Training drill/aids for shooting better?

[rumblemonkey]

Hello, after taking my PM40 to the range for break in, (and shooting like a spaz) I wondered if there are any ideas on training drills or aids for the .40? I see the Laserlytes and other laser type devices for showing a flinch, but what about other drills? I do not want to be reinforcing bad habits! No rails to mount devices on-I have shifted to 2 eyes open, and am going to practice practice practice smooth trigger pull, maybe balancing a coin on the front sights. Any hot tips on other drills? Is dry firing OK? Does anyone have laser type things they are selling? THANKS!

[jg rider]

What are you trying to do, shoot more accurately at paper targets or shoot defensively ? We shoot for fun, competitively, and more importantly for self defense. Paper punching is boring to us.
We practice on human shaped card board IPSC targets but with a twist. We shape the targets into a curved shape. Think about this, a body isn't a flat surface. It's 3 dimensional.

We shoot straight on or at an angle into the curved target. The objective is hit the spinal column.

Hits out of center straight on will probably not hit any vitals on a flat target. Or center hits from an angle will also miss vitals.

A drill my wife does is to stand arms length in front of the target. At a signal she does a palm strike to the face or punch to the throat, moves quickly backwards while drawing and shooting into the target. She'll do this going straight back. And then going to her left and her right aiming at the sides of the target. She does this with her K9, & PM9. There's a video somewhere around here showing her doing this.

Our biggest fear is hitting an innocent bystander. So all hits are always on target.

The curved target isn't our idea. I shoot with some sheriff's deputies on there own time and this what they do.

I hope I didn't offend anyone's sensibilities

[b4uqzme]

^^^ that looks cool.

Dry firing is fine. I did lots of it myself. Pick a spot on the wall and concentrate on completing the trigger pull without moving the muzzle.

You mentioned flinch and that reminded me of a Jocko training method: have a buddy load a couple mags for you. Have him put a snap cap or two in at random. That snap cap will reveal any flinch.

[berettabone]

I would try to find someone with more shooting experience to shoot with. They can watch you and tell you what you are/aren't doing. .40 cal isn't the easiest to shoot. It takes lots of practice and the right technique for you. Sight pictures, hand holds, grip, trigger, they are all important. The only way to get rid of flinch is to shoot a lot. Eventually, your brain will tell you that nothing bad is going to happen, and it usually will stop. I find that if I concentrate on trigger pull, stance, and grip, the flinching will go away. The accuracy will come in time. I don't flinch, but back in the day, I sometimes would. What I did was load up the first magazine of the day, and rip off the whole mag fast. After that, no more flinch that day. It may not work for everyone, but worked for me.

[340pd]

All of the above are good suggestions. I have a number of revolvers with Crimson Trace Lasergrips. I practice dry firing at a small 1" dot from about 30'. If you learn to control the trigger of a DA revolver you should be good with just about any other trigger system especially Kahr's which very closely resemble a DA revolver action.

[RustyIron]

am going to practice practice practice smooth trigger pull, maybe balancing a coin on the front sights.

Dry firing in the comfort of your own home. Choose your target, aim, squeeze the trigger, click, maintain your aim. Did your sight picture move? Yes? Well then you need to do better. Did it remain perfectly still? Then you're more awesome than me. Congratulations.

[b4uqzme]

I was at an indoor range and I ran out of targets. All I had left were two one inchers. I was shooting an MK9. The youngsters in the stall to the left laughed when they saw me run them out. So I bet them I could hit both bullseyes in just two shots. I didn’t make them pay up. ;) Dry firing works. Just do a lot of it.

[Barth]

As others have said, there are lots of different types of shooting.
And as the old adage goes; practice, practice, practice and then practice some more :D
If you are interested in concealed carry/defensive shooting?
Consider getting a flash sight picture (front sight only) and quickly get multiple hits center mass at close range.

Getting a perfect sight picture, being in a perfect stance, exhaling and squeezing the trigger
is great for slow fire bullseye punching.
But IMHO not realistic self defense training.

Good Luck and enjoy your Kahr!

Oh, BTW, I've got a MK40 Elite and the gun loves (groups best) with 180 gr sub-sonic rounds.
Also, I find 180 gr tends to have less felt recoil and faster follow up shots.
Personally running Federal HST for self defense :cool:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#40SW

[Poseidon]

I was at an indoor range and I ran out of targets. All I had left were two one inchers. I was shooting an MK9. The youngsters in the stall to the left laughed when they saw me run them out. So I bet them I could hit both bullseyes in just two shots. I didn’t make them pay up. ;) Dry firing works. Just do a lot of it.

Why would you bet someone at a public indoor range that you can hit target(s)?

[Bawanna]

Why not?

[Planedude]

Agreed, Why not? Showing a snickering youngster that the old guy can still shoot is a life lesson to them. I was once shooting my S&W on an indoor range when the youngster two lanes over (just me and him there that morning) said "you cant hit anything with a 642 S&W fast enough to save yourself". I smiled and asked him to put down his wonder nine and come watch. I ran a fresh target out seven yards, put my 642 loaded the 130grn Winchester white box back into its pocket holster and that combo back into my right front pocket. I told him to get a good view of the target, I put my right hand on the lane shelf in front of me and said "call it". He left a long pause, maybe to unnerve me, but finally said "GO"! With a practiced, quick, but not lightning fast draw, I put two shots center and one in the teeth of the "bad guy" target. The young man Gave me kudos and we talked about all the factors that led me to be carrying the 642 a lot. I believe the young man learned that with a change in the grips, a Wilson combat spring kit with and a sensible ammo choice (standard pressure 125grn XTP's) the little J frame was a viable SD weapon. He also admitted that his Glock (too) often stayed at home in the safe because it was too bulky to carry everywhere. I let him shoot five or six cylinders full of the WW and he was happy to be hitting pretty good by the end. He also insisted I shoot his Glock (meh!) and we discussed holster options for it (he had one of those cheapie plastic paddle holsters) so that it might go with him more. So I made a new friend and taught a youngster (maybe 27/30... youngster to me) that he could think outside the "Guns and Ammo" box about his SD choices and I had a good time doing it.
Enjoy the range and when you can, the people around you too.

Peace

[berettabone]

I have seen people walking around like a chicken going Glock, Glock, Glock............................................. ........

[Bawanna]

What might be even better that demonstrating that old guys still got it is making a suggestion that will help improve another shooter young or old.
I had a couple fella's not young but younger than me that were in the next lane. They were using the old cup and saucer grip technique and were hitting good for windage but vertical stringing. After politely asking if they were open to a suggestion I showed them the newer suggested grip.

In short order both had virtually eliminated the vertical stringing and were doing decent groups.

But my all time favorite thing at a range is when some young dudes come in with their girlfriends or wives and they are shooting and the girls are standing at the back wall. Not for long when I'm around. I'll go ask why they aren't shooting. Usually it's they say the guns are too much for me or they haven't offered.
I fail once in awhile but usually they follow me down to my lane usually accompanied by quizzical looks from their boyfriends. I always keep a loaded holstered gun on my hip at all times at the range. If I'm shooting the carry gun, I'll load another and switch before I shoot. Never caught with my pants down nekkid ya know?

I always bring a 22 along even if I'm not gonna shoot it. Usually my Smith 41. They always enjoy it and I've gotten lots of hugs and even a few smacks right on the smackers, no smacks from the boys yet although a few usually come down and want to look at my toys. I usually let them shoot them too long as they don't try to kiss me right on the smackers.

Embarrasses the heck out of my kids when I offer help to those obviously needing help and especially when I go get the girls. Guess it's a curse.

[berettabone]

A friend of mine has a lot of shoots on his property up nort during the nice weather months. Mostly .22 rifles, but everybody brings handguns to the party.We always do/try to get the wives/women involved. Over the years, we've gotten many of the women to take an interest, be it smaller than ours, and they've turned out to be good shooters. These experiences helped my wife become a confident carrier herself. We always try to get women, and kids involved in the activity. A safe bunch we are...........................................we are always willing to give our experiences to them, and any help.

[OldLincoln]

When I was actively shooting and studying all I could, I found a fixed laser just didn't work for me. I bought a laser cartridge that fired when the striker hit the base for 3ms, just long enough to see the shot without after shot wiggle. That improved my range shoot by a great deal. Don't recall the maker but they were worth the cost.

[rumblemonkey]

Thanks to all for the input and ideas! I was really just putting the break in rounds thru, and overlooked the getting the smoothness and accuracy fine tuned. I will be drilling with dry fire and the laser capsule described in the last post. I added bright orange color to the front sight too, my vision and focus has changed. I may try using both eyes too, how many of you use this? I have contacted and old expert shooting friend to see about help too. I like the 3D target idea too, I work in a busy inter city trauma OR, and you would not believe how many patients come thru with multiple gunshots, (Chest and abdomen) and somehow they live! Some even do not require surgery! Making shots count is an important aspect. Thanks to all, thanks for this forum!

[Ed M]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASpgLFP_gUY

[rumblemonkey]

Thanks to all for the suggestions, JG, the red box in your targets looks right of center-left would be the heart, and I am uncertain of the idea "
Hits out of center straight on will probably not hit any vitals on a flat target. Or center hits from an angle will also miss vitals.", (even though some are hit, they survive)-plenty of show stoppers off center, specifically leftish! In spearfishing shots to the spine are the general idea for smaller fish. I like the curved target too! Anyone have a favorite laser trainer? Thanks again! Off to the range-

[rumblemonkey]

Need more posts, but I may start with a smaller cal handgun and move up to the .40

[Ken L]

Need more posts, but I may start with a smaller cal handgun and move up to the .40

One other thing to consider when shooting your .40. Squeeze it with a death grip. That's what I do with my CW40, and it turns out very nice groups when I hold it like that. It also makes the recoil much more manageable, and helps with follow up shots. Helps eliminate flinching too. These small pistols, especially those with the "snap" that a .40 has, are not forgiving of a less than perfect grip. You should practice the squeeze when you're dry firing too. The bonus of the tight grip is that it will help when you shoot every other pistol that you own.

[jg rider]

Thanks to all for the suggestions, JG, the red box in your targets looks right of center-left would be the heart, and I am uncertain of the idea "
Hits out of center straight on will probably not hit any vitals on a flat target. Or center hits from an angle will also miss vitals.
", (even though some are hit, they survive)-plenty of show stoppers off center, specifically leftish! In spearfishing shots to the spine are the general idea for smaller fish. I like the curved target too! Anyone have a favorite laser trainer? Thanks again! Off to the range-

Hello again,
I see what you mean about the box looking out of center. It should look in center. The objective is to aim toward back bone / spinal column / heart from an angle. When shooting straight on we practice for hits in the area that looks like triangle from the thorax down to just below the breast.

Yea right! With the adrenaline flowing who knows what would happen

[jg rider]

Need more posts, but I may start with a smaller cal handgun and move up to the .40


One other thing to consider when shooting your .40. Squeeze it with a death grip. That's what I do with my CW40, and it turns out very nice groups when I hold it like that. It also makes the recoil much more manageable, and helps with follow up shots. Helps eliminate flinching too. These small pistols, especially those with the "snap" that a .40 has, are not forgiving of a less than perfect grip. You should practice the squeeze when you're dry firing too. The bonus of the tight grip is that it will help when you shoot every other pistol that you own.

There's been so many gripping techniques and stances.
Old isosceles stance with bent knees
Weaver stance facing away of the target and aiming the gun like you would a rifle. And push pulling the hands around the grip
Modified isosceles which is our choice

My take on grip is we've gone from a push with strong hand while pulling with the weak hand of old to a holding the gun in the strong hand lightly only as a support while the weak hand wraps around everything in a strong grip. This prevents shaking. Also we don't hold our arms locked straight out and stiff. We leave a slight bend at the elbows so the arms act as shock absorbers.

As far as .40's I have no use for them I'd go with a .45. I prefer 9mm's over all in a small pistol. For us it's all about fast recovery for follow up shots. Not the sharp snap recoil and muzzle flip of a .40. I shot enough matches trying a .40 and a .45. My times and hits were faster with the softer push of a .45

Around here I know of some police departments and Sheriff's Offices doing away with the .40s. Going only to 9mm and .45s

[rumblemonkey]

Wow, cool info-thanks! I am going tom shoot the He## out of the 40 before I decide. Again, thanks!

[340pd]

The best tool I give my students is a SIRT training pistol (https://nextleveltraining.com/product/sirt-110-training-pistol-2/). I have an early model in the Glock configuration (only model available at the time) and it allows one to quickly understand the concept of proper trigger control and makes it easy and safe to practice drawing, reloading (weighted magazine included) and firing. No need for the fancy models. Just projecting a laser beam at trigger pull will get the job done. Pricey for some but I feel they are really worth the money in the long run. Now available in Glock, M&P, and they have a pocket pistol model that looks very interesting.

[rumblemonkey]

Thanks for the info on the SIRT training pistol, but too pricy for me at this time! Very nice to have one to give your students! Maybe I can rent one for a while! Good info-I will ask at some of our ranges to see if anyone has one of these.

[jg rider]

We're blessed with having a home range. So we have lots of family get togethers with 3 grand daughters and a bunch of great grand children.

Here's some vids if you're interested

10 yr. old Grand Daughter practicing competition protocol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WByCoFnaLfM

Wife practicing for Steel Challenge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbfK2MbdQHo

Me having a bad day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5D328RY6s

Grand Daughter shooting a K9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwpCLo63R9s

Wife shooting her PM9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVN87wPtDkU

Son shooting his PM9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpNeL22OaE

Me shooting my PM9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsVU2uDR0to

Wife retreating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPvIwxwD_RE

55 yd. Shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoqXQ24bNT8