CW380 back for repair again!!!!

[dhenze]

I just got my CW380 back from Kahr this afternoon do to failure to feed and failure to lock back on the last round issues. Before I returned it I shot at least 350 rounds through it, and no ammo brand gave me any confidence with reliability. The Winchester white box target rounds worked the best, but far from perfect. The Hornady Critical Defense was absolutely horrible. Hornady American Gunner, Federal Premium HST Personal Defense and Blazer round nose FMJ did not feed regularly enough to be consistent. And with each run through the 2 Kahr mags I had a failure to lock about on the last round 20% of the time. Personal Defense and/or FMJ hollow points were the biggest problem.

I was excited to get my 380 back and just ran through a new box of 25 Hornady Critical Defense rounds. The first mag fed smoothly, but failed to lock back. The second mag gave the same results I got before the repair. Next I ran a box of 50 Winchester White Box target rounds. The first mag had a couple of the same issues. The next 44 rounds ran well with only one stove pipe.
Here's my question: Do I continue to spend money trying to find rounds this 380 will shoot, or send it back for its second repair? The Technical Service Work Sheet stated "Updated rear Extractor Pin, polished slide and tested OK". I guess my 3rd option is to sell it. Other than reliability, I love everything else about this gun and hate to throw in the towel.

[erichard]

Hey, welcome to the club. Been there, done that, got a couple t-shirts.

If you assume they in fact got good results over many rounds, and it's not a hardware problem, then look to the software, how you are shooting. Make sure you have a firm grip and that the wrists are locked. Even if you think you are OK, you might be limp wristing. I think this gun is prone to it in the sense that there is very little room for error in the timing of the cycle because the gun is so tiny and light, which can make it slightly snappy due to sparse inertia. With a bigger, heavier gun, there are wider tolerances where the gun will still function, with poor form and/or less than ideal ammo and/or dirty mechanism, think glock, etc. Have someone experienced with guns shoot it and see if they can reproduce either the errors or the good functioning.

If you use extended mags, don't, in my opinion.

The Hornady rounds should work. They seem to work best for most people.

Make sure it's lubed and clean.

If they replaced the recoil spring, it may need to be broken in a bit before being in the sweet spot.

The lock back of the slide on the last round isn't a show stopper since many mouse guns don't have that feature anyway, but it's annoying if you are counting on it. [edited here] With the slide off the gun, but the slide release piece back in the gun, and an empty mag, you can view how the slide release works as you insert the empty mag slowly, looking down into the gun. You can see where the slide stop interacts physically with the follower in the mag (after the last round is chambered when shooting). I found the slide stop to not be precisely made with two different examples of it (was getting premature slide lock and asked for a new slide release part), and had to sand a little away. That's not your problem, but you may be able to figure out was is going on if you look it over. If you have poor springs in the mags, it could explain all the problems too, I suppose, but it may just as likely not be the issue.

I use Magguts, which includes a different follower. It may have helped my gun's functioning beyond adding a round to the mag. Also, the follower can be adjusted somewhat with regards to hitting the slide stop reliably. You might try that out. I use them in all my mags, though will admit that a piece of plastic in the internals of the follower did break requiring replacement (for free), twice. He may have improved the design since then, though.

Hard to know the answer, but those are some initial thoughts.

[zredwire]

I use Magguts, which includes a different follower. It may have helped my gun's functioning beyond adding a round to the mag. Also, the follower can be adjusted somewhat with regards to hitting the slide stop reliably. You might try that out. I use them in all my mags, though will admit that a piece of plastic in the internals of the follower did break requiring replacement (for free), twice. He may have improved the design since then, though.
Hard to know the answer, but those are some initial thoughts.

This is also what I did. I have four 6 round magazines. Three of the four have Magguts conversions and they work flawless (including allowing me to put 7 rounds in the magazine). The one stock magazine I have will not feed some types of ammo, and recently has stopped locking the slide back. I just need to spend the money to change it over to Magguts also.
The only time I ever had a stovepipe was when I limp wristed the gun. Make sure you lock your wrist. I have two other larger guns (a 9mm and a .45ACP) and I never have issues with how I grip them, but the little CW380 requires a really stable grip.

[erichard]

I edited the original response because you actually need the slide off the gun and the slide release back in the gun (with slide off) to view how the mag & follower interact with the slide release (duh, not possible to do it with slide locked back as originally written ... just thought about it a second ago). You can see how the follower pushes up the slide release, thereby locking the slide backwards after the last round shot. If the follower doesn't push up the tab on the slide release, then no slide lock back. With the Magguts, you can actually bend a metal piece outwards that makes the follower hit the slide release, if by chance you (I) happen to have shaved off too much of the tab in your (read: my) Dremel adventures (DAMHIKT).

[b4uqzme]

Check out Greg's tips starting around post #11. They could be helpful. http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?29311-P380-failure-to-lock-back

[SaltyNC]

I use Magguts, which includes a different follower. I use them in all my mags, though will admit that a piece of plastic in the internals of the follower did break requiring replacement (for free), twice. He may have improved the design since then, though.

I don't think there is any plastic in my Magguts follower--it's all metal. There is a small piece of plastic that is attached to the base catch plate. Is that what you're referring to?

Salty

[dhenze]

Guys, thanks for all of your suggestions and I'll give them all a try. I just ordered the Magguts you suggested because I thought the way the mags fed the rounds could be the main issue. I am used to larger, heavier revolvers and this is my first semi auto 380, so the limp wristing may be a contributing factor. I'm checking Greg's tips at post #11 now.

[RRP]

While waiting for your parts to arrive, try shooting the pistol left-handed. In many cases, that resolves the slide lock problem on the last round.

These tiny guns don't leave much room for our thumbs. Shooting left-handed puts the thumbs on the opposite side of the slide as the slide lock lever. If shooting left-handed allows the slide to lock back on the last round, you'll know it's not a gun problem. Adapting our grip is cheaper than having a surgeon amputate the thumbs, but it's not as permanent a fix.

[SaltyNC]

I don't think there is any plastic in my Magguts follower--it's all metal. There is a small piece of plastic that is attached to the base catch plate. Is that what you're referring to?
Salty

I think you'll like the Magguts. I would like it better than the original OEM design even if it didn't provide an extra round. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the philips head screw they use in the base plate. They need to have a piece either stamped or MIMd.

Good luck. I hope that solves the issue for you.

Salty

[erichard]

I don't think there is any plastic in my Magguts follower--it's all metal. There is a small piece of plastic that is attached to the base catch plate. Is that what you're referring to?

Salty

I realized later that I had misspoken. The plastic piece was in the baseplate as I recall, without actually taking it apart to verify this. I think where the screw went into the plastic, it broke. I had some of his first production for the CW380, so he may have changed the design. I expect he would have since it broke in less than a year, on two different mags. Overall, though, his concept is somewhat ingenious, and I suspect, that like many multi-springed doodads (like recoil springs), they should retain their spring strength for quite a long time. I read this regarding DPM recoil springs, which I have in my Glock 23. They are actually triple springs.

[SaltyNC]

The plastic piece was in the baseplate as I recall

Yeah, that's the piece I wish they would re-design. It looks like something someone threw together on a workshop bench as a quick fix. A thin piece of metal with a philips head screw placed into a plastic piece to hold it all together. Bleh. :)

Salty

[dhenze]

Guys, I think you've hit the nail on the head!!! I installed Magguts in both of my 6 round factory mags and am very pleased with the results so far. I shot my 2 loaded mags (12 rds of Win White Box flat nosed FMJ) and then a 50 round box of Blazer Brass. Next I ran a box of 25 Hornaday Critical Defense (I had horrible fail-to-feed issues previously). All ran perfectly except one Hornady didn't return to battery, but a quick tap on the back of the slide did it. Then I shot 50 Remington RN-FMJ target loads that ran perfectly as well. Thanks again for the Magguts recommendation. This saved me a lot of frustration over what the future of this little CW380 was going to be. Now I'm pleased with my purchase and no longer envious of the CW380 owners who raved about their flawless results.

[dsk]

Most of the reliability problems I had with my P380 went away after I switched out all the OEM mag springs and followers with MagGuts kits. Kahr seriously needs to do a complete redesign of their magazines, not just the .380s but the entire line as well. YouTube is full of videos showing people how to sand down the OEM plastic followers to help improve feeding, which we shouldn't be having to do.

BTW the second mod you may need to do is replace the breakage-prone OEM striker with the stronger one made by Lakeline LLC: https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/ (https://lakelinellc.com/product-category/kahr-pistol-accessories/kahr-striker-solutions/)

[dhenze]

Most of the reliability problems I had with my P380 went away after I switched out all the OEM mag springs and followers with MagGuts kits. Kahr seriously needs to do a complete redesign of their magazines, not just the .380s but the entire line as well. YouTube is full of videos showing people how to sand down the OEM plastic followers to help improve feeding, which we shouldn't be having to do.

BTW the second mod you may need to do is replace the breakage-prone OEM striker with the stronger one made by Lakeline LLC: https://lakelinellc.com/shop/ultimate-striker-solution-for-kahr-380-pistols/ (https://lakelinellc.com/product-category/kahr-pistol-accessories/kahr-striker-solutions/)

Amen on the mag redesign. Not only did spend a lot of time and money on different ammo during and after the break-in period, I was about ready to sell the CW380 for anything I could get. Thanks for the heads up on the striker. Is that something that's relatively easy to do?

[Ed M]

Is that something that's relatively easy to do?

Just did this to my CW380. Took about 15 minutes including cleaning time.

Click on the red Lakeline link dsk provided, then click on the striker item selection (only item listed).

Scroll down until you see the instruction sheet link in green and click on it. The sheet has detailed pictures and instructions, and there's youtube links at the bottom of the page.

Very easy to do, and it's obvious that the Lakeline part is MUCH beefier than the original one.

[Bawanna]

I personally can vouch for Alfonse and Lakeline. He's just over the mountain from me and I've had the pleasure of meeting "The Man" in person.
He does good stuff or he don't bother with it. You'll be happy or he won't be happy.

The installation is as Ed noted, not difficult. Plenty of help here if you feel the need.

[Bobshouse]

You can get a great DVD of complete disassembly/reassembly of your kahr here.

http://www.glockstore.com/Complete-Kahr

http://www.glockstore.com/assets/images/products/Complete-Kahr_main-1.jpg?resizeid=5&resizeh=1000&resizew=1000

Great to have handy in case you run into problems.

[dsk]

While not physically difficult, with a Kahr it is really easy to lose the pins and springs that will inevitably shoot out as soon as you take the back plate off. When I took mine apart to replace the striker the striker spring shot out and disappeared somewhere in my garage. Considering it gone but determined to try looking anyway I got up on a ladder with a flashlight, and lo and behold it was resting on the roof of my SUV!

Ever since then I learned to only take the slide apart in my bathroom, which is really tiny. And yes I keep the drains closed and the toilet lid down. :p

[Bawanna]

I use the Ripley Retractor bent coat hanger and often times still use a gallon zip lock back.
The Retractor helps immensely so you can focus on detaining and or capturing the spring.

It's amazing how those little tiny parts, even just dropped a short distance can end up 26' away. Like magic or something.