CW380--Let's Try This Again

[boscobarbell]

After a trip back to Kahr for some TLC to remedy a sticky slide and some light strikes, I finally got my CW380 back to the range today to check out the performance.

I started with a few uneventful magazines of Blazer FMJ round ammo, enough to remind me of how great this pistol is when it works…smooth, light trigger, good sights, nice feel in the hand, minimal recoil. When I moved on to SD ammo, though, things got interesting again.

First up was the Underwood XTP, which, once again, my pistol DOES NOT LIKE. I disregarded that result, as it's a type of ammo I will simply avoid in the future. Next up was Hornady Critical Defense, which for the most part was smooth sailing. "For the most part" does not mean 100%, unfortunately. On a few occasions, I had a weird failure to cycle…the striker failed to ignite the cartridge, but a small "wiggle" of the slide got the striker to reset and the round to fully seat, at which point the cartridge would fire. I'm almost certain that the issue is a failure to completely feed, wherein the round rides up but does not fully seat. Then again, I could be wrong. In retrospect, I should have ejected the round to see if there was a primer strike…I'll do that next week when I get it back to the range.

I ended the range visit by shooting Hornady XTP (because I'd run out of Critical Defense) and some more Blazer. The last 20 or so rounds were fine, so I'm hoping that we've gotten past the rough spots.

So, for a total of 80 or so rounds, I had 3-4 fails (discounting the Underwood, which is a lost cause). Not bad, but still not reliable enough for EDC.

After talking to a friend at my LGS, I had a crazy impulse come over me, and I purchased a new Glock 42 in Flat Dark Earth. It is far larger than the Kahr, so it's not intended as a replacement. It will, however, give me a good comparison shooter when I take the CW380 out again next week. I'll be stocking up on more Hornady XTP and Critical Defense, and may throw in some Sig V Crown and Hydra Shoks for variety's sake. This is make-or-break time for the Kahr, now. It will either end up on my hip, back to Kahr for another tweak, or at my LGS on consignment.

p.s. I took my Pico along this time for comparison. It's trigger is not as nice as the Kahr's, although it has improved, and it is a bit tougher to shoot with its high bore axis and skinny grip (it wants to wiggle around a bit). But, dang, that pistol is like Old Faithful. Any ammo I throw at it, FMJ or HP, mild or hot, and it cycles it like a champ. Amazing.

[dsk]

A local gun shop has a CW380 in stock for $249. I would be tempted if it wasn't for the possibility that I'd end up with another high-maintenance b**** like my P380. Normally I try to buy duplicates of my defense guns so I will always have a backup in case one goes down, but in the case of the Kahr I'm afraid to. If only Kahr would realize they'd have a winner in the house if only they'd go and re-design this pistol to correct its flaws. Ruger wasn't bashful about improving the LCP, and even Glock (quietly) made improvements to the G42, yet Kahr still seems to act like there's nothing wrong with its guns and that the buyers simply needs to break them in a little more. The fact that guns go back to them and are often returned with the same issues speaks volumes.

[berettabone]

:popcorn:

[Ikeo74]

I bought a Remington RM 380 and didn't look back! After over 200 shots fired I haven't had the first malfunction. What does that tell you?

[boscobarbell]

I bought a Remington RM 380 and didn't look back! After over 200 shots fired I haven't had the first malfunction. What does that tell you?

Same! Love, love, love that gun. I just wish the sights were a bit better…I know it's a belly gun, but my "what if" LEO sense tells me it's always better to have decent sights (especially night sights) and never need them. If Remington made a model with night sights, for this buyer almost no price would be too high.

Have you become proficient at rapid-firing the Remington? The trigger IS a bit long…albeit very smooth, and much lighter than when I bought it…so double-taps might be a challenge. The commercial range I use disallows rapid fire, so I'll have to get to my buddy's "wilderness range" to give it a try.

[dsk]

I've said this many times before, but the reliability of mine improved significantly once I replaced the magazine springs and followers with MagGuts kits. I haven't had any misfeeds since.

[Ikeo74]

I've said this many times before, but the reliability of mine improved significantly once I replaced the magazine springs and followers with MagGuts kits. I haven't had any misfeeds since.

I have been saying this for several years now, If Kahr would pre-stress the recoil springs and the magazine springs, most of these problems would go away. The alternate would be to just use weaker springs, but if they did that the useful life of the springs would be shortened. But that is just my opinion and if they did either one of the spring enhancements their sales would go up and complaints would go down..

[mark7mod0]

I have been saying this for several years now, If Kahr would pre-stress the recoil springs and the magazine springs, most of these problems would go away. The alternate would be to just use weaker springs, but if they did that the useful life of the springs would be shortened. But that is just my opinion and if they did either one of the spring enhancements their sales would go up and complaints would go down..

This spring issue has me about ready to fold my hand on the CW 380, call a misdeal on the CM9 I am thinking about and just go to a different firearm altogether. After almost 800 rds thru the CW 380 cycling the slide countless times at night and even taking the recoil spring assy off and compressing the springs individually it is still a virtual nightmare trying to hand cycle it. A gun should NOT be this difficult to break in. Have had several small 380 firearms and none of them were this much of a PITA to use. To even lock the slide back it is a chore ....turn the gun sideways and pull/push/kick/scream and cuss like hell to get it in position to lock. If I did not like the size, had bought extra mags and a nice holster and it was not so darn accurate, it would be in a pawn shop by now!!

[dsk]

Pre-stressing springs in the Kahr won't help. When I put in a new recoil spring set it's very difficult to get the gun reassembled and the slide is very stiff, but within 500 rounds the springs are so weak the slide won't even close all the way with much force. The OEM springs in all five magazines I have wouldn't lock the slide open after a month of being left loaded. The springs in the MagGuts kits by comparison are still fine after two years of use. People tell me that Wolff makes the springs for Kahr, but given how crappy they are I have my doubts. I really wish Kahr would re-engineer the P/CW380 to incorporate a captive recoil spring assembly like Glock does with the G42. Either that or go with flat wire springs.

[Ikeo74]

For the cost of 800 bullets in 380 ACP you could have bought another holster and magazines for a different brand gun. I have 2 Kahrs in 9mm that work great but I would never buy a Kahr 380 until they get one that works 100% out of the box and I think that is several years down the line. So I have jumped ship for a 380.

[mark7mod0]

For the cost of 800 bullets in 380 ACP you could have bought another holster and magazines for a different brand gun. I have 2 Kahrs in 9mm that work great but I would never buy a Kahr 380 until they get one that works 100% out of the box and I think that is several years down the line. So I have jumped ship for a 380.

Like I said I have had several 380s...TCP738, Hi Point CF-380, Ruger LCP and a Bersa Thunder, so I thought a Kahr with its reputation would be a steal when I found the CW 380 on sale at Tombstone Tactical for $209.79. Like you said ......the cost of 800 rds of 380 ammo, about 40 Pwr"Ball SD rounds (when I have several hundred rounds of 9mm already) I could have gotten the CM9 on sale at RuralKing for $279 and had a better deal!!!

[Ed M]

A lot of speculation as to why some Kahr 380s don't run 100%, but how does one explain the ones that do?

My first CW380 will get to 1500 rounds this weekend - all on the original recoil springs. It hasn't gotten any easier to rack the slide at all, and I have a low round count (300) CW380 to compare it to.

At some point - I'll replace the recoil springs "just because". Probably at the 2000 round mark, but there's zero indications right now that its necessary.

It is possible to get a Kahr 380 that runs 100% out of the box (not counting the Fiocchi/Perfecta thing). If my Sister's LCP II "experience" doesn't pan out, I'll be getting CW380 #3. Good karma here in Kahrville.

[boscobarbell]

I've said this many times before, but the reliability of mine improved significantly once I replaced the magazine springs and followers with MagGuts kits. I haven't had any misfeeds since.

That's what I've got in mine…I wanted to give it the best chance to succeed from the get-go.

[mark7mod0]

Don't get me wrong....after doing the extractor mod, the operation is outstanding. If, a jam would occur...well there would be my problem. Still looking for a good deal on a CM9, if I find one I'll buy it and sell the CM380 because I actually do like the Kahr brand.

[SlowBurn]

For the cost of 800 bullets in 380 ACP you could have bought another holster and magazines for a different brand gun. I have 2 Kahrs in 9mm that work great but I would never buy a Kahr 380 until they get one that works 100% out of the box and I think that is several years down the line. So I have jumped ship for a 380.

I'll shoot anyway, so I don't count the rounds shot through the one that's had a problem as a loss. Actually its not a bad idea to get practice clearing malfunctions. I'm not going to carry it until its 100% but range time/expense is about the same. In the meantime I have another one to carry.

Of course, if were my only carry pistol I'd be frustrated with the delay.

[DavidR]

I'll shoot anyway, so I don't count the rounds shot through the one that's had a problem as a loss. Actually its not a bad idea to get practice clearing malfunctions. I'm not going to carry it until its 100% but range time/expense is about the same. In the meantime I have another one to carry.

Of course, if were my only carry pistol I'd be frustrated with the delay.

I agree with this. I put a lot of rounds through a CW380 and a Sig P290RS that didn't work out but enjoyed the shooting nonetheless.


Dave

[dsk]

A lot of speculation as to why some Kahr 380s don't run 100%, but how does one explain the ones that do?


Statistically speaking, enough of them do that Kahr isn't worried about it. Also, a lot of them are fired maybe 200 rounds then put away or only carried. Heck, you and I both know that there are people out there who carry guns they've never even fired!

Just a quick rundown for folks with new Kahrs on how to make one reliable enough for defense:

1. Do a complete cleaning and lube before anything else. If you find any burrs or sharp edges on the rails remove them with a needle file or emery paper.
2. Lock the slide open and leave it that way for a day or two before you go to the range.
3. Check your extractor and modify it as per the sticky thread in this section.
4. Invest in Mag-Guts kits for the magazines and a Lakeline striker.
5. Purchase extra recoil and striker springs, and plan on replacing them every 1,000 rounds.
6. Avoid cheap underpowered ammo, WWB, Fiocchi or anything with a flat bullet nose.
7. Once you find ammo that it likes, stick with it and keep your gun clean and well-lubed. Kahr .380s definitely do not like being run dirty or dry. When cleaning pay particular attention to the striker channel and extractor groove.

If you do all of that there's a 90% chance your Kahr .380 will run reliably. It sounds like a lot of time, money and energy just to make it work, but if you're patient and successful you'll have a tiny mighty-mouse that shoots like a full-sized service pistol.

[mark7mod0]

OK, one problem solved, now which one do I buy? Sold the CW380 to my neighbor this morning. He liked the size and said it is exactly what he wanted to throw in the center console of his car. Now CM9 or CW9?? Why does the CM9 have a different recoil assembly than the CT or CW? I just made a decision, ordered the CM9093HM CM9 Stainless Steel Slide comes with Holster and 2 Magazines......what I should have ordered to begin with!!

[JethrosDad]

Nice Mark I think you'll like the CM9. I have MK9 which is similar in size and is pleasure to shoot. I like carrying the 6 round mags for it. Flat base plate in the gun and the extra mag with the Pierce pinky grip extension.

[boscobarbell]

ANOTHER UPDATE:

I purchased a Glock 42 last week, and finally got it out to the range for a test run. Decided, last minute, to throw my CW380 in my range bag, too.

Long story short, most of my time was taken up getting accustomed to the Glock, but I did manage to put a few magazines of Blazer FMJ through the Kahr. Unlike my last time out, this session was drama-free. So either we're making progress here, or my Kahr just really prefers FMJ. If the latter is the case, I'll need to investigate which FMJ rounds make viable carry ammo. Sadly, I know Fiocchi is a no-go for most CW380s, but I'm sure there are other good options out there.

[King Rat]

Fiocchi "Extrema" defense load works perfectly in my Kahr. Also it is a top rated round by "Shooting the Bull". AOL is shorter than other Fiocchi range ammo.

[boscobarbell]

Fiocchi "Extrema" defense load works perfectly in my Kahr. Also it is a top rated round by "Shooting the Bull". AOL is shorter than other Fiocchi range ammo.

I'm afraid that the XTP bullet won't do well in my CW380, based on past experience.

[dsk]

Funny you shot a G42 and your Kahr at the same time, because that's what I did today as well. I shot up my old carry ammo (Hornady CD) in the Kahr and it worked fine. I also shot another 50 rounds of PPU and it worked perfectly. That's been the way with my Kahr over 4+ years of ownership... it'll run flawlessly for awhile, then just when you think it's finally GTG it suddenly trips and falls flat on its face again with another strange issue. Its been about 400 rounds since my last problem, so who knows... maybe I'm finally out of the woods at last? :p

[boscobarbell]

Funny you shot a G42 and your Kahr at the same time, because that's what I did today as well. I shot up my old carry ammo (Hornady CD) in the Kahr and it worked fine. I also shot another 50 rounds of PPU and it worked perfectly. That's been the way with my Kahr over 4+ years of ownership... it'll run flawlessly for awhile, then just when you think it's finally GTG it suddenly trips and falls flat on its face again with another strange issue. Its been about 400 rounds since my last problem, so who knows... maybe I'm finally out of the woods at last? :p

Good to hear about your Kahr.

What did you think about the G42? I know it's early in the game, but…I think I'm in love. Like, head over heels. In the end, it may not matter how my Kahr does after all.

[dsk]

My G42 has been a solid performer since Day One. I did have the issue of the slide locking open prematurely, but I fixed it myself by modifying the slide stop lever. New G42s have an upgraded slide stop lever and modified mags as well (marked 03 on the bottom). Mine so far has fed everything I've put through it, including the dreaded Fiocchi FMJ. I did add MagGuts kits to all of my mags just like I did the Kahr to add an extra round of capacity, but it wasn't necessary from a reliability standpoint (my Kahr wasn't reliable until I added the MagGuts kits). My one and only complaint is that I keep shooting to the left with it, but from what I hear that is a universal gripe with Glocks and their factory triggers.

Unfortunately the G42 doesn't disappear in the front pocket of my shorts like the Kahr does, which is why the latter is still hanging around.

[boscobarbell]

I just checked, and I have the "3" magazines, also. I just bought 2 ETS magazines, which are 7 rounders, flush fit, and crazy cheap. They get good reviews, and are cheaper thank the Magguts kits. If they aren't reliable, at least they'll make good range mags.

I shot dead center with mine, although my group was an oblong the long way on the target because those lousy Glock sights drive me crazy. I already bought a set of XS Big Dot, which I should have installed by late next week. Does yours have the newer trigger? I hated the G42 when I tried them after they first came out, but the updated connector really improves things (I was set to buy/install a Ghost connector, which I have on my G27, but now I feel no need).

I rarely pocket carry, and then I've already got a Pico for that…or a P32 or Seecamp if I feel comfortable going with a .32 that particular day. Most days I IWB carry, and I think the difference between the G42 and CW380 seem minuscule at this point.

Time will tell, but with my recent purchases of the G27, Kimber Solo, and G42, my Kahrs may be endangered species.

[King Rat]

I just checked, and I have the "3" magazines, also. I just bought 2 ETS magazines, which are 7 rounders, flush fit, and crazy cheap. They get good reviews, and are cheaper thank the Magguts kits. If they aren't reliable, at least they'll make good range mags.

I shot dead center with mine, although my group was an oblong the long way on the target because those lousy Glock sights drive me crazy. I already bought a set of XS Big Dot, which I should have installed by late next week. Does yours have the newer trigger? I hated the G42 when I tried them after they first came out, but the updated connector really improves things (I was set to buy/install a Ghost connector, which I have on my G27, but now I feel no need).

I rarely pocket carry, and then I've already got a Pico for that…or a P32 or Seecamp if I feel comfortable going with a .32 that particular day. Most days I IWB carry, and I think the difference between the G42 and CW380 seem minuscule at this point.

Time will tell, but with my recent purchases of the G27, Kimber Solo, and G42, my Kahrs may be endangered species.

Bosco, how do you like your Seecamp?

[dsk]

Does yours have the newer trigger? I hated the G42 when I tried them after they first came out, but the updated connector really improves things (I was set to buy/install a Ghost connector, which I have on my G27, but now I feel no need).

Mine is an earlier one with the heavy trigger, but I'm leaving it that way. It's a pocket gun, not a 50-yard wonder and I'd rather have added assurance that I won't end up shooting off something I might need later.

[boscobarbell]

Mine is an earlier one with the heavy trigger, but I'm leaving it that way. It's a pocket gun, not a 50-yard wonder and I'd rather have added assurance that I won't end up shooting off something I might need later.

Good point. If I pocket carried, I'd be inclined to look at things the same way.

[JethrosDad]

Nice Price or Crackpipe?

So looking for a pocket .380 and of course looking at a Kahr. My LGS just got in a used P380 (not sure of build date) stainless slide with night sights. has original case, paperwork, and 2 mags with an asking price of $399. I know that with the P series price drop I've seen them on gunprodeals for $365 shipped +25 transfer free puts me at $390 for a NEW P380 (but without night sights).

I am considering selling my Makarov as I have not been carrying it, or shooting it much over the past 6 months. Which of these options would you chose?

1. Sell Makarov and get used P380
2. Sell Makarov and get new P380
3. Keep Makarov and get new P380 :p

Thanks!

[boscobarbell]

Bosco, how do you like your Seecamp?

Love it. It's a little jewel of a pistol and totally reliable.

HOWEVER...while mine functions flawlessly with all the recommended ammo, those are pretty tepid rounds in terms of SD performance. Mine, unlike many others, won't cycle the Underwood Extreme Cavitator, which I believe is a game-changer in the .32. I've contacted Underwood, and they are working with Seecamp to make some changes to ensure that their ammo functions with ALL Seecamp pistols. Until such time, though, it's a great little gun that is really marginal for self defense.

[dsk]

Nice Price or Crackpipe?

So looking for a pocket .380 and of course looking at a Kahr. My LGS just got in a used P380 (not sure of build date) stainless slide with night sights. has original case, paperwork, and 2 mags with an asking price of $399. I know that with the P series price drop I've seen them on gunprodeals for $365 shipped +25 transfer free puts me at $390 for a NEW P380 (but without night sights).

I am considering selling my Makarov as I have not been carrying it, or shooting it much over the past 6 months. Which of these options would you chose?

1. Sell Makarov and get used P380
2. Sell Makarov and get new P380
3. Keep Makarov and get new P380 :p

Thanks!

Don't waste your time with a P380... get a CW380 instead. You can find them as low as $249 brand new, even though they don't have night sights (which you really don't need on a "get off me" gun anyway). There is absolutely nothing a P380 does that justifies the huge price difference over a CW380.

[markman]

Tombstone Tactical CW380 or CT380, $209.79 with free shipping.
https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/kahr-arms/cw3833-cw380-pistol-380acp-2.58in-6rd-stainless/
(https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/kahr-arms/cw3833-cw380-pistol-380acp-2.58in-6rd-stainless/)https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/kahr-arms/ct3833-ct-380-pistol-380-acp-3in-7rd-two-tone/