MK9 v. MK40 <> (?)

[Monadnock]

I read through pages, searched for info, surprised that I didn't find much information in a specific post about the differences in shooting between the MK40 and MK9.

Can someone tell me about the recoil, handling, 2nd.. shot comparison, any differences between the two guns??

- The only real downside on the 40 I can think of is round count but I've only shot the K40 so I have little for a direct comparison in regards to recoil differences.

- My only frame of reference in a gun this size is the comparison between my Glock 26, that I recently converted to a 27 40 S&W- which is a approx 2 oz. lighter than an MK.

- I carry Underwood Extreme Defense rounds- there's somewhat significant loss between the calibers in muzzle energy (102 fp) see below.

- The recoil of this Underwood round is noticeably lighter because it's a smaller projectile, so the difference between shooting a standard HST 9mm and an Underwood .40 are less dramatic than a typical .40 S&W round.

Info from webs:
Underwood Extreme Defender- Technical Information:



Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Weight: 115 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Brass

Ballistics Information:



Muzzle Velocity:1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 500 ft. lbs.
Penetration:17 3/4 inches

Underwood Extreme Defender- Technical Information:



Caliber: 9mm Luger
Bullet Weight: 90 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information:



Muzzle Velocity:1400 fps

Muzzle Energy: 392 ft. lbs.
Penetration: 15 in.

[O'Dell]

I've never shot an MK9 but my MK40 is no problem at all. In fact, short barrel or no, it's one of my most accurate pistols, and that includes SIG's, HK's, 1911's, and of course, three other Kahrs.

[Barth]

I've never shot an MK9 but my MK40 is no problem at all. In fact, short barrel or no, it's one of my most accurate pistols, and that includes SIG's, HK's, 1911's, and of course, three other Kahrs.


+1
My only Kahr is a MK40 Elite.
It's very accurate and soft shooting.

[CPTKILLER]

I'm good with my MK9.

[Bawanna]

I have a K40, if I was able to get an MK I'd go 9. I'm not a 9 guy either. I would like to find an old MK one of these days. I borrow another fella's when I need to make a grip and seems I have it more than he does.

I'm surprised at the soft / easy shooting comments myself.

I had my K40 magnaported and it's still a fire breathing dragon. I'm good with 40's in full size guns but compacts not so much.
I'm not sure its so much recoil as just muzzle flip, requiring too long to get back on target for a second round.

[finpro]

I owned both an MK40, my first Kahr, and an MK9 and now own neither. I found it impossible to fire the MK40 both fast and accurately, due to its snappy muzzle rise, especially with the shorter magazine. While accurate in slow fire, it did not exactly encourage much practice. My MK9 allowed faster shooting and I recommend it over the MK40. In defensive pistols of that size, for fast shooting, I do not see a benefit of anything snappier than modern standard velocity 9mm defensive ammo. FWIW, my MK9 was somewhat smaller and lighter than my MK40 and felt better in my hand. Still, the MK9 was too heavy and awkward to pocket carry and, so, required a belt holster. I replaced it with a K9 Elite which shoots more accurately and faster, has better balance and carries better in a belt holster. If you can, try both a K9 and an MK9. For pocket carry, I recommend a lighter and narrower pistol like a PM9 or CM9.

[Bawanna]

That's strange I thought the grip on the MK9 and MK40 were interchangeable. Seems like I made some on my borrowed MK9 and sent them to a guy with a MK40. Maybe my cheese slipped off it's ******* and I'm not remembering right. Ain't that strange we can't say Ritz _______ . PC police enroute.

I'd like to shoot a PM40 once or maybe twice. So much lighter than an MK or a K. Unless the Tupperware soaks up some of the flip it must be a real cannon.

It also could be that I'm getting high mileage and not as immune to recoil as I was in my youth. I used to dig building hot loads for my Ruger Super Blackhawk, have a 30-30 Contender I still enjoy immensely. The 44 hasn't been out for a very long time.
I guess in my youth recoil was Manly! Hunted deer sometimes with a 375 H&H. Course there was bears around but that was little excuse for such a big rifle.

[finpro]

We are both right, I think. My MKs were early 2000s "old" versions, but the Kahr website currently shows .40s weighing 1 ounce more than the 9mm versions in the MKs and Ks. Old Kahr product info said the .40 slides had to be more robust and heavier to accommodate the extra power of that round. (The .40 S&Ws were routinely loaded to what would normally be considered +P pressures, which is why they were not marketed as "+P". They are considerably more snappy than standard pressure 9mms and much more comparable to +P 9mms.) Most of the weight difference was in the slides, so the frames would likely be be almost identical, especially in the grip area, by design. This is why you can use the same grips on both .40s and 9mms. Extra .40 slide weight is also found in the polymer pistols as well, with P and PM pistols weighing about 1.9 ounces more in .40 than 9mm. This about double the weight differences of the steel Kahrs.

Years ago, when I was researching SIG P239s, their .40 and 357 SIG versions were an ounce or two heavier than the 9mm versions. Unfortunately, I bought a .40 version and regretted it until I replaced the barrel with a Bar-Sto 9mm conversion unit, but it is still heavier than a P239 born as a 9mm.

[O'Dell]

I have a K40, if I was able to get an MK I'd go 9. I'm not a 9 guy either. I would like to find an old MK one of these days. I borrow another fella's when I need to make a grip and seems I have it more than he does.

I'm surprised at the soft / easy shooting comments myself.

I had my K40 magnaported and it's still a fire breathing dragon. I'm good with 40's in full size guns but compacts not so much.
I'm not sure its so much recoil as just muzzle flip, requiring too long to get back on target for a second round.

I appreciate your concern, Bawanna. My MK40 is a very small pistol, indeed only my LCP is smaller among my hand guns. However, we know that recoil is more related to weight than size, and for its size, the all steel MK40 is quite heavy. It weighs 6 ozs more than my CW45 or CM45, and about the same as my full size SIG P220 and Kimber Ultra Carry 1911, and those are both 45's. I think the extra weight damps a great deal of the recoil and makes the pistol easier to shoot.

[berettabone]

In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40. I don't find the recoil much different than 9mm. With the Kahr triggers, you're not going to be doing double taps any time soon. This crud about not being able to get back on target fast enough is a wheel barrel full of baloney. You'll have plenty of time to get back on target, especially with that trigger.:)

[Monadnock]

Good info guys but it seems I'm still on the fence.. I shot some Underwood .40 the other day with HST in the same mag. It was day and night, the difference between them but still I think it might even be more dramatic with the 9mm and even more worthwhile with the extra bu-lets capacity..

I agree about just getting the K9 but I'm really looking for a swap out for a Baby Glock.. With the right stiff leather pocket carry holster, I think an MK can be carried easily.. I pocket my G27 and it's just a little lighter, both are perfect for waist.

[finpro]

In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40. I don't find the recoil much different than 9mm. With the Kahr triggers, you're not going to be doing double taps any time soon. This crud about not being able to get back on target fast enough is a wheel barrel full of baloney. You'll have plenty of time to get back on target, especially with that trigger.:)

Re: "In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40." That is true, unless you miss or have a poor hit or unless the hit is insufficient for any reason or unless there are more than a single attacker or whatever... Increasingly the modern belief is that a modern defensive 9mm is essentially as effective as a .40. Even in larger, heavier service pistols, police departments find better marksmanship scores with 9mms. You are right that Kahrs are, by design, not super fast shooters, but 9mms can be shot faster than comparable .40s, especially in Kahr-sized pistols. With practice, Kahrs can be shot with reasonably speed, certainly as fast as a revolver. I think for any defensive application, there it an optimal setup for each individual. Regarding the 9mm vs. .40, in smaller, lighter pistols, especially those too small to accommodate a four finger grip, I think this mostly favors a 9mm, as long as quality defensive ammunition is used.

[Bawanna]

About 80% of the conversation lately is about 380's. Give me the 9 over the 40 in a compact Kahr any day.

That is if I ever decide to give up my 45 which I don't anticipate any time in the remainder of my life time or the next 2 or 3 lifetimes.

It's a vicious circle these caliber wars. I spent years getting the department issued 45's. Now the talk is this better accuracy and more capacity with a 9. Now the optical sights and MOS Glocks are quite the topic.
Of course in usual fashion, none of the new toys are available for anything but 9's. I sense completing the circle and having a bunch of mouse guns back in officer holsters. No matter really, they frown on them shooting folks and never shot anybody anyhow so maybe they are onto something.

I also see 9mm sub guns (MP5's) are back in vogue. Glad they didn't trade off the two we got, when it's popular again they'll want to have them on hand.

I think I'm allergic to meaningless trends. Do you think I need an evaluation?

[yqtszhj]

I think I'm allergic to meaningless trends. Do you think I need an evaluation?

I can totally relate to that. Popular opinion sends me running the oposite direction because it changes like the wind.

I figure carry what I shoot good and shoot good what I carry. Everything else is for range fun or backup.

That being said I want a CZ Scorpion with a stock (think SBR) but don't want to deal with the form 1 and everything that goes with it. When are they going to repeal the NFA??? Not holding my breath.

[berettabone]

Call me crazy, but I'll take .40 or .45 over any other caliber, as a first choice. I don't shoot .40 out of my Kahr. I shoot .40 out of firearms that I believe handle the caliber much more fluidly. But I would never dissuade anyone from shooting .40 out of a Kahr, it's not anything that's not handle able. Crazier things have happened.:D

[finpro]

This is perfectly sensible for ballistic performance prior to the last decade or so, or if modern defensive ammunition cannot be used. FMJ and older hollow point 9mm ammo did not do as well in fast incapacitation compared to larger calibers. Defensive ammo design improvements make this considerably less significant now. I think everyone agrees on this basic fact, though it may not sway their opinion of what to carry. Also, I would not disagree as much if discussing heavier and larger pistols or use against dangerous animals. This discussion is about smallish Kahrs, with short grips, for defense against human aggression. Civilian defensive shootings are usually at close range, with 2 to 4 rounds fired very quickly. This suggests speed, accuracy and shot placement are more likely to be decisive than smallish ballistic advantages. This is the increasing consensus of experts, most obviously in the FBI, which basically invented the .40 S&W to improve on 9mm performance three decades ago. Now, in their infinite wisdom, the G-Men are returning to 9mms. They found the larger caliber advantages to have shrunk in pistols of the size they want to issue, which are larger than Kahrs.
I am happy we mostly have the freedom to shoot what we prefer. Stay safe and good luck with whatever you choose. Yea USA!

[Bawanna]

Actually the FBI invented the 10mm only to find that guns of the era couldn't hold up to it and most agents couldn't handle it either. So it was de-tuned and called a 40.

[finpro]

You are absolutely right! The 10mm came first. As you mentioned, it was too hot for many agents and guns to handle and, due to its .45 ACP cartridge length, the pistols were larger than was comfortable for many agents, especially women, to carry concealed. After de-tuning their 10mm ammo to .40 S&W levels, they decided it would be better to just go with a shorter, 9mm length round and specify smaller pistols.

[Monadnock]

I do like my K40. Just shot 100 rounds today at lunch. I did some up close, fast fire drills, emptying a few mags into an envelope- the ones the credit card applications came in. At 15 feet I was able to rapid fire, as fast as I could get the gun back on target and was pleased with the results. 7 rounds, 7 holes but I think it would be a different result in the MK40, at least until I got used to it..I'd like to be all on one caliber but got such a good deal on the K40e, 5 mags, 2 holsters, that I bought it, in part maybe to keep my other .40 company, when in truth I was looking more for a K9. Now I have the K40 and really really really like it, I'm conflicted. Such are the troubles of modern life. We should all be so lucky.

[finpro]

Enjoy your K40. Though I do not like .40 S&W pistols generally, I have always had some interest in a K40, though I have never fired one. The K40's full grip, low bore axis and reasonable weight make it as small a pistol as I would ever like have in .40. In my experience, steel Kahrs shoot better than polymer Kahrs, though my polymer Kahrs are much older than my K9, so this comparison may no longer be valid. Polymer Kahrs carry better, however.

[Monadnock]

Meh, I have a fat seatbelt, double layer belt from BlueAlphaGear..so it holds any weight gun. the K40 is the lightest .40 recoil I've felt. Between the K9 and 40, I'd still carry the .40 but maybe 9 in MK, idk.

[berettabone]

[QUOTE=finpro;385099]Re: "In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40." That is true, unless you miss or have a poor hit or unless the hit is insufficient for any reason or unless there are more than a single attacker or whatever... Increasingly the modern belief is that a modern defensive 9mm is essentially as effective as a .40. Even in larger, heavier service pistols, police departments find better marksmanship scores with 9mms. You are right that Kahrs are, by design, not super fast shooters, but 9mms can be shot faster than comparable .40s, especially in Kahr-sized pistols. With practice, Kahrs can be shot with reasonably speed, certainly as fast as a revolver. I think for any defensive application, there it an optimal setup for each individual. Regarding the 9mm vs. .40, in smaller, lighter pistols, especially those too small to accommodate a four finger grip, I think this mostly favors a 9mm, as long as quality defensive ammunition is used.[/QUOTE:) I practice and shoot .40 cal. for that reason. In case more than one shot needs to be fired. I have total confidence in my abilities to make the rounds go where they need to. Someone who doesn't have the confidence in their skills to shoot .40 cal. should leave it alone. I don't "target" practice any more. I shoot to hone defensive skills mostly. Center mass and head shots. Your comments about LE do not surprise me. Most of them don't shoot nearly enough, 3/4's of them couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, and most only practice so they can pass qualification every year. Having the same trigger, I don't see why there would be a difference in the speed of shooting between 9mm and .40. Same trigger, same speed. I don't get in to caliber wars, but a .40 or .45 makes a larger hole than 9mm, just a fact. Also, does a bit more damage to bones, etc. I shoot 9mm out of my MK because intelligence tells me that the firearm is too small for .40. People who own MK 40's would probably disagree. I would think that the K40 would be right up there with others as a damn good gun to shoot .40 out of. I choose to shoot .40 out of the M&P line and the HK line. Both handle the caliber very well. I have never had the opportunity to fire a K40, but would sure like to as a comparison. The reason I mention only firing once, is that the odds say that this is probably all you'll have to fire. Has nothing to do with caliber. I feel certain, that with my practice, whether it be 9mm or .40 cal., on a human torso, I will hit the torso somewhere with EVERY shot, and that's good enough for me. I prefer bigger holes.

[Monadnock]

K40 is my favorite gun right now.. My poly framed guns are looking around nervously, wondering who's going on GunBroker next. Truth is, probably all of them are, minus the P380. I'm trying to make shelf space for when Kahr announces the all steel KM380 elite next month.

[Ed M]

I'm trying to make shelf space for when Kahr announces the all steel KM380 elite next month.


That would be sweet.....

[CPTKILLER]

Read the police comments on shoots. Never ever assume that a single shot is adequate regardless of caliber. Keep firing regardless of caliber until the threat is disabled.

https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2012/02/shots-fired-skokie-illinois-08-25-2008.aspx

These were with a .45 ACP and the criminal stayed in action after multiple hit. Same event from two police perspectives. This officer now carries a 9mm with much more ammunition.

Magazine capacity remains a limitation for all Kahrs.

[Estropelic]

I wasn't shooting 40 Cal at the range anymore and decided I should let them go. I had two Glocks in 40 "27 and35." I bought a mk9 elite and couldn't be happier.

[Miller]

Hello, first time poster here - do not currently own either MK but used to own MK40 and am looking to horse trade it back (the same one). I went to the MK40 from a G27 and felt/perceived recoil with the same loads is far less in the Kahr, with better ergos and much easier to carry. I sold it when my wrists were declining due to osteoarthtitis. Surgery has since fixed that, would like to get back to shooting larger caliber after shooting .380 for a number of years.

Was able to shoot very rapidly and accurately with two hands - put 5 rounds on a silhouette at 4 yards all upper torso before the first brass hit the concrete. One hand shooting is a lot more challenging though - that's when it starts to behave more like a revolver. I never got very used to using my MK40 with slow target fire, but that was all me - it certainly has plenty of potential for accuracy - solid lock up and clean machining that so many firearms lack..

I'd assume the MK9 would be even more of a pussycat.

Honestly when you see how poorly many people control their micro polymer handguns rapid fire (especially one-handed if that is even attempted) I have to wonder when common sense kicks in and they realize they need a heavier gun, smaller caliber, or a lot more range time.

[boscobarbell]

Hello, first time poster here - do not currently own either MK but used to own MK40 and am looking to horse trade it back (the same one). I went to the MK40 from a G27 and felt/perceived recoil with the same loads is far less in the Kahr, with better ergos and much easier to carry. .

When I first bought my MK9, I took it to the range and fired it along with the range's rental Glock G43. I'm a Glock guy, but the MK9 was a much, much better shooter...less punishing, less muzzle flip, and consequently quicker on target. I shoot hot +P loads, too, but could shoot the Kahr all day long.

I have a Glock 27 as my bad neighborhood carry weapon and home defense pistol. It is the most accurate 40 I have ever shot (and I carried a Sig 226 for decades), so I'm intrigued that the MK40 might be even better. Sigh.....

[Miller]

When I first bought my MK9, I took it to the range and fired it along with the range's rental Glock G43. I'm a Glock guy, but the MK9 was a much, much better shooter...less punishing, less muzzle flip, and consequently quicker on target. I shoot hot +P loads, too, but could shoot the Kahr all day long.

I have a Glock 27 as my bad neighborhood carry weapon and home defense pistol. It is the most accurate 40 I have ever shot (and I carried a Sig 226 for decades), so I'm intrigued that the MK40 might be even better. Sigh.....

I actually traded my G27 for the MK40. G27 had the trigger guard smoothed and a second barrel (Wolf). TheMK40 was used, initially had issues with the slide locking back as the slide stop intruded too far into the chamber area and rounds coming out of the mag sometimes locked it open. I called and was sent a replacement part and in the meantime I filed down the offending bit of steel. After that it ran great, very accurate. Recoil was notably less than the G27 with the same loads and carry overall is night and day.

They are heavy little chunkers but I find it much easier to carry a small heavy gun than a larger lighter one. In reality the MK40 weighs about the same as a Walther PPK.

[Barth]

I actually traded my G27 for the MK40. G27 had the trigger guard smoothed and a second barrel (Wolf). TheMK40 was used, initially had issues with the slide locking back as the slide stop intruded too far into the chamber area and rounds coming out of the mag sometimes locked it open. I called and was sent a replacement part and in the meantime I filed down the offending bit of steel. After that it ran great, very accurate. Recoil was notably less than the G27 with the same loads and carry overall is night and day.

They are heavy little chunkers but I find it much easier to carry a small heavy gun than a larger lighter one. In reality the MK40 weighs about the same as a Walther PPK.

Still have my G27, but never carry it.
It's mostly reliable, but not enough to carry.
My MK40 Elite still gets in the rotation when I need absolute concealment.
Too heavy for pocket carry.
But totally disappears on a belt.
Plus I can run the Kahr on my ankle if I want to.

In my hands the Kahr is softer shooting,
more accurate and most importantly more reliable than my G27.
I carry it with confidence :cool:

[boscobarbell]

Still have my G27, but never carry it.
It's mostly reliable, but not enough to carry.
:cool:

Have you told Glock about this? I have never spoken to anyone who went to Glock CS and didn't come away with a perfectly functioning pistol. (I wish I could say the same for other manufacturers...hint, hint :) )

I won't argue with your regarding the merits of the MK40, however...my MK9, as stated above, is beyond reproach, and it's starting to sound like I'll need to add an MK40 to my collection soon.

[Barth]

Have you told Glock about this? I have never spoken to anyone who went to Glock CS and didn't come away with a perfectly functioning pistol. (I wish I could say the same for other manufacturers...hint, hint :) )

I won't argue with your regarding the merits of the MK40, however...my MK9, as stated above, is beyond reproach, and it's starting to sound like I'll need to add an MK40 to my collection soon.

One or two FTFs in 200 rounds?
Don't think Glock will be able to do anything about that.
Plus occasional brass to face :mad:
It just doesn't misbehave enough to send it back to the mothership.
If I want to carry a tupperware double stack 40 cal subcompact?
Hk P2000SK LEM gets the call :cool:

[boscobarbell]

One or two FTFs in 200 rounds?
Don't think Glock will be able to do anything about that.
Plus occasional brass to face :mad:
It just doesn't misbehave enough to send it back to the mothership.
If I want to carry a tupperware double stack 40 cal subcompact?
Hk P2000SK LEM gets the call :cool:

Ahhh...okay. So not 100% reliable, but not lemon enough to get it looked at. Yeah, that's a tough spot to be in. Have you played around with ammo choices? I've heard that Glock CS will often recommend Hornady Critical Defense for feeding issues...and we Kahr owners know that it is well-known to feed well in the .380 and little 9mms.

And I can't really disagree with you about the H&K. I've had an itch for one for a long, long time, and only decided on the Glock because I wanted a carbine that would share magazines with my home defense pistol. Ended up with the Glock 27 and a KT Sub 2000. Very pleased with my decision, but I've still got that H&K itch to scratch.

[Barth]

Ahhh...okay. So not 100% reliable, but not lemon enough to get it looked at. Yeah, that's a tough spot to be in. Have you played around with ammo choices? I've heard that Glock CS will often recommend Hornady Critical Defense for feeding issues...and we Kahr owners know that it is well-known to feed well in the .380 and little 9mms.

And I can't really disagree with you about the H&K. I've had an itch for one for a long, long time, and only decided on the Glock because I wanted a carbine that would share magazines with my home defense pistol. Ended up with the Glock 27 and a KT Sub 2000. Very pleased with my decision, but I've still got that H&K itch to scratch.

The G27 occasionally FTFs with ball ammo :rolleyes:
It's just a range gun for me.

My pistol caliber carbine is a Hk SP5K with a folding brace :cool:

[boscobarbell]

The G27 occasionally FTFs with ball ammo :rolleyes:
It's just a range gun for me.

My pistol caliber carbine is a Hk SP5K with a folding brace :cool:

I looked at that one, but found two problems: 1) I couldn't find confirmation that it accepted H&K pistol magazines, and 2) There was no way I could hide a purchase of that size from my wife. The Sub2000 cost me $330 delivered, not much more than the cost of a month of boutique coffees.

And I've gotta add that you are the ONLY person I know who has a Glock that isn't 100% functional. Thinking it over, I wouldn't care if I got failures at a rate of 1 in a thousand. I'd send it back to Glock and let them figure it out. Glocks are ugly, have triggers that many shooters hate, a grip angle that is odd for some, etc etc etc...but they are known to shoot, regardless of conditions. They freeze them, dunk them in mud, and shoot them for 18K round...without experiencing a single malfunction like yours. My G27 cycled many hundreds of rounds straight out of the box, without a cleaning or oiling. I finally decided to give it some TLC and clean it after about 500 drama-free rounds, mostly because I was cleaning some other pistols anyway.

Same with my G42. Picked it up at my LGS, walked out to their range and put several hundred rounds through it...a single FTE at about round 10, and then about 300 rounds without a failure until my range time ran out. Again, uncleaned, not oiled. This, in comparison to my Kahr 380, which required meticulous break-in, different mag followers, range sessions less than 100 rounds, specific ammo choices, etc etc...and still ended up back at Kahr for the same stuff you read about here time and again...FTF, light strikes, you name it. And this isn't to pick on Kahr. I had a Taurus TCP, 2 Ruger LCP IIs, a previous CW380, none of which were ever 100% for me. My Beretta Pico is a rock-solid 100% now, but it took two trips back to Beretta to get it right. Bottom line: I should have stuck with Glock at the beginning of my quest for the perfect 380 pistol.

Bottom line: IMHO, send your Glock back. Why should everyone else get to own an engineering marvel when you have to put up with an occasional failure? Like I said, let them figure it out.

[Bawanna]

The Glock is simple enough I'd try replacing stuff. Extractor, striker safety and spring etc.
Problem is if it only acts up once in a couple hundred it will take alot of shooting to determine if you really got it.

We had an officer who couldn't get through a mag without an issue. Instructors brought it to me and told me to replace everything.
I refused since I would never know which part was causing the issue. We'll do one piece at a time.

Turns out there was nothing wrong with the gun. I went to the range myself and there were several others there. I shot it fast, slow, I purposely limp wristed it, shot weak handed, I even shot the thing upside down and it never failed.
I gave it to the guys up there and said everybody shoot this thing, no failures.

Turns out it was him. I don't know now what they did to change his grip but he's had now issues since.
Still a mystery to me.

I agree they are ugly, we modified the grips on ours so the angle is better, still not perfect but they should run.
It could be you just don't like it and you'd rather leave it in the drawer or safe and that's perfectly fine too.
I got no issue with that at all.

[gb6491]

The Glock is simple enough I'd try replacing stuff. Extractor, striker safety and spring etc.
...
There's a lot of truth to that.

Straight from the box, I'm batting .333 with Glock perfection:
G27 - it has been a champ right from the get-go.
G30SF - it had the failure to return to battery issue that plagued quite few folks back when it came out. If I remember correctly Glock would replace the SF with a regular G30 at the customer's request as they couldn't sort the issue out. Fortunately for me, in a Glock talk mega thread someone posted a solution that worked (replace the ejector housing with one from a G21 plus some polishing of the trigger bar) on my G30SF.
G19 (Gen 3) - it had extraction/ejection issues that I fixed by replacing the MIM extractor. I also put an updated ejector housing in it, but didn't see much (if any) improvement with that.

I still have the G19 and the G27. I've had no further issues with the G19.

The G30SF was traded off. It worked fine after the FTRB issue was resolved, but I just didn't warm up to the aircraft carrier size slide on it. I briefly played with the thought of trying to find a G36 top end for it, but ended up just going in a different direction and purchased my CW45. The CW45 has morphed into one of my favorite handguns in .45ACP.

Regards,
Greg

http://i45.tinypic.com/12645xz.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/333kdnm.jpg

[berettabone]

Engineering marvel???????????? Now that's a good one.:p

[boscobarbell]

Engineering marvel???????????? Now that's a good one.:p


Sigh....

[berettabone]

It's ok..................I don't think that there is a manufacturer out there that's hit the "perfection" plateau yet.:p

[Barth]

I looked at that one, but found two problems: 1) I couldn't find confirmation that it accepted H&K pistol magazines.
Bottom line: IMHO, send your Glock back.
Why should everyone else get to own an engineering marvel when you have to put up with an occasional failure?
Like I said, let them figure it out.

Believe my SP5K will only run with MP5 mags.
It's really a civilian MP5.
And when I bought OEM mags from Hk they were actually MP5.
The curved 30 rounders are not cheap and run ~$70 each.

As for the Glock, I'm no armorer, but FTF is usually RSA or mag springs (already changed out).
Strange thing is it ran fine with OEM 40 Storm Lake 40-9,357,40 up to around 6K on the clock.
Then occasional FMJ FTF with all barrels?
The only stinker was the jam o matic OEM G33 357 barrel (with G33 mags)
That POS FTF nearly every mag from day one (and was my reason for going with Storm Lake).
Only thing I can think of for FTF is polishing the feed ramp and/or opening the chamber?
Maybe at 6K it just needs an overhaul/tune up?
That seems to be what Bawanna is recommending?

I really like the Scottsdale Gun Club gunsmithing service.
Maybe I should break out the G27 and give it to them for a complete repair/replace everything?
Go back to bone stock 40 or 357?
I'll think about it.
Really hate having a gun I can't trust :mad:

Update:
I've decided to go with;
1) AlphaWolf Stainless Steel LCI 9mm Extractor,
White Sound Defense High Reliability Extractor Depressor Plunger Assembly for 9mm
and a OEM 9mm trigger housing/ejector.
2) Using my Storm Lake G27 40-9mm stainless steel conversion barrel (it's a tack driver).
3) Have Scottsdale Gun Club inspect and replace any other worn parts.

Maybe I can make this dog hunt after all :D
Thanks for the push guys!

Update 2.0:
Dropped off gun and parts at the gunsmith.
Having the Storm Lake barrel throated and polished as well.
Gunsmith is confident he can make it run right - Woo Hoo!!! :D

The gun is a TALO EXO exclusive G27 with a nickel boron Fail Zero self lubricating slide.
The Storm Lake 40-9mm barrel is stainless steel and looks like a Bull Barrel in the gun.
Gunsmith commented on how nice it looks.
I'm beginning to believe this story is going to have a happy ending - LOL!

[boscobarbell]

Thanks for the update! I'm sure this story will have a happy ending. I just hate hearing about guns languishing away in a dark, cold safe. :o


Believe my SP5K will only run with MP5 mags.
It's really a civilian MP5.
And when I bought OEM mags from Hk they were actually MP5.
The curved 30 rounders are not cheap and run ~$70 each.

As for the Glock, I'm no armorer, but FTF is usually RSA or mag springs (already changed out).
Strange thing is it ran fine with OEM 40 Storm Lake 40-9,357,40 up to around 6K on the clock.
Then occasional FMJ FTF with all barrels?
The only stinker was the jam o matic OEM G33 357 barrel (with G33 mags)
That POS FTF nearly every mag from day one (and was my reason for going with Storm Lake).
Only thing I can think of for FTF is polishing the feed ramp and/or opening the chamber?
Maybe at 6K it just needs an overhaul/tune up?
That seems to be what Bawanna is recommending?

I really like the Scottsdale Gun Club gunsmithing service.
Maybe I should break out the G27 and give it to them for a complete repair/replace everything?
Go back to bone stock 40 or 357?
I'll think about it.
Really hate having a gun I can't trust :mad:

Update:
I've decided to go with;
1) AlphaWolf Stainless Steel LCI 9mm Extractor,
White Sound Defense High Reliability Extractor Depressor Plunger Assembly for 9mm
and a OEM 9mm trigger housing/ejector.
2) Using my Storm Lake G27 40-9mm stainless steel conversion barrel (it's a tack driver).
3) Have Scottsdale Gun Club inspect and replace any other worn parts.

Maybe I can make this dog hunt after all :D
Thanks for the push guys!

Update 2.0:
Dropped off gun and parts at the gunsmith.
Having the Storm Lake barrel throated and polished as well.
Gunsmith is confident he can make it run right - Woo Hoo!!! :D

The gun is a TALO EXO exclusive G27 with a nickel boron Fail Zero self lubricating slide.
The Storm Lake 40-9mm barrel is stainless steel and looks like a Bull Barrel in the gun.
Gunsmith commented on how nice it looks.
I'm beginning to believe this story is going to have a happy ending - LOL!

[Flieger]

I own, shoot and carry an MK40 with the extended round magazine. I have textured tape on the front grip strap and also around the plastic magazine base. It really changes the handling, grip purchase and stability.

The caliber debate will will seemingly never end, but IMHO, if you can handle the .40 with accuracy then go with it. If it’s too much, then go with the 9mm. After all, hitting the target is most important, but hitting it with more power also gives an advantage. The government initially went to the .40 for some compelling reasons and if you want to watch a great government training video that introduces the .40 S&W, then sit back, grab the popcorn and enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRRLUTmEhRY

[b4uqzme]

^^^ I watched it...sans popcorn.

P40 here. A full 3 finger grip helps me shoot faster and more accurately. I had a K40 and that was a very easy gun to shoot well for it's size and considering the .40 caliber's snappy reputation. I shoot the P40 just as well but have to admit it stings these aging hands a bit more. So I guess I'm with Flieger and recommend the .40 for those who feel they can shoot it well. If not, as Paul Harrell says, 9mm will do fine with the right bullet. But even the best 9mm falls a little short of most .40SW ammo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0&app=desktop

[Flieger]

B4,
Thanks for the YouTube link. It was very comprehensive and well done leaving little ambiguity on the topic.
Popcorn was ok for this one, but I’d stay away from soda bottles.

[7shot]

i practice double taps with my MK9 every time i go to the range, it's most definitely an easy skill to learn and to do proficiently! The trigger has nothing to do with it not being able to be done. IMO the Kahr triggers are long and smooth and made for a fast double tap up to a distance of 10 yrds.

And I don't buy the theory/movie stigmatism where one bullet, either .40, .45 or especially 9mm is going to stop an assailant. I guess maybe if you're lucky it might but I'm not taking that chance..double tap that mothers ass and then go from there.

Just my thoughts on this...

[b4uqzme]

i practice double taps with my MK9 every time i go to the range, it's most definitely an easy skill to learn and to do proficiently! The trigger has nothing to do with it not being able to be done. IMO the Kahr triggers are long and smooth and made for a fast double tap up to a distance of 10 yrds.

And I don't buy the theory/movie stigmatism where one bullet, either .40, .45 or especially 9mm is going to stop an assailant. I guess maybe if you're lucky it might but I'm not taking that chance..double tap that mothers ass and then go from there.

Just my thoughts on this...

That makes sense
I don't expect to stop with just a double tap either