Cannot get slide off P380 frame. Guide rod sticks out beyond muzzle. Help!

[XFlyboy]

Went to the range today with my four month old P380 which I have disassembled and reassembled many times. After shooting about 50 rounds, I got home and wanted to clean the gun, but this time I could not get the slide off of the frame. After some trial and error, I noticed that the recoil spring guide rod was protruding out in front of the slide with the slide at battery. It appears the guide rod is hung up on something. I tried grabbing the guide rod with a pliers and pulled and manipulated it a bit, but the guide rod remains stuck out and I cannot get the slide off the frame.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or ideas you experts have to offer. TIA!

[topgun1953]

See this thread, http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?30725-CW380-Guide-Rod-AGAIN!! . You may have a similar issue.

[gb6491]

Went to the range today with my four month old P380 which I have disassembled and reassembled many times. After shooting about 50 rounds, I got home and wanted to clean the gun, but this time I could not get the slide off of the frame. After some trial and error, I noticed that the recoil spring guide rod was protruding out in front of the slide with the slide at battery. It appears the guide rod is hung up on something. I tried grabbing the guide rod with a pliers and pulled and manipulated it a bit, but the guide rod remains stuck out and I cannot get the slide off the frame.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or ideas you experts have to offer. TIA!


Position your slide so that that the rear of it is even with the frame (wouldn't hurt to reset the the trigger).
Now, pull and hold the trigger to the rear of it's travel.
With the trigger held back, try removing the slide...you probably need to rock and twist it while doing so..a little force may also be needed
https://s29.postimg.org/c2itgwqpz/rock.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://s29.postimg.org/uw4mdwoxz/twist.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Regards,
Greg

[XFlyboy]

Thanks for pointing out that thread Topgun. 12 pages long will take me a while to get through, but I am already discouraged by what I see on page one. I am not going to try to modify the frame with a dremel tool while the gun is still under warranty. Before I force anything or break something, I am thinking now I should just send it back to Kahr for repair. Since even if I were able to fix it, what would keep it from happening again? I feel the gun is either damaged or defective. I am hopeful Kahr can tell me what the cause of the problem was, since I had previously fired about 300 uneventful rounds through this gun.

[XFlyboy]

Thanks for the post and pics Greg. I did give it one last try based on your instruction, but there is remarkably little wiggle room in this slide to play with. With the slide stop out and trigger pulled, the slide moves about a quarter inch forward of flush with the frame and then it hits a brick wall. There is absolutely no give whatsoever. See my post above. If someone has to put this gun in a vice and pound it with a hammer to break it free, I'd rather it be done at a service center where they will have the parts to repair the potential damage.

Thanks again,
Brian

[Bawanna]

I'd try tickling the trigger. LIke what Greg said but pull the trigger and release and maybe pull it again.
After many many take downs I still get the brick wall from time to time. Tickle the trigger and she'll come off.

I doubt there's anything wrong just a learning curve. But again, you do what your comfortable doing.

[gb6491]

Thanks for the post and pics Greg. I did give it one last try based on your instruction, but there is remarkably little wiggle room in this slide to play with. With the slide stop out and trigger pulled, the slide moves about a quarter inch forward of flush with the frame and then it hits a brick wall. There is absolutely no give whatsoever. See my post above. If someone has to put this gun in a vice and pound it with a hammer to break it free, I'd rather it be done at a service center where they will have the parts to repair the potential damage.

Thanks again,
Brian
Brian,
Hang in there!

There's not much the slide can hang up on, so let's look at those.

Barrel: with the slide stop in and the pistol in battery, make sure the barrel is is up to it's full height. At this point, the lower lug should clear the frame and the barrel hood should have it positioned correctly to remove the slide. Note: with the pin out, when you release the striker the barrel may drop slightly, but it should cam back up when you move the slide forward (the front of the lower leg is angled enough to do this when it comes into contact with the frame).
https://s19.postimg.org/k5j5ukq0z/trup.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Recoil spring and guide rod: Normally these should not interfere with removal of the slide. As you state your guide rod is sticking past the front of the slide, that suggests to me that the spring and rod maybe resting ahead of it position in the frame or a spring has slipped over the head of the guide rod. The first instance should not interfere with removing the slide (unless it prevents you from moving the slide far enough to reset the trigger). In the second case, I guess it would be possible for the open end of the spring to hang up on the frame in a way to make the slide difficult to remove. The only solution I can think of for this is to force the slide off.

Cocking cam: the cam must be positioned with the cocking lobe down. The proper way to do this is to reset the trigger, then pull and hold the trigger back. This is usually done by cycling the pistol before disassembly, but it can also be done by just pulling the slide to the rear until you hear a click (about .5" to .75" slide travel). What this does is release the striker so it is ahead of the cocking cam and holding it down allows the back plate of the slide to clear the cocking cam as you move the slide forward.
My P380 resets the trigger at about this point:
https://s19.postimg.org/fkwzfn6bn/trreset.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
If you can get to this point, the cocking cam should not be causing any issues with removing the slide.
https://s19.postimg.org/eexkul7er/trgolden_copy.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/gw9c1urb3/)
On the remote chance that the cam's striker block lobe is interfering, you can release the trigger at this point and the cam should be free to move as you push the slide forward. If you need extra pressure at this point, I finding using the thumb of my off slide hand helps:
https://s19.postimg.org/ngc4875c3/trextra.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

What I would like to suggest is this:
Start over.
Ignore the guide rod for the moment. I don't think much can be done about it right now (you know some photos of it might be a help).
Put the slide stop back in and reset the trigger.
Remove the stop.
Get yourself a good overhand grip on the slide and a firm grip on the frame, apply force in opposing directions and pull the trigger. Hopefully this will pop the slide off for you:
https://s19.postimg.org/nnzr4pgar/trgrip_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Regards,
Greg

[TheLastDaze]

love your detailed pics Greg always top notch👍

[XFlyboy]

Greg,

Third try's a charm! I got the slide off but not the way you described above. I did give it another try and I guess I applied at least 50 pounds of force with both hands and the slide would not budge. Then I noticed with my gun silhouetted against the bright screen of my LCD TV, that the recoil springs were not parallel to the barrel. If you hold it up against a light, you can see some daylight between the front of the slide and the frame. And what you should see is the top of the recoil springs flush against the barrel. With my gun, it appeared that the heel of the guide rod had dropped down a bit somehow, so that the recoil springs angled downward and away from the barrel progressing from front to back. So I took a piers and was able to pull on the front of the guide rod and manipulate it back into the proper position so that the recoil springs were visibly parallel to the slide again, and the slide came right off as it should.

The problem now is that when I reassemble the gun I have exactly the same problem all over again. The guide rod/recoil spring assembly gets hung up on the frame somehow and protrudes forward a quarter inch when fully assembled. And then the heel of the guide rod invariably drops down again making it impossible to remove the slide without being manipulated with the pliers. I've done this now three or four times. Since the slide, recoil springs and guide rod all seem normal, I have to assume the problem is with the frame. I can see the spot in the frame below the metal rails where the heel of the guide rod is supposed to sit, and for some reason my guide rod is not able to get there. If I had to guess, I would say the frame is warped somehow.

So unless I am missing something, I am now more inclined than ever to send it back to Kahr for repair/replacement. I desperately want to like this gun and to be able to trust it for concealed carry. But so far, it has been one problem after another.

Thanks again,
Brian

P.S. I would attach some photos but can't figure out how to do it on this site.

[gb6491]

Greg,

Third try's a charm! I got the slide off but not the way you described above. I did give it another try and I guess I applied at least 50 pounds of force with both hands and the slide would not budge. Then I noticed with my gun silhouetted against the bright screen of my LCD TV, that the recoil springs were not parallel to the barrel. If you hold it up against a light, you can see some daylight between the front of the slide and the frame. And what you should see is the top of the recoil springs flush against the barrel. With my gun, it appeared that the heel of the guide rod had dropped down a bit somehow, so that the recoil springs angled downward and away from the barrel progressing from front to back. So I took a piers and was able to pull on the front of the guide rod and manipulate it back into the proper position so that the recoil springs were visibly parallel to the slide again, and the slide came right off as it should.

The problem now is that when I reassemble the gun I have exactly the same problem all over again. The guide rod/recoil spring assembly gets hung up on the frame somehow and protrudes forward a quarter inch when fully assembled. And then the heel of the guide rod invariably drops down again making it impossible to remove the slide without being manipulated with the pliers. I've done this now three or four times. Since the slide, recoil springs and guide rod all seem normal, I have to assume the problem is with the frame. I can see the spot in the frame below the metal rails where the heel of the guide rod is supposed to sit, and for some reason my guide rod is not able to get there. If I had to guess, I would say the frame is warped somehow.

So unless I am missing something, I am now more inclined than ever to send it back to Kahr for repair/replacement. I desperately want to like this gun and to be able to trust it for concealed carry. But so far, it has been one problem after another.

Thanks again,
Brian

P.S. I would attach some photos but can't figure out how to do it on this site.
Well done Brian, it's good to read that you figured out a way to get the slide off. I'll definitely try to file that away for future reference:typing:

The problem you seem to be having with the guide rod not fitting easily into it's seat pretty much parallels this recent discussion:http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?30665-CW380-Guide-Rod-Sticks-Juts-Out-the-Front

Looking back at that now, I see the OP was also having a hard time taking his pistol apart. My apologies for not bringing that up here.
I posted some photos on page two of that thread, but also see now something that might have been helpful there (maybe here as well).
I don't have any issues with my P380 in regards to how the guide rod seats in the frame. What I noticed in the photos I posted is that the leading edges of that pocket the rod seats in are beveled on my gun. I don't think it's too much of a reach to think that bevel might aid installation of the guide rod while also making the edge less likely to deform causing issues during disassembly.
Here's one of those photos with arrows added to point at the spots where the bevel is visible:
https://s19.postimg.org/qvvi9n4qr/taper_copy.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Speaking of photos, you have to have made 30 posts before you can use the attachment feature on this board. Otherwise, images need to be hosted off site and linked here. Posting the images using BB code and the images url works well: image url
I've been using https://postimages.org of late and like it. They even provide a properly coded hotlink you can just copy and paste here.

TheLastDaze,
Thank you for the kudos...very much appreciated:)

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I'm researching and checked out postimage. I think it's actually postimages.org but postimage brings up the sight.

Have to look some more. Hoping it stores my pictures so I can access them from anyplace and post them kind of like that leaky bucket place used to do.
Wish they were members here, I'd ban them.

[XFlyboy]

Thanks for the thread Greg. That is precisely the problem I am having. The frame of the gun has become deformed so that the guide rod does not seat properly. In the picture above, my guide rod stops at the tips of the green arrows and will go no further. I imagine I could hit it with a dremel tool as others have, but i would rather keep my warranty intact so I will send back to Kahr. I believe the cause of the problem was the two boxes of Underwood +P 1200 fps ammo I fired last weekend. It packed a noticeable punch even compared to other +P ammo I have fired previously which was closer to 1000 fps (Precision One). Lesson learned.


Cheers,
Brian

[gb6491]

I'm researching and checked out postimage. I think it's actually postimages.org but postimage brings up the sight.

Have to look some more. Hoping it stores my pictures so I can access them from anyplace and post them kind of like that leaky bucket place used to do.
Wish they were members here, I'd ban them.
You are correct sir, it is https://postimages.org.
I will correct my previous post straight away:)
regards,
Greg

[topgun1953]

I believe the cause of the problem was the two boxes of Underwood +P 1200 fps ammo I fired last weekend. It packed a noticeable punch even compared to other +P ammo I have fired previously which was closer to 1000 fps (Precision One). Lesson learned.

I had just used Underwood XP and XD +P when I developed the problem. They do pack a punch! I carry non +P XD, now. They're still pretty hot. Let us know what Kahr says!

[XFlyboy]

I had just used Underwood XP and XD +P when I developed the problem. They do pack a punch! I carry non +P XD, now. They're still pretty hot. Let us know what Kahr says!

Hi all!

Got my P380 back from Kahr a couple of days ago and wanted to report back my experience to the forum. I should mention that when I sent the gun in, I complained about the guide rod protruding from the frame, but also reported the occasional failures to feed and failures to return to battery even after the 200 round break-in period. Kahr returned the firearm with a Technical Service Work Sheet reporting "Actions Taken: INSPECTED, DEBURRED FRAME, POLISHED EXTRACTOR, TESTED OK."

On close inspection, it looks like they went after the channel in the frame with a dremel tool of some sort similar to what others have reported doing on this site. I haven't been to the range yet, but just dry firing in my home the gun functions normally but I notice that the trigger seems to function much more smoothly. Maybe the techs at Kahr did more than they admitted to on the Work Sheet.

My only question now is when I get back to range, do I continue to fire the +P ammo that I think caused the problem, or stick with the standard ammo? My instinct says that I should continue to challenge the gun and stress it out as much as possible by shooting the +P while it is still under warranty. I should mention that Kahr picked up the tab on shipping both ways so sending it back didn't cost me a dime, just the lack of use of the firearm for a couple of weeks.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

[dsk]

I recently had to deburr my frame like others have done. My concern is just how many times I'm going to need to do this, and more importantly how many more deburrings the frame can take before it becomes unrepairable. BTW I have never used any sort of high-power ammo, just basic practice FMJ and Critical Defense.

[texasm77]

I have seen more than one Kahr at the range with the recoil spring installed backwards. Same symptoms usually after the pistol has been field stipped and then fired. Scary looking and everyone thinks they are going to break something. I have never broken the slide or frame pulling with force necessary to remove the slide. Worse case scenario was one of my friends had to buy a new recoil spring that a previous owner shortened. Have no clue why. Read the manual, watch the video, it's easy to out it on backwards.