A little scenario question

[Bawanna]

This has been asked at least a million times so here it is for a million and one. It's slow and small around here lately. Need to liven it up somehow.

Here's the scenario.

Unlike every other day of your life this morning you wake up and you know today you will be in a life or death fight for survival. Either yourself or loved ones in danger.
You don't know when or where but you know for sure it's happening today. Staying home and forting up is not an option.

The obvious choice of a rifle is not on the menu.

What gun and caliber to you wear for the occasion.? Extra mags, different carry position, different ammo just for todays event?
Back up gun?

Be honest and keep it civil.

I'll hold my own answer so I don't impact the responses.

[yqtszhj]

Carry that day will be my CZ P-09. 19 round 9mm mag with +2 extended baseplate, for 21+1 rounds of federal 124 gr. HST. In 1,500 rounds its never had a failure and its soft shooting. DA is not bad and SA is lite and smooth as butter. Oh, it sports a crimson trace rail master for the heck of it already.

I'll alternate from appendix carry when standing or walking to 3 o'clock when sitting. Might carry a spare 21 round reload mag.

Don't care if it prints cause I have a carry permit and open carry is legal anyway.

Thats my thought at the moment anyway. Its the one on the bottom.

https://postimg.org/image/k8wbrza3p/https://s26.postimg.org/6f7z2xhih/IMG_8323_1.jpg

[JethrosDad]

I would have Glock 17 on strong side loaded with critical duty +p with backup 33 round stick mag.

Kel-Tec .380 on the ankle and Kahr p380 in weak side rear pocket. Both of those loaded with Fiocchi extrema.

Not too much different than my EDC. Always have one in the back pocket and my CW9 IWB. Just trade that in for the G17 for more capacity


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[ripley16]

If I knew a fight was imminent I'd grab one of my HKs. Probably the USP, one of the best guns ever made IMHO. A couple extra mags I suppose. My Pico in my pocket too.

[Ed M]

Been there, done that.

Back then, I didn't have a choice. Today, I do. Dance with the one that brought ya.

M9 on the hip, with 2 extra mags, all loaded with Federal HST 147gr. No ball ammo.

CW380 in my pocket, as usual.


http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15038&stc=1

[Ken L]

In my mind there isn't a difference between your scenario and every day, because every day that I carry I'm telling myself "this could be the day". So I'd step out the door with my EDC stuff; CW40 IWB with an extra magazine, Kershaw automatic, Kershaw flipper or Spyderco Tenacious in my right front pocket, and my cell phone to call 911. It's how I prepare and muscle memory that's most important to me.

[Bawanna]

Exactly my thought Ken. Today could be the day. Create this scenario and all the mouse guns stay home, IWB or OWB is king and no mention of pocket carry.
Extra Hi Cap mags, large frame guns.

Why should any day be different.

Why should a quick trip to the convenience store be any different than a evening out.

[kenemoore]

I would have my normal EDC, which currently is a CZ-PCR, with one extra mag, and a S&W Model 60 in my front pocket. I usually carry a PM9 in my pocket, but all my pockets have holes in them from the rear sight, so I switched to the J-frame for abit.

[berettabone]

I'll mention pocket carry:p:p......HK P2000SK with 180 gr. HST's OWB kydex holster.........Kahr MK9 in POCKET, with 147 HST's..............I don't need any more stinking mags:o

[ltxi]

Easy answer to this one.....

Colt LW Officers ACP. Custom built by me for me over 20 years ago, this familiar tool functions as natural/instinctive extension of me. Carry IWB 'cause that's where it always rides. Ammunition...no change there either. In this case I'd prolly might add an offside double mag pouch and my Sig P238 in a hip pocket...neither of which I would normally carry.

[ltxi]

Exactly my thought Ken. Today could be the day. Create this scenario and all the mouse guns stay home, IWB or OWB is king and no mention of pocket carry.
Extra Hi Cap mags, large frame guns.

Why should any day be different.

Why should a quick trip to the convenience store be any different than a evening out.

Because...to my mind it in reality is. I suit up differently depending on where, when, dress, and weather. Without an unusual extant threat, intuitive or otherwise, my u&c these days range from 1911 down to an NAA Mini, depending.

[jeepster09]

My new love is my Sig M11A1 with it's 16 rounds of plus p and spare mag. Along with my appendix carry 938.

[GLOCKROCKER]

Overkill?
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15040&stc=1

[SlowBurn]

An M1. I know you said no rifles. I mean this one
15041

[yqtszhj]

... and all the mouse guns stay home, IWB or OWB is king and no mention of pocket carry.
Extra Hi Cap mags, large frame guns.

Why should any day be different.

Why should a quick trip to the convenience store be any different than a evening out.

Darn, now you have me thinking.....

[Ed M]

Every day IS different.

A prolonged gunfight is extremely unlikely. Unlike LEO's that have to stay engaged, your needs are to disengage (safely) ASAP.

Being armed to handle every situation you could ever encounter is just not possible. You play the odds to whatever level you're comfortable with.

That's just reality.

[Barth]

Had to think about that for a minute.
I mean really, really, really KNOWING you're going in harm's way?
Mmmmmm
I'd start with my Bianchi IIIa vest.
Then strap on identical twin Hk P2000 357 guns with a P2000SK 357 bug.
And finally add icing on the cake - Hk SP5K with a folding brace and mags, mags, mags...

Sounds more like a new addition to the Resident Evil series - LOL!

[CPTKILLER]

Normally my EDC is a S&W Model 60 Pro and a Kahr MK9 also.

In times of higher risk, I go the H&K P30SK or my CZ P01 or my FN FiveSeven.

[dustnchips]

I know this senerrio does not allow, but the answer is to not go. My GF and I were headed out one time and she asked me if I thought I would really need a gun where we were going. My reply was that if I really thought I would need a gun there I wouldn't go. I guess on this day I would carry my Browning BDA .45 on my hip, and PM9 IWB and my CW380 in my front pocket. an extra mag for each would have to do as I would probably be walking in circles due to the extra weight.

[yqtszhj]

... In times of higher risk, I go the H&K P30SK or my CZ P01 .....

Those 2 made my list too. The P-01 is still in breakin phase and I'm thinking about adding Meprolights like the H&K came with. I like and carry the P30SK a lot and it can even drop in the pocket if necessity dictates but its usually appendix IWB. I swear for a 2 finger grip the custom panels make it feel like a full size gun.

Did you notice the follower in the H&K mags? As tall as it is I bet it could be "modified" to carry 2 more rounds but I'd need another follower to experiment.

[Bawanna]

I know this senerrio does not allow, but the answer is to not go. My GF and I were headed out one time and she asked me if I thought I would really need a gun where we were going. My reply was that if I really thought I would need a gun there I wouldn't go. I guess on this day I would carry my Browning BDA .45 on my hip, and PM9 IWB and my CW380 in my front pocket. an extra mag for each would have to do as I would probably be walking in circles due to the extra weight.

This right here for me. If it's a scary place I prefer to just stay home. Sometimes we have no choice. A hospital visit in downtown Seattle for example. Of course they frown on guns in hospitals and I'm not leaving mine in the vehicle down there so one has to use discretion. In that case I decided to carry a soft leather brief case. Worked well, I could put a thermos of coffee, some food etc. If the room became too warm and I had to remove vest or jacket I could slip the 1911 into the brief case and leave the PM45 on the ankle. Some days I just wore the PM45 on the hip, when I got inside I slipped it into the ankle holster and put the Garrett holster in the brief case.
I've actually softened considerable over the years. In my younger days I took my gun in the shower in two zip lock bags, now that I can't hear I figured it was moot since I'd never know the threat was coming. Why a couple weeks ago I mowed the lawn nekkid as a jay bird didn't even have a blade on me.
Should have grown wool and made a sweater, I was such a sheep waiting for slaughter.
Everyday is different, but everyday is also the same, bad things happen all over these days. I agree that as civilians we don't expect extended gun battles but I'm also a devout sheepdog, so as long as others are in danger weather I know them or not, I'll probably stay in it till they are no longer in danger or until the cops shoot me by mistake, that's actually the biggest danger for civilian sheepdogs.

[jeepster09]

Here I am when I go out....

[mark7mod0]

For me it would be my CZ P-07 with 2 extra mags. All loaded with Federal HST, 124 gr, 9 mm.

[ltxi]

Okay, Col...That there, In my younger days I took my gun in the shower in two zip lock bags....., is just seriously weird. Especially for us paranoids. What the hell good wud it do you? Ever try to draw from a zip lock bag??

Interesting you should bring up carry in a hospital. Unless I'm a patient, or even then dependings, I've never thought twice about doing that.

[thughes]

Exactly my thought Ken. Today could be the day. Create this scenario and all the mouse guns stay home, IWB or OWB is king and no mention of pocket carry.
Extra Hi Cap mags, large frame guns.

Why should any day be different.

Why should a quick trip to the convenience store be any different than a evening out.

I see what you did here......nice. Thanks for the thought-provoking kick in the ass, looks like a lot of us need to re-evaluate our EDC choices.

[Bawanna]

Okay, Col...That there, In my younger days I took my gun in the shower in two zip lock bags....., is just seriously weird. Especially for us paranoids. What the hell good wud it do you? Ever try to draw from a zip lock bag??

Interesting you should bring up carry in a hospital. Unless I'm a patient, or even then dependings, I've never thought twice about doing that.

Probably about as easy to draw as from a pocket I imagine. It was silly.
I never give much of a thought to carrying anywhere. Hospital, post office (never go there anyhow). To me every day is the same.

[AIRret]

Everyday is different, but everyday is also the same, bad things happen all over these days. I agree that as civilians we don't expect extended gun battles but I'm also a devout sheepdog, so as long as others are in danger weather I know them or not, I'll probably stay in it till they are no longer in danger or until the cops shoot me by mistake, that's actually the biggest danger for civilian sheepdogs.

Yup, bad things happen everywhere these days and I've never heard ANYONE complain about too much ammo/firepower in a gun fight!!

If I'm ever in your neighborhood and your mowing your lawn "naked as a jay bird"……LET me KNOW.

My battle gun is my CZ sp o1 tac. with two spare mags. and my Kahr pm9 in a flash bang holster or weak side pocket.
But in a pinch I really like my Springfield 45 5.2" barrel, 13 + 1 (I load one round down, the mag. changes work better) and extra mags.

With a heavy gun I wear suspenders under my cover garment.

Unfortunately, I've gotten a little lazy lately, I've even carried a glock 19 because it's lighter……so sad to get lazy!

And you are VERY right Bawanna, the armed citizen really is in a vulnerable situation in "many" gun fights!
The call goes out…..there's a man with a gun!!!! Sometimes it's tough for the cops to know who the bad guy is!!!

[JohnR]

My answer to the scenario right now is my 3" GP100 loaded with .357 Magnum. Two or three speed strips of additional ammo in my pocket.

Can I get some AR500 body armor locally?

[JohnR]

Case in point...

Our 1st grader has been bugging me to take her down to the river to see dolphins. They swim pretty far upriver and can be a pretty common sight.

So I took her to the Lion's Club boat ramp yesterday just before it got dark. It also started raining, so no dolphin sightings, but we did get to the boat ramp. On the way back, I had to stop for gas and the only station on the route was in a neighborhood that had really gone down hill since the last time I was around there, especially after dark. A guy was standing in the door of the small convenience store shouting something unintelligible to someone I couldn't see. Not sure if he was shouting at me or what. I ignored him and pumped my gas, ready to grab the gas nozzle and squirt 87 octane at anyone who gave me the stink eye. Hey, it's the weapon I had in my hand at the time...

So yes, you really never know when it's your time.

[Bawanna]

Everyday is different, but everyday is also the same, bad things happen all over these days. I agree that as civilians we don't expect extended gun battles but I'm also a devout sheepdog, so as long as others are in danger weather I know them or not, I'll probably stay in it till they are no longer in danger or until the cops shoot me by mistake, that's actually the biggest danger for civilian sheepdogs.

Yup, bad things happen everywhere these days and I've never heard ANYONE complain about too much ammo/firepower in a gun fight!!

If I'm ever in your neighborhood and your mowing your lawn "naked as a jay bird"……LET me KNOW.

My battle gun is my CZ sp o1 tac. with two spare mags. and my Kahr pm9 in a flash bang holster or weak side pocket.
But in a pinch I really like my Springfield 45 5.2" barrel, 13 + 1 (I load one round down, the mag. changes work better) and extra mags.

With a heavy gun I wear suspenders under my cover garment.

Unfortunately, I've gotten a little lazy lately, I've even carried a glock 19 because it's lighter……so sad to get lazy!

And you are VERY right Bawanna, the armed citizen really is in a vulnerable situation in "many" gun fights!
The call goes out…..there's a man with a gun!!!! Sometimes it's tough for the cops to know who the bad guy is!!!


You'll be the first person I call. Always wanted to check out those flash bangs but I get weird looks????

[yqtszhj]

You'll be the first person I call. Always wanted to check out those flash bangs but I get weird looks????

You'll really get some wierd looks if you're wearing one mowing your yard, maybe more than just being naked.... just sayin. :rolleyes:

Of course if you go down to Seattle it may just fit right in, thats what I hear from my relatives out there anyway.

I want to see the look on the bad persons face after they're looking down the barrel of a gun just pulled from a flash bang. I bet its priceless.

[Bawanna]

Seattle is a weird place and getting weirder everyday. Hope your relatives are outside the city someplace.
Our little town is scary enough, Seattle is a jungle.

[JethrosDad]

Okay, Col...That there, In my younger days I took my gun in the shower in two zip lock bags....., is just seriously weird. Especially for us paranoids. What the hell good wud it do you? Ever try to draw from a zip lock bag??

Interesting you should bring up carry in a hospital. Unless I'm a patient, or even then dependings, I've never thought twice about doing that.

LOL at gun in the shower in ziploc bags, that almost made me spit my coffee out.

I have the fortune/misfortune of working in a gun free zone aka hospital. I think that if I ran my own practice I would carry at work, hell maybe if I was even on regular medicine floors I might pocket one sometimes especially if I was in the ER, but alas I am a psychiatrist so guns are extremely forbidden on our unit and can be very dangerous if a patient were to get a hold of one. So the gun stays in the car at work.

[Bawanna]

Exactly my point, what if one of your nut cases gets somebody elses gun, knife, office chair. you baa like a sheep and let us read about you in the paper as a victim.
Glad you shared your profession, I'll try to refrain from my psychiatrist comments and focus on lawyers.

[yqtszhj]

Seattle is a weird place and getting weirder everyday. Hope your relatives are outside the city someplace.
Our little town is scary enough, Seattle is a jungle.

Yeah, good for them they live in Snoqualmie but they tell me there are some neighbors who must eat Fruit Loops for breakfast daily.

Back on gun topic, got the notice that the CZ 75 SP-01 I ordered is inbound. It may fit in our scenario role in the future. May decide to sell something to pay for it but all my low cap pistols that I dont shoot or carry have been sold so any sell may be regrettable. Darn CZ's are habit forming.

[JethrosDad]

Exactly my point, what if one of your nut cases gets somebody elses gun, knife, office chair. you baa like a sheep and let us read about you in the paper as a victim.
Glad you shared your profession, I'll try to refrain from my psychiatrist comments and focus on lawyers.Bawanna you can still make psychiatrist jokes, I have a thick skin. The funny thing is that most of the sterotypes are true. It is by far the most liberal medical specialty but I'm just crazy enough to get along with my patients.

Things on a psych unit are pretty tight. Even LEOs have to remove all their weapons before stepping inside the locked unit. The most dangerous object patients can get is a plastic fork. I've been hit a few times by some seriously ill people but I knew what I signed up for.

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[yqtszhj]

Bawanna you can still make psychiatrist jokes, I have a thick skin. The funny thing is that most of the sterotypes are true. It is by far the most liberal medical specialty but I'm just crazy enough to get along with my patients.

Things on a psych unit are pretty tight. Even LEOs have to remove all their weapons before stepping inside the locked unit. The most dangerous object patients can get is a plastic fork. I've been hit a few times by some seriously ill people but I knew what I signed up for.

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Its interesting what you just said about being hit and knowing what you signed up for. It just put in perspective what a guy who used to work for me told me about his dad. His dad spent time in the Marines, then when he got out he used his GI Bill to become a psychiatrist and works at the mental hospital. Guess he still can still use his military training at work at least defensively. I never thought about that before.

[Bawanna]

My thinking on folks is we're all crazy. Most of us walk the line and stay on the sane side but at any given moment could go nutso.

Right now the burr under my saddle is they recently made me wait for mental health check returns when I do back ground checks for gun transfers.
Before we had to request it but we could approve the transfer before we got the response. Makes sense since in 20 years I've never once received a disqualification due to mental health. The plan was if we ever did we'd deal with it after the fact.
Now instead of the local shops getting my go ahead in an hour or two, it's usually at least the full 5 days and DSHS says we often times will have to request extra time so they have time to do their check.

I put no credibility in them or their checks. The bigger the agency, they are state, the more important they think they are and can tell little old me what I have to do.
Sadly my leader doesn't believe in my policy to just say no and / or pound sand.

Here we go, 3 day weekend and I'm getting myself riled. Think I'll go lick a few windows and write a response to the little people.

[ltxi]

Everyday is different, but everyday is also the same, bad things happen all over these days. I agree that as civilians we don't expect extended gun battles but I'm also a devout sheepdog, so as long as others are in danger weather I know them or not, I'll probably stay in it till they are no longer in danger or until the cops shoot me by mistake, that's actually the biggest danger for civilian sheepdogs.

Yup, bad things happen everywhere these days and I've never heard ANYONE complain about too much ammo/firepower in a gun fight!!

If I'm ever in your neighborhood and your mowing your lawn "naked as a jay bird"……LET me KNOW.

My battle gun is my CZ sp o1 tac. with two spare mags. and my Kahr pm9 in a flash bang holster or weak side pocket.
But in a pinch I really like my Springfield 45 5.2" barrel, 13 + 1 (I load one round down, the mag. changes work better) and extra mags.

With a heavy gun I wear suspenders under my cover garment.

Unfortunately, I've gotten a little lazy lately, I've even carried a glock 19 because it's lighter……so sad to get lazy!

And you are VERY right Bawanna, the armed citizen really is in a vulnerable situation in "many" gun fights!
The call goes out…..there's a man with a gun!!!! Sometimes it's tough for the cops to know who the bad guy is!!!


I wouldn't get too excited about it. Ain't nothin' much special.

[AIRret]

I wouldn't get too excited about it. Ain't nothin' much special.

So YOU'VE been around Bawanna when he's in the "all together" i.e naked as a jay bird?!?!?!?!?!?!

[AIRret]

Yeah, good for them they live in Snoqualmie but they tell me there are some neighbors who must eat Fruit Loops for breakfast daily.

Back on gun topic, got the notice that the CZ 75 SP-01 I ordered is inbound. It may fit in our scenario role in the future. May decide to sell something to pay for it but all my low cap pistols that I dont shoot or carry have been sold so any sell may be regrettable. Darn CZ's are habit forming.

I'd be shocked if you don't LOVE your CZ 75 SP 01 tac. If you want any ideas about some upgrades I have some suggestions and I'm sure there are other folks here that can chime in with some good ideas.
ENJOY!

[ltxi]

So YOU'VE been around Bawanna when he's in the "all together" i.e naked as a jay bird?!?!?!?!?!?!

Nah...I just know 'cause of somethin' my wife told me once. "Oh, just stop acting all full of yourself! You've seen one naked Colonel, you've pretty much seen 'em all."

That and the pics on the internet.

[O'Dell]

Easy answer to a difficult question. If I have to draw from my stock an HK 45c and an HK Compact USP 45 with a couple of extra mags for each.