P380 FTRB issue

[Bjornf16]

New to forum; had my P380 since they came out. Not sure how many rounds have been through it but it must be over 2,000 (220 this past week).

I'm having failure to return to battery issues with my target ammo (factory)...more so than I've ever had. Shot Winchester White Box with flat nose (100 rounds) which my gun didn't tolerate well. Palm slaps to back of slide would resolve the issue. Probably 40-50% FTRB rate.

Next day (after cleaning) was 100 rounds of Blazer Brass (round nose). Much better but still approx 25% FTRB rate. Thumb pressure on back of slide would put into battery.

On both of these shooting sessions I put a couple of magazines worth of Hornady Critical Defense through at the end (dirty gun) with no failures whatsoever.

I've read several threads on FTRB issues. I've added some photos of gun (recently cerakoted slide, but not inside and not barrel).

I follow the lubrication guide found of this forum. I've recently completely stripped upper, cleaned, cerakoted, then reassembled.

I don't believe I have a tight extractor (see photo).

I do have some wear marks on top of chamber block. I've never polished inside of slide. The photo below of chamber block was after polishing block then cycling slide.

Finally, I'm still running original springs. They are right at 2.5 inches long.

I've ordered new springs as well as Lakeline recoil rod and striker.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on getting this running smoothly.




https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85487460/IMG_1406.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85487460/IMG_1408.jpg


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85487460/IMG_1387.jpg

[zamboni]

After 2000 rounds everything should be smoothed out. I'm guessing the new recoil springs will your answer.

[wyntrout]

Yes, I've had mine since early 2010 and had to replace the recoil springs when it started not going fully into battery. New recoil springs should fix it. Keep the feed ramp clean... seems to get dirty after 50 shots or so and may start having problems.

I replaced all of my recoil springs and some were bears needing a coil or so clipped just so the slide could be locked back, but they were the new model springs. The P380 springs were easy and worked fine.

Welcome to the forum! Enjoy your Kahr(s).

Wynn :)

[dsk]

How on Earth did you manage to get 2000 rounds out of your original recoil springs? Mine start to crap out after around 500 rounds! Nowadays I have a fresh set that goes in the gun for carry, but I take them out and beat up my older ones when I go to the range.

[SaltyNC]

I have a CW instead of a P, but wow, just 500 rounds and you needed new springs? Is that what others are experiencing? I still haven't replaced my springs, and I'm over 2000 rounds. The only time I had an issue with RTB was with Winchester Flat Nose, which my CW380 doesn't like, anyway.

Salty

[LuckyDog]

I have a p380 - purchased in 2012. It has under 400 rounds and began experiencing the (somewhat common) light primer strike. If I pulled the slide back enough to reset the striker - with out ejecting - then pushed in back forward into battery it would then fire every time.

If your recoil spring is a bit weak it will allow the slide to move back a tiny bit when the striker goes forward and hits the primer. This induces some space and you get a light strike even with a strong firing pin spring since if effectively shortens the firing pin. If you put a bic pen down the barrel - and the slide fully closed, the firing pin will throw it out the pen or dowel out close to 10 feet.

I also determined that it took very little force, almost nothing to draw the slide back 1/8 of an inch. The apparent solution is to replace the recoil spring set -and the slide returns to battery and strikes hard.

I didn't like the idea that these springs failed that fast - and they don't. The "old" springs shipped with the gun do - Kahr's New 380 replacement recoilssprings are different. There has been an engineering upgrade - unannounced. The recoil springs are nested - outer and inner. The OUTER springs that came in the gun I bought in 2012 and the New 2016 appear identical - Same number of coils and both .036 wire. The new INNER RECOIL spring is different. It is shorter - has 13 coils instead of 15 and is MADE OF .032 diameter wire (thicker) than the .028 diameter wire in the 2012 spring that came in the gun.

Kahr has not confirmed or announced a design improvement - but the coil count and the wire thicker wire diameter do confirm an engineering improvement.

This information was "suspected" from chatter on the web dating several years back - although nobody did the measurements. It seems to work for many - (and for Kahr.) It is the "go to" place for light primer strikes and failure to return fully to battery and would explain why the newer 380's have a reputation of running more consistently that the earlier versions.

Hope this helps and those struggling with failure to return full to battery and/or light firing pin strikes.




This "newer" style spring set "should" clear up some issues and result in longer spring life. I don't have longevity data since I shot up my 380 ammon "trouble shooting" and haven't restocked for the "new" test.

[LuckyDog]

Bjornf16 - I just posted a similar situation below - you will find that there is a change in the newer version of the inner recoils spring on the P380s - a but shorter - less coils but a HEAVIER DIAMETER SPRING WIRE. The measurements are listed below by "LuckyDog" You might find the solution and reliability improvement you need.

[erichard]

FYI, Midwayusa carries a number of P380 parts now, including the recoil springs. Says the recoil springs are to OEM specs, but not sure if they are from the same factory or not:

http://www.midwayusa.com/kahr-p380/br?cid=21308

Cheap enough to buy a couple at a time and change out early. Better deal with shipping, especially if you are buying other things there already. I bought a couple and and an extra extractor, but haven't tried them out yet. Just spares for down the road.

BTW, I used to own a Seecamp 380, and Larry Seecamp recommend changing out his recoil springs every 200 rounds. They were pretty tiny, though, and took a battering, as anyone who has shot the Seecamp 380 can attest to. As I recall, his father actually invented and patented the nested double spring setup. Either the patent expired, or he licensed out the ingenious system (DPM has triple recoil springs, which apparently last a very long time...hardly ever wear out according to them, because triple build diminishes the stress each spring feels with each cycle. Not available for our 380's, though).

[Bjornf16]

I've just received new recoil springs from Kahr. They are much stiffer than my original springs; and much stiffer than I remember when new.

I'll post range results soon

[Bjornf16]

Just returned from range. New recoil spring made all the difference in the world. No FTRB at all. I did have a few "premature lock backs"; I know my supporting hand caused a couple; not sure about the others. No failures shooting single handed at all.

I'm happy again...

[gun papa]

Yup, new spring will fix it.

[P380BUG]

Mine were crap to start and ordered NEW ones that were no better just a couple weeks ago.
It really needs a set of stiffer springs by 1-2 lbs.

Does anyone make their in higher power ??????

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[topgun1953]

Mine were crap to start and ordered NEW ones that were no better just a couple weeks ago.
It really needs a set of stiffer springs by 1-2 lbs.

Does anyone make their in higher power ??????

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

I don't think there is a higher power option. How many rounds through yours? Does your extractor look ok? Where are your rounds getting hung up? More information will help us offer you some advice.

[P380BUG]

I have put 350 through it.
The extractor looks fine.
Sometimes it does not drive the shell completely in the chamber.

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