Opinions on the cw380

[brycewise]

I was looking at adding a small 380 for pocket carry when I cant carry my Glocks... Im deciding between the LCP2, CW380 or the glock 42...

Im leaning toward either the LCP2 or Kahr since I really like the size and price point of both and the 42 is as big as a 9mm. I have been doing some research on the Kahr and the feedback on the CW380's reliability is 50/50 with most opinions falling on the polar ends where either the owners are loving them or hating them.

Honestly, Im not too keen on kahr saying their pistols need 200 rounds before they are considered reliable, while its not bad advice and you should always test the weapon before carrying it... it seems to me that they should leave the factory already in a condition considered reliable.


So What is the consensuses on these little guys from the kahr talk members?

[MMyers1970]

My CW380 was not great in the beginning. I experienced failures to feed for the first 200 rounds, at least one round per magazine. The FTF was more like "slide failing to return to battery", requiring me to nudge the slide forward before I could fire the weapon.

I dutifully ran 200 rounds through it, and the problem got slightly better. After 300 rounds, I still couldn't trust the pistol. At one range session, it launched the slide stop out of the gun. At this point, I decided to send it back to Kahr.

Kahr paid for shipping both ways, kept my pistol in house for exactly one day, replaced every spring and polished the feedramp to a mirror polish. Now it works 100 percent of the time.

At the time, the CW380 was the smallest 380 with actual sights and a last round hold open which was commonly available. All the others---Ruger,Kel-Tec, Taurus---were all basically the same pistol, and didn't have those features. Now the LCP2 is on the market and seems like it's corrected the failings of the original LCP.

If I was in the market for a small .380, I'd still choose the Kahr. The Ruger is a fine choice too.

[DavidR]

Here's how I interpret the 200 round break in: if you experience minor problems with the firearm give it a little time to work out. If it hasn't worked itself out after 200 rounds then call us.

If there are major problems there's no need to wait 200 rounds to call.


Dave

[boscobarbell]

I'm on my second CW380, and am currently experiencing numerous issues like all the ones you've probably been reading about.

HOWEVER...I haven't given up yet. The pistol, or rather the POTENTIAL of the pistol, is that good.

I owned the Ruger LCPII. It experienced every possible failure, so Ruger asked for it back...TWICE. The second time they returned a new model to me...which was worst than the first. It, too, experienced every type of failure, and the second time back to Ruger I insisted on either a new model entirely or a refund. We settled on a different model (9mm) which I promptly sold as new to my LGS.

I also think the LCPII has a marginally unsafe trigger for any sort of pocket carry situation. If you intend to holster it on your waist, perhaps that wouldn't be a concern to you.

It is also a bit harsh of a shooter, although many of these micros can be with the hotter rounds. Sights are crappy, too, although it is intended as a point and shoot belly gun anyway.

FWIW, I've had great luck with both my Pico and my Remington RM380. The latter especially is built like a tank and will cycle anything you feed it. Trigger is a little stiff out of the box, but Galloway offers some upgrades and it does smooth out and lighten with dry-firing and range time.

This is a tough segment in the pistol world, so best of luck.

[SlowBurn]

I own 2, and had 2 others in the past. The most recent one (4th) is the first to experience issues and they're exactly as described by MMyers1970 except I sent mine in after 200 rounds. It's in there now. The other 3 have been money.

Before and in between I've owned an LCP, a Pico, and very briefly a Taurus TCP. All had issues and none were close to being as shootable as the Kahr in my opinion.

I'm curious to try the new Taurus Spectrum. The specs look good but they're way behind in making them available. Same thing happened when the CW380 first came out.

[RustyIron]

Hey, Bryce.
Recently got my first Kahr. I wanted a TINY pistol. Despite being unimpressed with the Kahrs that I handled back in the company's early days, the P380 caught my eye. Little pistols can be finicky, so before even shooting it for the first time, I disassembled the P380 except for the trigger mechanism. The intention was to polish all the poorly finished parts, but really, there was nothing really wrong with the gun. I did the feed ramp, and perhaps something else, but I can't remember. Everything was cleaned and lubed, and I threw in a Lakeline striker for good measure. The gun ran flawlessly. As far as I know, the CW380 is just a less expensive version of the P380, and I would expect them both to function similarly. Go with the Kahr.

[brycewise]

Thanks... the feedback on here is much the same... two people had good experiences 1 had a negative experience and the other is bad at first... I'm going with the LCP 2. I haven't found nearly as many negatives about that pistol.

I really want to like the kahr, but I don't think I would be confident in a gun that has the amount of negative reviews as the kahr does especially if they are manufactured in a way that requires me to figure out something the manufacture should before it leaves the factory

[Ed M]

Kahr CW380 - Lakeline stainless guide rod, Lakeline Ultimate striker, Talon grip. It's 7+1 with the MagGuts conversion, all stainless/polymer, excellent trigger, excellent sights with a night sight option.

It's 100% reliable, crazy accurate for it's size, and it vanishes in my pocket in a DeSantis Nemesis. Handles recoil very well - I could shoot it all day comfortably.

My carry ammo is Underwood Xtreme Defender +P. That's 1400 fps, and 283 ft lbs energy at the muzzle. This compares very favorably with +P rounds out of a snubby 38 revolver, and has 8 rounds on tap.

At half the price of the P380, it's an easy decision. FWIW, I own 2 of them.

[yqtszhj]

Ed M talked me into buying mine last week. My CW380 came in Wednesday. I put 188 flawless rounds of American Eagle through it yesterday. Cleaned it this AM and it's functioning smoothly. One more range outing and it goes into carry rotation.

Grab a gun had them for $219 last weekend. I figured for that price if I didn't like it I could sell it for 200. So far it is definitely a keeper.

[mark7mod0]

After 500 rds my Kahr CW380 is still very difficult to hand cycle, but operates flawlessly during actually firing of the firearm. Did a slight mod to the extractor lower tip to enable it to feed and eject any 380 ammo. Polished the feed ramp and the upper chamber. If I were to do it over again.....would probably buy the CM9. Ammo is cheaper seems to be easier to break in than the 380 firearms....NOT saying all of them are!!! Not much difference in size. Did I make a mistake buying the CW380?...not at all!! Got it on sale at Tombstone online for less than $210 .....there is nothing that can be found to say that is not a great deal on a very fine firearm.

[Armybrat]

I really want to like the kahr, but I don't think I would be confident in a gun that has the amount of negative reviews as the kahr does

As I've said before, if I relied entirely on Internet complaints about which gun to not buy, I'd be carrying a Louisville Slugger for protection.

I've read plenty of gripes about Ruger LCPII problems, but that wouldn't mean I'd never buy one. Have carried a 1st Generation LCP since 2008 without a problem, and recently bought the improved Generation 2 (not the LCPII) just because it was $199.

[dsk]

I too have read complaints about the LCP II. Honestly, small .380s are a crapshoot no matter which one you go with. Even the Glock 42 has had its fair share of teething problems and unhappy owners, and yet people say Glocks are Pefection™. A lot of it is due to the ammo BTW, not the guns. There seem to be significant variations of bullet shapes, rim configuration, and power levels of the various .380 ammo out there which can cause little pocket guns to have fits. If you get into pocket .380s plan on dealing with a little trial and error, and be prepared to have to stick with a single gun and ammo combination that works.

My experience with a Kahr .380 is this: when it works it's unbeatable. The problem is getting one that does. My P380 is the only gun of its size that I can confidently engage targets out to 25 yards as if I had a full-sized service pistol in my hands. Unfortunately I've spent way more money than I should on aftermarket parts and range ammo just to work out the numerous problems I had with it.

[Armybrat]

I hear ya. I did buy a CT380 to see if I could avoid some of the tiny CW380 hang ups. the CT runs perfect so far, except it will not shoot WWB ammo at all. Kinda weird, but it likes everything else..

[mark7mod0]

I am one of the people that did the extractor slight rounding to make all ammo feed and eject, but I still stay with Federal or Estate when I go to the range because those are the brands of ammo I broke the gun in on. I will not shoot the CW380 much at the range since I broke it in (CZ P-07 and the .22 conversion kit for it is my main range gun), so a box of the better 380 ammo is worth it when I do shoot it. My SD choice is PwR"Ball because it feeds the smoothest, seems to be clean burning and very accurate. At first I thought I made a mistake buying the CW380, but as I have said in other posts, I feel it is one of the better firearm purchases I have made.

[yqtszhj]

.... (CZ P-07 and the .22 conversion kit for it is my main range gun)...

What conversion kit did you get and how well does it work? Have read hit snd miss stories about those.

[TheLastDaze]

Thanks... the feedback on here is much the same... two people had good experiences 1 had a negative experience and the other is bad at first... I'm going with the LCP 2. I haven't found nearly as many negatives about that pistol.

I really want to like the kahr, but I don't think I would be confident in a gun that has the amount of negative reviews as the kahr does especially if they are manufactured in a way that requires me to figure out something the manufacture should before it leaves the factory

LCP2 is a good choice....

[mark7mod0]

What conversion kit did you get and how well does it work? Have read hit snd miss stories about those.

I have the Kadet .22 conversion kit. Out of the box, removed the 9mm top assembly and installed the kit on the P-07 and have around 400 flawless rounds out of it. My only gripe is the mags are an arm and a leg.!!!http://www.gunbroker.com/item/682153444http://www.gunbroker.com/item/682153444

[King Rat]

After owning 3 Lcp's and on my fourth, I find them a very over rated pistol. I have shot thousands of rounds, but moved on to better, smoother pocket guns. I would never own the LCPll, Trigger sucked for a pocket gun and I find it very unsafe. And I am a Ruger fan with other pistols and revolvers. The LCP is not the tank like Ruger is well known for. The LCP is not a smooth shooter, lousy sights, and do not hold up well with frequent shooting.
The good points of the LCP is that all of mine shot just about any ammo and were reliable.(until they were not). My opinion is that if you decide to go with the LCP go with the LCP *gen2 and not the LCP ll. If you do not shoot frequently, do not mind the snappy recoil, then this may be the gun for you. And the LCP is about $100 less that the LCP ll. More contoured, nice smooth trigger and much safer. Ruger also has great Customer Service.

I like the Kahr. Yes it is finicky on ammo, and I had one bad time, where I had problems, but believe it was my mistake of not putting the recoil springs in incorrectly. Quality of build is top notch, trigger is long but smooth. Find the right and ammo and let the gun continue to break in and it now seems to shoot great. Very Mild, great sights. Mine is shooting very reliably at this point. I want to get to 1000 rounds before I make a complete judgement on the gun. Now at 500 rds or more and shooting fine.

My favorite gun is the Beretta Pico. Loved the gun so much, I bought a second. Now around 2,000 rds. without one single hiccup. The second one has over 500 without a flaw.
Like the Kahr shoots very mild. Both guns are "Fun" shooters, and are guns that you can put a lot of rounds through at the range without any slappy/snappy feel like other pocket guns such as the LCP.

Both the Kahr and the Pico have excellent build quality, and that is obvious buy just a simple comparison or observation. These guns seem built to last for the long term. Especially the Pico which is built like a tank in the quality department. I have been working of taking Pics of a side by side comparison of components, which which I will post later.

[DavidR]

Regarding the LCP, I don't think it's overrated at all. It's a very small, lightweight pistol that is generally very reliable. It functions fine for a close range SD gun.


Dave

[Ken43]

I had a Kahr CW380 for about 4 months. I loved the gun, however; due to the arthritis in my hand I was unable to work the slide. I never had any type of malfunction, but I felt that if I ever had a malfunction where I need to tap, rack, bang. I would not be able to get past the rack part. I ended up getting the Glock 42. I am very happy now.

[TheLastDaze]

king rat must be talking about a gun from mars.... ive shot well over 1800 rounds through my lcp and most are handloads, ive never had a single problem with the gun... you must be sensitive to recoil or have monster hands and cant control the gun... these things rock out of the box, no mods needed.... period

[dsk]

The Ruger LCP has been the best-selling micro .380 on the market over the past decade for a reason. It's a cheap, simple little pistol that works quite well. Most of them usually run 100% with most brands of ammo, which isn't something that can be said of the P/CW380. The recoil is objectionable to some people, but I don't think it's really that bad. However they aren't nearly as accurate or as comfortable to shoot as a Kahr.

[King Rat]

king rat must be talking about a gun from mars.... ive shot well over 1800 rounds through my lcp and most are handloads, ive never had a single problem with the gun... you must be sensitive to recoil or have monster hands and cant control the gun... these things rock out of the box, no mods needed.... period

Lol, so you consider a size 9 a monster hand? Really? Recoil sensitive? Hardly. I said I have owned three of these, and on my fourth. What makes you think I cannot control the gun? I actually shot the gun quite well. But they are hardly smooth shooters. You say you have shot the gun 1800 rounds, ok. I shot my first one 2200 rds before it went down. As I said, I have owned and shot LCP's for a long time, I was on the LCP forum for years and learned quite a bit about them. I feel I know these guns well. I have posted before to start looking for cracks in the grip and frame as early as 1500 rounds. And If you have actually shot other guns and you cannot feel the significance in the differences in recoil, then I have to wonder if you have ever shot other pocket guns most especially the Karh and the Pico or the Sigs.
I will post pics later of the difference in the quality of the parts etc. And Pics of cracks, and rail splits etc. The LCP, Keltec,Taurus etc. are all good guns, just do not have the quality of the Beretta and the Kahr or Sig nor do they shoot as mild and forgiving. The LCP gen2, IMO at around $179.00 is the better buy over the LCP ll. Safer trigger, smooth trigger very similar to the Kahr and cost $100 less in cost. Buy the way, I am not the only one that found the Recoil of the LCP to be harsh. It is pretty much a standard of opinion for years. Yes it is a good reliable gun, as far as ammo goes, but they are throw away guns. Meant to shoot for a certain amount of rounds and then they go down. Good news is Ruger will repair them or send you a new one.

Below are so of the areas where the LCP will go down, lack of stress points from the recoil.

http://i.imgur.com/lVEKz2a.jpg?3

Here is a pic of another owners pistol. I had similar grips with one going all the way down the mag well.

http://i.imgur.com/J1qqju6.jpg?2

http://i.imgur.com/61GHNiG.jpg?2

Notice the stainless steel inserts on the Kahr There is a reason Kahr went to the extra lenghts to add these inserts

http://i.imgur.com/moVl4xW.jpg?1

The Pico not only has designed steel inserts for the stress areas, but the Pistol is modular. Easy to change out to a new grip.

http://i.imgur.com/2Wuy9GQ.jpg?2

[berettabone]

IMHO, I wouldn't carry any of them. Ease of carry and convenience are last on my list of attributes for a firearm for carry. You get what you pay for. Shoot them for a while and throw them away. That's what they are, throw a way's. Couple thousand rounds and that's it. IMHO, anyone who shoots more than a couple hundred rounds through one of these is wasting ammo. Realistically, they are for 7 yds. and under. What if your defensive situation requires something more accurate and at a longer distance for a longer period of time? You're SOL my friend. You could throw it at them, but the plastic won't do too much damage. Instead of worrying about how easy it is to plop it in your pocket or purse, you should be thinking a bit more seriously about saving your life. That is why we carry. No thanks to the plastic fantastic pea shooters. I'll carry a real gun, and put up with a bit of discomfort. I guess it all depends on how serious you really are about protecting yourself and loved ones. I used to own a few of these firearms, so I have shot them. Key words, used to. Waste of ammo. Unless you're financially lucky enough to have lots of ammo on hand. Lousy triggers, lousy sights, cheap materials, what's not to like??????? Flame if you wish, but it's really something to seriously think about.

[mark7mod0]

IMHO, I wouldn't carry any of them. Ease of carry and convenience are last on my list of attributes for a firearm for carry. You get what you pay for. Shoot them for a while and throw them away. That's what they are, throw a way's. Couple thousand rounds and that's it. IMHO, anyone who shoots more than a couple hundred rounds through one of these is wasting ammo. Realistically, they are for 7 yds. and under. What if your defensive situation requires something more accurate and at a longer distance for a longer period of time? You're SOL my friend. You could throw it at them, but the plastic won't do too much damage. Instead of worrying about how easy it is to plop it in your pocket or purse, you should be thinking a bit more seriously about saving your life. That is why we carry. No thanks to the plastic fantastic pea shooters. I'll carry a real gun, and put up with a bit of discomfort. I guess it all depends on how serious you really are about protecting yourself and loved ones. I used to own a few of these firearms, so I have shot them. Key words, used to. Waste of ammo. Unless you're financially lucky enough to have lots of ammo on hand. Lousy triggers, lousy sights, cheap materials, what's not to like??????? Flame if you wish, but it's really something to seriously think about.

It took a while, but finally...the first gun snob post I have seen since I joined this forum. TY, it reassures my faith that people like you will always be around to tutor us as to what we should carry as a REAL self defense firearm!!!

[Bawanna]

Don't make me come down there and separate you two!

One mans junk is another mans treasure. Leave it at that.

[yqtszhj]

I carry 9mm's most of the time and a couple of them are small enough to be pocketable. But at times the .380 fits the bill when I'm working in the yard and its 95 degrees with humidity to match, or working under the car, or carrying in light clothing where carry is not permi.... well you know what I mean. But I'm always carrying. Its a get off me pistol and 7 rounds of ball ammo (yes I carry ball in .380) will get them off me. If I'm shooting at distance I'll prefer my .45 which I shoot really well to 50 yards, or my 9's for maximum round count.

The original LCP is a hand full to me without that hogue grip and I do have monster hands. Darn thing is a knuckle buster because my fingers are so long I can't shoot like youre "supposed" to. Over over 7 years I've put well over 1000 rounds through it little by little to stay proficient and at 3 yards or less (face to face distance) I can make center chest or head shots without aiming every time. It's functioned 100% with everything but Independence ammo.

Only once did I almost have to draw my carry gun and I had my CM9 on me at the time. But the .380 would have served it's purpose because the guy was in my face.

Back to the original post, my new CW380 is nice, better shooting than the LCP gen 1, and I'm happy with it so far.

Main thing is everyone should always carry but I will say I wouldn't want to carry smaller than a .380 given how concealable they are these days. Better than just a stick for sure. Wasn't WW2 started because Archduke Ferdinand was killed with either a .32 or .380? I cant remember which caliber it was.

[Ed M]

I agree with yqtszhj (what a surprise).

I can shoot my CW380 very accurately at 10 yards, and with the advances in ammo technology, you're not giving up a thing compared to +P 38 Special out of a snubby revolver.

If I have the distance to get away, I'm running. Getting into a gun fight at longer distances with a handgun isn't a good idea no matter what you're carrying.

[JethrosDad]

I agree with yqtszhj (what a surprise).

I can shoot my CW380 very accurately at 10 yards, and with the advances in ammo technology, you're not giving up a thing compared to +P 38 Special out of a snubby revolver.

If I have the distance to get away, I'm running. Getting into a gun fight at longer distances with a handgun isn't a good idea no matter what you're carrying.

What he said.

I don't know about any of you all but in an active shooter situation (the shooter is within ear shot but out of sight) I'm getting my A** out of there. I guess I tend more to the "flight" than the "fight"

[dsk]

If you want a pocket .380 to double as a range gun get a Glock 42, SIG P238 or Colt Mustang. They're stout enough for the long haul, but you'll be paying the price of additional size and weight.

[King Rat]

I agree with yqtszhj (what a surprise).

I can shoot my CW380 very accurately at 10 yards, and with the advances in ammo technology, you're not giving up a thing compared to +P 38 Special out of a snubby revolver.

If I have the distance to get away, I'm running. Getting into a gun fight at longer distances with a handgun isn't a good idea no matter what you're carrying.

Good point Ed. Yes, A lot of folks do not want to believe in the Power and advances of the 380. And 10 yards IMO and experience are going to be the high percentage of where danger will most likely happen. Like yourself, I can shoot the Kahr and Pico very well at 10 yards and shoot them fast to target. I practice weekly with the Pocket guns. In the winter I do carry the single stack 9mm with the Pico or Kahr as a Backup. I also have a snubby, but it is the 9mm LCR. However most of the time it is a Ruger Lc9s. Still hoping to get the CM9 at a later time. And not to forget the Kahr/Pico are solid pistols that easily handle Plus P or hot ammo. In fact they shoot it with less recoil than the LCP shoots standard range ammo. They are both built tough.

[Armybrat]

I agree about the steel rails "infused" into the Kahr poly frame - they should last longer than the LCP that has none. However, I have less than 250 rounds through my 1st Gen Ruger which is almost 10 years old, and only shoot two or three mags through it annually. So it should last a while. But if it breaks I have a brand new 2nd Gen LCP (not the LCP II) to replace it. Both guns are 2nd stringers in my carry rotation, as the CT380 gets most of the mileage.

It all might become moot for me as soon as I take delivery of a new Remora IWB clip holster for my new CW9.

Read somewhere tthat Ruger has produced about 1.5 Million of those little LCP buggers. KelTec must be pretty mad they didn't patent their original design.

[yqtszhj]

If you want a pocket .380 to double as a range gun get a Glock 42, SIG P238 or Colt Mustang. They're stout enough for the long haul, but you'll be paying the price of additional size and weight.

Glock 42 = BOO
SIG P238 = YESSSSS
Colt Mustang = YESSSS

Had to say that about the glock. I'm sure its good but I've put those G words out of my mind.

The P238 or Mustang are nice. I've got a 1988 Colt Government Model .380 that is nice enough to make Bawanna want to start carrying a .380. That all steel gun is heavy though. Weighs more than my P30sk that holds 10 rounds of 9mm. Suprise to is it doesnt shoot that soft from what I remember. Its pretty much a safe queen as its almost mint and it was a gift to me.

[Bawanna]

Hey I have a Colt 32 vest pocket. I can tolerate pea shooters. Never carry it but its in a place of honor and kind of special.

[yqtszhj]

Colt 32, thats sweet.

I just got a CDNN email about a special on Sig P938's. Hmmmm, always wantec one of those too.. the 9mm Mustang. .. :confused:

[dsk]

Glock 42 = BOO

Had to say that about the glock. I'm sure its good but I've put those G words out of my mind.

Beauty's in the eye of the beerholder. I am no Glock fanboy but I have to admit my G42 rocks. Close to 2,000 rounds without a single malfunction (aside from two instances of the slide locking open prematurely, with the cause subsequently fixed), accurate as a laser and very easy to shoot. The only negative is that it's noticeably larger than my P380 and thus harder to conceal, to the point where another fraction of an inch here and there and you're at the size of a pocket 9mm. BTW I also have a Colt .380 Pocket Hammerless from 1929. It's a sweet shooter as well, but way too heavy for its size. It's also not drop-safe.

As for the .380 and its effectiveness, I am a firm believer that a bad guy will pay more attention to where he's been shot than what he was shot with. Normally gunshot victims have no idea what they were shot with until they're out of surgery and the doctor tells them. If you watch a lot of security cam footage of 7-11 robberies gone wrong you'll see that as soon as the bullets start to fly everyone scatters, including the ones that were shot. Very few will drop like a rag doll unless they were hit in the central nervous system. Instead they usually run outside, then suddenly realize they're hurt and bleeding bad. Anyone expecting their mighty .45 to knock an adversary right off their feet is probably going to be in for a nasty surprise.

[boscobarbell]

What he said.

I don't know about any of you all but in an active shooter situation (the shooter is within ear shot but out of sight) I'm getting my A** out of there. I guess I tend more to the "flight" than the "fight"

This is a wise strategy, in terms of both tactics and legal liability.

[boscobarbell]

Statistically, most gun fights occur at very close distances. An encounter beyond the 7-10 yard range is about as likely as getting hit by lightning while falling off a cliff. Take LEO encounters out of the stats (because they often HAVE to enter the encounter, whereas civilians can simply retreat, observe, and report) and it is almost statistically immeasurable.

So I wholeheartedly agree with you. If you've got a gun that is reliable and fairly accurate at 10 yards, you've got yourself an EDC keeper.

Agree also wrt to caliber. With today's advances, a .380 is more than viable for an EDC round. Caliber snobs will always call for bigger bullets, but the reality is that we're ALL dealing with compromised weapons. If we knew with absolute certainty that we were going to get into a gunfight on a particular day, we'd all carry a carbine…with a shotgun as backup. So opting for a pistol is always a compromise, and the ballistic differences amongst .380/9/40/45, while measurable, really vanish in terms of real-world effectiveness when you factor in multiple hits on target. So train, train, train, learn to hit center mass with multiple rounds when it counts. And, if age and physical conditions allow, practice shooting on the move and getting to concealment/cover, because no matter what you throw at your bad guy, getting shot in return will ruin your whole day.

Good point Ed. Yes, A lot of folks do not want to believe in the Power and advances of the 380. And 10 yards IMO and experience are going to be the high percentage of where danger will most likely happen. Like yourself, I can shoot the Kahr and Pico very well at 10 yards and shoot them fast to target. I practice weekly with the Pocket guns. In the winter I do carry the single stack 9mm with the Pico or Kahr as a Backup. I also have a snubby, but it is the 9mm LCR. However most of the time it is a Ruger Lc9s. Still hoping to get the CM9 at a later time. And not to forget the Kahr/Pico are solid pistols that easily handle Plus P or hot ammo. In fact they shoot it with less recoil than the LCP shoots standard range ammo. They are both built tough.

[dustnchips]

Anyone expecting their mighty .45 to knock an adversary right off their feet is probably going to be in for a nasty surprise.

I am truly surprised, in the movies all guns lift the bad guys off of their feet. I have never understood why that same power doesn't rip the shooters hand off though. I guess the science teachers were full of BS about the action and equal reaction.

[yqtszhj]

Anyone expecting their mighty .45 to knock an adversary right off their feet is probably going to be in for a nasty surprise.

I am truly surprised, in the movies all guns lift the bad guys off of their feet. I have never understood why that same power doesn't rip the shooters hand off though. I guess the science teachers were full of BS about the action and equal reaction.

Aw man, that just busted my bubble concerning Dirty Harry. So it didn't really happen? ;)

[SlowBurn]

I own 2, and had 2 others in the past. The most recent one (4th) is the first to experience issues and they're exactly as described by MMyers1970 except I sent mine in after 200 rounds. It's in there now. The other 3 have been money.

Before and in between I've owned an LCP, a Pico, and very briefly a Taurus TCP. All had issues and none were close to being as shootable as the Kahr in my opinion.

I'm curious to try the new Taurus Spectrum. The specs look good but they're way behind in making them available. Same thing happened when the CW380 first came out.


UPDATE 8/31/17 - CW380 #4 came back quickly from Kahr with an "upgraded extractor" so I guess that was the problem with this recent batch. Anyway, I finally got to shoot it a couple days ago. MUCH BETTER. No jams or failures to feed at all, but it did lock back prematurely. I have 4 mags and had the problem at least once with each mag. I use the same mags in my other cw380 and never have this happen, so its not the mags. The problem diminished as the session went on. I quit after shooting a box, will clean, lube and try again. I hope the problem disappears by end of next session. If not, back she goes again.

Meantime if anyone has insight into what may cause a CW380 prematurely to lock back, NOT related to the magazine, I'd appreciate.

[berettabone]

It's ok if I get flamed, I expected it from the .380 crowd. Everyone seems to think that their scenario will be the same as everyone else. They also think that they can also run away. Last year, in my area, a guy was accosted at a park by a meth head. While charging the victim, he took 5 .380's before he got a hold of the victim and snapped his neck. I've never said that other firearms or calibers would knock anyone off their feet or down. What I am saying is that in this scenario, the .380 wasn't good enough, not even close dealing with a meth head. Someone even mentioned the fact that some people don't even know they are shot. I'll take my larger firearms, larger calibers and my chances with larger holes and more damage. Maybe a larger firearm would have saved his life by ending the situation that much sooner. Carry away.............

[dsk]

Slowburn: check the spring in the frame that engages the slide stop and make sure it's applying downward pressure.

Berettabone: meth heads, heroin addicts, and pychos high on PCP can be extremely difficult to bring down with just a handgun, regardless of caliber. If you don't hit them in the central nervous system they're likely to stay on their feet. Yes it's true that a .45 will improve your odds over a .380... I don't think any rational person would deny that. But as they say, a .45 won't do you much good if you decided it was too big and heavy to strap on for just a quick trip down to the grocery store for some milk. I also won't help you if you work in a place that doesn't recognize your Second Amendment rights and you're forced to either go unarmed or carry as discreetly as possible to avoid being found out and fired. Pocket .380s are the most popular carry guns out there for a simple reason: they're what most folks find they can have on them all the time regardless of circumstances. I personally would feel much safer if I were able to carry my Colt Commander everywhere seven days a week, or even my Taurus G2. Unfortunately that's simply not possible.

[berettabone]

I would have to disagree with you about the caliber. Larger calibers break arm bones, leg bones, have much more impact potential, and make much larger holes, which is much more important when dealing with dope heads. I agree, dopers are hard to bring down with any handgun. Why would you want to make your defense more difficult? If this poor guy with the .380 (that I mentioned that was killed) would have had a larger caliber firearm, he probably wouldn't have had to put all the shots to the central nervous system. These shots could have been hitting arms, legs, etc. and incapacitating him, so he wasn't able to snap the guys neck. So much more powerful for the average joe. I guess that's what makes me a bit different. I wouldn't decide that a .45 was too big or too heavy to strap on for just a quick trip to the store. To me, that's called carry laziness. Just because something is easier, or more convenient, doesn't make it better. Also, I wouldn't be employed by a company who doesn't recognize my 2nd Amendment rights. It must be very stressful to have to hide the fact that you carry from your employer. Too stressful for me. Work is stressful enough without having to hide something from an employer. You say that Pocket .380's are the most popular carry guns out there for a simple reason.......because people can have them all the time regardless of circumstances. I say it's called convenience, laziness, what ever you want to call it. They are giving up firepower, weight, and accuracy for ease of carry. They want the easiest, simplest, most convenient way to carry. I would venture a guess and say that 75% of these firearms are in a purse, fanny pack, bra holster, pocket, etc. In a really tough place to get at, especially if they have to hide it from their employer. Do you know what I hear the most, out of everything I hear about the .380 mouse gun. " Well, it's better than nothing at all." That's a sad scenario in my book. It's like having a 2# fire extinguisher in your hand when your house is on fire and saying, " Well, it's better then nothing." Really??????? I know I won't change mouse gun owner's minds. It's all about the convenience. It's just my opinion.............but it is something to think about. Maybe I don't worry about it. I live in an open carry state. I don't give 2 $#!t's if someone knows I am carrying. If they do, they'll know it's something larger than a mouse gun. Even with the advances in ammo these days, there is no doubt in MY mind, that a larger caliber/firearm will do a much better job, and increase your odds of surviving. Carry on.....................

[King Rat]

Statistically, most gun fights occur at very close distances. An encounter beyond the 7-10 yard range is about as likely as getting hit by lightning while falling off a cliff. Take LEO encounters out of the stats (because they often HAVE to enter the encounter, whereas civilians can simply retreat, observe, and report) and it is almost statistically immeasurable.

So I wholeheartedly agree with you. If you've got a gun that is reliable and fairly accurate at 10 yards, you've got yourself an EDC keeper.

Agree also witht to caliber. With today's advances, a .380 is more than viable for an EDC round. Caliber snobs will always call for bigger bullets, but the reality is that we're ALL dealing with compromised weapons. If we knew with absolute certainty that we were going to get into a gunfight on a particular day, we'd all carry a carbine…with a shotgun as backup. So opting for a pistol is always a compromise, and the ballistic differences amongst .380/9/40/45, while measurable, really vanish in terms of real-world effectiveness when you factor in multiple hits on target. So train, train, train, learn to hit center mass with multiple rounds when it counts. And, if age and physical conditions allow, practice shooting on the move and getting to concealment/cover, because no matter what you throw at your bad guy, getting shot in return will ruin your whole day.

Agree 100% with every thing you said Bosco. The comment from another poster "Do you know what I hear the most, out of everything I hear about the .380 mouse gun. " Well, it's better than nothing at all." That's a sad scenario in my book". Ok, that sounds like the old comments before all the advancements in the modern day 380. And these comments were actually more directed to the 22.cal or 32.cal. Some folks seem to want to live in the Past and not more forward. Of course, no one can predict all scenarios of where the monster may raise his head, but you can CCW to be practical. A high quality 380 Defense round at close range is deadly, I do not care how you cut it. And I would venture to say most attacks will be close range. Road Rage, walking to your car, even just walking your dog.
How many others have tired to carry big heavy guns, only to leave them at home? I would bet a lot.
The 380. pocktet gun is a great tool or weapon to have all the time. And if any bad guy thinks differently, he would be making a deadly mistake to under estimate the lethal cartridge. I have heard the same old comments for years about the deranged Meth head etc. Ok, I got it. But then no handgun will be ideal. And I doubt I will start carrying around a 12 ga. shotgun.

Instead of complaining that the 380. being under powered, a better use of energy would be to actually train more often. I am a firm believer in "Frequent, Moderate Training". I train /shoot at least once a week. And I train at home with BB/Pellet guns as well. Constantly improving on Point and shoot skills and fast drawing. Carrying around a large gun on my side or in my pants is not feasible for my life style, business environment, or practical in the vast majority of cases. It just is not going to happen. I feel very confident that I have a deadly firearm for most typical applications that may confront me on a every day basis. I can draw it fast, and I have confidence I can put in a series of deadly rounds into center mass.
I for one am thankful for the great concealment of the Pocket gun and for the constant improvement being made all the time in Defense Carry Ballistics of the 380. caliber. They will only get better as time moves on.

[bugs]

regardless of the caliber we carry, the takeaway from this discussion should be we all need to be proficient with the Mozambique Drill and be prepared to use it as the routine response in neutralizing the threat. it is part of my practice IDPA routine, but it is hard to master, especially while moving or on a charging threat.

NRA LIFER

IDPA BELEIVER

[dsk]

I have heard the same old comments for years about the deranged Meth head etc. Ok, I got it. But then no handgun will be ideal. And I doubt I will start carrying around a 12 ga. shotgun.

Just a side note, but back in the 1980s a neighbor a few blocks down was attacked by his own adult son who was high on something. The father managed to break away and grabbed his 12ga shotgun, and he shot his son with it. Instead the son managed to wrestle the shotgun out of his father's hands and beat him with it. Finally the police showed up and they managed to subdue him, but he continued to be a problem all the way to the hospital. My mom told me that the house basically had to be gutted to clean up all the blood and mess both the father and son left. When somebody is stoned out of his mind from hallucinogenic drugs he becomes an unstoppable killing machine, much like a real-life terminator. I'd hate to be carrying just a .380 if I ran into someone like that, but the truth is shot placement will be the only thing that saves your bacon, not simply packing the largest caliber. Even a meth-head or LCP-laced freak will drop if you put a .380 bullet right through his eye socket.

[Ikeo74]

You are right about no gun being ideal for a meth head. The chances of the average person ever meeting and having to deal with this kind of a problem is like winning the Power Ball 500 Million Dollar Jackpot, 1 in 292 Million. So in conclusion, there is no reason that a 380 ACP will not be a good self defense gun caliber. I feel safe when I carry mine. But I also have bigger guns for different occasions.

[dsk]

Rule #1 of gunfighting: Have a gun.

If you are able to conceal a .50 AE Desert Eagle on you in 90-degree weather, good for you. I can't.

[SlowBurn]

regardless of the caliber we carry, the takeaway from this discussion should be we all need to be proficient with the Mozambique Drill and be prepared to use it as the routine response in neutralizing the threat. it is part of my practice IDPA routine, but it is hard to master, especially while moving or on a charging threat.

NRA LIFER

IDPA BELEIVER

no problem for this guy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8QrWm3Acc0

[Ed M]

Meantime if anyone has insight into what may cause a CW380 prematurely to lock back, NOT related to the magazine, I'd appreciate.

Greg's video might have your answer....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50P7HCAATo

[dsk]

Also, I wouldn't be employed by a company who doesn't recognize my 2nd Amendment rights.

Unless you're self-employed or work in a gun store it's pretty hard to find a company these days that turns a blind eye to employees bringing weapons into the workplace. If you have a boss who is pro-2A and says "go ahead" you are very lucky. But every company my wife and I have ever worked for has given us a thick employee handbook with a section stating that weapons of any sort are prohibited on company property... even inside your car as long as it's in their parking lot. And we have worked for everything from retailers to the postal service to manufacturing to white-collar businesses. Of course disgruntled ex-employees are likely to ignore company policy, but apparently that's just too bad.

[SlowBurn]

Greg's video might have your answer....

Very likely. Just checked, the spring is somewhat loose. Now I need to find a No. 6 torx. Thanks so much Greg certainly is a treasure.

UPDATE Yep. Tightened the slide stop spring screw and blew through a box of FMJ with no hiccups. Next trip will experiment with different ammo and if it still checks out this one will be good to go.

I'm glad Kahr is installing a modified extractor. I have a feeling that's about 90% of the problems people have been having and most of us don't need to be trying to fix that ourselves.

[Ed M]

Glad that worked out for you, SlowBurn.

Over on a facebook Kahr group, there's a couple of Kahr employees that post from time to time. One says Kahr has a "new" procedure that is supposed to solve most all of the 380 feeding issues.

It involves "trimming" the extractor, and checking the chamber bore diameter. Some chambers need to be enlarged by a thousandth or so.

Looks like Kahr is watching these forums...

[yqtszhj]

Finished off another 50 flawless rounds in my cw380 today. It is a smooth shooter.

[vinnier6]

After 500 rds my Kahr CW380 is still very difficult to hand cycle, but operates flawlessly during actually firing of the firearm. Did a slight mod to the extractor lower tip to enable it to feed and eject any 380 ammo. Polished the feed ramp and the upper chamber. If I were to do it over again.....would probably buy the CM9. Ammo is cheaper seems to be easier to break in than the 380 firearms....NOT saying all of them are!!! Not much difference in size. Did I make a mistake buying the CW380?...not at all!! Got it on sale at Tombstone online for less than $210 .....there is nothing that can be found to say that is not a great deal on a very fine firearm.

I am about to own both, just ordered the cw380 on grab a gun...there is quite a bit difference in size of you ask ,e...I have been trying to pocket carry my cm9, but honestly it's just a tad to large and heavy to be a serious contender for the pocket...the cw380 should fit the bill perfectly

[mark7mod0]

I am about to own both, just ordered the cw380 on grab a gun...there is quite a bit difference in size of you ask ,e...I have been trying to pocket carry my cm9, but honestly it's just a tad to large and heavy to be a serious contender for the pocket...the cw380 should fit the bill perfectly

I bought the CW380 because for $210 I thought it would be a good throw on for a store run. I have never liked to pocket carry. I liked it, but to be honest I liked my Bersa Thunder better, the Kahr was just to small. Now operational wise it was very good once........ I spent a second mortgage worth of money buying 380 acp to break it in. The recommended 200 rounds did nothing for it. The 600+ count is where it began to loosen up. It is irrelevant now since I sold it and bought a CM9. For me the CM9 is the perfect CCW. The accuracy amazes me....on par with my much larger CZ and S&W pistols. The size is much better to fit my hand and it conceals very well.

[vinnier6]

Just took possession of my new cw380, and all I can say is wow!! This thing is ridiculously small...so small it makes my cm9 feel big...can't wait to get it to the range and run a few hundred rounds through it so I can get it into my pocket

[berettabone]

You are right about no gun being ideal for a meth head. The chances of the average person ever meeting and having to deal with this kind of a problem is like winning the Power Ball 500 Million Dollar Jackpot, 1 in 292 Million. So in conclusion, there is no reason that a 380 ACP will not be a good self defense gun caliber. I feel safe when I carry mine. But I also have bigger guns for different occasions. I guess it's also important where a person lives. I don't know where you live, but I see at least 3 or 4 meth heads walking down the street everyday. This situation is not out of the norm, and runs rampant in my town, along with alcoholics. Maybe now you understand why I don't/won't carry pea shooters.:o

[UNC1N17]

I too liked the size of the CW380, It just dissapeared in my front pocket as a backup gun. However on my first range trip my left hand is brusied slapping the slide back into battery after each shot. I have never owned a Karh before and I'm willing to give their CS a fair go at this as I really want to like this little backup. I guess I'm more accustomed to running true right out of the box. Time will tell, it's in Kahr's hands now. AS a side note, I read all the negitive reviews and was still willing to give it a shot, so in a way this one's on me.

[vinnier6]

I too liked the size of the CW380, It just dissapeared in my front pocket as a backup gun. However on my first range trip my left hand is brusied slapping the slide back into battery after each shot. I have never owned a Karh before and I'm willing to give their CS a fair go at this as I really want to like this little backup. I guess I'm more accustomed to running true right out of the box. Time will tell, it's in Kahr's hands now. AS a side note, I read all the negitive reviews and was still willing to give it a shot, so in a way this one's on me.
I am in the same boat, I to was willing to take a chance, I love the little thing, time will tell as I just got it and haven’t had a chance to get to the range

[wghargis]

About a month ago I bought a CW380; it's my first Kahr 380, but I also have a CM9. So far I've only put 100 rounds through it, but there have been no failures of any kind using both Winchester white box and Hornady Critical Defense. I also have a Colt Mustang XSP, and previously owned a Taurus TCP. Of all these, the Colt is the best shooting, with an extremely clean trigger, but it is slightly larger than the Kahr. The Kahr is for those times when I want to conceal a weapon in light weight clothing.

I'm please with the Kahr; no regrets.

[drw]

I have 900 rounds shot in my CW380. Most are my reloads with mixed brass. The only problems I have had are with cartridge brass marked CFL. They will not chamber. I also have found this pistol to be very accurate. I shoot at 50 feet steel plates and it does as good as my PM9 as far as accuracy on the plates.

[Ed M]

I have 900 rounds shot in my CW380. Most are my reloads with mixed brass. The only problems I have had are with cartridge brass marked CFL. They will not chamber.


GFL = Fiocchi (Giulio Fiocchi, Lecco).

No bueno in most Kahr 380s without modified extractors.

[LucaJones]

If you want a pocket .380 to double as a range gun get a Glock 42, SIG P238 or Colt Mustang. They're stout enough for the long haul, but you'll be paying the price of additional size and weight.
Considering the trade off between concealability and range performance, which of these pocket .380 options - Glock 42, SIG P238, or Colt Mustang - strikes the best balance for someone seeking both durability and manageable size?

[yqtszhj]

To me I think it depends on if you like single action or striker fired best. I have both in 9mm and for me it depends on my mood for the day.

my 9mm is the G43 and Sig P938. I think I do like shooting the G43 slightly better.

[Armybrat]

To me I think it depends on if you like single action or striker fired best. I have both in 9mm and for me it depends on my mood for the day.

my 9mm is the G43 and Sig P938. I think I do like shooting the G43 slightly better.
I would prefer my Colt.