CW380 sold back to Cabela's traded for Ruger LCP 2 after FAIL in Kahr CS

[icysurfer]

FTF's, FTLB on the last shot. after 1100 rounds of CCI and S & B round-nose FMJ, and XTP Hornadys... I sent the Cdub back to Kahr. Got it back after 7 days, with the explanation EXTRACTOR REDONE< RECOIL SPRING REPLACED....

To the range again with the right ammo for the gun. After a thorough cleaning, as they obviously took some test shots..

Even worse performance, had a light striker fire and CLICK - which had never happened before.

Had enough, lost confidence in what is primarily an SD weapon.

Sold it back to Cabela's and got the LCP2. It is OK, hurts the hand a bit, but after a 300 round break in with 2 FTF's in the first 100, PERFECT performance with 2 different XTP rounds, and 2 FMJ brands.

Kahr contacted ME by email thinking that I sent it to them, but we cleared that one up quick.. THe Sales Manager was on the phone with the salesman.

"Oh, you shouldn;t have done it, cause we figured out what was wrong with the gun... The Firing Pin was broken, but still functioned sometimes."
"If you would have sent it back again, we would have fixed it...! And if it did not work after that, we would replace the gun."

They thought that they were talking to Cabela's at first, or Me, it was bizzare and very confusing. Essentially, admitting that KAHR did not fix it correctly the first time.. It almost seemed that they looked at it, fired it and returned it to me with NOTHING done.

"You can go back to Cabela's and tell them you want to buy it back. THen we will fix it or replace it. " Kahr.....

"Dude, this is an SD gun, primarily, how could I ever trust a CW now..? But, if you wanna send me a new one for all my trouble and ammo spent, feel free..!" ME.

For some money we will, he jokingly said." "The LCP I bought was a cheap gun." "At least it fires dependably,"I wanted to say..!

Maybe they will do me a favor, but I doubt it. So, I said nothing to that statement.

SILLINESS IN CUSTOMER SERVICE> Lack of Pride in Product.

The grip and trigger are far better with the CW, but it needs to RUN......!!!!!!

EDIT: So Cabelas had sent it back to the Massachusetts Kahr Factory without an RMA, that was why they thought I had sent it in. And when the gun was diagnosed as having a Firing pin problem that intermittently failed ("It is strange," He said today 1/4/17. In other words, no answer for my one FTF only after their repair.) CS seemed still under the impression that I want to buy that particular one back from Cabela's (which I would not do, or even a new one, not just to get good ergos and spend another 400+USD breaking it in with certainty.).

Keeping the LCP 2, as the trigger got softer after break in, and has been 100% in 250 rounds of all sorts, other than one round that had bullet setback (American Gunner XTP)

[DavidR]

Put a couple layers of bike tube on the LCP or get the Hogue grip when it comes out and "hand hurt" will lessen.

I had a similar experience with my CW380 but I gave up after about 600 rounds. I now own 2 LCPs.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/David-R/0106D1EF-BB05-4FF9-AFA7-7ED4DFCC3DF8_zpsdu3kho4x.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/David-R/media/0106D1EF-BB05-4FF9-AFA7-7ED4DFCC3DF8_zpsdu3kho4x.jpg.html)


Dave

[icysurfer]

Gave the CW a lot of love, and tons of ammo to get it to run right.. Really like the grip and trigger, but ALAS, it was not meant to be..

[sharpetop]

Sold my flawless LCP in favor of a CW380, mainly because of the un-godly trigger on the LCP. I've never had an issue with the CW380, but it resides in the safe.

[icysurfer]

LCP 2 has a better trigger than the LCP. Especially, after the break-in - where it loosens up a bit. And, LCP 2 has a more extreme grip surface.. With a Talon grip, it's almost as comfortable as the CW. But, that is asking a lot.
Some say the LCP Custom has a good trigger too. Many eschew the trigger on the basic LCP.

[DavidR]

Gave the CW a lot of love, and tons of ammo to get it to run right.. Really like the grip and trigger, but ALAS, it was not meant to be..

I agree. My CW380 ran okay with Hornady Critical Defense and when it ran right it was a sweet shooter!

I haven't handled the new LCP II yet but there's some controversy on the Ruger forums as to whether it's safe to pocket carry a gun that Ruger says is single action without a safety.


Dave

[icysurfer]

The LCP 2 trigger has a very solid break. It is not really light. Especially, at first. If ya try it, you'll see. It doesn't make me nervous at all. Now if it had the trigger of the LC9s Pro, that is a different one.

[nmkahrshooter]

Sorry to hear about your cw380 and congrats on the new ruger. I also have a cw380 but hardly carry it. It has not failed me but for some reason I do not trust it. I have purchased a Kimber micro 9 to fill the spot of the 380. At least with the nine my confidence level with the gun has gone up knowing it will go bang when I pull the trigger.

[icysurfer]

Thanks... In anything but it's reliable operation, I LOVE the Kahr CW380. I know it sounds silly (minor detail, haha), but the ergos and trigger are really THAT good. The Ruger LCP 2 is not as comfortable to shoot as the CDub was. A Talon Grip helped.

But, Elsie 2 always shoots. And is not super-picky about ammo. I figure 1200 rounds for the 'break'(in) of the CW at $15 per 50 rounds = 360. Although I enjoyed shooting it, I did not enjoy the frustration of the Slide not locking back, or rounds taking a nosedive at the feedramp base. So it ended up costing more than a P380... And, not fulfilling the aim of sound operation. It costed Me 700+ to learn how to shoot a small gun. so, I DID get something out of it. Of course, we would all like a handgun that always goes BOOM!

[allthumbsplusone]

I purchased a used p380 without much thought about malfunctions. I shot probably about 500- 700 rounds through it and decided I would replace the striker spring since the trigger pull was about 4lbs 4 oz. As far as I could tell it was original. I decided to replace the recoil spring as well. The tech at Kahr asked me the serial number and said it was a very early model. I have put a few hundred rounds through since without issue.
Happy with the reliability I purchase a new pm9. Again no issues whatsoever right from the start. Close to 1000 rounds and no malfunctions with ball ammo or self defense loads.
Feeling my good luck oats I picked up a new cw45 that was absolute crap. The fit and finish was ok, but I had numerous failures to feed, failures to completely close action, failure to eject. I noticed the spring that held the slidelock in place loose...in fact it was stripped. I was able to use some metal reinforced epoxy to get the screw to set properly but by then I had lost all confidence with the gun. I did take it out after the fix and it ran spotty at best
My lastest kahr is a PM45. I had about 6 failures of the action to close all the way with some Freedom Munitions New Ammo. With the Freedom reloads it runs great (as well as a couple diefferent kind of defense loads). I checked the diameter of the Freedom new loads and they are at max diameter at the widest point. The hornady and winchester defense loads are about .005 under that so I am thinking it just might be the freedom loads feeding tight when the gun is somewhat dirty. So I am 3 for 4. On the hand I have been 100 percent on every glock I have ever owned. But... the glocks are larger, and the trigger is not nearly as safe in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I will own more glocks (I have a 34 and 21) but for carry I would take a Kahr any day. It is lighter, reliable, and the trigger is flat out better for a self defense gun without a trigger.

I agree with those who indicate the magazine release screw should go into a metal piece molded into the frame. Really no excuse given how much that spring is responsible for. If I have a screw that strips I will drill out the hole, press fit a metal piece that has been drilled and tapped. That is the way it should be done.

[cloud]

My p380 sits in the safe even after sending it back to kahr I still get malfunctions. I have not giving up on it and will mess with it one day. I have bought 4 ruger lcp's since than one for my wife myself and 2 sons all 4 have been good guns with no problems.

[wayneo1]

I have had for my edc a MK9, love it great shooting never missed a beat and never been back to Kahr. So when I decided I needed a smaller hot weather carry I bought a new p380 in November, I noticed the takedown mark on the frame was kind of buggered up but it didn't really keep me from breaking the gun down. So I proceeded to break the gun in put 400 rounds through it including Winchester white box with the flat nose. It didn't like the flat nose profile but when I mixed round with the flats it ran all 100 out. So no problem at all but I did send the picture of the buggered up take down mark on the frame. Kahr CS department wrote back and said it wasn't proper and sent me a pickup tag. week later I get my gun back frame was perfect and Kahr had checked the trigger for smoothness at my request and changed the trigger out. took it to the range yesterday and I was all smiles they made a good gun better so why some people have trouble and some don't is a mystery to me. But Kahr gets 5 stars from me.

[icysurfer]

Sincerely glad that other's CW, CT, or P's work well. I really wanted mine to do that. Due to the comfort of the grip and trigger. With the Talon grip I was very accurate with the CW. They really have something here in that model, but it gots to run flawlessly as an SD weapon.

What was weird about the initial send back was that I really felt like nothing had been done to the gun. The tech on the phone was coming back with a quick response against everything I said.

i.e. we have seen that extreme rounded hardball ammo works best. Such as CCI and the most dependable one- Herters (S & B) - Cabela's House Brand .. So, in response I told Him that.
Before I even got the words out, "You must use American-Made ammo" was the response. Just an example.

But, the strange thing was when they mistakenly talked to me as the customer, even though I had sold the gun to Cabela's. And I received a reference Email with a code that I had not instigated. So, in calling THEM back, they talked to me as if I was the customer. Telling me that "They figured out what was wrong with the gun."

But, they did not have it - it was still at Cabela's... 'Cause they suggested if I was really attached to the gun, I could try to buy it back from Cabela's before they sent it back to Kahr for repair. "The Firing Pin was broken, and that is why it fired intermittently." Thing is the main problem was not that. I had only one weak strike. But, it DID happen only after they repaired it. Not ever once before that.

It seemed that a hypothesis and diagnosis for MY CW380 had happened without the gun in their possession... It seems that they did not really help the problem I sent to them.

Their CS Policy showed when the tech said if we can't fix it the second time, we will send a new one out. ---- So, a weak, or ineffective first try, but a SPARTAN effort to be expected for the second try, in order to prevent having to send out a new one..?

None of this was anything but BUYER BEWARE, in my opinion. So, I will vote with my wallet. If my time and safety is so unimportant to Kahr, then no mo dough fo them.

[erichard]

Their CS Policy showed when the tech said if we can't fix it the second time, we will send a new one out. ---- So, a weak, or ineffective first try, but a SPARTAN effort to be expected for the second try, in order to prevent having to send out a new one..?


I had a similar experience in every way (gun problems on several levels, liked the gun when working, etc.). From my experience, if you get one particular guy on the customer service line, he is really, really unhelpful and dismissive. He should be no where near a customer service line in any business. He had an unhelpful answer for everything. The other guy was very helpful. If they have this one turkey answering a bunch of calls, I think it explains why some people have a very negative CS experience and some have the opposite (those not getting this guy on the first call). If I ever need them again and that guy answers the phone, I'm calling back another day until someone else answers.

I don't know if anyone from Kahr follows these forums, but they should, and they should take heed of some of our solutions, like the extractor fix, the slide release modification and more. Wouldn't take much to make this the best in class for the .380, and folks here have done the expensive research through trial and error and helping each other out. That kind of help could be invaluable to a company if they actually followed along week by week. I remember once asking about the history of broken striker pins, and the guy who had answer for everything before you opened your mouth said he'd never heard of such a thing. Either he was prevaricating, or was ignorant of a significant defect.

The CW380 is very close to being a very excellent gun. I spent a lot of time perfecting mine, and I really do like carrying it and shooting it.

[sandy22]

My LCP hurt my trigger finger didn't hurt my hand just finger. My CW 9mm has ben trouble free. Shoot 100 or 115 reloads in it. Just hate to take it down for cleaning.

[icysurfer]

LCP or the newer LCP 2....?

[icysurfer]

One thing I must say... It is true that many Kahr users may be hitting the Slide Stop Lever on last shot, keeping it from opening. Shooting cheap or not-matched with the feed ramp's extreme angle, ammo. Or, other User Error situations.. Who can say what happens to peoples' firearms...? I bet they have some stories to tell in CS... ! People say the darndest things.. BUT< an intelligent shooter is easy to tell.... So, yes, instead of discounting everyone, it is important to treat every call as a new one.

Kahr CS must be on the phone all day with disgruntled, confused, and sometimes inexperienced Kahr users. THAT could get old quick.

My suggestion to the rep was to get a job with Walther. He did not find that amusing.