A little story about lubrication.

[Bawanna]

I don't post this to slander or criticize these companies, well actually deep down I guess I do but just sharing a couple recent experiences.

We'll start with yesterday. Our department sniper is extremely OCD especially about maintaining his rifle. He had monthly training. Him and the other regional snipers shoot to qualify and practice etc.
His rifle is a custom ordered Robar Remington 700 with all the bells and whistles. It has aproximately 1500 rounds fired and he keeps a meticulous record.

Well yesterday he gets all set up on the target very first shot and "Click". Quickly cycles the bolt for a second shot and "Click". He swallowed his stomach, anxiety overwhelmed him. 7 or 8 misfires or more. Gave the rounds that wouldn't fire to another guy and they fired fine.
He text me as he's getting the rope ready to hang himself, he's deeply, deeply disturbed. Says he's heading back, time to go home but don't go home, we need to figure this out.
I figure it's a bolt rifle, don't get much simpler, firing pin, spring, something easy.

Well we take it down (the bolt) and the first thing I notice is it's quite sticky. He's been a big advocate of Frog Lube last 6 months or so especially for the Glocks on the motor guys. Anyhow we mess around but the firing pin and spring being sticky is bugging the heck out of me. I asked him if he put Frog Lube on it. He said no.....I smelled it, smelled like Frog Lube. Had him smell it, hmmm maybe I did. I said it feels sticky.
He was getting good primer hits, the firing pin sounded like it was dropping smartly as it should but apparently slowed down just enough it wasn't hitting hard enough.
I know when we did the Glocks we did it by the letter, heated the gun with a hair dryer, used the conditioner, then the regular lube. I assume he did the same with the 700. He said he cleans the rifle every time but only disassembles the bolt annually. I suspect he'll be doing that more frequently and he won't be using Frog Lube in there no more.

Well long story short we headed to the solvent tank and cleaned the heck out of it. Blew it dry, put it back together, sent him back to the range and 20 rounds no issues.
No more Frog Lube. Work order to collect the Glocks from the motors and get that glue off of them poste haste.

Same guy has a nice Colt Rail Gun, meticulous, dehorned, set up just the way he wants it. He was on a FireClean mood right before the Frog Lube mood.
Colt never failed, suddenly failing right and left. Same thing, all gummed up. (Really gummed up) The funny thing is it was incredibly tough to get that stuff off. Solvent didn't really want to cut it.
Mr. Meticulous, he even took the thumb safety plunger spring and frog lubed it. It was practically glued in the channel. Spent alot of time de Firecleaning that Colt I'll tell ya.

Anyhow I guess this just reinforces the theory of not lubricating the striker or channel in our Kahrs or perhaps any other gun for that matter.

[b4uqzme]

I clean guns often and stick with simple products: Ballistol, RemOil. So there's no need for any new-fangled stuff.

Sincerely,
Just as Meticulous. :D

[yqtszhj]

Good post. Nothing like tried and true practices sometimes. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[RolandD]

I, almost, got on the frog lube bandwagon. It sounds fantastic, but then I decided to wait a while. I'm glad I did. Hoppe's is good enough for my guns.

[Bawanna]

I've always been a clean your guns after you shoot em and never felt no need for any fancy oils.

Some people are obsessed with using the newest, trickest high speed low drag operator stuff that comes out.

I prefer to stick with the old tried and true stuff. Any oil will work if you replace it once in awhile.

Poor guy was just a wreck when that rifle didn't fire and guess I can't blame him but he used the stuff and knew I really wasn't an advocate of the stuff myself.

[nmkahrshooter]

I use the same stuff people have been using for 100 years, I see no need to change!

[CJB]

Well guns ain't transmissions. They don't need to bathe in lubricant.

The tried and true happens to be tried and true for good reason.

My own idea is to match the lube to the purpose. That is - gooey and sticky and thick on things that take a pounding, thin and slippery on things that need to slide. Locking lugs and such need different lube than strikers which need hardly any, or none. Firing pins need the same as a striker. Bolt lugs about the same as barrel lugs on an autoloading pistol.

[kenemoore]

Most of these new products promise to last forever, and reduce cleaning efforts. I'm with the Colonel, just clean and lube when you use them and no issues. My dad used 3-In-1 oil his entire life, never had an issue.
I have heard lots of Frog Lube stories like this one, and it has scared me off the new stuff.

[340pd]

Some say,
Frog Lube=coconut oil
Fireclean=vegetable oil
Both will work if used properly but so will spit.
Oil in firing pin or striker channels can be asking for trouble, especially in cold weather conditions.

[deadeye]

Only trouble I had with my CM9 is when I over oiled it. Oiled the extractor real, real good. Next time at the range the brass flew back and hit me in the forehead. Left a mark. Took it home and throughly cleaned it, oiled it correctly and miracle! Problem solved. Always have used Hoppe's and will continue to do so. (In the right places.)

[JohnR]

I'm not very meticulous but I won't use the frog snot. Lubrication and metal preservation isn't really rocket science, or superstition either.

[skiflydive]

I've used Frog Lube for a couple of years. I like it. It was the clear winner in a clean,Lube,rust prevention test that's been referenced several times on this forum. It leaves a nice slippery dry surface. The key is to wipe off all the excess and keep any Lube the heck away from your strikers. Any excess will probably cake up like the Colonel's tale. I'm sticking with it myself.

[Bobshouse]

Frog Lube should be sold as a tanning product instead of a gun CLP. Couldn't you imagine all the beauties at the beach with frog skin? LOL! Least the place would be mosquito and fly free!

[berettabone]

Sewing oil works wonders...................always worked well on the fast moving parts of a sewing machine.......it's thin, light, and it lasts forever. I think it's kind of funny that some people buy in to this horse hockey, about it saving your firearm, and it won't rust, and it cleans up easier. Your firearm will mostly out last you, no matter what you use. Save your money for ammo. Your nice well lubed gun won't do you any good if you can't hit anything with it.:o

[JohnR]

"Frog lube - I'm sticking with it". Quote of the day! :)

[Ed M]

I've used Frog Lube for a couple of years. I like it. I'm sticking with it myself.

+1.

I was sometimes self conscious about carrying concealed with a freshly Ballistol cleaned gun. People look at you like you need to wash your socks more often. At my age, people don't bat an eye if they smell the "Icy Hot" aroma that FrogLube has. I like to think of it as olfactory camouflage. :cool:

[skiflydive]

"Frog lube - I'm sticking with it". Quote of the day! :)

Yeah...I ruminated over that myself before I hit enter. There's nothing sticky about it if it's used correctly so I'll keep on using FrogLube.

[Bawanna]

If it works for you stick with it! We followed their recommendations to the letter and ended up with glue.

I'm very happy I never put either Fireclean or Frog Lube on anything I own.

This is exactly what concerned me, is people sing the praises of this stuff, next best thing since sliced bread (gluten free, what is a gluten and what the heck does it look like?).

[SlowBurn]

Thought about frog lube, cause who doesn't want to be "current?" But Ballistol works so well I couldn't get properly motivated to go through the process of changing. Now this comes along and makes me feel smart. Good thread.

[skiflydive]

If it works for you stick with it! We followed their recommendations to the letter and ended up with glue.

I'm very happy I never put either Fireclean or Frog Lube on anything I own.

This is exactly what concerned me, is people sing the praises of this stuff, next best thing since sliced bread (gluten free, what is a gluten and what the heck does it look like?).

This thread has me thinking though. I think I'll tear down my Kahrs this afternoon and have a good look. I'll report back later.

[Bawanna]

I'm anxious to hear your results.

I keep hearing slippery, slick surface, but that Colt Rail Gun and Rifle bolt were genuinely sticky. I could almost hold it under my finger like that polygrip commercial for them false choppers, the plastic real looking ones, not the wooden ones like George Washington had.

I hope yours are still slippery but I'll never understand why we'd have different results but there's lots of things I don't understand so I'll be ok, really I will.

[340pd]

+1.

I was sometimes self conscious about carrying concealed with a freshly Ballistol cleaned gun. People look at you like you need to wash your socks more often. At my age, people don't bat an eye if they smell the "Icy Hot" aroma that FrogLube has. I like to think of it as olfactory camouflage. :cool:

I have come to notice, the scent to Ballistol mixed with the odor of day old Depends really turns people off.
Getting old isn't for sissies.

[Armybrat]

Try boiling the parts in hot water to get that gummy stuff off. Dad's regiment did that with their small arms in the 1943 Aleutian Campaign.

[OvalNut]

Try boiling the parts in hot water to get that gummy stuff off. Dad's regiment did that with their small arms in the 1943 Aleutian Campaign.

That's the answer right there. Then though, follow up with spraying it down with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. Then, lube lightly and reassemble.


Tim

[AIRret]

Hoppe's, rem oil, and a little slip 2,000. = no problems.
Besides Hoppe's smells good.

[CJB]

I have come to notice, the scent to Ballistol mixed with the odor of day old Depends really turns people off.

To really piss off the missus, I have used Hoppe's Bench Rest, Gunk Engine Bright and the worst of the worst... PB Blaster!

Those smells are a sure fire one way ticket to the casa del pooch.

[downtownv]

I would guess some people made lots of money with be latest blah blah blah. But at the end of the day the good old fashion stuff never failed and probably never will.

[kenemoore]

I have actually come to kinda like the smell of Ballistol, cleaned my carry piece with it this morning. It never even crossed my mind that others could smell the stuff. I clean with ballistol, then use synthetic ATF and Super lube. The super lube is odorless, but the ATF is sort of smelly, maybe that overpowers the Ballistol, and everyone I encounter things I'm a grease monkey or something. Probably the something.

[dustnchips]

I have never heard of lubing the firing pin in a bolt rifle. Always run them dry.
Tomorrow I am ordering an Anderson Tactical AM15 with RF85. Its and AR that you do not lube. They put 4000 rounds through one in 4 hours and melted down the hand guard but the gun kept functioning. In the test against an oiled gun, the oiled gun started to have failures after 1000 rounds. You clean the gun with soap and water!!! No oil to get sticky or gather dust. Seems like a great idea and I hope it is worth the $250 upcharge over the regular version. It's not a coating, but some kind of treatment in the metal that reduces the friction by 85% over a standard oiled gun. It came down to the Anderson in a carbine length gas tube with the RF85 treatment or an Aero Precision with a mid length gas tube. I like the idea of putting it away for a month or two and just grabbing it and shooting.

[Ed M]

......spraying it down with non-chlorinated brake cleaner.

This. I do this to every weapon I put froglube on, and that would be every handgun I own. Froglube doesn't play well with other lube, and I've seen it make that sticky mess on a knife I treated without spraying it down first.

I check all my weapons when they leave the safe, and when they go back in. Never a problem with any of them, and have taken them to the range in some sub freezing temps. Some of my guns have never had anything but froglube on them after stripping all the factory lube off.

Not a fan of froglube degreaser. Gunscrubber/brake cleaner (synthetic safe) works much better, and is a lot quicker. It gets ALL of the other lube off, and out of places it doesn't need to be - like firing pin channels. I respray through that little access hole every few cleanings just to be on the safe side, and disassemble my carry pieces and clean/check that channel every few months. No problem so far...

[skiflydive]

So I'm a little chastened. I field stripped my P380 and my CM9. Both were clean and showed no build up or caking of the FrogLube. The exterior of both barrels were a little "draggy" to the touch. I ran to the range and put a couple of mags through both and had no problem. Brought them home and detail stripped them. The "draginess" was gone, likely due to the heat of firing. The striker channel in the 380 was pretty clean but had some lube residue. Strange because I never lube it and I had changed the striker a couple of hundred rounds ago and cleaned it out well when I did. The CM9 was a different story. I had never detail stripped it and the striker channel was full of gunk. I cleaned both guns well with brake clean and lightly lubed with Hoppe's. I'm OK with the FrogLube. It did everything as advertised. The only thing that made me switch was that slight "draginess" to the touch. It might have been that I used it too generously and didn't wipe off enough of the excess or that I don't shoot often enough, but to my mind that drag and gun slides don't belong together. IMHO use FrogLube if you like but use it very sparingly and shoot often. Final lube results...inconclusive. As to all the people who are decrying newfangled stuff...I like trying newfangled. Finally got rid of my buggy whips and wide white walls. Heck, I even have a smart phone and don't use pencils anymore. You can't have my '72 Mini though...That's old school I'm sticking with. Thanks for this thread. Thought provoking at the least.

[Bawanna]

You got rid of your wide white walls! Blasphemy!!!!

I'm not opposed to new fangled and I'm guilty at times of jumping on new unproven stuff especially guns. I've been very lucky for the most parts, really no pigs in the bunch.

I to enjoy and most likely prefer old stuff, older the better, old ways, old tools, old guns, old wome, no not old women.

I'm going to suggest to my sniper to experiment with smaller amounts but I doubt he'll ever unscrew the lid on a bottle of Frog Lube again.

[CJB]

No story about lubrication would be complete, without a flashback to my old school chum, a certain Mr. Dave S.

Dave had the extreme hots for a certain gal, named Pam. Pam was attractive, blonde, rather leggy in a nice way, and had ample bosom and a nice tushie. IOW, drop dead gorgeous. The kind of gorgeous that made her lonely, since every guy thought she was obviously too good for the likes of himself.

Well, cutting to the chase, somehow old Dave got to his ultimate destination with Pam in her bedroom. He reached over to the nightstand to grab her tube of KY, instead grabbing a tube of Head & Shoulders. The rest was school history, as apparently Head & Shoulders burns much more severely if you get it on your schnauzer than in your eyes.

That was the end of the Dave and Pam story.

And, does Head and Shoulders still come in a tube? And who keeps shampoo in their nightstand with KY? Just askin!

[berettabone]

It's not only about new fangled, it's about what works, and if you can purchase something that works for a lot less money. Why throw away excess money for something that doesn't work any better than anything else? There have been tests over and over again about firearm lubricants. They have Hillary as their spokesperson.......................want to keep spending extra money needlessly, go for it............I'll use it for ammo.

[AIRret]

Has anyone used "weapon shield? Another new product.

[Bawanna]

I've used Barricade which used to be called something else, can't recall what, but pretty sure it's the same stuff.

I think Weapon Shield and Barricade are intended more for long term storage.

For that purpose Du Lite is my favorite but it's hard to find the stuff at least around here. If anybody stumbles on it in your neck of the woods let me know, I'm about out and could use a couple cans.

[Ed M]

Best as I can tell, Barricade used to be called "Sheath". It's a Birchwood Casey product. I have an old can of it... Ballistol can be tough to find in these parts, which is how I wound up trying FrogLube. I put FrogLube on a very short leash, and if I see any signs of trouble, it's back to Ballistol for this boy. I finally found a local dealer that carries Ballistol, and stocked up. I KNOW it works, and it's terrific for black powder too.

You can find that DuLite stuff here:

http://www.dulite.com/dulite_oils_lubricants.html

[Bawanna]

Best as I can tell, Barricade used to be called "Sheath". It's a Birchwood Casey product. I have an old can of it... Ballistol can be tough to find in these parts, which is how I wound up trying FrogLube. I put FrogLube on a very short leash, and if I see any signs of trouble, it's back to Ballistol for this boy. I finally found a local dealer that carries Ballistol, and stocked up. I KNOW it works, and it's terrific for black powder too.

You can find that DuLite stuff here:

http://www.dulite.com/dulite_oils_lubricants.html

Yeah, I've visited the website but I think you have to order a case of 12 cans. Far more than I need, I've tried to get a group together to divide it up some but haven't succeeded yet.

Ballistol is sold at Brownells or most any on line gun shop supplier. I can get that for you anytime you can't find it.

And your exactly right, it used to be called Sheath. I liked the smell, can't vouch for how good it works but it seemed to.

[getsome]

I have used Weapon Shield when they were giving a sample tube away a while back....Nothing special about it that I could see just a very light, thin oil.....I currently use Slip 2000 EWL and like it very well as it lubes nicely but then dries so you don't have an oily slippery gun....I think where people get into trouble is mixing different products that chemically don't like one another....I found out the hard way that Breakfree CLP and Remoil will turn into a gummy glue....I completely locked up a Smith 686 and liked to have never gotten that mess out of the lock works....Now as for smell I kinda like how Ballistol smells and like to wipe down the outside of my blued guns with it....I also like Hoppe's and love how Marvel Mystery Oil smells.....

[Bobshouse]

Hoppes here. Come home, break the gun open, put the barrel in a jar of hoppes and let it soak till Im ready to run a snake through it. Only one problem, Im afraid to try that with my Kahr barrels, heard it eats the finish...

Then I lube everything with superlube, a synthetic grease.

Reassemble, done.

[CJB]

Hoppes here. Come home, break the gun open, put the barrel in a jar of hoppes and let it soak till Im ready to run a snake through it.

First - Olive jars are dandy for that. Been there, done that. Second, Kahr barrels are nickel plated and as such, the plating is porous. There is a fine copper wash under the nickel. The pores in the nickel let the Hoppe's, through. Hoppe's contains ammonia. Ammonia will eat that copper pretty quick and the nickel will first discolor, then begin to flake. A non-ammonia solvent will do no harm, and you can use any of the non-ammonia ones to do the same task, even good old WD-40 with a little mineral spirits added will work. Ditto things like PB Blaster work good for that task as well, and neither will harm nickel finish.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ yep. No more Hoppes since I bought a shotgun with a nickel plated receiver.

[AIRret]

Hey, thanks for all the weapons shield comments!
We keep our antennas out for possible new stuff……BUT it is still Hopps, rem oil and slip 2000. We have put many thousands of round through various guns and that formula has always worked!! If we try something else…….it won't be in a carry gun!

[jeepster09]

This is where frog lube comes from.....a mixture of:

[SaltyNC]

I think most lubes are fine and work well for pistols. After all, we're not talking about a demanding environment in the scheme of things when lubing a slide rail. I made the decision to try Frog Lube. Yeah, it's overpriced coconut oil, but I apply it with my finger and don't worry about getting cancer from using it, and it doesn't stink up the house. I guess I've been using it now for about six months with zero issues. But, I do clean my pistols within hours every time they are shot. I shoot at least twice a month, most of the time I shoot weekly. So, nothing is staying on my pistols for long. I could probably use Crisco or Astroglide or even spit and get good results on my pistols. In my environment, I love Frog Lube. I do not heat anything. I just apply it with my finger and the heat of my finger melts the product, let it sit a minute, then wipe it off. It leaves the tiniest amount of residue, film, or whatever you want to call it. I am never leaving enough to see the color of the product. I think so many people apply it like grease and leave it that way. Maybe Frog Lube should tell people to apply it like wood stain. Wipe it on, wipe it off. If I lived up North, I might consider a different product.

Ballistol is fine, but I prefer the smell of mint over licorice/anise. Have any of you shot a rifle that gets really hot that has been treated with Ballistol? Wow! When Ballistol starts cooking, shoo-wee it stinks. :)

I also love non-chlorinated brake cleaner for a solvent. Frog Lube suggests stripping all petroleum based solvents before applying, and if you think your firearm is stripped, hose it down with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, and you'll see how much petroleum is still on your firearm. The metal will look almost unfinished with many firearms when properly stripped. Then, when you apply Frog Lube or any lube, you'll see that metal darken and even out as a film is left once again.

Well, we all know this subject goes nowhere, and people will keep using whatever they like. For $89 for a 2 oz bottle, you can buy Salty's Mare Grease. Naturally sourced from beating a dead horse to a greasy spot. :tongue:

Salty

[SaltyNC]

I keep hearing slippery, slick surface, but that Colt Rail Gun and Rifle bolt were genuinely sticky. I could almost hold it under my finger like that polygrip commercial for them false choppers, the plastic real looking ones, not the wooden ones like George Washington had.

That is just wild, Bawanna. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with it. I'm just sorry to hear another negative story with Frog Lube. I've never experienced anything like that. Ya'll were using the solid type of Frog Lube, right? That's what I use.

Salty

[Bawanna]

Maybe we didn't clean well enough before the first application and it reacted badly.

[340pd]

The Frog Lube controversy has been around for a long time. If applied properly it does work well. I have been using it for a a couple of years on my revolvers and my poly framed guns. I started using it because of the odors and staining that transferred to clothing from my carry guns. I am very careful not to mix it with any other products. I am diligent in making sure it is all wiped off. It is easy to give my revolvers the once over with a heat gun followed with a quick wipe down just to insure there is no remaining residue. My Froglubed guns are much easier to clean after a range session.
The agencies in our training facility went to Froglube a couple of years ago and have since returned to conventional lubes. Armorers like the look of heavy lube on their guns and never understood how to use the Froglube product. Many cops just tend to hurry through the cleaning process and most never really grasped the concept anyway. One quick look in the cleaning room and I saw them mixing solvent, grease, and Froglube all on the same Glock. Trouble waiting to happen.

I don't recommend or endorse the product, it just gives me the results I am looking for.

[Bawanna]

I suspect your onto something with the mixing and matching. And apparently wiping off all the excess if important, more important than I thought.

Your right about watching cops clean their guns. I don't enjoy it much. Some of course are quite diligent and thorough, others not so much.

This is evident by those that can take 2 hours to clean a gun and others are done in 10 minutes.

Also hard to keep proper cleaning stuff on hand for them (one of my jobs). And they are hard on stuff. Instructor asked to borrow my 45 bore brush that I've used for probably 10 years. In 10 minutes he brought it back and I threw it in the trash, I don't know what he did with it but had to be more than swabbing out a Glock barrel.

[CPTKILLER]

I've never used it either. It is for sale at the local cop shop in Austin. Therefore it is being used by LEOs here.

[gb6491]

Maybe we didn't clean well enough before the first application and it reacted badly.
Applied as per their instructions, Frog Glue didn't work for me on a cold AZ morning quail hunt. The walk back to my Jeep and that I once again had a repeating arm after slapping some 10W30 on my 11-48 left me with no motivation to continue the use of FL. I didn't do any special cleaning at the Jeep, just pulled the dipstick and dripped oil into the action. Perhaps there are lubes that FL interacts badly with, but that wasn't my experience with motor oil.
However, to each his own.
Regards,
Greg

[skiflydive]

So as I mentioned previously, I lubed my Kahrs with a light application of Hoppes. Since it's apparently harmful to nickel plating I'm wondering about the wisdom of even doing that.

[Bawanna]

I've used mostly Hoppes on my Kahrs, I use it sparingly on all guns, don't soak them in it or anything like that.

I consider it a solvent and wipe it all off and then oil with something else.

I've not seen any evidence of issues to be concerned about.

[marshal kane]

So as I mentioned previously, I lubed my Kahrs with a light application of Hoppes. Since it's apparently harmful to nickel plating I'm wondering about the wisdom of even doing that.
I have a two-tone P9 barrel caused by leaving the chamber end of my barrel to soak for ten minutes or so in a jar of Hoppe's. Bad mojo! Don't soak nickel plated parts in Hoppe's. A wipe-on/wipe-off will not likely hurt but use your own judgement. The Hoppe's label even warns of it attacking nickel but it's in fine print which I failed to read because I was too lazy to go get my reading glasses. I still occasionally swab out the bore with Hoppe's but no more soaking! The damage is mostly cosmetic but still a reminder of the dangers in NOT carefully reading labels.

[AIRret]

I've used mostly Hoppes on my Kahrs, I use it sparingly on all guns, don't soak them in it or anything like that.

I consider it a solvent and wipe it all off and then oil with something else.

I've not seen any evidence of issues to be concerned about.

+1 On that. We use hoppes and wipe it off have have never had any damage!

[johnatw]

Has anybody used Blu or Black Diamond products? The Blu is advertised to remove rust.