Kahr doesn't cover shipping for warranty work???

[photoman12001]

I rented a MK9 a few weeks ago and absolutely had to own one after shooting it. I liked it better than my Glocks and SIGs (P239 is tough to beat) but maybe not my HK P7. The MK9 was accurate, easy on the eyes and didn't seem to be any bigger than neccessary. After searching for a used one I finally settled on buying a new one.

When I went to shoot my new MK9 it performed pretty poorly. It was reliable but not accurate at all. The shots were all far to the right and stringing up and down. I wouldn't even call them a group. After 500 rounds I saw no difference. If I shot from a rest and really concentrated the groups got slightly better but still shot far right. So I rented the MK9 I shot before and shot 100 rounds through the pistols side-by-side at 25 feet using a Weaver stance, the same magazine and the same ammunition. Rental gun: nice groups at or near the center of the target. My gun: nothing that in my opinion can be called a group from a $700 pistol.

http://digitalperspective.org/images/_DSC1888%20Edit%20Layers%201024%20Pixel.jpg
The area highlighted green is the group from the rental gun. The other "group" is from my new pistol.

So I photographed the last target I shot and emailed it to Kahr asking for a solution. They stated they would be happy to accuracy test it for me if I shipped it to them UPS air or FEDEX overnight. Both cost about the same; $60!!!! I shipped it to them; what else could I do? I won't even carry the gun as it is now.

Experienced Kahr owners, is this normal? This year I've sent guns to S&W, SIG and Magnum Research for warranty work and they covered shipping both ways. I've owned this thing for 2 weeks. I felt I got a good deal on it new but now I wish I hadn't bought it with the extra $60 tacked on. I really just wanted to buy the rental gun but they wouldn't sell it.

[The Habernatho]

When I called Kahr about my problems, I made it a point to ask who was covering the shipping charges. They covered the charges and gave me their fed-ex account # to charge it to. According to Ian(no longer there) as long as its within warranty they pay the shipping, fwiw though I've seen similar post like yours. Unfortunately, I'm sure it just depends on who you talk to there.

[Bawanna]

I think it's mostly asking about it before you ship. There is a new Ian, different spelling but so far a good track record. I'm not sure what they will do if anything after the fact on the shipping but I'd certainly ask.
Are you right handed or left handed? Not that it really matters as the rental gun is putting them in there where as yours is not.
You've certainly out enough rounds thru it to be working out the accuracy issue. The reliable report is good to hear. The accuracy I'm sure can be worked out.

[wyntrout]

I certainly think that they should pay for pickup and shipping. My P380 has been back twice... the last time was in the same box as my PM45 on its third trip back... to replace the weakly engraved replacement slide from the second trip. Kahr paid for pickup by FedEx on all. My having to pay shipping never came up or I would have asked for them to cover it.
Wynn

[GOOFA]

photoman12001...

I do not agree with Kahr making you pay the freight on a new gun. Your target is quite normal for many. I myself had my share of shots going 3-4 inches to the left of center when the guns were new and not broken in. The range gun has had thousands of rounds through it, so its no surprise to me that you or anyone else would be more accurate with that than a brand new Kahr. I have purchased ten Kahr's and go through this each and every time I get a new Kahr till broken in. I am a righty and righties have the tendency to go left and lefties, right. Patience my friend. Call CS and let them know your feelings about paying the freight. Tell them that people on this forum have sent their's in and Kahr has given them a call tag to cover the cost. Maybe they will compensate you by offering you an extra mag or credit etc. Be NICE.

[jocko]

are you right or left hand shooter.

The back sights on your MK is adjustable also for right or lefts. Both groups are to the right, just my opinion, this is shooter issues, not gun issues. As you wellknow by not there si a big big difference in the trigger systems of glocks, sigs compared to the kahr. Big difference. Your accuracy will get better also.

I can understand why kahr would not to ship it back under the circumstances also. If it was gun issue related, ie. ftf, fte's etc, then indeed I think they should pick up the tab and usually they will do that but what you are asking of them IMO is completely different. Now if they send it back with a new barrel or slide etc, then I would then pursue a reimbursement. Goofa IMO is dead on with his assumption....

are u right or left handed also..

For a first time poster, also u never stated how many rounds you had down range thorugh your MK either. Kahrs are not the easiest guns to shoot a syou have found out. there is a big differenc ein size also of your sigs and glocks over this MK kahr... Personally I think you have jumped the gun to quickly. Your groupls are just so so typical of most kahr shooters.

These groupls could have easily been adjusted to the left by moving the rear sight just a tad,

[photoman12001]

photoman12001...

I do not agree with Kahr making you pay the freight on a new gun. Your target is quite normal for many. I myself had my share of shots going 3-4 inches to the left of center when the guns were new and not broken in. The range gun has had thousands of rounds through it, so its no surprise to me that you or anyone else would be more accurate with that than a brand new Kahr. I have purchased ten Kahr's and go through this each and every time I get a new Kahr till broken in. I am a righty and righties have the tendency to go left and lefties, right. Patience my friend. Call CS and let them know your feelings about paying the freight. Tell them that people on this forum have sent their's in and Kahr has given them a call tag to cover the cost. Maybe they will compensate you by offering you an extra mag or credit etc. Be NICE.

I'm going to call and talk to them on Monday. I am interested in wood grips and having XS night sights installed so maybe I can work something out. I'm always nice to any customer service because you rarely get anywhere otherwise.

I have to disagree with breaking in a gun for accuracy; maybe reliability but not accuracy. If you have experienced this with your Kahrs obviously I cannot dispute it but it doesn't make me happy. What do you think led to greater accuracy with more rounds? The trigger smoothing out maybe?

This is my first Kahr but I've owned many other handguns (see below) and they were either accurate or they were not; most were accurate. I never noticed any greater accuracy with time and with the price of these Kahrs it shouldn't even be an issue. Honestly, the only gun I've owned that was consistently inaccurate like this MK9 was the S&W 351PD .22WMR. It also shot far to the right. I sent it back to S&W on their dime, they replaced the barrel and it's been great ever since.

Browning BDA, (3) Buckmark
Glock 19, 36, 26
SIG P230, P232, P220 Equinox, P239, P238 Nitron/Rosewood, P238 HD
S&W 351PD, 6814 Performance Center .357, Model 41, 66, 442
HK P7, USP
Ruger MKIII, MKII
Beretta (2) 85, 21A, 92G Elite II, 948
CZ 52
Kimber Pro Tactical in 9mm (awesome accuracy but horrible reliability)
Springfield Armory 1911-A1

[Internet Blohard]

I would consider running a 2-3 hundred more rounds thru it (maybe various brands as well) before making any conclusions. You might also consider shooting from a rest...taking the time to focus on fundamentals and making each shot deliberate. Keep records of what/how you are shooting on the targets. Give your groups a chance to tighten up. As you say, there could be an issue with your particular gun.

The Kahr "is" a very different trigger from the P7, the Glock, the 239, etc. I can get much better accuracy with my P7 and my 239 (at least at the moment) than with my MK or my PM (as they are easier for almost everyone to shoot)....although my K9 is close to the Sig. Few non-target centerfire pistols can match the P7 (with it's fixed barrel and surperb trigger) for accuracy.

[jocko]

the gun does get more accurate with rounds down range. Simply because you the shooter and the gun mate up properly. All guns shoot differently. All guns have a different trigger pull, If you think you gonna shoot your kahr as accurate as that pro tactical, then your just fooling yourself.

Had you come to this forum before sending it back we could have showed you how to save big bucks in sending it back also. had you boughty it from a dealer, he could have sent it back for about 1/5th the price, had you not bought it from a local dealer, one could still ask them to send it back for the 1/5th price saving. Most dealers will work with a gun owner. Also UPS next day shipment is their policy not federal law, you could have sent it back UPS and just never told them what was inside, as they would not ask either, nor have the right to inspect it. I have sent many of high speed hole punches back over the years..

Kahrs are smooth as glass but no doubt more rounds out of any gun mates the gun up better and sometimes it will improve accuracy. Not trying to be radical here with you but trying to give some insights. I am not a good shooter, #1. But I have 30,000 rounds thorugh my PM9 and at 10 yards my groups are at best maybe 4 inches(standing) and if I do my part they will be all around dead center but when I don't do my part my groups for me will always be a tad right of center.( I am a left hand shooter) The up and downs to me are just sight picture, left and rights are adjustable. I have my rear sight moved on my PM9 to adjust for my shoooing ills.

If you get some snap caps and throw a half dozen in with 30 rounds and let a person load your magazine for you and you not knowing if any snap caps are in the magazine, I can assure you it will show you big time if you have any shooting issues

I would be very surprised to hear if you have a bad barrel or slide causing this issue, hopefully in your case you are right to but I just doubt it.

If your having issue now with accuracy with the standard "good" kahr sight, then I will say that if you put the xs sights on, you will not be happy. they are not target sights. They are a very fast acquistion "fighting" sight. Your accuracy will not improve over the standard kahr sights. I have xs sights and I love them but they are what they are. They cover alot of target, (alot) and for me are a super POA type sight. It is a great defense sight but beyond 15 yards they cover way to much, again xs will even tell you that, so think about that before you do it. No doubt if you want t6 do it while it is there have kahr do it for you as those factroy sights are a real ***** to move even let alone remove

I would have to agree also with Internet Blohard. More rounds down range might have shown you that sending it back was not necessary. Of the 10 guns you mentioned owning , none has the trigger system tat kahr has. there is a difference, none will fit in your pocket like that MK will either..

[photoman12001]

I would consider running a 2-3 hundred more rounds thru it (maybe various brands as well) before making any conclusions. You might also consider shooting from a rest...taking the time to focus on fundamentals and making each shot deliberate. Keep records of what/how you are shooting on the targets. Give your groups a chance to tighten up. As you say, there could be an issue with your particular gun.

The Kahr "is" a very different trigger from the P7, the Glock, the 239, etc. I can get much better accuracy with my P7 and my 239 (at least at the moment) than with my MK or my PM (as they are easier for almost everyone to shoot)....although my K9 is close to the Sig. Few non-target centerfire pistols can match the P7 (with it's fixed barrel and surperb trigger) for accuracy.

I tried shooting from a rest really concentrating and that resulted in only slightly tighter groups. I gave it a break-in period of 500 rounds and nothing seemed to get any better. I don't know, maybe it is me. Maybe the Kahr trigger just doesn't agree with me. The only experience I have with them is the is the rental I shot and this one. If I shot the rental like I do mine I never would have purchased one at all. I'll see what Kahr has to say about it. Maybe if there's no problem with mine I can get my local dealer to swap mine for the rental...

Jocko, I have the XS sights on my Glock 26 (which the Kahr was purchased to replace; the 26 is too thick for me) and they work great for me on that pistol. No it doesn't shoot like that Kimber did but I would expect neither the Glock nor Kahr to do so. Both are a heck of a lot more reliable than the Kimber though. I would have sought advice before shipping but I'm going on a military deployment soon and don't have a lot of time for turn-around. I'd like to get the pistol back before I go.

I have learned one thing from all this. I probably won't be buying new pistols on Gunbroker anymore. The transaction was fine but now I don't have an option for support after the purchase. No dealers around here had an MK9 and they couldn't even order them right now.

[OldLincoln]

I certainly think that they should pay for pickup and shipping. My P380 has been back twice... the last time was in the same box as my PM45 on its third trip back... to replace the weakly engraved replacement slide from the second trip. Kahr paid for pickup by FedEx on all. My having to pay shipping never came up or I would have asked for them to cover it.
WynnThey replaced your slide for the engraving? How bad was it? I think mine is almost non-existant - see for yourself:
http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-oldlincolns-pm9-picture317-pm9-slide.jpg

Think they would replace mine and pay shipping?

[Bawanna]

That should go back. It ain't right. Wynns was about the same, maybe even a tad worse. They shined him on first time with some talk about it meeting specs. The new Ian I believe saw a picture he sent after much prodding from the masses and they restamped it and it looks great now.
Send kahr that picture, and get it fixed.

[jocko]

four sure it needs to go back, they will replace it. shouldhave never left the building either..

If you just send the slide back,u caqn do it throgh regular mail for less than $5. They don'tneed the entire gun..

[jocko]

photoman, are you a right or left hand shooter???

[OldLincoln]

Oops, I guess I did it again.... Sorry Photoman, I sometimes react to a post without giving proper consideration. Last post I promise....
I'll send email w/ pic to new Ian and if they okay it, will mail the slide only after my carry holster arrives for the Commander.

Thanks

[wyntrout]

That slide is at least as bad as mine was. They should pay for shipping and have FedEx pick it up. They might need the whole gun for fitting. I sent mine back for the slide re-replacement and I got a new barrel, too.
Action taken: Inspected. Replaced slide. test fired. Replaced barrel. Lubed and test fired ok.
I don't know if I got an entirely new slide or they re-rolled the engraving and refinished it. That was an option if they couldn't find another DLC slide.
After I got the PM45 back, I had problems and eventually had to get a slide lock spring, washer and screw. I posted pix of this...
slide:
http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/2700-boomers-back.html

slide lock spring (07-19/9:20PM):
http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/2774-new-380-same-issues.html

They also sent me two sets of springs, washers, and screws, and two new slide locks as well. When I was putting one in, I noticed they weren't DLC, so I just used the old one. The original one has the two-part pin and the newer ones were one-piece. I sent those back to them. Okay, you have a two-part if you can hold the pin tightly and move the lever around while the pin doesn't move.
My slide lock was backing out and causing problems. This fixed that. If you're replacing the spring, you should get a new washer, too. It's nice to have one that's possibly not warped.
I still had to do some polishing and use the DLT. I made the notch bigger, increased the bevel, and polished the heck out of everything, especially the feed ramp and the underside of the slide, including the bevel.
It shoots great now, but requires a real FIRM grip to stop stove pipes. I used to be able to hold it real "loosey goosey" and not have malfunctions.
A significant result of the poor engraving is the diminished value of the gun.:eek:
Wynn:D

[photoman12001]

photoman, are you a right or left hand shooter???

I'm right-handed.

I just got off the phone with Kahr and that was the worst customer service phone call I've ever had. This is not verbatim but the conversation went something like this:

Me: Hi, I just sent my MK9 in to be looked at because I doesn't seem to be performing as it should. I was a little surprised to have to pay to ship it to you to be examined under warranty.

Rep: We don't cover shipping costs for warranty issues.

Me: Oh, well that that's just not the experience I'm used to with other firearm manufacturers. Others have always covered shipping costs for warranty issues.

Rep: ............................ (He said nothing.)

Me: Um, OK. I had some other questions about having night sights installed...

After I mentioned spending money on something the rep seemed more enthusiastic. In most situations I'm not very confrontational so I didn't mention anything farther. I was polite as I always am.

I bought the MK9 new for more money than a used one because I wanted the peace of mind of a factory warranty since I was buying over the internet. This was not money well spent. Kahr is charging SIG prices and I expected SIG level customer service. I've had to send both P238's to SIG and my experiences were fine. The SIG reps say "There's something wrong with your pistol? Expect a shipping label in your email inbox in a few moments."

I was very interested in buying a K9 and P380 but Kahr will see no more money from me. If this MK9 comes back shooting better I'll keep it. If not then I will probably sell it. I'm not interested in shooting any more ammo through it to "smooth it out". With 9mm costing $10/box on average around here I've already dumped $100 of ammo into it with no better results. Every time I pulled the trigger I just saw $$$$'s flying out of the barrel.

I've got my SIG P238s for summer carry and P239 for cold weather. They shoot well without being "broken in". The P238s needed warranty work but at least it didn't cost me anything. When I pull the trigger on those I smile.

By the way, if any of that sounds grumpy it's not directed at anyone here. This Kahr experience has just left me very dissatisfied. Maybe SIG and S&W have just spoiled me.

BTW, the rep who I emailed with originally and instructed me to ship it on my dime was Eoin Pryal. I believe this is the same person I talked to today.

[deadhead1971]

Keep us posted on what happens. All eyes are watching.

[jocko]

I started to answer your last post but have since decided it is not worth it. When u get your MK back peddle it and go back to sigs. they are great guns..

[quikduk]

It is too bad that you have soured on Kahrs. I too bought my MK through the Web and after running about 300+ rds through it, it shoots just like it did out of the box...perfectly. :D

I have had one SP when I limp-wristed it due to becoming tired at having to "work" 200 rds through it...but someone had to do it. :D

Pistols are in some sense like anything else that is mass produced. Sometimes you get a lemon. I would talk to Ian and ask what he can do to help you with the issues you are having.

Without him being there to shoot yours and the rental, your comments are just subjective. I believe you are having these issues but it is like trying to have the auto mechanic diagnose your car problem over the phone.

Who knows, you might get a thoroughly massaged custom MK back from Kahr for your trouble as they do care about their customers. Maybe the guy you spoke to had a day like me today...:confused:

[jocko]

hell, maybe I will have to eat my words to and that maybe kahr will find something serioulsly wrong with the barrel/slide combo and replace it. Won't be the first time for me on that either. If that being the case, then I would call kahr and kindly talk to them about a reimbursement on your postage as indeed there was something wrong with the gun that warranted replacement of parts etc. They might give you a exrtra magazine. One can certainly ask.

One thing I have stated in the past and I stand by my statement: If you loose faith in a product, be it a gun, car or what ever, PEDDLE it and move on, Especially in a defense gun, if you truly can't trust it, then why have it, no sin in peddling it eiter.

I know of quite a few people who peddle their perfectly working kahrs BECAUSE they cannot shoot it as accurate as they can their so and so other guns. That is reason enough for some. again no sin in that. Many on this forum have stated kahrs are not the easiest to shoot, they have a looooong but smooth trigger system that one IMO just does not get used to in 50 or 100 or 200 rounds even.

I have over 30,000 rounds through my PM9 and I can tell you i shoot my G19 5X more accurate than my PM9 but you know what. It is just do damn big for 24/7 pocket carry and 4" groups for me out of my PM9 suits me just fine, for I also accept this small gun for what it is truly made for. UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL..

so photoman, I am truly not trying to hammer you or bend your crank over this MK thing. My personal comments are mine and not having your gun in my hands then I like others are speculating. Your groups from what I seen were not that bad, you didn't state if that was in the first 50 rounds or 500 rounds either. No doubt 100 rounds the shooter is not yet adjusted to the kahr trigger system. It is different and alot different than the two sigs u mentioned also ALOT. I can sur ein the hellshoot my model 60 smith 5x as accurate in single action mode over double action mode and why is that?????There is a difference as u all know..

[Internet Blohard]

Now that we know that you have 500 rounds in and that the groups are as they are....and that you did much better with another MK, then perhaps it really is something with piece itself as you have ruled out the obvious variables....the main one being simply getting used to the trigger and the smaller frame.

Hopefully the manufacturer will test it themselves and replace offending parts or whatever.

Should they have paid for the return? I think so....and perhaps they will yet.

[photoman12001]

Sorry for the long delay but Uncle Sam sent me on little trip and I haven't been able to get on here until now.

My overall opinion of Kahr customer service certainly did not improve with the events that unfolded since I last posted. Eventually Eoin called me to say the pistol was ready but wanted to discuss installing night sights as I had asked about. He left me a message to call him back.

When we discussed the sights before he stated the cost would be $80 for the sights and $40 for installation which seemed high to me. When I bought night sights in the past installation was ususally covered or cost about $10. I decided I have them installed anyway. When I called back to tell him to install the sights I talked to someone named Justin. Justin told me the total cost would now be $145! He was going to charge me $25 to ship the pistol back even though they were shipping it back free without the sights being installed. I told him to forget about it and just ship the gun back to me.

So I waited about 10 days; no pistol. At this point I'm leaving for the Middle East in one day. I called Kahr and talked to Eoin again. He stated he was waiting to hear from me about the night sights. I explained to him what happened and that I had already addressed that. He sent the gun to me next day air and I received it 45 minutes before I left to catch my plane. I appreciated the expedited shipping but since it was their screw up in the first place it wasn't an overwhelming jesture.

Obviously I could not shoot the gun before I left and won't be home for a few months. All they did was shoot 5 rounds through it and say nothing was wrong. They sent the target to me. Three rounds made a nice group in the center. Two of them were flyers noted as shooter error. I didn't find this to be very inspiring either. A factory test shooter only got 3/5 rounds into a nice grouping? Were the other 2 rounds his first attempts before adjusting point of aim?

I'll shoot the thing when I get home and if it performs as before it's gone. Maybe someone else can shoot it better. I know it's not the platform since I can shoot the rental MK9 well. I'm looking to buy a good revolver for hiking anyway so the MK9 may make room for that guy. It's a shame because I love the look, feel and reliability of the pistol.

I've read other posts since mine about great CS from Kahr and one where a guy argued his way into getting shipping label. I don't want hit/miss CS and I certainly don't want to argue to be treated as I valued customer. Kahr will definitely see no more of my business.

Anyone willing to trade a lightly used MK9 for a Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum with a 4" barrel?

[photoman12001]

hell, maybe I will have to eat my words to and that maybe kahr will find something serioulsly wrong with the barrel/slide combo and replace it. Won't be the first time for me on that either. If that being the case, then I would call kahr and kindly talk to them about a reimbursement on your postage as indeed there was something wrong with the gun that warranted replacement of parts etc. They might give you a exrtra magazine. One can certainly ask.

One thing I have stated in the past and I stand by my statement: If you loose faith in a product, be it a gun, car or what ever, PEDDLE it and move on, Especially in a defense gun, if you truly can't trust it, then why have it, no sin in peddling it eiter.

I know of quite a few people who peddle their perfectly working kahrs BECAUSE they cannot shoot it as accurate as they can their so and so other guns. That is reason enough for some. again no sin in that. Many on this forum have stated kahrs are not the easiest to shoot, they have a looooong but smooth trigger system that one IMO just does not get used to in 50 or 100 or 200 rounds even.

I have over 30,000 rounds through my PM9 and I can tell you i shoot my G19 5X more accurate than my PM9 but you know what. It is just do damn big for 24/7 pocket carry and 4" groups for me out of my PM9 suits me just fine, for I also accept this small gun for what it is truly made for. UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL..

so photoman, I am truly not trying to hammer you or bend your crank over this MK thing. My personal comments are mine and not having your gun in my hands then I like others are speculating. Your groups from what I seen were not that bad, you didn't state if that was in the first 50 rounds or 500 rounds either. No doubt 100 rounds the shooter is not yet adjusted to the kahr trigger system. It is different and alot different than the two sigs u mentioned also ALOT. I can sur ein the hellshoot my model 60 smith 5x as accurate in single action mode over double action mode and why is that?????There is a difference as u all know..


The target I posted was the last one I shot with the MK9s. The big group to the right was from the last few clips I fired through my pistol after about 500 rounds total (not all in the same day). I set my MK9 down and picked up the rental to shoot the better group highlighted in green. I was literally shooting the MK9s side-by-side. I would shoot mine and get bad groups then pick up the rental and shoot good groups using the same ammunition and clips on both guns.

The group from mine may not be too bad but it's bad compared to any of my other handguns or the groups I get with the rental MK9. I don't shoot for a living but I'm a pretty good handgun shooter. The only gun I shot as badly as my MK9 was a S&W 442 Airweight .38Spl. But I know that the light weight and heavy, gritty trigger caused my bad groups with the 442. I just couldn't shoot that one well so I got rid of it (traded toward a S&W Model 41).

The performance of my MK9 really vexes me. I don't get any better results shooting from a rested position and I can set mine down, pick the rental up and shoot decent groups time after time. It's really a mystery to me. I'll give it another chance when I get home.

[wyntrout]

I can see Kahr's point about the POA vs. POI. That's very dependent on the operator. It was test fired and passed before being sold, and they test fired it after you sent it back. It performed to their satisfaction or accuracy standards. There's not much they can do in that situation. It would make no sense to adjust the sights if they met standards.
Perhaps the difference between the two guns is the wear and easier trigger pull??
Wynn

[photoman12001]

I can see Kahr's point about the POA vs. POI. That's very dependent on the operator. It was test fired and passed before being sold, and they test fired it after you sent it back. It performed to their satisfaction or accuracy standards. There's not much they can do in that situation. It would make no sense to adjust the sights if they met standards.
Perhaps the difference between the two guns is the wear and easier trigger pull??
Wynn


It's certainly possible and probably the best explanation. But shooting the two guns side-by-side they certainly don't feel very different. I would be happy if mine would shoot a tighter group. Then I could adjust POA appropriately. But the bullets from my pistol string up and down badly no matter how much I concentrate on trigger control.

The poor groups are my main concern, not so much point of impact. I can't adjust for bad groups. I guess there's really nothing to be done. The funny thing is, this is one of the only times I've rented a gun before buying it. I've rarely regretted buying cold turkey but the MK9 I bought didn't live up to the standard the rental set for me. Maybe I should stick to the buy-first-shoot-later method.

On a side note, I saw that Kahr bought Magnum Research. I just happened to send a rifle back to MR at the same time I sent this MK9 to Kahr. MR's customer service was very good, in stark contrast to my Kahr experience. I hope the MR service standard prevails in that merger. In fact, MR even sent me an email when they shipped my gun back. No other company has done that and I wish they would. How hard can it be? Then I know when to try and be home so I can save a trip to the FedEx service center.

My MR MLR 17-22 is awesome too. With a Hogue overmolded stock, Harris bipod and Leupold 2-7X28 scope I've gotten a few 10-shot groups that hide under a dime at 75 feet while shooting prone, if I really concentrate. I'd like to find an outdoor range to really test its capabilities.

[wyntrout]

These are not target-shooting pistols, but I've seen some results posted by more capable members with 2" groups at 15 yards... or 25 yards... which is phenomenal to me! At 15 yards and my normal too-fast rate of firing, I'm lucky to get half on a pie plate. Often the first shot is dead center... and it goes downhill rapidly from there.

I'm practicing for defensive shooting and I don't figure I'll have 10 to 15 seconds.. or even 2 or 3 seconds to leisurely aim... while ducking and dodging. Hopefully, some of my fire will throw the perps fire off or make them duck, too.

The Kahr trigger takes getting used to. Pulling ONLY the trigger... and straight back. there are a bunch of things that affect the bullets' point of impact before it leaves the barrel. Search this forum for shooting tips and do a lot of dry firing, watching for things that make the gun move. Then at the range concentrate on doing the right things.
Having someone load a few snap caps in with live ammo at the range can be a real eye opener when you try to fire a snap cap and show any errors... can be embarrassing... I did this while testing various magazines that didn't lock the slide back on empty. :rolleyes:
It's worth the trouble, and it can be a challenge to learn to shoot these little pistols, but a lot of people do so.
Wynn:)