How to give yourself a headache

[Harrylee]

Well here I go again with my curiosity, most of the time my mind won’t shut down. So anyway I was thinking about gun powders and burn rate. Now we will all look at the burn rate charts and they list fast to slow but that’s it, no other info is given. So I decided to do a test of my own, doing the tests was the easy part. Doing all the video editing was another story, slow computer and self taught for the software and mistakes in editing made this take what seems like ever like voice-over track, adding text layers, putting in a stop watch and synchronize to frames, and oh yeah hit the button and SH!T where did it all go moments. So being the smart and hard-headed guy I am and many hours later I finally got it done. Now I never saw anyone do this the way I did , so looks like I may be the first one on the block to do it this way:cool:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mco0mvxW2gA

[Ed M]

Fascinating - nice work!

I reload 9mm, and this backs up my observation that 231 (actually HP38) is the cleanest powder I've used....

[Bawanna]

Nice effort as usual Harry. I can appreciate the time and effort and Advil expended to put that together.

EdM's post is interesting to me as I use 231 in 45 and 45 Colt and I've thought of trying something different as it runs pretty dirty for me. Maybe I need to up the load a bit or something.........

I actually haven't been shooting enough lately and haven't reloaded in a long time. I made a pretty good pile last time I did.
I need to sort out a good 45 Colt load though, getting way low on that.

[Harrylee]

Bawanna are you getting any black carbon around the cases? If you are then the charge is to low to seal the case and you’ll get blow back from the carbon back into the gun. Which will make clean up more work. Got me a 8lb. Jug of CFE Pistol that I haven’t opened yet, may have to pop it open and do a burn test on. I’ll put up the results when I do, maybe this weekend.

[Bawanna]

That's exactly what I'm getting, black carbon on the cases. I had planned to up the load on both 45 and 45 Colt next time I load.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[wyntrout]

Very interesting, Harrylee! Thanks for your work and posting this. This reminds me of my lifelong obsession with gunpowder... from age 8, at least, in 1954. Back then my initial "testing" was with dud firecracker powder... hated to see it wasted! There were a lot of duds and I collected the powder for all kinds of experiments, including my own firecrackers and "crackerballs". :)

[gb6491]

Harrylee,
Thank you for another excellent video presenting very useful info. As before, I'd like express my appreciation for the time and effort involved in making this happen.

I do like knowing which powders do leave the least amount of residue and (from your previous video) which bullets/powder work best to keep the smoke down, but of late I've been thinking about just the opposite in regards to smoke. I happened to stumble upon a couple of videos in regards to using black powder in 45 ACP loads for the 1911.
I find myself liking the idea of keeping some of those in my range bag for those days when you need a "walk off home run" type of ending.
First of those vids :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk5Qcgq82ME
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

The second video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84J7VQ02CQ

[wyntrout]

I just watched a couple of these, but this one shows some burn rate differences with smokeless vs. black powder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTAKr3Y2EV0

[Harrylee]

Now another interesting thing here, I have all the after burn photos and you see the left over residue on the glass. And you can’t hardly scrap it off with you finger nail, you may think the stuff is etched into the glass. And really the glass barely got warm, I tested that before I started.
But the left over residue is some tough stuff and would take work with a razor to clean it off. So there is a product I use a lot called Dirtex and is called a multi surface cleaner (best glass cleaner you’ll ever find) so for the residue I sprayed that on gave it maybe 5 seconds and 90% of it would come of then hit it with a razor for the rest. Now I wouldn’t trust it to be safe on the polymer parts of a gun but it maybe be a great barrel and slide cleaner. Most Home Depot or Lowes have it in the paint section or paint stores, it’s commercial grade cleaner.
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14616&stc=1 http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14617&stc=1 http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14618&stc=1 http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14619&stc=1 http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14620&stc=1

[Bawanna]

I never heard of Dirtex before but never really looked either. I'll be looking next trip to Lowes.

I can't imagine it would be harmful to polymer frames at all but I guess one never knows until we check.

[Harrylee]

Bawanna just looked up Lowes and doesn’t look like they carry it. But I know my local Sherwin-Williams paint store has it, so I looked a Sherwin-Williams in your neck of the woods. But give them a call to see if they have it. I think this is some what close to ya.

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/store-locator/paint-store/monroe/wa/8618

[Bawanna]

Oh yeah, that's right downtown. Never been in it but it's close.
Thanks for your efforts in tracking it down for me.

[downtownv]

As usual Harry does, what most us rarely think about!
I did notice that you're carbon lines look suspicious (I just watched all 20 episodes of Narcos:D)

Aside from that THE best carbon remover ever made is This:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14624&stc=1

It's available at GM Dealers it crazy expensive (My SIL works for GM my cost $0.00) but they will sell it to you in small quantities (Bring your our bottle) like a hoppes clean and empty.
It is used to remove carbon in engines. Your car will smoke like an old Corvair until all the carbon is burned off.
But for guns it will wipe it off in one application.

Ok, I made my contribution to the thread.

Nice job Harry!

[knkali]

As usual Harry does, what most us rarely think about!
I did notice that you're carbon lines look suspicious (I just watched all 20 episodes of Narcos:D)

Aside from that THE best carbon remover ever made is This:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14624&stc=1

It's available at GM Dealers it crazy expensive (My SIL works for GM my cost $0.00) but they will sell it to you in small quantities (Bring your our bottle) like a hoppes clean and empty.
It is used to remove carbon in engines. Your car will smoke like an old Corvair until all the carbon is burned off.
But for guns it will wipe it off in one application.

Ok, I made my contribution to the thread.

Nice job Harry!

I have used that stuff in a motor and I agree with you that it is top shelf. Thanks for giving it another application.

[knkali]

Harry:

Great work. I loved watching that and reading your posts! Thank you.

[downtownv]

I have used that stuff in a motor and I agree with you that it is top shelf. Thanks for giving it another application.

You use 3 ounces to clean a car engine, That bottle is about $150 selling price!

[340pd]

Great work harrylee. Thank you.

[AIRret]

Bawanna are you getting any black carbon around the cases? If you are then the charge is to low to seal the case and you’ll get blow back from the carbon back into the gun. Which will make clean up more work. Got me a 8lb. Jug of CFE Pistol that I haven’t opened yet, may have to pop it open and do a burn test on. I’ll put up the results when I do, maybe this weekend.

Thanks for the information. We've been getting black carbon around out cases as well, especially the 9mm. I guess it's time for an adjustment.

That black carbon has been a "burning" question for me!!?!? Sorry, bad joke

[Harrylee]

Your welcome AIRret, it’s been a learning process for me but I just wanted to learn more and more. As far as the reloading manuals, I’ve not found one to give accurate info as far as advertised fps per they’re load when I chrono them. So I do a hand full test runs till I get the results I want. If you don’t have a chrono then up the load by .2 grains at a time. If it’s a new powder for me I’ll load up 10 rounds at minimum and let’s say for example 5g then 5.2g and 5.4. but when I shoot I keep the brass separated between the loads to inspect them. The brass needs enough pressure to fill out the chamber. So with that just do small runs till you find the sweet spot, sorry I can talk about this stuff for hours. Hope this helps
:Amflag2:

[Bawanna]

Keep talking, I got time.

[Harrylee]

OK you asked for it. So with our journey in reloading you’ll see minimum pressure listed and maximum pressure. So let’s start there, I pulled out my Lyman manual for reference and we’ll pick a 230 FMJ or as they call it a TMJ and we’ll use 231 as a powder. That’ our ingredients
so looking at the data the minimum load is 5.2 at 758 fps and 12,900 C.U.P. (Copper units of pressure) and a maximum of 5.8 at 849 and 16,200 C.U.P. Now forget C.U.P vs PSI for now and just use C.U.P. as our number. I believe the 758 @ 12,900 C.U.P. is correct but the powder charge is off as with the max charge at of 849 @ 16,200 C.U.P. and we'll work from fps from this point. The minimum pressure listed should make the case seal in the chamber but if not we need to up slightly. If a chrono is available then use it to find if they’re listing is correct, but we need to get the fps right, up or down by charge rate. Once we see the brass is clean with no black, at this point we can to start to make some decisions of how the ammo preforms as far as accuracy. I like to get the accuracy set with the least recoil. So I run my test from our test load once I found the real fps starting load and work up from there. Now this all being on the day you shoot, but I shoot the test loads and make a pick. This only matters in my mind if your going for some type of bulls eye shooting. If your going for a 8 inch plate for center mass not as critical. So YOU ASKED! So at the end of my test I what to see a target like this if I’m bulls eye shooting my 1911 at the 50 foot line

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14633&stc=1


And at close range with my carry 45 10 yards (3 mags, 27 rounds rapid fire)
I get thishttp://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14634&stc=1

[Bawanna]

I've reloaded for 40 years and never made the connection between to light a charge and black cases. Guess I'm a durn slow learner.
I need to up my 45 practice loads a bit, and my 45 Colt loads probably a lot. They get really black.

I'll get r dun one of these days, right now I have a headache.

[knkali]

You use 3 ounces to clean a car engine, That bottle is about $150 selling price!

That seems a bit high but still worth the price esp if it clean guns too!

[deadeye111]

Check the price on Amazon. 16 oz approx $23 plus freight. Anyone use it on blue S&W revolver cylinders. Judging from reviews on Amazon it might remove blue.