PM40 Failure to extract

[Texas48]

Shot my PM40 this morning. was running fine until I had 3 FTE's. Occurred with 2 out of 5 mags the other three mag run with no issues. Any input regarding possible causes. 1 happened with 6 round mag and 3 with new mags. After inspecting the mags found that the followers are not good. Looks like the Lakeline followers are messed up
in the left corner.
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14631&stc=1

[Texas48]

Sent the PM 40 back to Kahr through my FFl. Hoping they will fix both extraction issue and slide from smashing mag followers. One tech say under warranty other one said they will call me with any charges before they send back. I think I am about to get hit in the shorts on this one. My LGS will not even order a KAHR on special orders because of all the returns and issues. He stands by everything he sells, even used guns. Sending to Kahr free of charge to me. This LGS has been in business for 40 years and has the bests prices and reviews in this area. The CM9 I bought has been perfect over 300 rounds. The PM40 has not been as good. Will see what Kahr does.

[gb6491]

Sent the PM 40 back to Kahr through my FFl. Hoping they will fix both extraction issue and slide from smashing mag followers. One tech say under warranty other one said they will call me with any charges before they send back. I think I am about to get hit in the shorts on this one. My LGS will not even order a KAHR on special orders because of all the returns and issues. He stands by everything he sells, even used guns. Sending to Kahr free of charge to me. This LGS has been in business for 40 years and has the bests prices and reviews in this area. The CM9 I bought has been perfect over 300 rounds. The PM40 has not been as good. Will see what Kahr does.
The slide is not doing that damage to the followers.

[jocko]

gb is correct, your followers are being bashed by the feed ramp on the gun. Kahr will do a ramp job and that issue will be solved. More than likely that will solve the extraction issues also. Kahrs earl;ier bad rap, has not set well with LGS people.

[Alfonse]

When the followers are getting hit that hard, the rear leg of the aluminum followers can be bent inward, causing feeding issues as well. Relief needs to be ground in either the followers or the ramp on the barrel to make them all play well together.

[Texas48]

The slide is not doing that damage to the followers.

I misspoke it it the feed ramp smashing the followers. As I read here on Kahr Talk a common issue with older models


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[Texas48]

Sent my PM40 to Kahr after followers were being mangled. Returned it to me quickly, feed ramp was relieved, replaced the slide stop spring. Took it to the range and out of 70 rounds 50 would not feed, had to pull the slide about 1/4 inch and then it fed the next round. I noticed that a brand new follower was broken and 2 Lakeline followers were damaged. My LGS Sent it back to Kahr 8 days ago and got it back today. Kahr polished the barrel and feed ramp, lubed it and replace 3 followers. They kept my Lakelines. My LGS fired 3 mags of 165 grain hardball with no malfunctions. Will take it to the range this week to run some hollow points through it. Will follow up with a range report after testing 3 different types of hollow points. This is turning out to be the pistol from hell.


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[Texas48]

Range Report on my PM40. Fired about 100 rounds thru the gun this AM. Had intermittent failures to FTF with 4 different mags using 180gr Winchester Rangers, 180 Remington HTP, 155gr Hornady XTP's. 20 165 gr Gold Dots. All Gold Dots fed without problem. All mags went through without any battering from the feed ramp so that problem is finally fixed. I loaded the last 5 mags using all of the above ammunition, fired without a FTF. It seems that if I don't use 5+1 the gun runs fine. If I put one in the chamber on top of a full 5 round mag I was getting an FTF about the 2nd or 3rd round . Would only get 1 FTF per mag when using 5+1. No FTF's with just a 5 round mag tapping the mag before loading the weapon. Very accurate and pleasant to shoot all of the above rounds. I feel that now this gun is reliable for carry if I don't got the 5+1 route. Any in sights from others would be welcome.

[berettabone]

You may want to try and sand the inner lips of the top of the magazine. Also maybe try a stronger mag spring, and check to see that the mag springs are installed correctly. Just a couple of guesses..............................

[finpro]

I am not clear. Are you loading the PM40 from a mag or by dropping a round into the chamber without using a mag? (It is better to chamber a round from a mag with the slide locked and released using the slide release.) Are you then topping off the mag? For a carry gun with a 5 round mag, I would want to carry 5+1. If this does not go away, I recommend you install Lakeline followers in the mags that you will actually carry. My PM9, which was not really having much of a problem, was vastly improved by installation of Lakeline followers. Carry pistols should be as reliable as possible.

[Texas48]

I am not clear. Are you loading the PM40 from a mag or by dropping a round into the chamber without using a mag? (It is better to chamber a round from a mag with the slide locked and released using the slide release.) Are you then topping off the mag? For a carry gun with a 5 round mag, I would want to carry 5+1. If this does not go away, I recommend you install Lakeline followers in the mags that you will actually carry. My PM9, which was not really having much of a problem, was vastly improved by installation of Lakeline followers. Carry pistols should be as reliable as possible.

Loaded 1st one with the mag in as per Kahr recommendation, then take out mag and top off. New mags with about 50 thru each mag. Mag spring are in correctly and are new springs, new mags. May have to sand the lips. Runs fine with 5 rounds that one in the chamber plus 5 in the mag causing an issue. Think it's the mags not the weapon.


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[finpro]

Try slapping the mag after loading each of the last 3 rounds. Also, though some recommend against lubricating insides of mags, try some dry lube to see if it helps. If you feel comfortable doing it, I would load LIVE HP defensive cartridges from the mag by allowing the slide to move slowly forward to observe any hangups. If you do this, in addition to pointing in a safe direction, I recommend putting your trigger finger BEHIND the trigger to prevent an accidental discharge while loading. Done carefully, this is not a bad way to chamber a round into a Kahr, since their triggers do not move back as the slide is drawn back and you get a stronger grip. Do it outside, if possible, and use eye and ear protection. If you can find snap caps in the shape of hollow point ammo or reloaded HP ammo, without powder and primer, this would be be better. A defensive pistol must be reliable with HP defensive ammo.
Regarding sanding, I recently used a Dremel and a rubberized abrasive head to bevel upward the top front edge of a mag, where a round would hit if it nosedived while traveling forward. A little bit was enough to have the impact point on the mag more likely to lift the round. (This was on a new design of a 9 round, 9mm Wilson Combat mag.) If you do this, use a nail or punch to hold the follower down and out of the way by pushing it through the mag's lower witness holes. Also, depending on what you find while observing the round moving, you may see a need to bevel downward the rearmost edge of the feed ramp. For this, I recommend wrapping some fine emery paper around a dowel to contact only the rear lower edge of the feed ramp with good control. Leave the Dremel for things that are cheaper to replace if something goes wrong.
I read Kahr did not return your Lakeline followers, but I think they, like heavier mag springs, are worth trying. None of these things should be necessary, of course, but sometimes are, unfortunately. Small pistols often have more reliability problems due to shorter slide excursions and the PM40 is probably the smallest .40 pistol. Good luck.

[Texas48]

Try slapping the mag after loading each of the last 3 rounds. Also, though some recommend against lubricating insides of mags, try some dry lube to see if it helps. If you feel comfortable doing it, I would load LIVE HP defensive cartridges from the mag by allowing the slide to move slowly forward to observe any hangups. If you do this, in addition to pointing in a safe direction, I recommend putting your trigger finger BEHIND the trigger to prevent an accidental discharge while loading. Done carefully, this is not a bad way to chamber a round into a Kahr, since their triggers do not move back as the slide is drawn back and you get a stronger grip. Do it outside, if possible, and use eye and ear protection. If you can find snap caps in the shape of hollow point ammo or reloaded HP ammo, without powder and primer, this would be be better. A defensive pistol must be reliable with HP defensive ammo.
Regarding sanding, I recently used a Dremel and a rubberized abrasive head to bevel upward the top front edge of a mag, where a round would hit if it nosedived while traveling forward. A little bit was enough to have the impact point on the mag more likely to lift the round. (This was on a new design of a 9 round, 9mm Wilson Combat mag.) If you do this, use a nail or punch to hold the follower down and out of the way by pushing it through the mag's lower witness holes. Also, depending on what you find while observing the round moving, you may see a need to bevel downward the rearmost edge of the feed ramp. For this, I recommend wrapping some fine emery paper around a dowel to contact only the rear lower edge of the feed ramp with good control. Leave the Dremel for things that are cheaper to replace if something goes wrong.
I read Kahr did not return your Lakeline followers, but I think they, like heavier mag springs, are worth trying. None of these things should be necessary, of course, but sometimes are, unfortunately. Small pistols often have more reliability problems due to shorter slide excursions and the PM40 is probably the smallest .40 pistol. Good luck.

Finpro thanks for the suggestions. Kahrs are much more finicky than Glock's but once running right are much easier to carry and are great pocket carry weapons. My Cm9 has been flawless but prefer .40 as a carry. Heavy crimped 165 and 180 grain Bullets will be my carry choice in this weapon as opposed to my hotter 155 gr Hornadys. I can seat deeper with shorter COALS . All perfectly acceptable for SD in this weapon. I feel confident now with my PM40 but have to sacrifice 1 round. If required to use for close in situations the accuracy of this gun will fulfill intended function hopefully will not require the additional round. Intend to make your suggested mods to the mags and at my next range trip will verify the results. Thanks again.