I really want a CW380 or P380 but i'm hesitant

[Antiacus]

Here's the issue:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/c50P7HCAATo/hqdefault.jpg

You have this chincey slide release spring mated to a steel spring release screw that goes into a plastic frame with a big warning not to overtighten.

All the other issues i feel i can deal with. I know the cw380 doesn't like fiocchi ammo, don't care that much, i think there's even a work around for it. I've felt the pistol and it's amazing. Typical Kahr buttery smooth trigger that is a work of art. The ergonomics are astoundingly good for a pistol of the size. Pick one up, then the smorgasbord of competitors (lcp et al) and they're universes apart.

I've owned one other Kahr. A CM45 that i loved dearly.

Is my concern overblown? Anyone have issues with this part?

[CJB]

Your concern is a bit overblown, yes, I'd say.

That spring sometimes need tweakage, but once set, seems to stay put and last a long long time.

Four Kahr pistols here. One had a spring issue, and once that was determined, it was an easy fix. The "do not overtighten" caution is just that, a caution. Worst case - you over tighten and strip out some polymer. Hello JB weld or Accraglass or other strong epoxy type filler. Actually... if you use some stainless powder in with Accraglass, its stronger than the original poly nylon-66 is. But try not to strip the screw out. Its easy to just snug it up and forget about it for next to forever.

My own tweakage was due to the spring being bent laterally, which held the slide stop out laterally just a mm or so, and... it would occasionally hang up, only while hand racking. I thought it was my finger hitting it while racking, tried this and that. It was the spring. No biggie, out came the spring, a little counter tweak with needle nose pliers, in goes the spring. Done. Hasn't hiccuped since.

There are little grooves in the washer that hold it, so that once its positioned, it tends to stay put.

That's about all I can think of. Its something misunderstood, feared, avoided... by folks, but.... its just a little spring, easily replaced, and easily repaired.

[Antiacus]

Your concern is a bit overblown, yes, I'd say.

That spring sometimes need tweakage, but once set, seems to stay put and last a long long time.

Four Kahr pistols here. One had a spring issue, and once that was determined, it was an easy fix. The "do not overtighten" caution is just that, a caution. Worst case - you over tighten and strip out some polymer. Hello JB weld or Accraglass or other strong epoxy type filler. Actually... if you use some stainless powder in with Accraglass, its stronger than the original poly nylon-66 is. But try not to strip the screw out. Its easy to just snug it up and forget about it for next to forever.

My own tweakage was due to the spring being bent laterally, which held the slide stop out laterally just a mm or so, and... it would occasionally hang up, only while hand racking. I thought it was my finger hitting it while racking, tried this and that. It was the spring. No biggie, out came the spring, a little counter tweak with needle nose pliers, in goes the spring. Done. Hasn't hiccuped since.

There are little grooves in the washer that hold it, so that once its positioned, it tends to stay put.

That's about all I can think of. Its something misunderstood, feared, avoided... by folks, but.... its just a little spring, easily replaced, and easily repaired.

Thanks CJB that helps ease my mind.

[Bills1873]

CJB says it straight on. CM45 and a PM9, no issue, don't even think about it.

[marshal kane]

Not a problem with my P9 either. Screw was set at the factory and I've never had cause to touch it. 2K+ rounds through my P9 as of last Thursday.

[dustnchips]

PM9 used, CW380 used a great deal, CW380 new. No problem with any of them.

[SmokyT]

I own a P380 and have not experienced any issue with the particular part (though I have had some issues with the original striker). Some individual P380 pistols may need a bit of tweeking, but once you have the bugs worked out, it is a joy to shoot. Very reliable and accurate. Overall, it is a well-built pocket gun.

[wayneo1]

I was worried about the same exact thing but I ordered my p380 last week and I have been shooting it this week. So far pretty happy, took it apart a few times no problem putting back together and I didn't damage the spring and if I do Kahr has great customer service they'll help me out. Mean while finally I have a gun I can put in my back pocket and it shoots just as good as my MK 9 which is cool.

[jtsmall]

Is there a spec on tightening the torx screw. Kahr suggested I check to see if it's loose as I'm experiencing premature slide locks.

And if loose to snug it a little.

Thanks.

-jts

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[LeeTn]

In response to the op, my CW380 has no problem with Fiocchi Extrema 90 gr. XTP.

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[Bobshouse]

Your CM45 has the exact same part, yet you state you had no problems with it. Answered your own question.

[Papersniper]

I cannot address your concern with that spring, but in my experience of field stripping my gun maybe 5 times I do not recall any issues with it. Plenty of issues taking it down and back together (read somewhere in another thread), but no issues with that tiny spring....but one has to use caution when inserting the slip stop pin. My Kahrs are more difficult to field strip than all my other guns (other than a Ruger Mk III), but they are also among the most accurate, and have other attributes (small size) that keep them in my inventory.

I have only shot mine a little over 200 rounds. However, it has been flawless with the 50 rounds or so of my carry ammo: Fiocchi Extrema XTP. Below is a recap of what I've shot and my comments:

Kahr cw380 Wear in started Aug 2016: (total rounds in CW380 = 200+ rounds as of Oct 2016)
*Speer Lawman 95 gr FMJ - 100 perfect for me. About 100 rounds without failure.
American Eagle NO! NO! NO! - too many FTF - Save for Glock 42
GECO FMJ – Do not use. Failure to eject which causes a round jamming into that one. About the same as American Eagle.
Maxx FMMJ - Do not use. Failure to eject which causes a round jamming into that one. Worst of any ammo I've tried.


SD Ammo:
*Fiocchi Extrema 90gr XTP - Tried - 100% perfect for me, two boxes through gun Oct 2016.
Fed Hydra-Shok - not tried in CW 380 yet Oct 2016

[SaltyNC]

As you're looking at ammo, I would just suggest buying single 50-round boxes until you find what your CW380 likes, because my experience is 180 degrees from Papersniper. My CW380 was broken in with American Eagle and performed flawlessly after break-in. However, my CW380 never did like Fiocchi. I shot 50 rounds of it a few weeks back just for kicks, and I still had a couple of malfunctions. There is a thread that describes taking a small amount of material off the extractor as a fix. Also, Winchester flat nose likes to hang up on the feed ramp in my CW380. For SD, I use Precision XTP. The XTP bullets feed reliably and do well in ballistic gel tests. So, all that to say, the CW380 in my experience can be ammo-sensitive, but it's a very accurate pistol and a pleasure to shoot for being such a tiny pistol.

Salty

[CPTKILLER]

Get it or one like my MK9!

[Papersniper]

"..So, all that to say, the CW380 in my experience can be ammo-sensitive, but it's a very accurate pistol and a pleasure to shoot for being such a tiny pistol."

Ditto! Our experiences with ammo preferences for the CW380 just show how individual these tiny pistols can be! I am also surprised mine is not reliable with American Eagle, as I've never had any issues with that in any of my firearms; pistol or rifles. I bought 200 rounds of American Eagle for the wear in process, but quit trying it after about 50 rounds of failures. The Lawman FMJ worked 100%. On the Fiocchi, mine works 100% with the XTP bullet, their "Extrema" load. I've never tried Fiocchi's FMJ because I heard so many negative comments on that load. But their Extrema loading sure works well in my CW380 and it is my carry ammo in both my Glock and the Kahr. I still need to test my CW380 with some Federal Hydra-Shok I have on hand. That works fine with my Glock 42, but I have not gotten around to testing it in the Kahr yet.

[lamppa]

I would guess, and this is only a guess, it's around 10 inch pounds

[jtsmall]

I would guess, and this is only a guess, it's around 10 inch pounds
Thanks.

I applied enough torque with my calibrated elbow to satisfy me that it was snug as shipped. I believe that's what support was expecting.


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[Ikeo74]

I have 2 Kahrs, a CM9 and a MK9, but I jumped ship on the 380 and bought a Remington RM380. No failures of any kind in 200 fired rounds.

[wayneo1]

I now have over 200 rounds through my p380. Including 100 rounds of winchester with the flat nose. It does not like winchester but to use it up I found that if I put one or two round nose bullets in the magazine last I could shoot the whole magazine. Wouldn't buy them anymore. I also used federal and blazer brass no problem 👌. The p380 was easy shooting just as everyone has said, and it's a whole lot easier than Sig p 230 which I sold because it beat me up. Accurate and easy to shoot I highly recommend

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[ZardozCZ]

I've read the many woes from cw380 owners, so broke the chain of K9, CM9, K9 black, MK9, and bought a CZ83. Best decision made in ages. It's a great shooter and I surprise myself how easy it is to shoot accurately and fast at the same time. Almost makes me think I'm a good shot sometimes. Oh, it's been flawless with SD rounds to light reloads for the girlfriend and everything in between. The CW380 is a sweet size, but I don't want to carry anything that's finicky.

[jtsmall]

Here's the issue:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/c50P7HCAATo/hqdefault.jpg

You have this chincey slide release spring mated to a steel spring release screw that goes into a plastic frame with a big warning not to overtighten.
.
.
I've owned one other Kahr. A CM45 that i loved dearly.

Is my concern overblown? Anyone have issues with this part?

Yes, me.

My CW380 has been experiencing premature slide lock at random points in the magazine stack. This is indicative of a inadequately tightened, poorly adjusted or weak spring. This spring both holds the slide stop in securely and prevents the slide stop from randomly activating and prematurely locking back the slide.

You had a CM45 you loved. As luck would have it I stumbled across a video explaining how to adjust this spring with a CW45 as the example. Found in the subforum posted by b4uqzmd here http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?29837-New-cw380-is-this-normal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50P7HCAATo&app=desktop

I can tell you that my spring is easily moved under the washer that the torx screw secures and this is what was demostrated as the cause in that video. I've previously snugged up that screw but, like you, I was concerned with applying too much torque. As a result the spring could still be moved. And that's how it came out of the box and thought it normal. So I consider this either a QC issue or perhaps at least it should be explained in the owner's manual. I'm certainly all in with DIY philosophy.

As I have been experiencing 1 to 2 premature slide locks per magazine it's likely I'll know shortly how well this fix works. Frankly after watching the video and from a couple of the comments posted to your OP I think it'll work. Also likely this is a common problem with Kahr's and might be in the forum stickies - it's been a while since I looked them over.

I'll add that my copy of the CW380 also was cartridge brand particular as many in KahrTalk have well documented. It poorly loaded most and simply would not load Fiocchi. This has also been discuss in this subforum and a fix was worked out by Tigman250 that allows an additional 5 to 15 thou clearance between the ejector hook and the breach face. However, I elected not to apply this fix before sending the pistol to Kahr. They fixed it so my CW380 eats all the ammo I feed it including the maligned Fiocchi. Kahr's repair comments simiply list 'updated the ejector.'

You can find that thread here http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26232-Found-solution-to-FTF-and-failure-to-return-tobattery-on-CW-380

-jts

PS. And of course there is a sticky that explains this and much else for the polymer Kahrs located in the first post on page 1 here ...
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?14749-CW45-(and-other-poly-45)-issues-and-fixes
There's a limited but real market for a Sweeny type book called something like KAHR PISTOLS EXPLAINED.

[jtsmall]

... my spring is easily moved under the washer that the torx screw secures and this is what was demostrated as the cause in that video. I've previously snugged up that screw but, like you, I was concerned with applying too much torque. As a result the spring could still be moved. And that's how it came out of the box and thought it normal.
The CW380 was returned for warranty service (purchase new September 23, 2016) to Kahr due the premature slide lock and received yesterday. Given both I and another experienced Kahr owner had independently snugged the torx screw to secure the slide lock spring I didn't want to risk stripping the polymer threads by additional tightening.

Also there may also be another issue here of which I'm unaware. For example service requested all the magazines used be included.

-jts

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[SlowBurn]

I've read the many woes from cw380 owners, so broke the chain of K9, CM9, K9 black, MK9, and bought a CZ83. Best decision made in ages. It's a great shooter and I surprise myself how easy it is to shoot accurately and fast at the same time. Almost makes me think I'm a good shot sometimes. Oh, it's been flawless with SD rounds to light reloads for the girlfriend and everything in between. The CW380 is a sweet size, but I don't want to carry anything that's finicky.

I don't consider mine finicky at all. I've had both a P380 and CW380 a long time with lots of rounds through the P380 particularly (CW was newer and got stolen last year) I've had very minimal issues over the years considering how much use its had, all resolved by factory service with no "its out of warranty" stuff.
But any tiny semi-auto is unforgiving by nature. You have to have your grip right and wrist locked or it WILL malfunction. The the price of carrying something so comfortable is you have to get to the range regularly to retain muscle memory. This is where the little Kahrs have a big advantage over, say an LCP. They're pleasant to shoot and accurate, so a trip to the range is not torture. But if you're not willing to put in at least some range time every month, its better to carry a small 38 revolver or a larger 380 semi imo. Both are more forgiving of a little sloppiness.

[allthumbsplusone]

I have a used p380, and a new pm9. I have never had a y type of failures with either of those. My pm45 was a bit stubborn at first but runs well now after break in with freedom ammunition 230's, Ranger T 230,and Federal Hydroshock. The CW45 I had was a complete dud. Every kind of failure and the workmanship was very sub par to say the least. It was really the only handgun I despised owning.

[nmkahrshooter]

Yes I did have a problem with that part. It was on a cw45 and failed at the range while shooting. Scared the crap out of me! Got it fixed and sold the gun.

[jtsmall]

Follow up to #22 above...

The bottom line is that my copy of the similar sized Ruger LCP 2 runs all the ammo that my copy of the CW380 chokes on with all the malfunctions discussed here and elsewhere. After two service trips for these issues Kahr has steadily eliminated each. Even Fiocchi feeds reliably for now.

However I'm left with premature slide lock about every 20 to 25 rounds. This doesn't happen with my copy of the CM9 and stock 6 and 7 round magazines. Careful study of both the CW380 and CM9 components and my technique (standard two hand grip) suggests the slide lock spring is adjusted too loosely to resist my right thumb (right handed hold) brushing the inferior margin and nudging the slide lock and thereby engaging the slide lock with rounds still in the magazine.

I like the 1911 inspired slide lock but in a defensive scenario Kahr's implementation on the CW380 is risky. Not so with the Ruger's Glock-like slide lock implementation.

Given the precise tolerances that are apparently required for flawless function these failures collectively have kept my copy out of carry rotation - which is the only reason I purchased this model.

I plan to return this auto to Kahr after another range session of two. Perhaps the Kahr technicians will spot another cause I am overlooking and correct. Perhaps my grip is flawed for this diminutive auto.

By comparison I find my copy of the CM9 and K9 continuing to perform flawlessly and both a joy at the range.

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[jtsmall]

Prior to heading out for the range I decided to tackle adjusting the slide stop spring. There is a YouTube video that shows the procedure well here http://bit.ly/2l6YHzD especially at the 2:00 mark and beyond.

For my purpose of eliminating premature slide lock with rounds remaining in the magazine I removed most of the play between the stop spring and the stop tab, with the stop inserted of course. This should keep the stop from engaging with occasional light pressure from my left thumb during firing. First I removed the magazine, stop and slide. Then loosening the spring screw I progressively lower the stop spring until I was satisfied that most, but not all, of the play was eliminated. I verified this by reinserting the slide stop, with the slide remaining off, and checked that most of the play was gone.

At this time I inserted an empty magazine to apply upward pressure on the slide stop tab that lies under the spring. With the stock 6 round magazine (stock spring and follower) I confirmed that the stop was forced upward so as to lock back the slide with the empty magazine. This required repeating the spring and screw seating several times. During this time I found that my backup 6 and 7 round magazines with the MagGuts spring and follower installed more fully pressed the slide lock upward. Indeed, on reassembling the slide and slide stop I found that frequently the empty stock magazine would fail to lock the slide back but both magazines with MagGuts were repeatedly successful locking back the slide.

Next step is to proof this fix at the range in live fire. If I find the slide fails to lock back reliably then I will be prepared to repeat the adjustment until satisfied. More after the next range trip.


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[Papersniper]

Follow up to #22 above...

The bottom line is that my copy of the similar sized Ruger LCP 2 runs all the ammo that my copy of the CW380 chokes on with all the malfunctions discussed here and elsewhere. After two service trips for these issues Kahr has steadily eliminated each. Even Fiocchi feeds reliably for now.

However I'm left with premature slide lock about every 20 to 25 rounds. This doesn't happen with my copy of the CM9 and stock 6 and 7 round magazines. Careful study of both the CW380 and CM9 components and my technique (standard two hand grip) suggests the slide lock spring is adjusted too loosely to resist my right thumb (right handed hold) brushing the inferior margin and nudging the slide lock and thereby engaging the slide lock with rounds still in the magazine.

I like the 1911 inspired slide lock but in a defensive scenario Kahr's implementation on the CW380 is risky. Not so with the Ruger's Glock-like slide lock implementation.

Given the precise tolerances that are apparently required for flawless function these failures collectively have kept my copy out of carry rotation - which is the only reason I purchased this model.

I plan to return this auto to Kahr after another range session of two. Perhaps the Kahr technicians will spot another cause I am overlooking and correct. Perhaps my grip is flawed for this diminutive auto.

By comparison I find my copy of the CM9 and K9 continuing to perform flawlessly and both a joy at the range.

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I suspect you are correct. These very small pistols are not very forgiving, especially if one had large hands. I have small hands and do not have problems like you are having, but I can understand your frustration. You may just find that the CW380 will not work for you....perhaps nothing wrong with the pistol, it's just your hand and hold won't work with it.

[jtsmall]

Prior to heading out for the range I decided to tackle adjusting the slide stop spring. There is a YouTube video that shows the procedure well here http://bit.ly/2l6YHzD especially at the 2:00 mark and beyond.
.
.
Next step is to proof this fix at the range in live fire. If I find the slide fails to lock back reliably then I will be prepared to repeat the adjustment until satisfied. More after the next range trip.

Got to the range about a week later, ran 100 rounds without failures. I did experience failure of slide to lock back after last round once when i ran the stock 6 round mag - I only used this stock mag once to check that it would not lock back on the last round, as I expected it to not lock back. However this never happened with 6 or 7 round mags sporting the Magguts sping and follower. The reason is that the Magguts follower pushes up on the slide lock (only when the magazine is empty) more than the stock follower and therefore firmly locks the slide back on an empty mag.

This is necessary as I had adjusted the slide lock spring tight enough to essentially remove all free play in the slide lock to prevent premature slide lock before the magazine is empty. I suspect it may be possible to fiddle with the slide lock spring so that the stock mag works but since I prefer the Magguts both for the quality metal follower and the extra one round capacity I'm leavnig well enough alone.

The rounds used in this specific test were all FMJ, both Remington and Buffalo remanufactured.

Given the issues getting to this point of what appears to now be a reliable gun I'm putting at least another hundred FMJ though it before reconsidering returning my copy of the Kahr CW380 to concealed carry.

As for the 'issues getting to this point' my experience suggests that the OP is right on point with his concerns about the slide stop spring and the nature of the attachment that secures it, that is the screw is threaded into plastic and not metal.

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[jtsmall]

Alas, a return to form with frequent FTL over multiple brands of ammo plus most recently a series of light strikes on first round using stock six round magazine (but not six and seven round Magguts conversation magazines). This when north of 1,000 rounds and two RMAs. A third RMA has been issued.

-jts

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[dsk]

Alas, a return to form with frequent FTL over multiple brands of ammo plus most recently a series of light strikes on first round using stock six round magazine (but not six and seven round Magguts conversation magazines). This when north of 1,000 rounds and two RMAs. A third RMA has been issued.

If you're like me you may eventually reach the point where you realize that spending over a thousand dollars on ammo and aftermarket parts trying to de-bug a $300 pistol just isn't worth it. There are too many other guns out there that actually work.