Fed. .38 HST

[jg rider]

Does anyone have any info on this ? Bullet is seated flush in the case like a wadcutter. Reloading would be a b*#ch

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/11/new-federal-ammunition-offerings/


https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13272&d=1484828398

[Bawanna]

Never heard of it myself but it is an interesting concept. Does do away with a lot of the air space in the case.

Wonder hos it shoots. If the sample is any indication it seems to expand well.

I doubt we'll be able to get any to hand load anytime soon. But maybe so.

[yqtszhj]

Id like to see how it performs out of a snub nose j frame. From what I have read (no personal experience) expansion out of a snubnose is what has to be watched.

that could be my new summer carry load if it really expands that well.

[ct9kahrtoter]

Wow, never seen that one before. The bullet is seated all the way? :confused:

[Barth]

Looks like it's real and very interesting.
I've been running Speer GDHP Short Barrel 135 gr +P in my S&W 342 ti snubbie.
But really like Federal HST in my Semi-Autos :D
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/1/18/federal-premium-introduces-38-spl-plusp-hst-micro-ammo/
https://assets.shootingillustrated.com/media/1541122/federal-premium-38-special-hst-micro-f.jpg?preset=article

[jg rider]

Does anyone here remember these loads from the 70's

148 gr. Hornady HBWC seated backwards. & a 125 gr. jacketed soft lead H.P. with steel ball in the cavity


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00016.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jgriders/media/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00016.jpg.html)

Then company IIRC named Scorpian added a post. That was the start of the Fed. Hydra Shock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkk41/hydrashok38_zpsk5g2oqqu.jpg]

This is what I carry in S&W 341 TI.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00014.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jgriders/media/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00014.jpg.html)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/09Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jgriders/media/Smith%20Revolvers/09Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg.html)

I can't find the new HST's anywhere. But I'm looking

[GA_Sheepdog]

It's basically a hollow point wadcutter bullet. Wadecutters were popular with PPC revolver competitions. I've actually reloaded several 148gr wadcutters and they are very accurate. Elmer Keith was a big fan of turning the flat, front side of the wadcutter bullet and seating it backwards, creating a hollow point.

[jg rider]

It's basically a hollow point wadcutter bullet. Wadecutters were popular with PPC revolver competitions. I've actually reloaded several 148gr wadcutters and they are very accurate. Elmer Keith was a big fan of turning the flat, front side of the wadcutter bullet and seating it backwards, creating a hollow point.

That's what this is, Kieth recipe. IIRC the ideal charge was about 5.0 gr of unique for about 850 fps. They expanded to about .060" but shallow penetration into water jugs. Ballistic gelatin wasn't used / invented yet.

Then Scorpion took it a step further and added a post. Then IIRC someone else named Budachowsky (sp ?) used a steel post. And again IIRC it was used by prison guards in NYS prisons. It was so long ago I could be wrong

[Chihuahua Floyd]

It's basically a hollow point wadcutter bullet. Wadecutters were popular with PPC revolver competitions. I've actually reloaded several 148gr wadcutters and they are very accurate. Elmer Keith was a big fan of turning the flat, front side of the wadcutter bullet and seating it backwards, creating a hollow point.
Jacketed hollow base wadcutter, wonder why it time so long for someone to invent it. The HBWC loaded backwards is awesome at close range.
CF

[JohnR]

Makes me wonder what would happen if someone simply shortened a .38 case and inserted a normal projectile and standard powder load. You'd get a carbon ring in the cylinder, but you do in a .357 chamber anyway. If you can shoot a .22 Short in a .22LR cylinder, why not?

[jg rider]

Makes me wonder what would happen if someone simply shortened a .38 case and inserted a normal projectile and standard powder load. You'd get a carbon ring in the cylinder, but you do in a .357 chamber anyway. If you can shoot a .22 Short in a .22LR cylinder, why not?

John,

I did a search and found these. I didn't know it was being done for competition. Did you know ?


Posted November 4, 2016

Need 38 short colt load for uspsa and Big Dawg plates. I have 160 & 135 Bayou and Blue 147 all 38 caliber.

Dillon 550 with .38 sizing die, 9mm bell & 9mm seater die. My concern is the crimping. I have a 9mm lee U die

and std. 9mm crimp die. shooting 627 pc (357/38) . which crimp die is preferred and how much crimp .

Quote

Taroman

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Posted November 4, 2016

I started loading Short Colt with both 135 and 160s. Purchased a Lee Short Colt die set. That crimp die has no markings.

Don't use a heavy crimp, just remove the flair and a bit more.

I quickly gave up on Shorts for 2 reasons. Odd expensive brass and got some pressure signs.

Quickly readjusted the dies for 38 mid (Special cases trimmed to .900") same as 38 Super. Just works better for me. After more experiments, I cut the cases to .850". Loading 160s over VV N310 to a PF of 115.

Start low and work up.

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jcc7x7

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Posted November 4, 2016 (edited)

38 sht colt

3.0 grs titegroup

160 Bayou

1.150 col

.002 crimp Lee fcd

129 pf, very accurate out of my 2 627's
Edited November 4, 2016 by jcc7x7

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Since God is for you who can successfully be against you!






Kurusty

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Posted November 4, 2016

I use the Lee 38 special "U" die with the Lee 38 short Colt due set with the Lee FCD (9mm) with no problems with the 160 Bayous. My crimp is approximate .001. I would think that if your brass isn't expanding and you only use that gun, you shouldn't have any problems. When I shot short colts out of my 9mm cylinder they bulged really bad and I chose not to shoot them in that gun anymore.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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pskys2

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Posted November 6, 2016 (edited)

Bayou 160 Coated RN 38 short colt f100 OAL 1.180 Taper Crimp .370 2.7 clays or 3.0 titegroup give 830+f/s & 130+PF.

When I tried to drop the OAL below 1.180 found an occasional bulged case from a combo of bullet too deep and the web of case too thick.

25 yd accuracy in my 627 pc 5" is one ragged hole 1.5" or less. Recoil is bunny fart type to me, less than any 9mm semi-auto.

Tried Roll Crimp and didn't see any advantage, so I'm using a Taper Crimp at anything from .365 to .371. Don't see any bullet pull and the Taper Crimp seems to feed smoother.

Haven't seen any pressure issues, well one 147 plated load that I loaded with way too much powder and had a sticky case issue, but not with any of my other sane loads.

Another note if you use the light clays load get the Dillon Small Powder Charge Bar and if you have an option Don't Use the new style powder measure. The anti=double feed arm seems to cause light loads with clays at the 2.7 charge weight. The Titegroup load seems more consistent in the new Dillon powder measure, Titegroup just seems to get the gun hotter quicker.

FWIW my gun loves the 160 but the lighter bullet weights, and I did try the 135 Bayou's, added an inch or more to the groups.
Edited November 6, 2016 by pskys2



Here's another post

Posted September 12, 2016

I just got a 627 and intend to 38 Shoot Short Colt brass out of it for ICORE. I have a plethora of WSF powder on hand as I stocked up for use with 9mm in my now retired 929(learned to hate that gun). I norrmaly just set out to R&D loads myself and enjoy doing so. Unfortunately I dont have the time to spend collecting data and results these days. Si I am going the time saver route and asking you folks if you have already experimented with WSF in the short colt and to share your data and load as well as dislikes or likes. I appreciate anything you can share.

Quote

-BallisticianX
"Challenging Ballistics and Creating Ammo Excellence"

USPSA, ICORE, IDPA & Steel Challenge Competitor
2010 Connecticut State ICORE Championship Open Div., High Unclassified

'12 &'13 ICORE New England Regional Championships 3rd Place -Open Division.

2014 ICORE New England Regional Championships Overall Runner Up

2015 ICORE New England Regional Championships 2nd Place Open, 3rd Overall.

acoop101

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Posted September 14, 2016

I loaded wsf for short colt using 9mm load data with no problems. I was shooting 148 grain hbwc for entertainment.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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pskys2

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Posted September 15, 2016

usually takes a bit more powder in the short colt.

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BallisticianX

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Posted September 17, 2016

4.2 gr over a cast and hitek coated 135 gr RN made 123 pf out of my 627-5 PC. Accuracy was not too good. I will do some more experimenting with different weight bullets. Unfortunately it wont be for another month. The Barrel was mounted on a considerable cant(over rotated) of which I was gonna let slide as Im shooting open revo and the canted sight was a non issue. But after my second round of test loads the action got stiff and I found the cylinder is dragging across the barrel face. Most likely because the barrel was overtightened closing off the cylinder gap. THen again it could be too much end shake too. It's not out of the question for what I've seen roll out of the S&W Perfromance (or as I call it the "Poorformance) Center. It on its way back to Springfield MA for a proper fix, or hopes of a proper fix....never know with them these days!

Quote

-BallisticianX
"Challenging Ballistics and Creating Ammo Excellence"

USPSA, ICORE, IDPA & Steel Challenge Competitor
2010 Connecticut State ICORE Championship Open Div., High Unclassified

'12 &'13 ICORE New England Regional Championships 3rd Place -Open Division.

2014 ICORE New England Regional Championships Overall Runner Up

2015 ICORE New England Regional Championships 2nd Place Open, 3rd Overal

[JohnR]

That's some hardcore wildcatting going on there. Maybe it's an answer to a question no one's asked, but with modern powder, why not update the venerable .38 Special cartridge with a shorter case, allowing a shorter cylinder and lighter smaller gun, with the same (or better or more consistent) ballistics compared to .38 Special.

Maybe Kahr can do that for their first revolver design, to be released shortly after the Gen 2, and the K45.

[jg rider]

Did a little more searching. It seems to allow for higher pressures, the .38 cases are sometimes cut to .38 super length. And loaded with 147 / 9mm data. Starline sells .38 short brass but not in .38 super length. I'm thinking of pulled Fed. 147 HST bullets in shortened .38 brass.

I like your idea of shorter cylinders for lighter, smaller guns. But I have a .38 S&W 341 Titanium. It weighs 14.6 oz. loaded with my 125 / Fed. Nyclads, and even with my really light plinking 3--- / 700x with my cast 150 gr. bullet it hurts. My wife calls it "the gun from hell"
Hummm! I never thought of this before, I may try to shoot my 124 9mm cast out of the .38

Are you kidding about a Kahr revolver ?

[JohnR]

Are you kidding about a Kahr revolver ?
Well, Kimber came out with one. :rolleyes:

The Airweights don't need lightening, but a full size GP100 or SW686 could stand to lose a few ounces and still shoot just fine. My SP101 might get jumpy if it got any lighter. I hate shooting the LCR.

[jg rider]

[QUOTE=JohnR;383755]Well, Kimber came out with one. :rolleyes: QUOTE]

I thought you were being serious :(

[ct9kahrtoter]

Does anyone here remember these loads from the 70's

148 gr. Hornady HBWC seated backwards. & a 125 gr. jacketed soft lead H.P. with steel ball in the cavity


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00016.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jgriders/media/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00016.jpg.html)

Then company IIRC named Scorpian added a post. That was the start of the Fed. Hydra Shock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkk41/hydrashok38_zpsk5g2oqqu.jpg]

This is what I carry in S&W 341 TI.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00014.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jgriders/media/Snubbie%20Test/DSC00014.jpg.html)

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Smith%20Revolvers/09Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jgriders/media/Smith%20Revolvers/09Smithmodifiedgrips.jpg.html)

I can't find the new HST's anywhere. But I'm lookingWell, that certainly opens up nice.

[CPTKILLER]

The closest I found were Federal .38 Special Wadcutters. That is definitely not a good defense round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQEP0xSaCYI

[Bawanna]

I carry those Nyclads in my Cobra and my wife's 638. I don't have many left and don't see them around anymore.