Which CW380? Tungsten, Night sights..Or........

[ceNex]

Hello!

Finally sold my S&W BG380. While I loved the form factor, I could not get used to the trigger.

In the market for a replacement 380. Down to the Taurus TCP and CW380.

I see the Kahr has different models. What is the difference between the Tungsten slide and the regular slide? Weight and performance wise? Are the sights any different ?

I see they make a regular model with night sights. Any opinions on this?

Any input would be appreciated!



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[SgtStone]

Can't help you directly with the CW380 but I researched heavily before purchasing a new Tungsten CM9 (9093TU3). The slide, trigger, & slide release are cerakoted w/ a tungsten finish. It does not add appreciable weight. After following the cleaning, lubrication, & break in directives my CM9 performs well & smoothly. The "3" in the part number refers to 3-dot sights, a style I like on other pistols that I own. After initial adjustment period, the CM9 is accurate & fun to shoot. I'm currently around 500 rounds fired w/ zero malfunctions on a variety of quality range and defense ammunition.

The "TU3" models for 2017 also come with an extended pinkie grip on the 6 round mag which, in 9mm, gives you the extended grip of the 7 round mag but less weight & slightly better concealment. I tend to carry the 7 round mag IWB and the 6 round when pocket carrying. Kahr included Pachymr rubber grips. I remove the grips to clean but put them back on to carry & shoot.

IMO the tungsten cerakote and 3-dot sights are worth the small premium over stock, while the mag extension & grips just add to the value.

In case you are interested, I chose the CM9 over the CW380 for 1) ammunition compatibility w/ my other 9MM's (I currently own no .380's), 2) general reliability of the 9mm over the smaller .380 based on research, 3) the ability of the CM9/PM9 to pocket carry w/ the correct holster, & 4) superior ballisitic performance & availability of 9mm over .380. I'm still interested in the smaller profile of the .380 but met my immediate needs w/ the CM9 w/o having to stock another ammunition caliber.

[CharlieR]

I have both the CW380 in Tungsten with 3-dot sights (TU3) as well as a P380 in black with night sights. They both shoot the same, both very accurate, and same smooth trigger pull. Night sights are available from Kahr for the CW380 as well for around $80.00. CW380's that are not the TU3 use a "Bar-Dot" sight.

Pics here http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?30108-New-CW380-TU3

Charlie

[MMyers1970]

I have to say night sights are not a bad idea. I've recently taken some defensive shooting classes and the instructor was not of the belief they are very useful, but I don't see how they can hurt. Now, the fiber optic sights really pop in the daylight, but I don't know if they're available for the CW380.

As for Cerakote? I'm not a fan. I like a nice stainless slide. I know Cerakote is durable and all, but nothing, to me, seems as attractive or durable as stainless. I know if I scratch it I can buff it out with no problem. I think the Cerakoted models and the carbon fiber print frame on the CW9 were a way for Kahr to introduce something new while they're getting the Gen 2s ready.

[ceNex]

Do the CW380s have last round hold open?

And. Gen 2 you say........

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[kenemoore]

Yes, the CW-380's hold open on last round, it was one thing that set it apart from the early Ruger and Keltec models. Plus, the recoil is easier too. (at least in my opinion)

[ceNex]

Yes, the CW-380's hold open on last round, it was one thing that set it apart from the early Ruger and Keltec models. Plus, the recoil is easier too. (at least in my opinion)
Good info.

Good time to buy a CW380? Especially if a Gen 2 is in the works?

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[Ed M]

I doubt you'll see a Gen 2 CW380 anytime soon, if ever.

Of all the handguns I own (too many), I'm almost ashamed to admit my CW380 is my favorite....

[MMyers1970]

I doubt you'll see a Gen 2 CW380 anytime soon, if ever.

Of all the handguns I own (too many), I'm almost ashamed to admit my CW380 is my favorite....

I'm beginning to think we won't see the Gen 2 anytime soon in any model. :-)

I carry my CW380 more than anything. I love that accurate little rascal.

[Alfonse]

Taurus is introducing a new .380, the Spectrum that should be shipping about now. http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2016/12/23/taurus-spectrum/

The TCP will be discontinued relatively soon I would expect. I am a fan of the CW380 but the Spectrum does look interesting. I have fondled one at SHOT. The trigger is nice but it only has the machined in sights like an LCP.

[ceNex]

Taurus is introducing a new .380, the Spectrum that should be shipping about now. http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2016/12/23/taurus-spectrum/

The TCP will be discontinued relatively soon I would expect. I am a fan of the CW380 but the Spectrum does look interesting. I have fondled one at SHOT. The trigger is nice but it only has the machined in sights like an LCP.
Yup. I am a regular on the Taurus boards. No word on when it'll actually hit the market.

Same trigger as the Kahr. But Taurus... And new.

Edit: have my LGS looking around for one to see what it would run.

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[robistro]

good move eliminating the BG 380, Had one myself, worst trigger ever and my front sight literally fell off the gun after about 2 magazines. Traded it for an LCP. I have the CM9 Cerokote, do not like the pinky extension on the magazine. I replaced it with the steel floorplates on all my magazines. much better. Also, I agree with the others, that mentioned go with the 9mm instead of the 380 unless you feel the need for a 380. The 9mm ammo is cheaper, plus its a better round overall. I believe the CM9 is about the same size as the 380 anyway? Just my 2c worth

[Ed M]

I believe the CM9 is about the same size as the 380 anyway?

Uhhhhh, no.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14645&stc=1

[dsk]

I have to say night sights are not a bad idea. I've recently taken some defensive shooting classes and the instructor was not of the belief they are very useful, but I don't see how they can hurt.

About 20 years ago I took part in a night shooting class, and I decided to take two handguns incorporating two separate lines of thought: a Glock 19 with Trijicon night sights and a plain-jane Colt Series 70 (tiny sights and all) along with a 2-D cell Maglite. When shooting the G19 I discovered that night sights are only useful within a fairly narrow spectrum of available light. If it gets too dark what happens is that your eyes are naturally drawn to those bright glowing dots, and you'll lose track of your target in the darkness. That's probably not a good thing if your target is the blurry shadow of a home intruder or a street thug you just chased into a dark warehouse. Nothing really beats a good light, and I found that the Colt Series 70 worked great even with its tiny "hump n' bump" GI sights as long as I lit up the target with the flashlight (I also found that a .45 round has less muzzle flash than a 9mm, but that's another subject). Since then I really haven't bothered to get night sights for my guns unless I already had another reason to upgrade (for example, replacing those gawd-awful plastic OEM Glock sights). With a tiny defense pistol like a .380 Kahr I can't imagine trying to engage an assailant in the dark much beyond arm's length, so I don't see where night sights are of much use. However night sights for a Kahr .380 do stand much higher than the factory non-tritiums, so that alone might make them worth the price of admission.

[ceNex]

About 20 years ago I took part in a night shooting class, and I decided to take two handguns incorporating two separate lines of thought: a Glock 19 with Trijicon night sights and a plain-jane Colt Series 70 (tiny sights and all) along with a 2-D cell Maglite. When shooting the G19 I discovered that night sights are only useful within a fairly narrow spectrum of available light. If it gets too dark what happens is that your eyes are naturally drawn to those bright glowing dots, and you'll lose track of your target in the darkness. That's probably not a good thing if your target is the blurry shadow of a home intruder or a street thug you just chased into a dark warehouse. Nothing really beats a good light, and I found that the Colt Series 70 worked great even with its tiny "hump n' bump" GI sights as long as I lit up the target with the flashlight (I also found that a .45 round has less muzzle flash than a 9mm, but that's another subject). Since then I really haven't bothered to get night sights for my guns unless I already had another reason to upgrade (for example, replacing those gawd-awful plastic OEM Glock sights). With a tiny defense pistol like a .380 Kahr I can't imagine trying to engage an assailant in the dark much beyond arm's length, so I don't see where night sights are of much use. However night sights for a Kahr .380 do stand much higher than the factory non-tritiums, so that alone might make them worth the price of admission.
Thanks! My exact thoughts on a small pocket pistol having night sights. Not exactly going to be using this to clear a house. This pistol is going to be my pocket pistol for when I go to Walmart once a week.....

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[berettabone]

I had a BG for about 5 minutes. Horrible trigger, lousy sights, couldn't hit anything over 10 ft. I agree with the others. I would go with a CM9 instead...........................................

[ceNex]

Stopped by the big city gunshop, while I was out there for work. Got to fondle the CW line. Feels good in the hand. 350 for the basic CW380. My preferred LGS could do this for 315 or so.

Night sights version not available.

Guess the Tungsten with 3 dot sights it is for 330. Which is a little more than I got out of my BG380. Should be here by the end of the week...

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[dustnchips]

I put the night sights on my 380. They help my day time shooting a great deal. I have never tried them at night. I have both a CW380 and PM9. The 9 is a fait amount bigger and 40 % heavier unloaded. I carry the 380 most of the time due to size nd weight.

[robistro]

if that grip on the 380 is any smaller than the 9, then I'd have no grip at all... The 380 Barrel is like 1/2" smaller, and its lighter, but I'll take the 9mm over the 380 any day. just my opinion. I like a 380, but to me nothing conceals better than the LCP.

[CharlieR]

I have night sights on my P380, as I agree they help in daytime shooting as well. My CW380TU3 has 3-dot sights that are not night sights but the exact same dimensions as the trijicons. They are just as easy to see.


I put the night sights on my 380. They help my day time shooting a great deal. I have never tried them at night. I have both a CW380 and PM9. The 9 is a fait amount bigger and 40 % heavier unloaded. I carry the 380 most of the time due to size nd weight.

[NotSoFastEddie]

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs - I have both a CW380 and a PM9 - the 380 pocket carries without printing, but at my size, I can't get away with pocket carrying the 9. Too heavy, and just enough larger to be obvious. I'd rather carry the 9, but just can't pull it off. Having said that, I love my CW380. It's accurate and reliable, which is all I can ask for in a concealed carry....

[ceNex]

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs - I have both a CW380 and a PM9 - the 380 pocket carries without printing, but at my size, I can't get away with pocket carrying the 9. Too heavy, and just enough larger to be obvious. I'd rather carry the 9, but just can't pull it off. Having said that, I love my CW380. It's accurate and reliable, which is all I can ask for in a concealed carry....
Am in the same height/weight category. My BG 380 used to conceal well.

Pretty sure the CW 380 will do a fine job. If I want something with more punch, the snubby in 38 special is the one I grab.......

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[dsk]

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs - I have both a CW380 and a PM9 - the 380 pocket carries without printing, but at my size, I can't get away with pocket carrying the 9. Too heavy, and just enough larger to be obvious. I'd rather carry the 9, but just can't pull it off. Having said that, I love my CW380. It's accurate and reliable, which is all I can ask for in a concealed carry....

I'm a little shorter and fatter than you, and I have the same problem. I can carry a full-sized 1911 during the winter with a coat, but in the warm weather months it has to be a .380. A 9mm, even a small one prints too much.

[berettabone]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't care if I print. The worst that's going to happen, and it has to many I'm sure, is someone will notice, and call the police. You'll be approached, and if everything goes as planned, you'll be on your way in minutes. I haven't been carrying nearly as long as some, but it's been 5+ years, and I have pocket carried 75% of the time, and OWB carried under a sweatshirt 22% of the time and open carried the other 3%. I have never had the police called on me, I've only had 2 people ever notice. One person saw it in my pocket and smiled. The other was a waitress, and she noticed when I was carrying under a sweatshirt. Same reaction, she smiled. Unless your in some state where it's illegal to print(is there such a state?) I wouldn't worry about it. The sheeple never notice anything........................:o

[ceNex]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/26e26c19e282294075e06d08ecc91205.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/054e0236d965633fcf08c36d532499cb.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/2a902475ef56fe2b40f3e7872ca4921d.jpg

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[dsk]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't care if I print. The worst that's going to happen, and it has to many I'm sure, is someone will notice, and call the police. You'll be approached, and if everything goes as planned, you'll be on your way in minutes. I haven't been carrying nearly as long as some, but it's been 5+ years, and I have pocket carried 75% of the time, and OWB carried under a sweatshirt 22% of the time and open carried the other 3%. I have never had the police called on me, I've only had 2 people ever notice. One person saw it in my pocket and smiled. The other was a waitress, and she noticed when I was carrying under a sweatshirt. Same reaction, she smiled. Unless your in some state where it's illegal to print(is there such a state?) I wouldn't worry about it. The sheeple never notice anything........................:o

John Q. Citizen isn't going to notice if you're printing. Assuming he isn't self-absorbed with his own cell phone and actually sees something making a pointy outline under your shirt he's going to assume it's a cell phone, tape measure, or some other everyday item. Only if you're careless enough to let the gun show is he going to notice, and even then I've seen plenty of people open carrying in stores where the people around them were completely zoned out and didn't notice. Strangers tend to completely ignore anyone who isn't otherwise in their way unless they're a pretty female. My biggest worry about printing is attracting the attention of a thug casing the store I'm in, looking for anyone who might be security or plainclothes police and who they know needs to be eliminated first.

[dsk]

BTW ceNex nice pistol. You might find that Pahmayr grip too squishy though. I bought one and hated the feel, like I was trying to hold onto a rubber toy snake. Instead I use a Hogue Mini-Handall, which is a little loose out of the box but fits better if you wrap some electrical tape around the grip first. Option C is to simply go with a Talon grip or something similar.

[ceNex]

BTW ceNex nice pistol. You might find that Pahmayr grip too squishy though. I bought one and hated the feel, like I was trying to hold onto a rubber toy snake. Instead I use a Hogue Mini-Handall, which is a little loose out of the box but fits better if you wrap some electrical tape around the grip first. Option C is to simply go with a Talon grip or something similar.
I was going to review the box and its contents. The grip will not work for me.

Prefer talon grip.

Also, why no flat plate for the mag?

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[ceNex]

One more question: where is the sticky on the break-in procedure? I cannot find that thread. I'll plan on being at the range next weekend....

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[Bawanna]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1521-Proper-prep-of-a-new-kahr

[dsk]

The short version:
1. Clean it thoroughly before use and oil it well.
2. Leave the slide locked back for a few days to set the recoil spring compression.
3. Use only round-nosed FMJ for the first couple hundred rounds, preferably US-made ammo like Federal, Remington, Blazer Brass, or else PMC. Winchester White Box is flat-nosed and might cause problems. Fiocchi ammo tends to have compatibility problems with the Kahr extractor, and in my experience the primers in Geco are too hard.
4. Cross your fingers, toes, or anything else you have more than one of and hit the range.

[ceNex]

Headed to the range with 42 rounds of Remington UMC ammo and the CW380.

Not a good outing. A good majority (90%) was failure to feed. I suspect this has to do with the ammo. Tried reversing the spring in the magazine with no luck. Will hit Walmart this week and pick up some blazer ammo.



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[ceNex]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/3f833eedc13ad20e5f63778f70df13c9.jpg

Also question: is there a right way for magazine spring to go in?

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[markallen]

Length
Kahr 4.96"
TCP 5.2"
Kahr wins pocket concealment

Sites
Kahr has excellent sites
TCP is more flush

NS
I paid $30 extra for night sites. Go ahead and get them now. You won't regret it.

Also, have talon grips on my CM9 and CW380. Get the rubberized, not sandpaper. I think it cost in the $20s.

Ammunition
I cannot say anything about TCP, but the CW380 is very picky. That being said, you can ask the group here what works and what doesn't. I shoot Blazer fmj for target without a hiccup. I have yet to test my defensive ammo. I think there are positive comments on UMC.

+1 for Uncle Mike's holsters








Hello!

Finally sold my S&W BG380. While I loved the form factor, I could not get used to the trigger.

In the market for a replacement 380. Down to the Taurus TCP and CW380.

I see the Kahr has different models. What is the difference between the Tungsten slide and the regular slide? Weight and performance wise? Are the sights any different ?

I see they make a regular model with night sights. Any opinions on this?

Any input would be appreciated!



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[dsk]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170404/3f833eedc13ad20e5f63778f70df13c9.jpg

Also question: is there a right way for magazine spring to go in?

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The cartridge is making it up the feed ramp and into the chamber, but it looks to me like it's not slipping underneath the extractor.

Sent from my dilapidated old PC.

[ceNex]

The cartridge is making it up the feed ramp and into the chamber, but it looks to me like it's not slipping underneath the extractor.

Sent from my dilapidated old PC.
That is exactly it. Found a bunch of perfecta ammo laying around. Tried loading a round... Not slipping under the extractor. The fix is.......???

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[Ed M]

Besides the obvious fix of not using Perfecta, this should do it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwrBbUQze2k&t=8s

[ceNex]

Besides the obvious fix of not using Perfecta, this should do it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwrBbUQze2k&t=8s
Actually my range trip was with Remington. I assumed it was the ammo, but had same issues when I came home and tried to chamber the Perfecta ammo.

Thanks for the video. I'll try this..

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[dsk]

There are other similar techniques for increasing the amount of clearance between the extractor and breechface, including the thread stickied at the top of this section (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26232-Found-solution-to-FTF-and-failure-to-return-to-battery-on-CW-380).

Apparently as Kahr owners it's our job to fix the design flaws in their gun in order to make them work. I guess it's too hard for Kahr to redesign the parts to eliminate jams and premature breakage.

[RolandD]

There are other similar techniques for increasing the amount of clearance between the extractor and breechface, including the thread stickied at the top of this section (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26232-Found-solution-to-FTF-and-failure-to-return-to-battery-on-CW-380).

Apparently as Kahr owners it's our job to fix the design flaws in their gun in order to make them work. I guess it's too hard for Kahr to redesign the parts to eliminate jams and premature breakage.

It has more to do with a few ammo manufacturers not making their cases to SAAMI specs.

[ceNex]

I had emailed Kahr at the same time as my post here.

They asked me to create a RMA, for repairs. Off she goes.....

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[dsk]

It has more to do with a few ammo manufacturers not making their cases to SAAMI specs.

Are you sure these manufacturers aren't still within SAAMI specs? Fiocchi is a good brand. Also there are plenty of other .380 pistols on the market that eat pretty much anything. The Kahrs are way too fussy regarding what works in them and what doesn't. I can understand one or two brands not working well, but when it's the other way around and only a few brands work reliably I'd blame the pistol.

[ceNex]

Received pistola back from Kahr in less than 5 days. Shipping on their dime.

New extractor and slide stop. Lubed and test fired. Headed straight to the range as missus was at work.

50 rounds of Remington white box. One failure to feed. Last round of the second magazine. Outside of that .. flawless. One handed, weak handed. No problems.

Tried a magazine of Perfecta - and that was a disaster. All failure to feeds. No thanks.

Question: now that stuff has been replaced, does that reset my break-in count? Or do I keep counting from where I left off before the factory outing?

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[dsk]

The 200 round break-in is just an estimate. Don't worry about the actual round count; when the pistol stops having issues then you know you're good to go. My P380 had a break-in period of several thousand rounds and numerous replaced/modified parts before it became reliable.

[1stnamebassist]

My CT380 would not feed Geco at all. It was getting hung up under the extractor. Luckily I had some Aquilla ammo that worked flawlessy with me that first time out. I did the extractor fix I found on the forum but I haven't come across any Geco ammo to try again to see if it made a difference. But I have tried several other brands of ammo including Hornady Custom and Federal Hydro Shok with no issues.

[dsk]

Geco always fed fine in mine, but it wouldn't always go bang as it has hard primers. Since fixing my pistol I too have been looking for some to try out again but I haven't found it locally.

[ceNex]

Went out to the range again as I found some Fiocchi 95 gr stuff at local fleet store. No go.

Switched to Remington and not a problem. 4 magazines.

I tried JHP stuff: Federal Hydrashok 90 gr. Could not even feed.

138 rounds so far. Really likes the Remington stuff.

What JHP ammo does your CW 380 like for SD?

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[Ed M]

My CW380 has worked flawlessly with every self defense ammo I've used in it.

Winchester Kinetic HE
Winchester PDX1
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics JHP
Fiocchi Extrema
Federal HST
Speer Gold Dots
Hornady Critical Defense
Underwood Xtreme Defender +P (my preferred SD ammo)

Most people seem to have good results with the Critical Defense rounds feeding well in their Kahr 380s

[SgtStone]

Happy to read the original poster got his pistol & then got it fixed, at least for some .380 ammunition makers.

A further word about the extension on the 6 round magazine. Since purchasing two flat bottom 6 rounders, I've taken the extended mag out of rotation. I'm used to shooting small autos so don't really need the extension w/o benefit of an additional round. I front pocket carry the CM9 in an Elite holster w/ a 6 round mag w/ a spare 7 rounder in a mag pouch in a rear pocket. Once a month or after a range trip I exchange the active mags w/ the spares.

[ceNex]

Found some Polycase RNP and ARX ammo that I has stashed away. I checked to see if these would feed in my 380 and seems like no problem feeding. Will go to the range and see if it cycles when actually fired....



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[ceNex]

Out to the range after work..

36 rounds. 18 of those were RNP Polycase Ammo. 6 of the ARX. And another 12 of Remington UMC.

No jams. No failures.

165 rounds.

Ready for CC I think.

Top left is the ARX at some SD distances.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170428/66e105f43600f8058d4e103b0b18511e.jpg

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[dsk]

You've only got 165 rounds total through your Kahr? Honestly I believe you need to make sure your pistol will easily sail through at least 100 rounds of ammo without a failure in a single range session before you begin trusting your life to it. Conventional wisdom is 200 rounds minimum, but with a Kahr .380 that's sort of pushing it. These guns not only get dirty real fast but they absolutely don't like it when they are.

[dustnchips]

The 200 round mark is a good idea, but there really is no need to put 100 rounds through at a time unless you carry 100 rounds. I only shoot 50 rounds at a time and really wouldn't care if the gun failed after 30 rounds. I'll never carry that many and I clean my gun after every range trip and check it often for cleanliness and lube since I pocket carry. I don't shoot at 50 yard targets with it either.

[ceNex]

The 200 round mark is a good idea, but there really is no need to put 100 rounds through at a time unless you carry 100 rounds. I only shoot 50 rounds at a time and really wouldn't care if the gun failed after 30 rounds. I'll never carry that many and I clean my gun after every range trip and check it often for cleanliness and lube since I pocket carry. I don't shoot at 50 yard targets with it either.
My thoughts exactly. I am happy for now with the way the Kahr is performing. I will return to the range once I purchase a spare mag. In a SD situation, more than likely, if 6 rounds don't get it done...

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[ceNex]

Update. Purchased a spare mag with flat base plate. Of course had to go try it and put some rounds through the pistol.

Local store has Civil Liberty 380 self defense ammo on sale. Picked up 2 boxes of 20.

Range session ended up being 56 rounds - a mix of Remington 95 gr FMJ to Polycase ammo to the Civil Liberty stuff. The SD ammo fed great and no problem. Had one Failure to feed on the last round with old magazine. I limp wristed when trying to shoot one handed....

So far so good. Love the Kahr. Best pocket pistol I've tried and purchased.

Also.. talon grips is having a 4th of July sale. 4 bucks off... And that's when I'll be buying grips for my CW!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170607/a6a8cb4d9b0315554466128da708ed40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170607/264adb0ef4e1d689f32da63d1ae1425f.jpg

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