Another Range Day Disaster

[boscobarbell]

I got my CW380 back to the range today to check out my new night sights and see if my guide rod issue was behind me, and the results weren't pretty.

I'm now experiencing light primer strikes about 50% of the time, a brand new problem I haven't seen before. It occurs regardless of ammo, and the rounds that didn't ignite never failed to do so when I moved them to my Pico or Remington RM380.

The seller was kind enough to install the Lakeline striker that I purchased before shipping the gun to me, so that isn't the problem here.

I think my CW380 experiment may be just about over.

[b4uqzme]

bummer :(

[Ed M]

Ammo won't fire in 3 different guns.....

Ya think it might be the ammo? What is it? Might be a bad batch - happens...

Sorry - misread your post. So it fires in the Pico and Rm380, but not the CW380?

[RustyIron]

A potential problem with striker fired guns, and especially with small striker fired guns, is striker channel contamination. I kid you not. One flake of unburned powder or a single drop of oil can ruin your day. On a "business gun," I consider it prudent to clean the striker channel nearly every time I clean the gun. Take it apart, clean with Q-Tip, make SURE there is no fuzz from the Q-Tip remaining, and assemble dry.

[Ikeo74]

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads?

[King Rat]

Just curious, how often do you change out your recoil springs? I get the feeling they wear out rather quickly in the Kahr.

[Ed M]

Bosco, I have a suspicion that this latest problem is recoil spring/guide rod related. On my CW380s, there is next to nothing for the flanged end of the guide rod to hang up on. Basically just a mold line between the front of the frame and the pocket that flange fits in. It just seats up against the back of the pocket.

If you think it'll help, I'll tear one down and measure some stuff. Maybe the answer is there...

We're with ya buddy - hang in there!

[boscobarbell]

Ammo won't fire in 3 different guns.....

Ya think it might be the ammo? What is it? Might be a bad batch - happens...

Sorry - misread your post. So it fires in the Pico and Rm380, but not the CW380?

Correct.

[boscobarbell]

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads?

All factory.

[boscobarbell]

A potential problem with striker fired guns, and especially with small striker fired guns, is striker channel contamination. I kid you not. One flake of unburned powder or a single drop of oil can ruin your day. On a "business gun," I consider it prudent to clean the striker channel nearly every time I clean the gun. Take it apart, clean with Q-Tip, make SURE there is no fuzz from the Q-Tip remaining, and assemble dry.

I'll do an extra thorough job cleaning it out just to be sure, but it seems odd that this is happening at the same time my gun seems sluggish getting back to battery when I hand-cycle it. If you look in my other thread, my slide sticks about an eighth of an inch before it fully returns unless I very vigorously slingshot it. Could that be tied in to this issue?

[boscobarbell]

Bosco, I have a suspicion that this latest problem is recoil spring/guide rod related. On my CW380s, there is next to nothing for the flanged end of the guide rod to hang up on. Basically just a mold line between the front of the frame and the pocket that flange fits in. It just seats up against the back of the pocket.

If you think it'll help, I'll tear one down and measure some stuff. Maybe the answer is there...

We're with ya buddy - hang in there!

Hey, I'm all ears if you're willing to take a look. Thanks....

[CPTKILLER]

The next step may be selling it.

[boscobarbell]

The next step may be selling it.

Yup, looking that way.

The bummer is that it'll be at a significant loss. I paid $250 for it, installed the Lakeline striker, added a magazine and installed Magguts to both, put in a Galloway SS guide rod and SS striker guide, added night sights, and have a Remora IWB hybrid holster enroute.

Hey, it's only money, right?

[Ed M]

Actually, the next step should be several ones.

Remove each aftermarket part you added - one at a time - and test it to see if it solves the problem after each one is replaced with the factory part.

I've got a few Galloway guide rod assemblies in some of my guns, and I'll say they're not the equal of my Lakeline guide rods. I'll be back....

[boscobarbell]

Actually, I misspoke. I have the Lakeline SS guide rod...which, at present, isn't even in the pistol because I can't get it to properly seat. It is just a hair bigger than the OEM.


Actually, the next step should be several ones.

Remove each aftermarket part you added - one at a time - and test it to see if it solves the problem after each one is replaced with the factory part.

I've got a few Galloway guide rod assemblies in some of my guns, and I'll say they're not the equal of my Lakeline guide rods. I'll be back....

[boscobarbell]

Just tore my pistol apart again and noticed something that may or may not be pertinent.

If I reassemble the gun WITHOUT the slide stop lever, the pistol returns to battery fully and doesn't bind. Once the slide stop lever is back in place, the binding returns and the pistol hangs up before fully returning to battery.

????

[Ed M]

Here's what I got:

frame pocket inside diameter = .424"
top of frame pocket opening = .35"
LL guide rod length = 1.89"
LL guide rod diameter = .219"
LL flange diameter = .419"
LL flange thickness = .055"
factory guide rod length = 1.88"
factory guide rod diameter = .220"
factory guide rod flange diameter = .423"
factory flange thickness = .044"

Here's what that guide rod pocket in the frame looks like:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14838&stc=1

[boscobarbell]

Thanks, Ed. I'll try to measure mine in a bit. Based on the eyeball test, that looks pretty much like mine.

The only obvious discrepancy I can see is that my LL guide rod appears to be bigger in every dimension than my OEM one.

[King Rat]

I once had a similar problem with another gun, and it turned out to the the new Stainless guide rod I had put in. It was a little too long. I sent it back and they saw the mistake and sent me 5 new one's.

[boscobarbell]

I once had a similar problem with another gun, and it turned out to the the new Stainless guide rod I had put in. It was a little too long. I sent it back and they saw the mistake and sent me 5 new one's.

I assumed that was the culprit, so I immediately replaced it with the OEM one when this started. I wish it were that easy!

[boscobarbell]

My rudimentary attempts at measurement seem to be within the specs of Ed's measurements, so I remain confused.

Since this all started when my LGS had their armorer install my night sights, I threw up my hands this afternoon and took the pistol back to them. They promised they'd either figure it out or send it back to Kahr themselves.

I'll report back when I hear more......

[b4uqzme]

My rudimentary attempts at measurement seem to be within the specs of Ed's measurements, so I remain confused.

Since this all started when my LGS had their armorer install my night sights, I threw up my hands this afternoon and took the pistol back to them. They promised they'd either figure it out or send it back to Kahr themselves.

I'll report back when I hear more......

that seems like a good plan. Good luck.

[RustyIron]

my gun seems sluggish getting back to battery when I hand-cycle it.

Not necessarily something to get excited about. Many small pistols feel that way. The only problem is when it doesn’t go fully into battery. It should be easy enough to check. You said 50% fail to fire. Before every shot, slam the back of the slide with the heel of your hand. If the gun starts firing reliably, problem solved.

[RustyIron]

I got my CW380 back to the range today to check out my new night sights


Sorry, man. I overlooked the part about new sights. I’m not familiar with the mechanics of the CW pistols, but this is definitely something to consider. Many pistols have the firing pin safety located under the rear sight. Maybe there’s something a little different from the factory sights, or maybe the sight installer goofed something up.

[MMyers1970]

Have you sent it back to Kahr? If you haven't, I'd put all the factory parts back in and do that.

[Ed M]

Have you sent it back to Kahr? If you haven't, I'd put all the factory parts back in and do that.

^^^^This. If it goes back to Kahr, that's what'll likely happen, and you probably won't get the aftermarket parts back.

[gb6491]

My rudimentary attempts at measurement seem to be within the specs of Ed's measurements, so I remain confused.

Since this all started when my LGS had their armorer install my night sights, I threw up my hands this afternoon and took the pistol back to them. They promised they'd either figure it out or send it back to Kahr themselves.

I'll report back when I hear more......


Sorry, man. I overlooked the part about new sights. I’m not familiar with the mechanics of the CW pistols, but this is definitely something to consider. Many pistols have the firing pin safety located under the rear sight. Maybe there’s something a little different from the factory sights, or maybe the sight installer goofed something up.
The OEM front sight on "C" series Kahr pistols is held on by two plastic legs that have the ends melted to form heads. The Trijicon sight that Kahr offers on their website has two metal posts and a screw is inserted into the rear one to hold the sight on Folks have said there are now screws for both posts, but I've not seen it so I'll just speak of the single screw. If that screw is not flush or slightly below the surface of the slide, it can interfere with the barrel...enough so that the gun does not go into battery. Some of the "C" series guns, like the CW45, have sufficiently counter sunk holes from the factory that this will not be an issue. My CW9 didn't and I had to deepen the countersink when I installed a Trijicon on it.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=54961#post54961

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=90890#post90890

Regards,
Greg

[boscobarbell]

Have you sent it back to Kahr? If you haven't, I'd put all the factory parts back in and do that.

I'm afraid it's too late for that. Oh, well....

[boscobarbell]

^^^^This. If it goes back to Kahr, that's what'll likely happen, and you probably won't get the aftermarket parts back.

So they'd take out my Lakeline striker and then not even return it?! Well, that sucks. Here's a thought, Kahr...how about making a striker that isn't a source of problems to begin with?

[boscobarbell]

Well, that might explain things. We'll see what the factory says.....


The OEM front sight on "C" series Kahr pistols is held on by two plastic legs that have the ends melted to form heads. The Trijicon sight that Kahr offers on their website has two metal posts and a screw is inserted into the rear one to hold the sight on Folks have said there are now screws for both posts, but I've not seen it so I'll just speak of the single screw. If that screw is not flush or slightly below the surface of the slide, it can interfere with the barrel...enough so that the gun does not go into battery. Some of the "C" series guns, like the CW45, have sufficiently counter sunk holes from the factory that this will not be an issue. My CW9 didn't and I had to deepen the countersink when I installed a Trijicon on it.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=54961#post54961

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?1612-CW45-(and-other-poly-Kahr-pistols)-issues-and-fixes&p=90890#post90890

Regards,
Greg

[Ed M]

... Folks have said there are now screws for both posts, but I've not seen it ....

Roscoe the CM9 likes his new 2 screw Trijicon front sight. He now has 500 rounds through him since I installed the new 2 screw front sight, and it's still there. I'm calling this a success....:cool:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14840&stc=1

[gb6491]

Roscoe the CM9 likes his new 2 screw Trijicon front sight. He now has 500 rounds through him since I installed the new 2 screw front sight, and it's still there. I'm calling this a success....:cool:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14840&stc=1
Well now I've seen it!:cool:
Thanks Ed!:)