Man Shot 21 Times with 9mm Lives

[OldLincoln]

We read about shot placement, but perhaps its a new concept to New York Police as the article below indicates:
Man Shot 21 Times Lives (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/08/09/2010-08-09_how_did_he_live_after_21_shots.html)

A poster on another forum said "I gather the NYPD issues the 124-grain +P Gold Dot hollow-point 9mm cartridge by CCI Speer...pulled that off the web, so it could well be wrong."

I seriously wonder if .45 would have made a difference. I would not have believed 21 9mm slugs would not have killed the guy.

[jlottmc]

There was one some years ago in Chicago that was tore up more than that, before he died. He was also high on morphine...

[bps3040]

So, I guess all the caliber wars people are right, lol. Pure luck, the guy needs to go buy a lottery ticket

[jocko]

NO doubt, it just wasn't his time...

[10Kahrs]

Although, I carry the 9mm for CCW I'm not suprised. I've seen the 9mm fail to stop a BG too many times. Too many people think too much of the 9mm stopping power. They may die from there wounds later on but the 1 shot stop still belongs to the 357 magnum. There is a reason why so many LE across the country have switched to 40 cal. Oh, I can see the Rev Al now getting geared up for this one. The NYPD will examine why 21 shots? and never come to the conclusion that the 9mm did not do its job. They will blame it on so many other things poor training blah blah !

[hobbydad]

I have an magazine article here in which a Florida police officer was hit 7 times with a .45 acp, at point blank range, and lived. It was ball ammo, and his body armor stopped 3 shots, but the first went thru his jaw/face. He stayed concious and aware long enough to dispatch the bad guy. Point is, you just never know. Sometimes 1 bullet will do it, sometimes 21 won't.

On a side note, with the public soo concerned about the "big" number 21, consider that it's most likey less than the magazine capacitiy of just 2 officers.

[jocko]

hobbydad; good point on the round count. never thought of that..

[RogerP9fan]

They forgot to mention it was SUPERMAN!
GD 124+P expands to be the size of .45
Nobody aimed for the central nervous system home base?

[jfrey]

I also read where there were 46 shots fired and other people were hit too. I believe 2 other officers and several bystanders. Sounds like the police need more practice in well aimed shooting. Can you say "Spray and pray"?

[tnedator]

I also read where there were 46 shots fired and other people were hit too. I believe 2 other officers and several bystanders. Sounds like the police need more practice in well aimed shooting. Can you say "Spray and pray"?

I read a post by Dr. Roberts (the terminal ballistics/gelatin guy) where he was talking about over-penetration and how it really isn't a concern, especially considering that far more shots miss their target than over-penetrate with enough force to do damage. He listed stats for three or four departments, and NYC was by far the worse. Going by memory, I think their hit rate was in the 30% or possibly 40% range, meaning 60-70% of the rounds fired missed the bad guy.

[jocko]

I also read where there were 46 shots fired and other people were hit too. I believe 2 other officers and several bystanders. Sounds like the police need more practice in well aimed shooting. Can you say "Spray and pray"?

so typical of a gun fight. I read a few years back of a survery on NYPD shootings. Most were under 6 feet and I can't remember the actual percentage but well over 60% of the shoots fired at 6 feet MISSED.

So much for sights--huh???

[OldLincoln]

In the infamous LA bank robbery shootout, many hundred shots were fired at the two BG without a single round to the head. The PD said we're outgunned which they were, but I think it's more due to rigid training on COM. We always hear it placement that matters most.

[wyntrout]

so typical of a gun fight. I read a few years back of a survery on NYPD shootings. Most were under 6 feet and I can't remember the actual percentage but well over 60% of the shoots fired at 6 feet MISSED.

So much for sights--huh???

Well, f44life could certainly do better than that, to hear him talk, anyhow. You just gotta stand there like a macho man and take careful aim. You can't sweat the other guys' bullets.
Wynn:D

[f44life]

what you talking about? when 50cent got shot?

[f44life]

Well, f44life could certainly do better than that, to hear him talk, anyhow. You just gotta stand there like a macho man and take careful aim. You can't sweat the other guys' bullets.
Wynn:D

careful aim is the key word;)

heres me and my wife
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x297/jmd2772/Wrestlers/macho.jpg

[quikduk]

Well since we are digressing a bit...

Personally, I like the 9mm. I think out of 21, at least one (1) could have been a head shot?!! I mean I realize that there is massive stress etc. but these guys are supposed to train for it...a lot. :p

I remember this poster in my CCW class that said "Head shots work!"

...then there was the off comment like "Would you care which caliber bullet I shot you in the head with? I think not." :rolleyes:

[Bawanna]

Pretty wife long as we're digressing. She looks like an angel.

[recoilguy]

She is an angel, sort of, she died in 2003..........rest in peace Miss Elizabeth.

RCG

[jocko]

Pretty wife long as we're digressing. She looks like an angel.

I think I can take him:eek:

[Bawanna]

I think I can take him:eek:

Better bring your lunch and time it right after your nap. A sock full of quarters might be right handy too.

[OldLincoln]

Uh Oh, Bawanna sees another angel!

[Bawanna]

Uh Oh, Bawanna sees another angel!

Its a curse I think or perhaps an omen.

Speaking of angels, the last night on the big water with the cruise they had a white hot party or some such thing but alot of the crew dressed up in white many including big wings. Some of the ladies looked really fine in white with the wings. Of course I felt obligated to tell them so too.
Many smiles, only one mean look and weak slap that missed and that was the missus so all is well.

[f44life]

;););)

[OldLincoln]

Many smiles, only one mean look and weak slap that missed and that was the missus so all is well.Aren't those smiles sweet! My wife gave up on punishing me and just shakes her head like he's out of his mind. The time I asked her in front of a really cute waitress "If she follows us home can we keep her?" was about the last time. Heck, if I said that 20 years ago I would be in dutch, but now that I'm harmless (finally housebroke) I want to tell them what pretty eyes they have or such a beautiful smile. Several smile at me when they see me coming like I'm the only one who notices.

[Bawanna]

Aren't those smiles sweet! My wife gave up on punishing me and just shakes her head like he's out of his mind. The time I asked her in front of a really cute waitress "If she follows us home can we keep her?" was about the last time. Heck, if I said that 20 years ago I would be in dutch, but now that I'm harmless (finally housebroke) I want to tell them what pretty eyes they have or such a beautiful smile. Several smile at me when they see me coming like I'm the only one who notices.

Oh yeah, been there. We were in Cody Wyoming a few years ago and a saloon girl at a show came and sat on my lap for a picture. I told the missus she's so cute and she smells so nice, can we keep her. I didn't get a beatin on that one.
Kind of sad that with our experience and expertise in appreciating beauty we're punished and criticised for enjoying it or telling the person how nice they look even without the intent of trying to take them home with us. Although theres certainly no harm in trying. Especially with angels.

[jlottmc]

I still try to take them home with me...

[OldLincoln]

Yeah... I think of my wife as an angel too and sometimes when she insists on standing without my help I might say to the waitress "isn't she beautiful?". You can see the staff twitch and move as if pulling her up in sympathy.

She's all proud when she makes it, kinda like a base runner sliding into second into a face full of cleats, stepped on, fallen on, generally beat up, then stands up, brushes himself off, shoulders back, chest puffed out, saying "is THAT all you got?" She's some angel and she's mine!

[OldLincoln]

Just had a crazy on-topic thought. If anybody was put on the carpet about a shooting with 9mm "killer ammo", seems the original post would be a good defense. Man was shot 21 times with Speer 124-grain +P Gold Dot hollow-point 9mm cartridge and lived. Could compare to a man shot 1 time with a 22 and died. Makes a good argument.

[jlottmc]

Just remember that a lawyer is attached to everything that comes out the end of that gun. I would rather have the dead with a 22 argument than the not dead with 21 9mm. I can justify using not only my two reloads, but my choice of ammo, by asking the nearest LEO what he's got. That's from Mosaad Ayob, good piece of writin' that article was.

[wyntrout]

That doesn't say a lot for my PM9 carry ammo. I use the short barrel version. I would like to think that I could connect with something that would turn the bad guy off, permanently, with a lot less hits than that. COB works for zombies and is what I scream at the the TV screen a lot. When the bad guy or monster keeps coming and the shots to COM don't seem to work, it's time to try COB... Center of Brain... that's not the face, either. It's also what I'm screaming for the good person to do to who or whatever's lying on the ground. Make sure they don't get up. If it's a monster, decapitation is pretty permanent... and get the head away from the body so it can't just screw it back on. LOL. :D
COB... Lights Out!
Wynn:behindsofa::D

[OldLincoln]

Damn Wynn, did you forget to take your meds today? :)

[wyntrout]

Just remember that a lawyer is attached to everything that comes out the end of that gun. I would rather have the dead with a 22 argument than the not dead with 21 9mm. I can justify using not only my two reloads, but my choice of ammo, by asking the nearest LEO what he's got. That's from Mosaad Ayob, good piece of writin' that article was.

I would take it further and say that anything you say or post here... or anywhere else online, will be found by the defense lawyer(s) and be used against you... just as the gubmint will do when they get ready to confiscate your "toys". :eek:
Wynn:behindsofa::banplease:

I just checked... I did take my meds this morning. :D:w00t::001_tt2::hippie:

[f44life]

well after reading the actual article after blocking the beef attack....

It didnt give a distance of how close he was shot...

Assuming it was close (5yards) because of the hit count, still he must of had all his organs outlined with rounds.... Not one in the dome....since some people think um chuck norris's son....if i had 22 rounds and aimed at a man even with novice accuracy (which is me) there is a decent probability that one will be in the head.

Does anyone know the answer to this? If someone is shot with 124gr defense round at 5yd 10yds 15yds how far does the bullet actually pass into the body?

[wyntrout]

That's what I was saying, if COM isn't getting him down, it's time for head shots and quickly.:D
Wynn