unintentional double tap?

[Monadnock]

I was shooting yesterday..texted a friend to come on by. He showed up without his ears so we had to switch off using mine. While I was outside in the car, he was shooting my K40 for the first time and I heard him hit a double tap.

When I came in, he was counting holes in the target and looked concerned. He said the double-tap was unintentional, that he shot and the next shot 'went off by itself'. I was highly skeptical but didn't say so.. usually in these situations, it's a 404 User Error and not the gun, especially with people who don't shoot very often.

I tried for 50 rounds, limping, one handed, holding it in my mouth, using my tongue to pull the trigger, telekinesis..everything, but could not reproduce his magic-tap.

Funny thing, all the bullets he shot were on target that round so I think he was already back down on target and just not used to the butter trigger. He normally shoots an M&P 9mm.. so I'm thinking it was just him being askeerd of the .40 round and over anticipating.

Has anyone had or heard of an unintentional double tap??

[Monadnock]

Can someone move this thread to the right section? Also, I seem to have wanted to post it 2x. I am new to things the nature of obvious things..like seeing/ reading clearly posted section descriptions..

[gb6491]

I've never before heard of such an event with a Kahr pistol, but I'm loath to say it could never happen. However, I think it would take a "perfect storm" series of events for a mechanical double tap to occur in a Kahr pistol.
Beyond that (and as your friend said it did happen), I would at least give the pistol a detailed cleaning/inspection. That would most definitely include detail stripping the slide, paying particular attention to the striker channel and striker parts.
Regards,
Greg

[ripley16]

Has anyone had or heard of an unintentional double tap??

Unintentional double taps are more common in pistols with triggers that reset very quickly and have a very short pull after reset, such as the Walther PPQ. I've done it a few times with a PPQ and a HK mainly because I shoot from reset, but these guns reset in about 1/8" movement. Personally I don't think it's likely someone could get an unintentional double tap with a Kahr due to the long reset and pull. Kahrs are the slowest guns to shoot of any auto I've ever owned. Double tab I believe... it's the unintentional part I'd doubt.

[robistro]

possibly caused by the reset and trigger being different than what hes use to, and when the first shot went bang, the recoil caused his reflexes to pull the trigger unexpectedly for the 2nd shot. (if that made any sense) Noone could ever know what really happened, and we could speculate for days, but I doubt like ripley16 and gb6491 said, that it was an 'unintentional' double tap.

[kenemoore]

It is possible but very doubtful that there is any mechanical issue with the pistol. As others have mentioned, most likely an operator malfunction.

[berettabone]

:popcorn:

[Tilos]

I have a glock that did that, scary for sure, so fast it was hard to identify.
So I purposely held the trigger back and it would still do it:2eek:.
When I took it apart I found a burr on the trigger bar, stone it off, and it hasn't doubled since.

I never carried it after that, and it's now just a range gun :o
:)

[wyntrout]

I was shooting My P45 and my G30S yesterday at the range. I kept getting early shots as I tried to stage the Kahr P45 trigger. I finally just started smooth full strokes... or jerks. :D The P45 has the easiest pull of any of my Kahrs.

What I was getting at, is that trying to quickly stage the trigger gets me a "double" once in a while... surprising, but usually hits the cardboard, if not high on the letter-sized target. I actually had one that hit another hole in the bullseye from the preceding shot! :)

I was having lots of feed problems after a while and checked the screw holding the slide lock release spring. It keeps loosening... doesn't seem to be stripped, but I might have to try a little some non-red thread lock. I really tightened that thing as much as I dared... just to see if it was stripped, but it did seem to stop turning.

I shot some 230-grain Winchester Ranger T and the Underwood +P 230-grain Gold Dots. I had a new Lone Wolf ported barrel for the G30S to try out and it helped, but those +P Underwoods were still brutal. I had a Band-Aid on my trigger finger for the Glock and put a flight glove on because of the "pain" from the recoil. The P45 seemed to be easier to shoot than the Glock.

I got some videos and need to go through those for stills of flashes and recoil.

[Monadnock]

Good information. I don't think there's anything wrong with the gun. I just think it was lack of experience in shooting .40 and general nubness in shooting. I don't think he was trying to time the reset but more just didn't have a hold of it and then over compensated with grip to reacquire site. 300 rounds and no duplication so far..more ammo coming tomorrow ;D blew through it all faster than expected.

[bugs]

I would suspect your friend was not familiar with the Kahr trigger; over the weekend I shot a classifier with a Glock 19 after a yr. of trigger time on my CM9. during the weak hand string, I reflexivly staged the 19's trigger and had a "wild willi", close to a AD, which added 5 sec.(mike) to my time. sticking with the CM9 EXCLUSIVELY.

NRA LIFER

IDPA BELEIVER

[Monadnock]

I had similar troubles moving in between triggers on my HK45c and Glocks, then again with my new K40.. I decided recently I preferred my K40 trigger to the others, found an MK9 for a good price this week and mysteriously, my G30S found it's way to GunBroker, the HK and G26 found their way to a friends safe.. G27 may go this week.. hello new Karh all-steel Elite carry line up.

[Pacn45]

I know this thread is a little old but: how old is the pistol and approx how many rounds through it when this double happened? I'm not a gun smith but after Sparky (PM45) had about 1000 round fired I decided it was time to pull out the striker and do a detailed cleaning of the entire slide workings. When I pulled the striker out there was a surprising amount of brass flakes and a few brass shavings in the channel. Naturally there was powder soot and light coating of goo from the oil that finds its way in the channel. It was the shavings that surprised me the most. Question for the more learned members of the forum: is it possible that such debris could have been in his channel and stuck the striker in the firing position as the second round was chambered and caused a slam fire? I have seen such happen in SKS rifles and often the impact on the second round pushes the striker into the rear position and the weapon operates normally again.

Charlie

[RustyIron]

Has anyone had or heard of an unintentional double tap??

Of course. It happens to me on occasion as I push the limits of my skill. It's no big deal.

Any fool can shoot well slow. Sure, it's fun to put all your rounds into a tiny hole in the paper, but in itself, it proves nothing. Part of my training is to pick up the pace, shooting faster and faster as I put multiple rounds into a single target, or move target to target. Eventually accuracy degrades. Push the envelope far and fast enough, and sometimes I'll fire a shot sooner than I had intended: unintentional double tap. Train to the point of failure, and than you'll know exactly where that point is.

The benefit of forcing yourself to shoot faster than is comfortable goes beyond improving your accuracy at speed. You'll feel more calm and be able to find your sweet spot more quickly, and you won't feel pressure to increase your speed beyond where you can shoot accurately.