At wits' end with my P380 (light strikes)

[dsk]

As many of you know I have literally been troubleshooting my P380 for the past four years, trying to resolve the issue of light primer strikes. It's always the same, regardless of the brand of ammo. I can get through one 50-round box of ammo just fine, but by the second box I start getting misfires at least once a magazine. I have done the following:

1. Thorough cleaning of the striker channel, including deburring
2. Lakeline striker
3. New extractor
4. New recoil springs
5. Polished feed ramp and chamber
6. Reduced extractor tension (recent fix attempt)

I was under the belief that maybe the slide wouldn't go fully into battery, but today I went into full diagnostic mode and after each shot I made sure the slide was all the way in battery. Even after making sure it was I still had misfires. However, what I found out was that even during the first 50 rounds when the pistol was working, some empty cases showed solid hits while others showed weak hits. One empty case would have a deep indent, and the next one that was fired right afterwards would have a light indent. Then the next one would be deep again. It's as if the striker isn't always allowed to jump forward without something slowing it down, and then it gets worse as the pistol warms up or gets dirty. I have been checking the strikers (both OEM and Lakeline) for signs of peening or other wear, but they look perfect still. What in blue blazes is going on with this damn thing??? What haven't I tried yet? Is there a stronger striker spring out there? Maybe a problem with the cam? What makes this even more annoying is the fact that in all the thousands of rounds of trial and error this pistol has virtually never had a failure to feed, extract or eject. In other words, except for this ONE damn problem it's completely flawless. If it jammed besides misfiring I'd have the excuse I needed to just throw it into the nearest lake, but I keep feeling like I'm close to solving this. Going on 3000 rounds of testing so far...

[zredwire]

Wow that sucks! Have you taken a good look at the striker spring guide to make sure it looks okay? You may want to replace the striker spring also. Have you ever sent it back to Kahr for repair?

[topgun1953]

dsk, I feel your pain. If you haven't already, search this forum for 'p380 light primer strikes' and check out some of the threads. I had read in one of them a while back where there was an issue with the striker block not being depressed enough at the correct instant. I've had multiple issues with mine..striker 5-7 times (I have Lakeline now), broken trigger bar, bent front rail (resulted in new frame). They've replaced the slide twice and barrel once when I've sent it in for the striker...like you, I have not come up with a definate reason for the occasional light strikes I get so I'll be watching this thread!!!

[dsk]

Wow that sucks! Have you taken a good look at the striker spring guide to make sure it looks okay? You may want to replace the striker spring also. Have you ever sent it back to Kahr for repair?

The striker spring and guide look fine, but I have no way of knowing if the spring is weak without getting a replacement first. Since the pistol has been like this since Day One I don't think so. I should have sent it back to Kahr then, but I was reading so many threads on here of folks sending their guns in, Kahr swapping out a bunch of parts willy-nilly, and the guns coming back running the same or even worse. I decided instead to solve the issue myself. Even though it's out of warranty I could probably still send it in, but do you honestly think Kahr is going to be bothered to put 100+ rounds through it to diagnose the problem? And if they do will it come back with a different problem? My issue is that I know it's gotta be something simple, because it works perfectly otherwise. And because I know it's gotta be something simple I've been at it for a couple of years! I'm thinking maybe the next thing to do is replace the cocking cam. Fortunately the parts for these little guns are dirt cheap so I can afford to keep swapping them out.

[Bobshouse]

Have you tried the old pencil test? Stick the pencil (eraser) end into the barrel, aim it up and pull the trigger (this is done with the gun unloaded, of course). See how high and how evenly it jumps up from the gun each pull of the trigger. Very easy way to determine if you are having light strikes.

[gb6491]

dsk, I feel your pain. If you haven't already, search this forum for 'p380 light primer strikes' and check out some of the threads. I had read in one of them a while back where there was an issue with the striker block not being depressed enough at the correct instant. I've had multiple issues with mine..striker 5-7 times (I have Lakeline now), broken trigger bar, bent front rail (resulted in new frame). They've replaced the slide twice and barrel once when I've sent it in for the striker...like you, I have not come up with a definate reason for the occasional light strikes I get so I'll be watching this thread!!!
I purchased a used P380 that had random light strikes and replacing the cocking cam finally fixed the issue. It's my belief that the lobe on the original cam that depresses the striker block was not "tall" enough. It was close, so the striker could sometimes power past the block, other times it would not. Here's the whole story:http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?25541-A-used-P380-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly-and-a-happy-ending (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?25541-A-used-P380-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly-and-a-happy-ending)
Regards,
Greg

[dsk]

Thanks for the link to that thread, that was great info. Unfortunately my pistol is #RC6xxx and appears to have the newer, thinner cocking cam already. I can't say with 100% certainty as I was just eyeballing it compared to your pics, but it looks like the newer one. My ejector also looks different than yours, although that by itself isn't relevant to my problem.

Of course I could still have a bad cocking cam regardless, as there may have been more than one revision. Right now I'm looking at the wear areas with a magnifying glass and trying to see how everything mates up. It's easier right now with fresh carbon deposits on everything.

[finpro]

A useful product to identify tight mating spots is "Dykem Brite-Mark". This is recommended by Apex Tactical for use in installing their Smith & Wesson M&P9 pistol replacement barrels. This is a dye applied to parts to see how they interact when moving in contact with each other. I bought mine from Amazon in the form of a paint marker, like a Magic Marker. (It also comes in cans, which is probably overkill for this project and messier to use.) You can probably do the same thing with a Magic Marker type pen, but Dykem is made for this purpose and may work better. If you do this, I recommend using it on the striker, especially the tip, and other parts that might even remotely be involved with striker movement.

If you find any issue with the striker, you might try partially assembling the slide with metal polish covering all surfaces which contact others, omitting the extractor and striker safety block, them moving the striker back and forth, by hand, against the striker spring tension. A few minutes of working it will cause the polish to smooth any tight rubbing surfaces which might interfere with adequately strong striker movement. Of course, the polish must be removed before returning the pistol to service. I have done this and it does no harm to the parts. There is no need to replace the slide onto the frame when doing this. Good luck.

[dsk]

I took the slide apart again today (I'm getting really good at it... pretty soon I'll be able to detail-strip a Kahr slide blindfolded) and spent time with just various individual parts installed, seeing how everything moves in relation to one another. With just the striker, FP block and spring in it, and the slide installed on the frame I could see that the cocking cam was lifting the FP block more than enough for the striker to clear it. That really left me with just one other possibility- that something was causing the striker to snag or drag and be slowed down. I did see a lot of wear along the side of the FP block where the striker was rubbing against it, so I polished that part of the FP block really well and also made sure there were no sharp edges anywhere (and no I did not touch the little bump that actually serves as the striker block, so I didn't just disable my own safety). With the pistol reassembled and a chopstick in the barrel I was able to launch it a couple feet in the air over and over, but all that really did is prove that I haven't broken anything yet. I'll have to try shooting it yet again to see if it functions correctly, but I'm not confident that a little more polishing of the internals was all that it needed. Unfortunately with everything appearing to work like it should when screwing with it on the bench I have no clue what to try next if it still doesn't work.

[Alfonse]

It sure sounds like it should work. Please let us know.

[dsk]

It sure sounds like it should work. Please let us know.

Well, the good news is that your striker is holding up really well. All these rounds later and there's virtually no wear on it aside from bluing loss on the contact areas.

[dsk]

I finally got back to the range today after polishing and deburring the FP block. I hardly made it through a complete box of Geco FMJ. About every third round was a light firing pin strike. It was so depressing and embarrassing at the same time... BANG BANG CLICK. BANG CLICK. CLICK. CLICK. BANG BANG CLICK. If anything I made it even worse. Now I'm not sure whether to order a whole bunch of new parts and start all over again or simply sell this POS with full disclosure for a giveaway price.

[topgun1953]

Dsk, sorry to hear that. I guess the cocking cam would be the next thing to consider replacing. It sure must be frustrating!

[dsk]

What makes it so frustrating is how much I have invested in this piece. I bought several spare mags and bought MagGuts kits for each. I bought several holsters specifically for this gun. I've bought a lot of replacement parts including a couple years' supply of replacement recoil springs. I've fired a couple thousand rounds of ammo specifically for the purpose of getting this problem figured out. And why have I bothered? Because when it actually shoots this pistol is phenomenal. Easy to carry and accurate. And I know there are others out there with guns that run nearly 100%.

By the way I purposely did not clean this pistol after the last range outing, because I know the issues start happening as soon as it gets dirty. I was just shocked to see it stumble so badly this trip, especially after everything I've done with it. I would pay Kahr to solve the issue if it wasn't for the fact that they'd likely just replace the recoil spring, fire off one mag and hand it back to me.

[Alfonse]

This is the type of problem that would be great if we could solve it more in person. If the OP and I could go out and shoot our pistols, swap the pistols and parts of pistols until we could see what the problem followed, it would be easy to solve. I'm in the sticks though, so that never happens.

[dsk]

It would be easier if I had my own private place to shoot. Then I could tinker with it and shoot it at the same time. Instead I have to make changes, wait a few weeks to get back to the range, pay the $15 for the range fee only to find out it still doesn't work. Go back home, play with it some more, go back to the range again in a few weeks. Rinse and repeat...

Here I am at home again, and I still can't see anything that looks wrong. It still launches chopsticks with ease...

[jluther820]

I am in the same spot...I guess I'll call Kahr, what a PITA

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[berettabone]

What makes it so frustrating is how much I have invested in this piece. I bought several spare mags and bought MagGuts kits for each. I bought several holsters specifically for this gun. I've bought a lot of replacement parts including a couple years' supply of replacement recoil springs. I've fired a couple thousand rounds of ammo specifically for the purpose of getting this problem figured out. And why have I bothered? Because when it actually shoots this pistol is phenomenal. Easy to carry and accurate. And I know there are others out there with guns that run nearly 100%.

By the way I purposely did not clean this pistol after the last range outing, because I know the issues start happening as soon as it gets dirty. I was just shocked to see it stumble so badly this trip, especially after everything I've done with it. I would pay Kahr to solve the issue if it wasn't for the fact that they'd likely just replace the recoil spring, fire off one mag and hand it back to me.
You've got a lot more patience than I.

[Bawanna]

What makes it so frustrating is how much I have invested in this piece. I bought several spare mags and bought MagGuts kits for each. I bought several holsters specifically for this gun. I've bought a lot of replacement parts including a couple years' supply of replacement recoil springs. I've fired a couple thousand rounds of ammo specifically for the purpose of getting this problem figured out. And why have I bothered? Because when it actually shoots this pistol is phenomenal. Easy to carry and accurate. And I know there are others out there with guns that run nearly 100%.

By the way I purposely did not clean this pistol after the last range outing, because I know the issues start happening as soon as it gets dirty. I was just shocked to see it stumble so badly this trip, especially after everything I've done with it. I would pay Kahr to solve the issue if it wasn't for the fact that they'd likely just replace the recoil spring, fire off one mag and hand it back to me.

I'd contact them and let them know exactly what you've gone through. When you send it, I'd write down everything you've experienced, what you did to try and resolve it and let them have a shot at making it correct.
I think often times there's a loss in translation between the end user, the guy on the phone and the guy on the bench.
Although sometimes the guy on the phone is also on the bench which is a good thing.

No need for frustration. It's disappointing to have to send a new guy back or any gun ever for that matter but sometimes it just needs to happen.

[dustnchips]

Could heat buildup be the thing that causes the problem, not dirt. Things get hot and swell up and no longer slide past each other.

[dsk]

That's what I thought for the longest time, but this last range trip with the pistol stone cold (literally!) it started failing immediately. I'm beginning to think the striker just doesn't have enough oomph to light off all but the softest primers. The striker definitely goes all the way forward each time, because like I said I was able to launch chopsticks into the air over and over when I tried it out after getting back home. I thought maybe the next round in the mag was interfering with the striker, but I had last-round misfires as well so it's not that. So it seems either the striker spring is weak or the cam is releasing the striker early. At least that's theory number #239 and 240.

[dsk]

Range trip 2/8: Tried two boxes of .380: Geco FMJ (the one I've been having the most problems with) and Herters FMJ. Started with a clean, oiled pistol. Right off the get-go I had one failure to fire with the first mag of Geco. The second mag, three. The third, again three. I stopped shooting the Kahr and loaded the remaining Geco into my Glock 42. It fired off the rest of the box without any trouble. I then switched to the Herters. First mag, no failures. Second mag, one failure. Third mag, no failures. Fourth mag, no failures. Fifth, two failures. I fired off the rest through my G42 without failure. I have but one thing left to try: a new striker spring. Considering the problem has clearly gotten worse (I now have problems even with a clean pistol) that is the only thing left I can think of. I have one on order and I'll have to give my final verdict in a week or two.

[dustnchips]

If I ran Kahr I would give you a new one after I ran 500 trouble free rounds of your choice through it. You have suffered too much. Of course I would run accompany out of business with my attitude.

[dsk]

I received the new striker spring today. Installation was straightforward, and as I suspected it is longer and stronger than the old one. But after I reassembled the pistol pulling the trigger actually caused the slide to move backwards. Time for a new set of recoil springs too. Fortunately I already had some new ones on hand, and after about 20 minutes of fussing and cussing I managed to get the guide rod reinserted into the slide and the pistol reassembled. It's now ready for what will be its last range test before I throw the damn thing in the ocean.

[dsk]

It's time for me to rent a boat, guys.

Tried again today with the new striker and recoil springs. I had four light strikes and resulting misfires in 28 rounds of Geco FMJ. I fired the rest of the box through my Glock 42 without a single problem. Tried the next box (Herters), and ended up with three light strikes in 14 rounds. By then I was so pissed I put the Kahr away and fired the rest of my .380 ammo through the G42 just to regain some confidence since it is going to be my new deep concealment piece from now on. I'm sorry guys, but this Kahr is a complete turd. I honestly don't know what to do now, except maybe send it off to Kahr as a last hurrah and with specific instructions to either get it to be able to run two full boxes of ammo without failure or else destroy it. Below is a pic of the three misfires with the Herters that I saved rather than try and fire again. As can be seen the striker still doesn't have quite enough oomph to dent the primers hard enough to reliably set them off each time, even after having replaced the entire guts of the slide.

[dustnchips]

I think I'd send it in with an explanation of all that you have done and demand a new gun. They owe it to you .

[skiflydive]

I certainly can't claim to be an expert, but those look like decent strikes to me...

[u380b]

If the striker spring is not trash (you have a new one)... Then it seems to me there are only three other options. 1. The bullet is not (always) sitting flush up against the breach face (The back wall of the slide). I guess that would be an extractor or slide issue. Some guns have gaps in the chamber so that you can see a little bit of what's going on "in there". But Kahrs are pretty closed. Can't see anything. So if the bullet is not flush, then that extra gap will reduce the penetration of the firing pin. I have two slides for my CW380. And the breach face was kind of rough on one of them. I smoothed it down. 2. The tip of the striker (the firing pin) is too short. This is almost certainly not it since replacing the striker would solve this. Plus it is hard to imagine how you might have a short firing pin (you haven't dropped it, have you? Just kidding). 3. The striker is **not allowed** to move as far forward as possible. Could there be a burr inside the striker chamber inside the slide? Or dirt/grit? Or maybe the hole for the firing pin is a few nanometers too small? Sorry you're having all these troubles.

[Ed M]

Sounds like a trip back to the mother ship is in order.

One thing you may want to try before you send it back is to try some Winchester white box or some Remington UMC through it. American made ammo. I had a some light strike issues with a S&W Bodyguard, and S&W recommended I try some domestic ammo, as the primers were softer than foreign made stuff. Both Geco and Herters (Sellier & Bellot) are foreign made, and have some pretty hard primers.

PMC Bronze (Korean) and Blazer Brass (CCI - USA) also worked well for me too.

[dsk]

Well, using the Glock 42 as the control it's not an ammo issue. Each time I had the problems I finished the box of ammo through the G42 and it fired perfectly. The Kahr hits the primers just enough to leave a dent but not with enough authority to set them off. Sometimes another hit fires them, and sometimes it takes two or more re-hits to set them off. They go bang with the G42 every single time. I could use my third .380, an old Colt Pocket Hammerless as a control but I think by that point I'm just wasting more ammo. I have now replaced the striker, striker spring, extractor, and recoil springs, and polished the firing pin block. I checked the movement of the striker cam and it lifts the FP block out of the way with adequate clearance. At this point it can only be a defect in the barrel or slide causing the round to sit too far away from the breech like u380b suggested. You guys may be right though, as much as I hate to spend another $60 just on shipping I should send it back to Kahr and see what they have to say. I'm just afraid they'll simply replace the springs again, shoot a single mag though it and call it fixed. My luck with factory service hasn't been too good lately.

[erichard]

The G42 is a weak control for the Geco, as all that might prove is that the G42 handles hard European primers better than the Kahr, which may very well be true. The problem you're going to have is, if you send it back in, they almost certainly aren't going to use Geco brand ammo, and if the gun works with name brand American ammo, they will send it back to you saying it works fine. Then you're out the shipping, the effort, and the time without the gun. It's worth testing it with U.S. ammo, and if it works, stick with U.S. ammo ... or consider another gun I suppose. I think it's an ammo related issue till proven otherwise. Maybe it's not, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

I can't remember using European ammo in my CW380, so I can't say for sure. The better control would be another CW380 with the same ammo.

(actually I do remember the one time I bought Tula at Walmart because it was cheap, but it wouldn't even chamber properly...stay away from Tula. I know Geco is Swiss, so good, much better than Tula, although I've read some of it might be from Hungary in forums).

[u380b]

I have a Sig P238 and it HATES Tula ammo. Studying the Tula round is saw that the channel in the brass right above the rim (the channel your extractor goes in to catch the rim) is VERY narrow- much narrower than most other .380 ammo. So the Sig extractor was not fully and consistently engaging the rim resulting in FTE issues. Maybe your GECO ammo has a similar problem. Never used it, so I don't know.

[dsk]

The G42 is a weak control for the Geco, as all that might prove is that the G42 handles hard European primers better than the Kahr, which may very well be true. The problem you're going to have is, if you send it back in, they almost certainly aren't going to use Geco brand ammo, and if the gun works with name brand American ammo, they will send it back to you saying it works fine. Then you're out the shipping, the effort, and the time without the gun. It's worth testing it with U.S. ammo, and if it works, stick with U.S. ammo ... or consider another gun I suppose. I think it's an ammo related issue till proven otherwise. Maybe it's not, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

Yeah, that's my concern. Geco, PPU and Herters are about all my local shops carry for a reasonable price (one place sells Remington FMJ for $27.99 a box. Forget it!). The thing is, if the pistol isn't reliable with European ammo then I don't think I'd trust it for defense with US ammo either even if it works okay at the range. If I send it back to Kahr I'll have to include two boxes of Geco and see what they say. It would be nice if I had the contact info of a Kahr customer service rep who I could talk to regarding these things and get his opinion before I even send it out.

[erichard]

Yeah, that's my concern. Geco, PPU and Herters are about all my local shops carry for a reasonable price (one place sells Remington FMJ for $27.99 a box. Forget it!). The thing is, if the pistol isn't reliable with European ammo then I don't think I'd trust it for defense with US ammo either even if it works okay at the range. If I send it back to Kahr I'll have to include two boxes of Geco and see what they say. It would be nice if I had the contact info of a Kahr customer service rep who I could talk to regarding these things and get his opinion before I even send it out.

I think you need to talk to Jay, if I recall correctly. He is responsive and at a managerial level, above the typical customer service folks. Yeah, send in the ammo with it, but they may simply say they recommend and guarantee results only with "quality" US ammo. I can see it now. So ask first before sending ammo in.

I looked again at my stockpile, and I do have PPU and ZQ1 in 380. The PPU box is half empty, so I must have shot that without issue. I use fairly cheap Freedom Munitions reloads for training (mail order) and Lehigh CF and XD for defense ammo. No problems (XD lower in the mag, CF top of mag). If you find ones that work, and test out 200 plus without incident, you don't need any other ammo. Just stockpile the ones that work...assuming you prefer the gun relative to alternatives. I can't use Lehigh XP for defense ammo, and that was my preferred round. Just did without it.

[dsk]

Sigh...so I guess I better get a couple boxes of US-made ammo (if I can find it) and trudge over to the range one more time before sending it in. All I have left in my stash is some PMC, but that ain't American-made even if it's quality stuff that should work.

BTW I just checked my pistol with the slide off and a cartridge inserted in the chamber just to see how it's being held in. It's tight against the breechface so that ain't it either.

[dsk]

Okay, I also just checked the protrusion of the striker tip out of the breechface. With the Lakeline striker the tip protrudes exactly .044". With the original striker it's slightly longer at .053". Can someone please measure the protrusion of their striker and tell me what measurement they get?

BTW for comparison the striker tip protrusion on my Glock 42 is .047", so it doesn't seem like a short striker protrusion is causing it either.

[SlowBurn]

Went through a series of send backs to Kahr when I started having light strikes. Tried a lot of things including replacing the barrel with the thought that the chamber was allowing the cartridge to load too deeply, reducing the force of pin on the primer. Eventually they suggested it might be the polymer receiver. I live in Florida and the heat humidity, age, use etc might have deteriorated it to the point where there was too much flex. I'm not an armchair gunsmith and don't really get the engineering part and how all the variables can affect each other but thats what we did.

It was a pia because the p380 frame is the serialized part, so I had to go through a gun dealer with background check etc. Kahr never brought up charging for the various repairs even though it was FAR out of warranty. Good company. It seemed to fix the issue.

[spazzwarr]

Just measured my CW380 and protrusion is around .044 with kahr mag. It shoots Monarch brass and steel case and PMC brass with out any issues.
Okay, I also just checked the protrusion of the striker tip out of the breechface. With the Lakeline striker the tip protrudes exactly .044". With the original striker it's slightly longer at .053". Can someone please measure the protrusion of their striker and tell me what measurement they get?

BTW for comparison the striker tip protrusion on my Glock 42 is .047", so it doesn't seem like a short striker protrusion is causing it either.

[gb6491]

.....or the cam is releasing the striker early. ....
Have you considered leaving the striker block out for some testing?
Regards,
Greg

[dsk]

Have you considered leaving the striker block out for some testing?
Regards,
Greg

Yes I thought of that, but then I noticed last night that the striker block prevents the striker from rotating. And if it rotates too far then the foot of the striker will hit the front edge of the striker block cutout and stop. If I had any more issues I wouldn't know if it was due to that or not. But then again maybe I have nothing left to lose...

And unfortunately SlowBurn brought up yet another potential headache. As I mentioned the problem is starting to get worse despite having put nearly 3,000 rounds through this thing by this point in an attempt to iron out the problem. I don't know what Kahr's estimate of life expectancy is with these pistols, but there's a chance I may be stretching the frame and wearing it out with all the live-fire testing I've done.

Looks like my last hurrah before sending it back to Kahr will be putting the factory striker back in it and testing it again with some US-made ammo.

[Ed M]

Looks like my last hurrah before sending it back to Kahr will be putting the factory striker back in it and testing it again with some US-made ammo.

I think this is a sound strategy, and should improve your odds of getting Kahr to fix the actual problem. They'll have no excuses to blame the problem on (ammo or aftermarket striker). If it were me, I'd try 2 or 3 different domestic ammo brands. Winchester, Remington, and Blazer Brass would take the ammo excuse totally out of the picture - they can't ALL be junk, right?

Worst case scenario is that it still has light strikes. Not a total loss $ wise, as you can use the remaining ammo in your G42. Check your local Walmart(s) for ammo - all the ones around here carry at least Winchester, and usually all three brands I listed.

I feel like you've gone WAY above and beyond your part - both time and money wise to get this gun to work reliably. Everything else that can be done is up to Kahr. How they handle this would go a long way toward restoring my trust in their products, IMO.

[SgtStone]

Been following this thread w/ interest as I'm considering a Kahr .380 to back up my 9mm's. Curious if you live where ammo cannot be shipped.

If not, I checked TargetSports USA for bulk .380: currently CCI/Speer Blazer Brass 95grn FMJ is selling for $0.25/round w/ free shipping for 1000 round cases, less than half the "WalMart prices" mentioned earlier in the thread. http://www.targetsportsusa.com/cci-blazer-brass-380-acp-auto-ammo-95-grain-fmj-5202-p-2828.asp

I've bought thousands of rounds of 9mm & .22LR from Target Sports w/ excellent results. Good Luck!

[dsk]

Latest range report:

I already knew the cam was lifting the FP block high enough to clear the striker, but I began wondering if it was lifting it out of the way soon enough. Since I had nothing else to lose at this point I went and filed down the portion of the block that acts as a stop for the striker. I didn't file it completely off, but merely reduced its projection by half (I am *NOT* recommending this as a fix, BTW. I just did it for the sake of troubleshooting). I then reassembled the pistol, leaving the Lakeline striker in place. Same new striker and recoil springs as last time. I tried the pistol today with one box each of Remington and PMC FMJ which was all I had on hand. The pistol sailed through the entire box of Remington without a single failure. I started getting excited and quickly ran through the box of PMC. It went all the way until the last mag, then alas I had one round (second one in the mag) that required three hits to go off. So perhaps I'm finally making progress? This pistol might actually be salvageable, if a new cam and FP block finally solves it. But even in the best-case scenario I still won't feel confident in it as a self-defense pistol until I manage to go a couple hundred rounds without failure. It definitely seems to prefer soft US-made primers though like some of you said.

[ct9kahrtoter]

Latest range report:

I already knew the cam was lifting the FP block high enough to clear the striker, but I began wondering if it was lifting it out of the way soon enough. Since I had nothing else to lose at this point I went and filed down the portion of the block that acts as a stop for the striker. I didn't file it completely off, but merely reduced its projection by half (I am *NOT* recommending this as a fix, BTW. I just did it for the sake of troubleshooting). I then reassembled the pistol, leaving the Lakeline striker in place. Same new striker and recoil springs as last time. I tried the pistol today with one box each of Remington and PMC FMJ which was all I had on hand. The pistol sailed through the entire box of Remington without a single failure. I started getting excited and quickly ran through the box of PMC. It went all the way until the last mag, then alas I had one round (second one in the mag) that required three hits to go off. So perhaps I'm finally making progress? This pistol might actually be salvageable, if a new cam and FP block finally solves it. But even in the best-case scenario I still won't feel confident in it as a self-defense pistol until I manage to go a couple hundred rounds without failure. It definitely seems to prefer soft US-made primers though like some of you said.Man, what a bunch of messing around. I feel for you. That gun of your reminds me of a Remington 700 I had, that after it came back from Remington (after they had it for 14 weeks), I traded off. It was during their trigger recall fiasco, and mine was one of those rifles that had a "malfunctioning" trigger. I never trusted that gun, even after they fixed it.

[dsk]

I agree most people would have bailed by now. But I already have so much invested in this pistol, from several spare mags with MagGuts kits, numerous holsters, and such that I can't back down now. That and there is a stubborn sense of pride where I am now addicted to getting this thing to run and refuse to quit. And last, I keep feeling like I am >< this close to finally solving it. Kinda like the guy on a hiking trail who's exhausted but thinks he's finally near the top of the mountain, and pushes himself to go just a little farther, only to see he still has yet one more ridge to climb up. And so he pushes himself just a little more...

[dhenze]

I'm with you (in spirit at least). Keep going; you've come this far!

[dustnchips]

I understand your persistance. Like you I get very determined to make mechanical things work as they should. I know many do not think of guns as machines, but in truth they are.

[dsk]

Range trip #3,237 today:

I fired two boxes of Remington FMJ and one PMC, 150 rounds total. I also brought along five duds with light primer marks from the previous range trips just for fun, three Geco and two Herters cartridges. Everything went bang. This was the first time in the four years I've owned this pistol that it went through that many rounds without a single malfunction. What did I do this time? I figured I was onto something when I removed some material from the FP block last time and it almost ran without fail, so I took just a little bit more off. I wish I had a complete box of the Geco ammunition to try, but nobody had any in stock. But with the flawless run today with two different brands of ammo I think things are finally looking up. It appears my pistol had a problem with the cam and FP block. The final test will be ordering new parts from Kahr, installing them, and heading to the range with a large assortment of ammo. Maybe THEN I'll finally feel confident enough to trust it.

[topgun1953]

It's just anecdotal evidence, but I had sporadic light strikes and several other issues since I've owned my p380 until I finally replaced the striker block! I had to file a bit to make it fit but the gun has now been perfect for hundreds of rounds. Maybe you got it.....finally! 😳😳😳

[dsk]

Well in other good news, out of all this I've managed to do an extended range test of the MagGuts kits, considering I'm well over 1,000 rounds since installing them in six mags and without a single feeding issue. I won't run an OEM Kahr mag ever again, at least not out of the .380s.

[Ray C]

Well in other good news, out of all this I've managed to do an extended range test of the MagGuts kits, considering I'm well over 1,000 rounds since installing them in six mags and without a single feeding issue. I won't run an OEM Kahr mag ever again, at least not out of the .380s.

Did you ever have problems with the OEM P380 Kahr mag?

[dsk]

Yes. The pistol flat out wouldn't feed the top round if you tried to sling-shot it, and then during firing it would occasionally stop cold on wide-mouthed or sharp-shouldered ammo. On top of that the OEM springs weakened after a month of loaded storage and wouldn't lock the slide back anymore. With the MagGuts I can sling-shot the slide to chamber a round, haven't had any feed issues since, and the slide always locks back as long as I remember to keep my thumb out of the way. The extra round in the mag is just a bonus. I don't want to sound like a paid arse-licker for the company, but I'm amazed by how they improved functioning 100%. So far it's been the one bright spot in my troubleshooting of this pistol.

[zaitcev]

At this point, I think things like the transfer bar or even the frame have to be a suspect. Alfonso is right, a second gun is needed for careful swapping of parts.

I suspect what may be happening is something goes out of whack when the gun is fired, and most likely it's something plastic, or at least thin. It was an eye-opening experience for me to watch some of the slow-motion videos and see just how much guns flex when fired.

[dsk]

I burned up all my remaining .380 ammo during the last range trip and I'm trying to find some more at a decent price (i.e waiting for some sales) before I can take it out again and give it another go. The last two trips were very promising, and if I can get it to run another 200 rounds without a failure then I'll be ready to buy a new replacement cam and striker block. But I'm not spending money on any more parts until I'm 100% sure that's where the problem was.

[berettabone]

Target Sports USA..................................don't think you'll find it much cheaper..........................

[Vondell]

Freedom Munitions, I`ve found to have really low prices. They had PMC Bronze 380acp for $.18 a round and I stocked up. Their 100gr RNFP new or reman, runs perfectly through my P380 now....as well as their XTP stuff. https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/pistol/380-auto.html

[Vondell]

...also, you can find some good deals on Gunbroker...
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625070008 900 rounds PMC... sold $150

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625067172 650 rounds Remington... sold $99

[topgun1953]

Freedom Munitions, I`ve found to have really low prices. They had PMC Bronze 380acp for $.18 a round and I stocked up. Their 100gr RNFP new or reman, runs perfectly through my P380 now....as well as their XTP stuff. https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/pistol/380-auto.html

I got 1000 rounds of PMC too. Couldn't believe the price and triple checked it and didn't believe it until I opened the case. $180.00 for 1000 rounds of PMC 380!! 😳😳😳

[dsk]

Up until now I've only bought ammo locally, but that price on PMC from Freedom sure got my attention. I'll have to keep an eye on them and see when they get some more in. A case of .380 ammo for only a little more than what .22 ammo was recently selling for is definitely tempting.

[jtsmall]

DSK, I commend your persistence sorting out the multiple failure points encountered with Kahr's promising yet work in progress CW380. Along this journey I find your reports and the many suggestions from our trusted posters to have created the penultimate of learning experiences. This thread is clearly destined a sticky and a must read for any Kahr polymer striker fired gun enthusiast.

On my similar journey I too echo Magguts as a standout after market product.

Approaching three months since your last post I suspect you have replaced your customized parts with factory new Kahr parts. If so what are your findings and next steps?

Thanks to many posters in our KahrTalk forums and particularly this thread I am beginning to appreciate what Kahr has achieved with their all metal MK series pistols.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[dsk]

Approaching three months since your last post I suspect you have replaced your customized parts with factory new Kahr parts. If so what are your findings and next steps?

The latest is that I replaced the parts and the pistol went two more range trips with no failures, and I was ready to call it good. Then when I came home after the second trip the slide inexplicably got stuck shut and refused to open. I had to take a mallet to pop it open (fortunately there was no round in the chamber). I cleaned the pistol really good and looked everything over, but I couldn't find anything wrong. I reassembled it and the slide operated fine.

Three days later I bought a Ruger LCP. It's now my new pocket carry and the Kahr will collect dust until I finally decide whether to waste any more ammunition "testing" it or simply part it out. I'm sick and tired of burning up all my .380 ammo and range time on just this one gun and its perpetual problems when I have so many other guns I'd love to shoot instead.

[dsk]

Latest update, I put 100 more rounds through it yesterday without any failures. I don't know what caused the stuck slide, maybe an unburned power granule or piece of brass shaving found the magic spot and locked up the slide and barrel. I still can't trust this gun unless it's absolutely squeaky-clean and well lubed. It's such a shame because it runs circles around the LCP otherwise. So much more accurate and easy to shoot.

[Ikeo74]

End your problems, put the Kahr away and buy a Remington RM380, It is 100% reliable out of the box. Not breakin required. It works every time without fail. Brand loyalty has it's limits.

[King Rat]

Hopefully you picked up the LCP gen 2 and not the new Model LCP ll. I have owned three LCP's shot thousands of rounds through them since they first came out. And now own the fourth. They are good reliable guns that shoot most any ammo. Actually loved the Tula steel case when the ammo shortage occurred. However, they are no where near the quality of the Kahr. And you are going to give up a lot of the fine shooting of the Kahr, the smooth mildness unique to the gun. The Grip on the LCP's can be a problem if you shoot often. Cracks, rail splits etc. Ruger does nothing for these issues to provide steel supports etc. The guns are not known for high mileage. Start to look for problems anywhere from 1500 on. Some will get up there, there is one guy said he is up to 3500 rounds. That is very unusual. My first one went down after 2200 rounds. I tested and shot the New LCP ll and hated it. Crazy unsafe trigger. That is when I decided to look elsewhere and Bought the Pico, which I have quickly become a fan boy. Bought two of them I liked it so much. Over 2000 rounds of mixed ammo between both and NOT one Hiccup.

Last month bought the Kahr and quickly becoming a fan. I now have 425 rounds through the gun with no problems, time will tell, but I believe it will do very well. Hate to see someone go from a Kahr to a LCP. That said, I hope you like your new Pistol. Maybe later you can go back to the Kahr and work things out. I sincerely wish you luck.

http://i.imgur.com/aCkVjIx.jpg (http://imgur.com/aCkVjIx)

[DavidR]

I went from a Kahr to an LCP and was very happy. For me it was very simple: Kahr - totally unreliable, LCP - totally reliable.


Dave

[dsk]

Yup, I went with a Gen2 LCP that was on sale. With a Hogue grip on it it's bulkier than my P380, but it's not much harder to shoot. The main thing though is that it's reliable, and aside from the grip and a little polishing of the feed ramp it was good to go right out of the box. And it cost a third of what the Kahr did won't require the expenditure of hundreds of dollars worth of ammo to break in or troubleshoot. In the meantime I'll take the Kahr out on occasion just to see how it performs, but after the last bizarre and totally inexplicable incident my confidence in it is gone.

[CPTKILLER]

Kahr is obviously having some issues and if not corrected, it will be the end of Kahr. High Standard and others went that way.

[joemsj51]

Yup, I went with a Gen2 LCP that was on sale. With a Hogue grip on it it's bulkier than my P380, but it's not much harder to shoot. The main thing though is that it's reliable, and aside from the grip and a little polishing of the feed ramp it was good to go right out of the box. And it cost a third of what the Kahr did won't require the expenditure of hundreds of dollars worth of ammo to break in or troubleshoot. In the meantime I'll take the Kahr out on occasion just to see how it performs, but after the last bizarre and totally inexplicable incident my confidence in it is gone.

Expect-not to see you here anymore. After-all, no trust in the gun anymore should keep you from clicking-on this Kahr site again.

Take care and have a Merry Christmas / Happy New Year.

[Bawanna]

Kahr is obviously having some issues and if not corrected, it will be the end of Kahr. High Standard and others went that way.

That would be sad. They have enough other strong players and other brands under their umbrella. Doubt Kahr will end.
Maybe just quit 380's would be their savior. Wouldn't bother me none.

Even the 380's have improved drastically over the last few years. Used to be almost nothing but problems. Now I think the vast majority run without issue.

[berettabone]

Expect-not to see you here anymore. After-all, no trust in the gun anymore should keep you from clicking-on this Kahr site again.

Take care and have a Merry Christmas / Happy New Year. There are many firearms/topics to read about and contribute to, besides .380 cal. Kahr's on this site. In fact, the 380's are low on the discussion list. If the only reason to come to this site is to complain about 380's, its too bad. Lots of other useful and fun info. I have read about just as much trouble with other .380's, not just Kahr. I wouldn't own any of them personally. I like BIG holes:o

[Bawanna]

Amen brother Berettabone.

[Ed M]

Well, technically, a 380 bullet is the same diameter as a 9mm bullet. Same size hole going in.

Given a choice, I'd take 9mm over 380 any day, but there are times and types of clothing that just make a pocket 380 so much easier to carry. I have three micro 9mm Kahrs - MK, PM, and CM. They all can be pocket carried easily with MOST of the pants and shorts I wear. Kahr micro 380s have an advantage over every other micro 380 available, IMHO. Size, weight, stainless/polymer construction, good factory sights, simplicity and ease of maintenance, shootability, and that wonderful Kahr trigger all combine to make the Kahr 380s the best pocket 380s available.

I own two CW380s. One is in my pocket most days, and the other I just bought as a spare - crazy low prices right now.

With my first CW380, I did the whole prep route. Racked the slide 500 times, left the slide locked back for several days, etc. It performed 100% from day one, as long as I didn't feed it Perfecta ammo.

CW380 #2, got the bare minimum prep. Cleaned it well (per the prep thread), lubed it, and shot 100 rounds through it first time out. It also performed 100%, and it also doesn't like Perfecta ammo.

All of the Kahrs I own are completely reliable. They all are holding up exceptionally well to putting a lot of rounds down range, and none show any sign of excessive wear. My 9 year old PM9 just passed the 5000 round mark, and it looks like new inside. All I've replaced was a mag follower (it broke when I dropped the mag on a concrete floor during a training class) and the recoil assembly at the 3000 round mark (just because). It's performed 100% from round one.

Bottom line, people should expect their guns to be 100% reliable. If one follows the prep thread, checks the slide stop spring for proper adjustment, and keeps their guns and mags clean, your odds are good. Potential problems and fixes have been discussed thoroughly on this forum, and if you still have issues, Kahr service will make things right. If one is not willing to buy a Kahr 380 because a very small minority of guns have teething problems, just buy something else. You'll be giving up at least one of the many advantages Kahr 380s have over anything else available though. Your choice.

[berettabone]

These days with the size and weight of the smaller firearms, IMHO, the difference between carrying a .380 or 9mm is negligible. I guess that's what makes me different from others. I am not always looking for the easiest or most comfortable way. I prefer to carry something that will make big holes. I realize that this isn't always possible, and without getting in to the dreaded caliber wars, I just don't feel that the .380 is enough firepower for me. Given all the troubles people keep having with the .380's, I will stick to what does work reliably for me, which is the larger calibers. Especially going through clothing and the like. Seems like some like a firearm that they can just drop in their pocket for convenience sake. These people are just looking for trouble..............................which has been mentioned many times here on this site.

[Bawanna]

Not sure I agree with the looking for trouble line but maybe so.

While I believe a 380 in the pocket is better than a 44 mag left in the sock drawer, I still firmly believe the Commander 1911 on the belt is best.

In the words of Clint Smith, it's supposed to be comforting, not comfortable.

[dsk]

The thing about my Kahr .380, and the reason why I've invested so much time and money into it is that it's a gun I can carry in my pocket all day long and not know its there, yet if I ever had to use it I could easily engage targets as far out as I'm ever likely to face. This is no "get off me gun"; if a street thug is engaging me from the other end of a 7-11 store I know I can still take him with it. Try doing that with most other compact .380s. I probably can't with my LCP so I wouldn't try it unless it was do or die time. The only .380 I have that shoots better is my Glock 42, which is much larger and thus difficult for me to carry while wearing shorts (those of you who are bigger than Woody Allen don't have my problem). So trust me, I WANT to like this pistol and be able to rely on it for everyday carry. I thought I was finally out of the woods when I solved the light strikes issue at long last, but now I'm back to shooting it yet another few hundred rounds to see if the stuck slide was just a fluke.

And yes, when I'm not restricted by clothing I do carry a slim 9mm instead.

[King Rat]

That certainly would not be my choice. Yes, the RM380 seems like a nice gun, but my Two Pico's are running fantastic and my Kahr is doing the same. Why would anyone go from a Full Stainless steel as the Pico or the steel of the Kahr to to a 7075 aluminum gun like the Rem? I understand that it would be frustrating to have picked up a lemon no matter what manufacture. I might get the Rm380, it has features I like. But not because it is a better built gun, and reliability is a mute point. However, One gun I will never ever own is the New LCP ll. I have owned 4 LCP's and can tell you right now the Kahr and the Pico are light years better build than the LCPs. The LCP ll has a very dangerous trigger IMO. (And the opinion of many others)

[Ed M]

dsk - just out of curiosity.....Do you have a Lakeline guide rod in your P380?

Back when I was breaking in my first CW380, I put the Lakeline guide rod in it. I thought maybe it was just the gun loosening up as it broke in, but I felt it got noticeably smoother with the stainless guide rod.

Now that I have another CW380 to compare it to, I found that the Lakeline guide rod really did make a difference. I swapped just the guide rod in both guns, and I can feel the difference. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the Lakeline guide rod is harder than the stock one. The recoil springs seem to drag a bit more on the stock guide rod. I polished up my old guide rod and compared it as well - didn't help.

Before CW380 #2 finishes it's break in, I'm gonna get another Lakeline striker and guide rod for it.

[berettabone]

Not sure I agree with the looking for trouble line but maybe so.

While I believe a 380 in the pocket is better than a 44 mag left in the sock drawer, I still firmly believe the Commander 1911 on the belt is best.

In the words of Clint Smith, it's supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. Just to clarify............I didn't mean they were looking for trouble as in a gunfight. They are looking for trouble from a safety standpoint.:)

[Bobshouse]

Information received from Hodgdon reloading site using CFE powder:

380: 100 grain bullet, 955 fps.
9mm: 100 grain bullet, 1211 fps.
9mm: 147 grain bullet, 963 fps.

Both leave the same size hole as they are both .355 in diameter. I feel secure with either, but the .380 is more concealable. Oh, and I don't reload 9mm, so practice gets expensive.

[dsk]

Look at ballistic gelatin tests on YouTube from decent sources like TNoutdoors9. You'll see that a hollow-point .380 bullet does the same amount of damage as a 9mm when it first enters, but then it it quickly slows down and stops after only 8" or so of penetration. The 9mm round of course keeps going to about 12". That's the difference. I believe a good .380 round will perform nearly as well as an equivalent 9mm bullet if the range is short, your assailant is wearing a t-shirt, and he's of thin to medium build. But at distance, going up against somebody with a lot of body fat and/or a thick winter coat the .380 may not go in deep enough to get the job done. That's why I and many others only consider a .380 a warm-weather defense caliber, and try not to piss off fat people.

Ed, thanks for the tip on the Lakeline guide rod. I haven't observed any issues with the OEM steel rod yet, and so far mine still looks okay, but I may order one anyway the next time I jump on their website.

[Ikeo74]

If you think the springs are binding on the guide rod do this: Take some automobile chassis grease and lube the springs with it. Get the grease in between the 2 springs and on the guide rod. It makes a world of difference on friction of the springs rubbing on each other in those small guns. It works on 9mm and 380s. I uses ir on my CM9 and never had any problems with fail to load or fail to eject. Doesn't hurt to put a light coating on the guide rails either.

[dsk]

I just happened upon this thread and checked my pistol as well: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?30665-CW380-Guide-Rod-Sticks-Juts-Out-the-Front/page2

Sure enough, on my frame the area in question was deformed on one side, and a shard of plastic had broken off on the other. The guide rod would not seat all the way without snapping past the deformed area. I wonder if that's what caused my slide binding issue? Anyway, I cleaned up the damage with an X-Acto knife and the guide rod now slides smoothly into position. Beyond that, only time will tell...

[Ken43]

People keep putting down the .380. I know there are other calibers out there that are probably better, but you carry what you are comfortable with. In 1968 I know I am an antique, but I was a CHP officer in southern CA. I walked into a grocery story with my wife while I was off duty. I was carrying a Walther PPK .380. I was informed by one of the managers that the store was being held up by two male individuals. I saw two guys going from check stand to check stand getting the money. Both were armed. At one point one of the guys pushed a customer up against the wall and threatened him. When he turn away I took one shot. The suspect dropped and the other ran out of the store. I was 66 ft. away when I shot. It is all about shot placement. I am retired now and I will only be using my weapon to protect myself and my wife and family. I don't need a gun that shoots 15 times. I have 2 Kahr 9mm's and a CW 380. I feel better when I am carrying a 9mm, however; I feel adequate carrying my .380.

[dsk]

The majority of street thugs will scatter like cockroaches the minute somebody starts shooting back at them. Very few will ever be the crazed psycho meth-head of stereotypes. In the event somebody is really, really, REALLY pissed at you and wants to tear your head clean off a .45 won't drop them either if the shots aren't well-placed. You HAVE to shut down their central nervous system if you expect them to go down right away. Even a shot into the heart may not drop them instantly if they're so pumped up that their brain is full of oxygen.

[boscobarbell]

Hey...that's my thread!

I'm glad my woes eventually helped someone else, too. Personally, I never would have diagnosed that problem myself, so this forum once again proved to be a godsend.

The Epilogue to my story was a nearly flawless trip to the range, so I hope your story ends well, too.


I just happened upon this thread and checked my pistol as well: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?30665-CW380-Guide-Rod-Sticks-Juts-Out-the-Front/page2

Sure enough, on my frame the area in question was deformed on one side, and a shard of plastic had broken off on the other. The guide rod would not seat all the way without snapping past the deformed area. I wonder if that's what caused my slide binding issue? Anyway, I cleaned up the damage with an X-Acto knife and the guide rod now slides smoothly into position. Beyond that, only time will tell...

[SlowBurn]

Look at ballistic gelatin tests on YouTube from decent sources like TNoutdoors9. You'll see that a hollow-point .380 bullet does the same amount of damage as a 9mm when it first enters, but then it it quickly slows down and stops after only 8" or so of penetration. The 9mm round of course keeps going to about 12". That's the difference. I believe a good .380 round will perform nearly as well as an equivalent 9mm bullet if the range is short, your assailant is wearing a t-shirt, and he's of thin to medium build. But at distance, going up against somebody with a lot of body fat and/or a thick winter coat the .380 may not go in deep enough to get the job done. That's why I and many others only consider a .380 a warm-weather defense caliber, and try not to piss off fat people.
So the answer is move to where its warm all the time and you never have to lug anything bigger than a CW380

[dustnchips]

Better the 380 in my pocket than the 45 home in the safe. I do carry the 9 occasionally, but the size of the 380 has me grabbing it most of the time.

[berettabone]

So the answer is move to where its warm all the time and you never have to lug anything bigger than a CW380 Like California?????????????????

[Ronni3_J]

Na Arizona :)

[Bawanna]

My 45 never stays home in the safe. Ever.

[DavidR]

A 380 with Lehigh Defense or Penetrator rounds does just fine with heavy clothes.


Dave

[dsk]

So the answer is move to where its warm all the time and you never have to lug anything bigger than a CW380

Or work for an employer who supports the Second Amendment and will let you carry something bigger on the job. Unfortunately most don't, forcing you to either go about your day unarmed or carry something discreet enough that it minimizes the chances of getting caught. As a result the peashooter you have on you at the office becomes the gun you also have on you when you stop by the local shop n' rob on the way home to pick up a gallon of milk.

[SlowBurn]

Like California?????????????????

Na Arizona :)

Sunshine, beaches, golf, no income tax, shall issue ccw permits, stand your ground.
14832

[King Rat]

These days with the size and weight of the smaller firearms, IMHO, the difference between carrying a .380 or 9mm is negligible. I guess that's what makes me different from others. I am not always looking for the easiest or most comfortable way. I prefer to carry something that will make big holes. I realize that this isn't always possible, and without getting in to the dreaded caliber wars, I just don't feel that the .380 is enough firepower for me. Given all the troubles people keep having with the .380's, I will stick to what does work reliably for me, which is the larger calibers. Especially going through clothing and the like. Seems like some like a firearm that they can just drop in their pocket for convenience sake. These people are just looking for trouble..............................which has been mentioned many times here on this site.

Sorry if I disagree. The new defense loads have come a long way for the 380. And considering most encounters would be at a close distance makes the 380. plenty powerful. You say, convenience, I say Practicality. You also say that so many problems with reliability of 380's. The 380's I have carried have all been tested with many rounds before carry and I have total faith in them just like any other pistol or revolver. I do CCW with a 9mm pistol or my snub revolver in the cooler months, because they are Practical. I also carry a 380 back up. Do I really want to strap on a 36 oz firearm on my side to run down to 7/11? Not me, just not Practical. I like big holes, but does not mean I will be taking my 12 gauge slug with me to the mall nor a big 1911 strapped to one side. JMO.

[berettabone]

Some people are affected by a few ounces of weight...............fortunately, I am not one of them. I would much rather strap on a 36 oz. firearm, than carry a low round pea shooter. Each to his own. You may have not had any issues with the .380, but plenty of others have. It's the most bitched about caliber on this forum............................................. .................................................. ............Lehigh Penetrator, special this, special that. .380 is becoming too expensive to shoot, especially if you have to have something special to work in your firearm. I'll stick with the big boolits, they always work in my firearms, no matter which one I am carrying, without issues. Any brand.......................

[TheLastDaze]

persistence is a good thing, props for your efforts.... hope you get her running 100%... contact kahr and they will likely send you all new springs to try out