube the recoil assembly by racking the slide open and oiling the part that retracts (apologize for the poor description = see the picture). The slide racked smoother once I started lubing there.

b4uqzme
07-15-2016, 07:08 PM
^^^ then again, does the CW have a different kind of recoil assembly? If so, oops. :o

NoCo_KA
07-16-2016, 02:07 AM
FTF = Failure to FEED? YES

If so... pictures Didn't take a photo at the range. Slide is about 1/4" from all the way closed on round. Can't pull back the slide. Have to eject mag. Hold on to slide tight and hit the grip hard to break it lose.

Not sure about the slamming the handle thing, but... here's something to try:

Remove the barrel, drop ammo into the chamber one at a time, noting its fit, and how deep it sits into the chamber. Should seat just under flush with the barrel hood YES, I DID that after the first trip. They ALL drop in. They all are flush. I can even turn most of them fairly easily. When I turn barrel upside down, they fall right out.

Passing that test, take a look at the extractor pin, especially the forward one. Make sure the extractor is sitting in a clean hole in the slide... take that area apart and clean it, maybe a chip or burr is in there. You can run rounds under the extractor to see how much it needs to deflect with whatever round is on the boltface. Could be an issue there if its very tight spring and has a lot of deflection. ​Never thought of that. That should not be an issue why a new gun in my opinion. A break in period, yes. Something like that? No.

Magazine springs in correct orientation? I haven't stripped the mag. I'll check and see, would be surprised if it isn't.

Usually the "bevel" under the breech face is for the top round in the magazine, not subsequent ones.... so I don't suspect that.

Thanks!

NoCo_KA
07-16-2016, 02:09 AM
Assuming you have "my level" of mechanical aptitude, I don't think it's too early to send it back to Kahr. Otherwise, heed CJB's advise. He's talked me thru a couple before.

FWIW. My CM45 would fail to return to full battery. But it just happened a few times and cleared up entirely during the break-in. I did notice that it's important to lube the recoil assembly by racking the slide open and oiling the part that retracts (apologize for the poor description = see the picture). The slide racked smoother once I started lubing there. Thanks! I'll give that a shot. Mechanically, we are probably in the same boat!

CJB
07-16-2016, 05:07 PM
.....Slide is about 1/4" from all the way closed on round.....


When that happens, it almost certainly something going on with the extractor.

While you shouldn't "have" to make corrections in a new product, sometimes tweakage is needed.

Kahr's occasionally have manufacturing crap in the striker channel... another thing to look for is the striker remaining forward, btw, and that DOES need a trip to the factory.

But for an extractor... manufacturing gunk, chips of machined metal that didn't get cleaned out, a burr, the front extractor pin not being oriented correctly, that sort of thing, can cause grief, and are so easy to correct.

The Kahr extractor design is particularly clever, and not prone to stoppage from the accumulation of firing residue. They even call it "self cleaning".

Its worth checking out. Try to think of what's happening just as the slide closes that last little bit..... the head of the cartridge is sliding up under the extractor.

A clean, DRY, chamber is a must. And, Kahr's have nickle plated barrels (for lubricity and corrosion resistance). Make sure the chamber is nice and smooth. Again, not that you should have to... but I happen to know a small Dremel felt wheel will fit a .45 ACP chamber in a perfect manner to polish the chamber's nickle plating, if needed. Its also not unusual for the interior plating to flake or abrade away, which doesn't hamper things at all.

Longitude Zero
07-16-2016, 05:58 PM
I broke mine in with 500 rounds of round nosed hard ball. After that I have not had issues except with Magtech. Either it is junk or the CW45 just does not like it. Mine eats Hornady Critical Defense like it was going out of style.

NoCo_KA
07-17-2016, 01:39 AM
CJB and everyone else, thanks! I'll check out all the areas mentioned. I hope it smooths out soon :-)

NoCo_KA
07-20-2016, 12:08 AM
Day 3 (today):


75 rounds S&B FMJ 230g error free with stock mag and 7 round Kahr mags
50 rounds Fiocchi 230g FMJ error free
30 rounds S&B FMJ 230g error free through 2 Kimber 1911 mag's (unmodified, had my 1911 with me as well)
30 rounds Hornady Critical Defense 185g JHP error free with Kahr mags

TOTAL: 185 error free rounds today!

I think it's finally smoothing out. Didn't try the Magtech or PMC ammo. I've always had great luck with S&B and Fiocchi in my 9mm and 380's....I tend to buy it a lot at a good price anyway. I guess I know what the CW45 likes and doesn't like. Maybe after more rounds it will loosen a bit more and not be so picky. At least it's fed a total of 50 rounds of Critical Defense error free as well. If I take out the Magtech and PMC ammo from the last trip, that's 285 error free rounds. I feel MUCH BETTER!

Thanks for the advice. I focused on the extractor for cleaning and every other areas mentioned and oiled it as directed. It sure carries easier than my Kimber Pro Carry II :-)

nmkahrshooter
07-20-2016, 05:30 AM
Sounds like it is finally working out!